Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

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Foreman44
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by Foreman44 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:22 pm
VikingsFan84 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:50 pm

New head coach, new scheme, and #31 ranked defense that needs to be fixed
Crazy how the Vikings won half their games last year (game without Cousins doesn't count) with the 31st ranked D.
Hunter plays and the defense is already fixed. Z plays also that 31st ranked D is top 10. Most people think new HC and scheme is a good thing.
Our defense should be better with Hunter and Smith alone
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

Foreman44 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:26 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:22 pm
Crazy how the Vikings won half their games last year (game without Cousins doesn't count) with the 31st ranked D.
Hunter plays and the defense is already fixed. Z plays also that 31st ranked D is top 10. Most people think new HC and scheme is a good thing.
Our defense should be better with Hunter and Smith alone
Top 8 in scoring with Hunter and Griffen through the first 7 games of the season last year so a definite possibility. Anything less, assuming everyone is healthy, would probably be a big disappointment.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by Texas Vike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:36 pm
Texas Vike wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:17 pm I like our chances, honestly.

I'm most worried about Bradbury taking on Kenny Clark. I would be nervous about our secondary taking on Rodgers, but GB's WRs are not likely up to snuff with him yet. It wouldn't totally shock me to see Lazard and Cobb step up, but I have relative confidence in our edge rush getting pressure on Rodgers. I'm a bit worried about our run D too. GB has two solid RBs.

On offense, I can't wait to see what KOC brings. The pack has a strong D, so this isn't an easy assignment first week. But I have a good feeling.
Oh, but aren't you worried about Romeo Doubs? He's been the sensation of preseason. The Kyle Sloter of wide receivers. :roll:
I think every football fan is eager to watch the Pack to see what in the world will happen at WR for them. They lost Adams and Valdes-Scantling and picked up Sammy Watkins and a couple of rookies? I mean, Rodgers can make mediocre WRs prosper, but this year they are REALLY playing with fire. I personally think they take a major step back on O. Their D is solid though. This might be a lower scoring game than most expect. I have heard the chatter about Doubs (mostly because I got pulled into a Fantasy league for the first time in 30 years! back when I played and was commish, we did the scoring ourselves with the Monday morning paper box scores). I have no idea what to expect from Doubs or any of them. I did take a flyer on Watson in the last round, just based on the dearth of talent in their WR corps, his athletic profile, and Rodgers tendency to make a turd shine.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by IIsweet »

Foreman44 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:26 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:22 pm
Crazy how the Vikings won half their games last year (game without Cousins doesn't count) with the 31st ranked D.
Hunter plays and the defense is already fixed. Z plays also that 31st ranked D is top 10. Most people think new HC and scheme is a good thing.
Our defense should be better with Hunter and Smith alone
I get it but I don't. Hunter and Z are great at rushing the passer, but we run a 3-4.
The down lineman are Bullard, Tomlinson, and Phillips. Is everyone expecting us to also rush Hunter and Z on every down as well?
Basically running a 50 D. I am unsure about Hunter's ability to drop into coverage and cover a flat or TE.
I am very excited about the transition to a new defense, but I just see teams running plays to take advantage of this.
I hope that I am wrong and that Donatell and co. have it all ready to go. On paper, it is very exciting.
I do believe that we finish a lot higher than 31st ranked defense.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

IIsweet wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:12 am
Foreman44 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:26 am

Our defense should be better with Hunter and Smith alone
I get it but I don't. Hunter and Z are great at rushing the passer, but we run a 3-4.
The down lineman are Bullard, Tomlinson, and Phillips. Is everyone expecting us to also rush Hunter and Z on every down as well?
Basically running a 50 D. I am unsure about Hunter's ability to drop into coverage and cover a flat or TE.
I am very excited about the transition to a new defense, but I just see teams running plays to take advantage of this.
I hope that I am wrong and that Donatell and co. have it all ready to go. On paper, it is very exciting.
I do believe that we finish a lot higher than 31st ranked defense.
I just can't imagine any coaching staff looking at the strength of the defense (Hunter) and making a decision to go to a 3-4 if it made that strength a liability. Premier pass rushing DEs are more rare than premier QBs and changing to a scheme that takes away from one of those rare edge rushers would be like an offense with Lamar Jackson switching to one that removes any run option or straight run plays for the QB.

