Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:20 pm
All I was saying is that we practically replaced Watts and ISM with their equivalents that have more upside. You acted like we traded our two best players away. You claim I’m attacking you when you’re the one saying I like to “tote the party line and use emotion towards what this regime does”. But I’m attacking you? Ok :roll: I guess I’ll grow up
Why do you think they have more upside? Based on their draft position? That is irrelevant now that both have played terribly for 2 straight seasons in the NFL. Watts could be the product of Zimmer scheming pressures for his interior lineman similar to what happened with Tom Johnson, but ISM was and probably always will be a better WR than Reagor. He is certainly a better WR than Nailer who was kept over him.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

Post by vikeinmontana »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:49 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:20 pm
All I was saying is that we practically replaced Watts and ISM with their equivalents that have more upside. You acted like we traded our two best players away. You claim I’m attacking you when you’re the one saying I like to “tote the party line and use emotion towards what this regime does”. But I’m attacking you? Ok :roll: I guess I’ll grow up
Why do you think they have more upside? Based on their draft position? That is irrelevant now that both have played terribly for 2 straight seasons in the NFL. Watts could be the product of Zimmer scheming pressures for his interior lineman similar to what happened with Tom Johnson, but ISM was and probably always will be a better WR than Reagor. He is certainly a better WR than Nailer who was kept over him.
So the only conclusion then is the coaches don't know what they are doing. Or certainly don't know as much as fans on a message board.

Or.....they are simply trying to get rid of better players to keep worse players. Seems odd as their livelihoods are totally dependant on these decisions. But these are the only choices, given it is so obvious the players brought in are so much worse than the ones we let go.

I must be crazy for trusting the guys who are with these players damn near 24-7 for the last several months and even going back to last season. I think I'm going to do a 180 and just only start getting my information in this VMB and trusting the posters here 100%. :banana:
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

Post by VikingsVictorious »

vikeinmontana wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:21 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:49 am

Why do you think they have more upside? Based on their draft position? That is irrelevant now that both have played terribly for 2 straight seasons in the NFL. Watts could be the product of Zimmer scheming pressures for his interior lineman similar to what happened with Tom Johnson, but ISM was and probably always will be a better WR than Reagor. He is certainly a better WR than Nailer who was kept over him.
So the only conclusion then is the coaches don't know what they are doing. Or certainly don't know as much as fans on a message board.

Or.....they are simply trying to get rid of better players to keep worse players. Seems odd as their livelihoods are totally dependant on these decisions. But these are the only choices, given it is so obvious the players brought in are so much worse than the ones we let go.

I must be crazy for trusting the guys who are with these players damn near 24-7 for the last several months and even going back to last season. I think I'm going to do a 180 and just only start getting my information in this VMB and trusting the posters here 100%. :banana:
There's no question at all about which WR has greater upside. Reagor has crazy upside. A rough start to his NFL career with a running QB who is way below average throwing the ball has limited him. Moving to a team with one of the best QBs at throwing the ball could totally turn his early career around. It does seem strange the Vikings chose to keep Nailor over ISM.
Greater upside between Watts and Blacklock is debatable, but there was a reason Blacklock was rated so far above Watts entering the league. That one is up in the air as to greater upside. Hopefully our coaches and GM know what they're doing.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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vikeinmontana wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:21 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:49 am

Why do you think they have more upside? Based on their draft position? That is irrelevant now that both have played terribly for 2 straight seasons in the NFL. Watts could be the product of Zimmer scheming pressures for his interior lineman similar to what happened with Tom Johnson, but ISM was and probably always will be a better WR than Reagor. He is certainly a better WR than Nailer who was kept over him.
So the only conclusion then is the coaches don't know what they are doing.
You mean like the coaches of Blacklock and Reagor?

Also, where was this opinion when you were complaining about Zimmer not playing guys like Wyatt Davis last year?

Seems like you aren't very consistent in when you think coaches know what they are doing "fans on message boards" and when they don't.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:53 am
vikeinmontana wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:21 am

So the only conclusion then is the coaches don't know what they are doing. Or certainly don't know as much as fans on a message board.

Or.....they are simply trying to get rid of better players to keep worse players. Seems odd as their livelihoods are totally dependant on these decisions. But these are the only choices, given it is so obvious the players brought in are so much worse than the ones we let go.

I must be crazy for trusting the guys who are with these players damn near 24-7 for the last several months and even going back to last season. I think I'm going to do a 180 and just only start getting my information in this VMB and trusting the posters here 100%. :banana:
There's no question at all about which WR has greater upside. Reagor has crazy upside. A rough start to his NFL career with a running QB who is way below average throwing the ball has limited him. Moving to a team with one of the best QBs at throwing the ball could totally turn his early career around. It does seem strange the Vikings chose to keep Nailor over ISM.
Greater upside between Watts and Blacklock is up in the air, but there was a reason Blacklock was rated so far above Watts entering the league. That one is up in the air as to greater upside. Hopefully our coaches and GM know what they're doing.
After 2 years in the NFL draft position means nothing. What have these guys done in the pros that proves either one has "crazy" upside?
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

Post by vikeinmontana »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:13 am
vikeinmontana wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:21 am

So the only conclusion then is the coaches don't know what they are doing.
You mean like the coaches of Blacklock and Reagor?

Also, where was this opinion when you were complaining about Zimmer not playing guys like Wyatt Davis last year?

Seems like you aren't very consistent in when you think coaches know what they are doing "fans on message boards" and when they don't.
Don't think the name Wyatt Davis has ever left my lips. Or reached my keyboard. Might be thinking of someone else there.

I feel like I'm always consistent in regards to coaches and players. I always think they always know more about their players then fans do. Doesn't mean I always agree with everything they do or that I feel they are always right. :confused:
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:53 am
vikeinmontana wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:21 am

So the only conclusion then is the coaches don't know what they are doing. Or certainly don't know as much as fans on a message board.

Or.....they are simply trying to get rid of better players to keep worse players. Seems odd as their livelihoods are totally dependant on these decisions. But these are the only choices, given it is so obvious the players brought in are so much worse than the ones we let go.

I must be crazy for trusting the guys who are with these players damn near 24-7 for the last several months and even going back to last season. I think I'm going to do a 180 and just only start getting my information in this VMB and trusting the posters here 100%. :banana:
There's no question at all about which WR has greater upside. Reagor has crazy upside. A rough start to his NFL career with a running QB who is way below average throwing the ball has limited him. Moving to a team with one of the best QBs at throwing the ball could totally turn his early career around. It does seem strange the Vikings chose to keep Nailor over ISM.
Greater upside between Watts and Blacklock is up in the air, but there was a reason Blacklock was rated so far above Watts entering the league. That one is up in the air as to greater upside. Hopefully our coaches and GM know what they're doing.
They kept Nailor because it was there pick. If Speilman was still here Wyatt Davis and Mond and the rest of the 3rd round stiffs would still be hanging around doing nothing but keeping the bench warm. Nailor has potential. He's a rookie next year is key. If ISM could catch a punt he'd still be here. Catching it is a must have. The rest is a nice to have. Reagor is an enigma. Everything about him has a 180 to it. I've read he has good hands and then other say too many drops. I read elite speed but he didn't run elite at the combine. I read game breaker but then he tends to head for the sideline instead of trying to shoot/split gaps. I just hope for now he can field punts cleanly. Muffed punts are back breakers.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:41 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:28 pm

I mean hey, you even said it, Cousins had a pretty bad coach when it came to his side of the ball. You wanted Zim gone two years in.

The scenarios aren’t even comparable to be honest. You had Stafford come from a crappy team to a team led by Sean McVay (arguably the most innovative and highest regarded offensive mind in the entire league) and then you had cousins coming from a crappy team who's OC was the above mentioned Sean McVay and landing with Mike Zimmer (arguably the least innovative and lowest regarded offensive mind in the league) who managed to win 13 games and get to the NFCCG with a backup QB the year before.

There was no doubt this Vikings team was well behind the times offensively under Mike Zimmer. Yet you’re comparing that to a guy that literally eats, sleeps and breaths offense in Sean McVay. Those two from an offensive standpoint, couldn’t be further apart. LITERALLY couldn’t be further apart
Filled in some missing info for you in your post. Who goes around derailing threads with Cousins talk around here again?
Ok and I'll now fix that info for you, McVay's roster in WAS was nowhere near comparable to his roster in LA. Hell if you want to go that route, you're essentially saying that if McVay was Stafford's OC in Detroit, the Lions would've won the SB? Yeah makes sense. There's backfire #1.

Backfire #2- I didnt bring up Cousins. Your boy did. I was talking about Ross Blacklock and Jalen Reagor. He brought Cousins into the thread. So to answer your question, HE derails threads with Cousins talk (as do you).