I believe the coaching staff has some sense and did not make this switch without knowing that Hunter would still be successful.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by IIsweet »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:51 am
IIsweet wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:12 am

I get it but I don't. Hunter and Z are great at rushing the passer, but we run a 3-4.
The down lineman are Bullard, Tomlinson, and Phillips. Is everyone expecting us to also rush Hunter and Z on every down as well?
Basically running a 50 D. I am unsure about Hunter's ability to drop into coverage and cover a flat or TE.
I am very excited about the transition to a new defense, but I just see teams running plays to take advantage of this.
I hope that I am wrong and that Donatell and co. have it all ready to go. On paper, it is very exciting.
I do believe that we finish a lot higher than 31st ranked defense.
I just can't imagine any coaching staff looking at the strength of the defense (Hunter) and making a decision to go to a 3-4 if it made that strength a liability. Premier pass rushing DEs are more rare than premier QBs and changing to a scheme that takes away from one of those rare edge rushers would be like an offense with Lamar Jackson switching to one that removes any run option or straight run plays for the QB.

I believe the coaching staff has some sense and did not make this switch without knowing that Hunter would still be successful.
I agree with you Stump, but I have some doubt. I am expecting some type of hybrid with their personnel. I too would be building around my elite personnel. I am very excited but I do have some reservation. Hoping for a fast explosive defense wreaking havoc
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Foreman44 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:24 am
VikingsFan84 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:50 pm

New head coach, new scheme, and #31 ranked defense that needs to be fixed
We will score points. That will not be the problem.

But will our d limit the teams. Scoring 35 a game isn’t good if your D is giving up 40
I'll happily take us scoring 35 a game and trust that the D will not give up 40.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Texas Vike wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:08 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:36 pm
Oh, but aren't you worried about Romeo Doubs? He's been the sensation of preseason. The Kyle Sloter of wide receivers. :roll:
I think every football fan is eager to watch the Pack to see what in the world will happen at WR for them. They lost Adams and Valdes-Scantling and picked up Sammy Watkins and a couple of rookies? I mean, Rodgers can make mediocre WRs prosper, but this year they are REALLY playing with fire. I personally think they take a major step back on O. Their D is solid though. This might be a lower scoring game than most expect. I have heard the chatter about Doubs (mostly because I got pulled into a Fantasy league for the first time in 30 years! back when I played and was commish, we did the scoring ourselves with the Monday morning paper box scores). I have no idea what to expect from Doubs or any of them. I did take a flyer on Watson in the last round, just based on the dearth of talent in their WR corps, his athletic profile, and Rodgers tendency to make a turd shine.
OMG. That's how it was done when I first played too. Drafts were done with people you actually know in person. You drank and talked a lot of trash. Points were only awarded for actual scoring except QBs got 3 for throwing a TD pass. No yardage.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by VikingsVictorious »

IIsweet wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:56 am
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:51 am

I just can't imagine any coaching staff looking at the strength of the defense (Hunter) and making a decision to go to a 3-4 if it made that strength a liability. Premier pass rushing DEs are more rare than premier QBs and changing to a scheme that takes away from one of those rare edge rushers would be like an offense with Lamar Jackson switching to one that removes any run option or straight run plays for the QB.

I believe the coaching staff has some sense and did not make this switch without knowing that Hunter would still be successful.
I agree with you Stump, but I have some doubt. I am expecting some type of hybrid with their personnel. I too would be building around my elite personnel. I am very excited but I do have some reservation. Hoping for a fast explosive defense wreaking havoc
I too agree with Stump. :shock: :rock: :govikes:
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by fiestavike »

Vikings were near the bottom of the league in 3rd down conversions last year, and tied for dead last in number of 3 and outs. Combine this with DVOA and you can see the defense was better than its rank based on points or yards given up. Team sport guys. the offense screwed the pooch pretty regularly last year. The fact that they 'scored points' is nice, but there's more to the game that caveman style statistical analysis or yards and points.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

fiestavike wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:04 am Vikings were near the bottom of the league in 3rd down conversions last year, and tied for dead last in number of 3 and outs. Combine this with DVOA and you can see the defense was better than its rank based on points or yards given up. Team sport guys. the offense screwed the pooch pretty regularly last year. The fact that they 'scored points' is nice, but there's more to the game that caveman style statistical analysis or yards and points.
This is why context is important and honestly it should give Vikings' fans hope. Not sure why people want to argue with me on this since it is a positive thing about the team.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

It’s extremely hard for me to see any positives about the Vikings’ defense last year.

— They were terrible against the run, giving up 138 YPG.
— They had two games — TWO — where they didn’t give up points in the last two minutes of the 1st half or game.
— In addition to all the points given up in the last two minutes, they gave up even more points if you expand it to four minutes, including 3 additional TDs with between 2 and 3 minutes to play.
— They were 27th in yards per play allowed.
— 30th in first downs allowed.
— 23rd in YAC allowed.
— 22nd in percentage of drives allowed ending in a score.

And the eye test … we looked lost at times.

I know, these aren’t “advanced stats.” But if anybody watched this team last year and thought the defense was anything other than terrible, then I would suggest wearing clear glasses instead of purple.