Thanks for checking in though!
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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CharVike wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:41 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:53 am
There's no question at all about which WR has greater upside. Reagor has crazy upside. A rough start to his NFL career with a running QB who is way below average throwing the ball has limited him. Moving to a team with one of the best QBs at throwing the ball could totally turn his early career around. It does seem strange the Vikings chose to keep Nailor over ISM.
Greater upside between Watts and Blacklock is up in the air, but there was a reason Blacklock was rated so far above Watts entering the league. That one is up in the air as to greater upside. Hopefully our coaches and GM know what they're doing.
They kept Nailor because it was there pick. If Speilman was still here Wyatt Davis and Mond and the rest of the 3rd round stiffs would still be hanging around doing nothing but keeping the bench warm. Nailor has potential. He's a rookie next year is key. If ISM could catch a punt he'd still be here. Catching it is a must have. The rest is a nice to have. Reagor is an enigma. Everything about him has a 180 to it. I've read he has good hands and then other say too many drops. I read elite speed but he didn't run elite at the combine. I read game breaker but then he tends to head for the sideline instead of trying to shoot/split gaps. I just hope for now he can field punts cleanly. Muffed punts are back breakers.
I don't like the narrative that Kwesi made all his decisions based on who he did and didn't draft. The draft is over and hopefully he can set aside any bias regarding who he picked when it comes to who makes the team. By most accounts ISM is a better WR than Nailor, but maybe Nailor is a better special teams player than ISM. That could easily explain the choice. Maybe ISM is a pain in the a$$. That could explain it. Reagor will be our PR. I'm psyched for Reagor despite certain posters being blind to the potential. He is one of the fastest and most explosive players in the NFL. Anybody with any vision can see this. The not so impressive combine time was coming back from injury too soon. I give him credit for running there. His Pro Day 40 time was 4.28. Pro day less reliable true, but more indicative of his speed. SKOL VIKINGS!
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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vikeinmontana wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:26 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:13 am
You mean like the coaches of Blacklock and Reagor?

Also, where was this opinion when you were complaining about Zimmer not playing guys like Wyatt Davis last year?

Seems like you aren't very consistent in when you think coaches know what they are doing "fans on message boards" and when they don't.
Don't think the name Wyatt Davis has ever left my lips. Or reached my keyboard. Might be thinking of someone else there.

I feel like I'm always consistent in regards to coaches and players. I always think they always know more about their players then fans do. Doesn't mean I always agree with everything they do or that I feel they are always right. :confused:
Sorry, thought I was responding to someone else.

Regardless, the players who were picked up by the Vikings, a coaching staff had to have given up on them after being around them 24/7 and both were significantly higher draft picks with a lot more invested in them.

I do agree that the coaching staff and GM know more about these guys than we do and that makes it unlikely ISM or Watts come back to haunt us, but that is even more true for the two guys just picked up since higher draft picks tend to get more of a leash to fail.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:49 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:41 am

Filled in some missing info for you in your post. Who goes around derailing threads with Cousins talk around here again?
Ok and I'll now fix that info for you, McVay's roster in WAS was nowhere near comparable to his roster in LA. Hell if you want to go that route, you're essentially saying that if McVay was Stafford's OC in Detroit, the Lions would've won the SB? Yeah makes sense. There's backfire #1.
Not won the SB, but can you name the SB winning HC or coach of the year Stafford had at either OC or HC in Detroit? I can name 3 that Cousins has had and failed with.


Backfire #2- I didnt bring up Cousins. Your boy did. I was talking about Ross Blacklock and Jalen Reagor. He brought Cousins into the thread. So to answer your question, HE derails threads with Cousins talk (as do you).

Thanks for checking in though!
He is not my boy, but he brought up Cousins as part of a larger argument that you focused in on as the main argument. It didn't need to derail anything, but here we are.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:55 am
CharVike wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:41 am
They kept Nailor because it was there pick. If Speilman was still here Wyatt Davis and Mond and the rest of the 3rd round stiffs would still be hanging around doing nothing but keeping the bench warm. Nailor has potential. He's a rookie next year is key. If ISM could catch a punt he'd still be here. Catching it is a must have. The rest is a nice to have. Reagor is an enigma. Everything about him has a 180 to it. I've read he has good hands and then other say too many drops. I read elite speed but he didn't run elite at the combine. I read game breaker but then he tends to head for the sideline instead of trying to shoot/split gaps. I just hope for now he can field punts cleanly. Muffed punts are back breakers.
I don't like the narrative that Kwesi made all his decisions based on who he did and didn't draft. The draft is over and hopefully he can set aside any bias regarding who he picked when it comes to who makes the team. By most accounts ISM is a better WR than Nailor, but maybe Nailor is a better special teams player than ISM. That could easily explain the choice. Maybe ISM is a pain in the a$$. That could explain it. Reagor will be our PR. I'm psyched for Reagor despite certain posters being blind to the potential. He is one of the fastest and most explosive players in the NFL. Anybody with any vision can see this. The not so impressive combine time was coming back from injury too soon. I give him credit for running there. His Pro Day 40 time was 4.28. Pro day less reliable true, but more indicative of his speed. SKOL VIKINGS!
Nobody knows the behind the scene stuff. We just see the results. I was happy ISM got on the field as a rookie and made some plays. Something happened. Reagor has shown to be better just based on stat production with crappy QBs throwing to him. It's fine to be psyched about Reagor. He's in a great spot right now and it's not like he is our savior. It's a new deal for him and hopefully he takes full advantage.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

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CharVike wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:30 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:55 am
I don't like the narrative that Kwesi made all his decisions based on who he did and didn't draft. The draft is over and hopefully he can set aside any bias regarding who he picked when it comes to who makes the team. By most accounts ISM is a better WR than Nailor, but maybe Nailor is a better special teams player than ISM. That could easily explain the choice. Maybe ISM is a pain in the a$$. That could explain it. Reagor will be our PR. I'm psyched for Reagor despite certain posters being blind to the potential. He is one of the fastest and most explosive players in the NFL. Anybody with any vision can see this. The not so impressive combine time was coming back from injury too soon. I give him credit for running there. His Pro Day 40 time was 4.28. Pro day less reliable true, but more indicative of his speed. SKOL VIKINGS!
Nobody knows the behind the scene stuff. We just see the results. I was happy ISM got on the field as a rookie and made some plays. Something happened. Reagor has shown to be better just based on stat production with crappy QBs throwing to him. It's fine to be psyched about Reagor. He's in a great spot right now and it's not like he is our savior. It's a new deal for him and hopefully he takes full advantage.
This is not true. ISM has outproduced Reagor when given the opportunity putting up 1.73 yards per route run compared to Reagor's last place in 2021 .67 yards per route run in 2021 (148 of 148). He was the only receiver on the Eagles to produce so little while playing so much by more than half.

ISM has 2 games where he has come close to playing starter snaps on offense and he has 1 100+ yard game in one of those games. Reagor has 0 in his 24 starts.

Going to a more pass heavy offense like the Vikings can help a WR produce more just by sheer volume of targets available, but going from the #2 to #4 WR should more than negate any positive impact on his production. Likely he ends up like another WR "who just needed a better QB throwing him the football", Westbrook, did last year.

In the end this will only matter if JJ, KJ or Thielen miss significant time and I like ISM better in a significant roll in the offense than I trust Nailor or Reagor. Nailor because he is a rookie and Reagor because he is a really, really bad WR. The Rams barely threw
to their #4 WR and I expect the same here with KOC.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:16 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:49 am

Ok and I'll now fix that info for you, McVay's roster in WAS was nowhere near comparable to his roster in LA. Hell if you want to go that route, you're essentially saying that if McVay was Stafford's OC in Detroit, the Lions would've won the SB? Yeah makes sense. There's backfire #1.
Not won the SB, but can you name the SB winning HC or coach of the year Stafford had at either OC or HC in Detroit? I can name 3 that Cousins has had and failed with.


Backfire #2- I didnt bring up Cousins. Your boy did. I was talking about Ross Blacklock and Jalen Reagor. He brought Cousins into the thread. So to answer your question, HE derails threads with Cousins talk (as do you).

Thanks for checking in though!
He is not my boy, but he brought up Cousins as part of a larger argument that you focused in on as the main argument. It didn't need to derail anything, but here we are.
:lol: Ok Stump, however you need to twist and contort it to make yourself feel validated.
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Re: Vikings trade for DT Ross Blacklock

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:00 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:16 pm
Not won the SB, but can you name the SB winning HC or coach of the year Stafford had at either OC or HC in Detroit? I can name 3 that Cousins has had and failed with.




He is not my boy, but he brought up Cousins as part of a larger argument that you focused in on as the main argument. It didn't need to derail anything, but here we are.
:lol: Ok Stump, however you need to twist and contort it to make yourself feel validated.
It's called spin doctoring. Stump is a master of it.