Change was desperately needed. Let’s hope the changes produce results.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by fiestavike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:11 pm It’s extremely hard for me to see any positives about the Vikings’ defense last year.

— They were terrible against the run, giving up 138 YPG.
— They had two games — TWO — where they didn’t give up points in the last two minutes of the 1st half or game.
— In addition to all the points given up in the last two minutes, they gave up even more points if you expand it to four minutes, including 3 additional TDs with between 2 and 3 minutes to play.
— They were 27th in yards per play allowed.
— 30th in first downs allowed.
— 23rd in YAC allowed.
— 22nd in percentage of drives allowed ending in a score.

And the eye test … we looked lost at times.

I know, these aren’t “advanced stats.” But if anybody watched this team last year and thought the defense was anything other than terrible, then I would suggest wearing clear glasses instead of purple.

Change was desperately needed. Let’s hope the changes produce results.
The defense certainly wasn't good, but the offense wasn't good either in a lot of critical ways. Those offensive shortcoming highlighted and amplified the defensive shortcomings. The vikings were a slightly worse than average defense last year. The team was a deeply flawed team. Their crunch time defense was awful, no doubt, but opposing offenses would have had fewer chances to score (and to score late) if the Vikings offense had been able to convert 3rd downs and avoid 3 and outs at anything close to league average.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:11 pm It’s extremely hard for me to see any positives about the Vikings’ defense last year.

— They were terrible against the run, giving up 138 YPG.
— They had two games — TWO — where they didn’t give up points in the last two minutes of the 1st half or game.
— In addition to all the points given up in the last two minutes, they gave up even more points if you expand it to four minutes, including 3 additional TDs with between 2 and 3 minutes to play.
— They were 27th in yards per play allowed.
— 30th in first downs allowed.
— 23rd in YAC allowed.
— 22nd in percentage of drives allowed ending in a score.

And the eye test … we looked lost at times.

I know, these aren’t “advanced stats.” But if anybody watched this team last year and thought the defense was anything other than terrible, then I would suggest wearing clear glasses instead of purple.

Change was desperately needed. Let’s hope the changes produce results.
Scoring is not an advanced stat, it is the thing that wins football games, and from a scoring standpoint, the Vikings were as good as the Packers at stopping the other team from scoring. They just had to defend 22 more drive (about TWO GAMES worth) because the offense wasn't very good at picking up 1st downs.

That means if the Vikings had had an offense as good at maintaining drives as the Packers, they would have been a top 14 PPG scoring defense like the Packers. Probably better since having to defend so many extra drives tends to lead to defenses getting worn down and giving up a lot of points at the end of games, or halves.

That isn't advanced stats, that is simple math.

The D has got to improve, and it will with the talent added, but it does not have as far to go as people like to pretend.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by Foreman44 »

StumpHunter wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:58 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:11 pm It’s extremely hard for me to see any positives about the Vikings’ defense last year.

— They were terrible against the run, giving up 138 YPG.
— They had two games — TWO — where they didn’t give up points in the last two minutes of the 1st half or game.
— In addition to all the points given up in the last two minutes, they gave up even more points if you expand it to four minutes, including 3 additional TDs with between 2 and 3 minutes to play.
— They were 27th in yards per play allowed.
— 30th in first downs allowed.
— 23rd in YAC allowed.
— 22nd in percentage of drives allowed ending in a score.

And the eye test … we looked lost at times.

I know, these aren’t “advanced stats.” But if anybody watched this team last year and thought the defense was anything other than terrible, then I would suggest wearing clear glasses instead of purple.

Change was desperately needed. Let’s hope the changes produce results.
Scoring is not an advanced stat, it is the thing that wins football games, and from a scoring standpoint, the Vikings were as good as the Packers at stopping the other team from scoring. They just had to defend 22 more drive (about TWO GAMES worth) because the offense wasn't very good at picking up 1st downs.

That means if the Vikings had had an offense as good at maintaining drives as the Packers, they would have been a top 14 PPG scoring defense like the Packers. Probably better since having to defend so many extra drives tends to lead to defenses getting worn down and giving up a lot of points at the end of games, or halves.

That isn't advanced stats, that is simple math.

The D has got to improve, and it will with the talent added, but it does not have as far to go as people like to pretend.
Maybe much speculation.

How much discontent between Zimmer and players last year. Did that effect there play in any way. Was Zimmer even himself as a coach. Zimmer knew his job was on the line. It was win or he loses his job. Sounds like it showed with some players speaking up....Unhappy coach, unhappy players. Did it effect the team. I bet it did.

Good riddance Zimmer..

With what I hear today, sounds like team attitude is much better.

Time will tell if it makes any difference.