8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Who carried the game on TV today? Somehow it’s not on my DVR, even though it was the only game at the time. Looks like I have to wait until tomorrow to catch the replay on NFLN.

But by golly, I can watch the 2008 Capital One Bowl!
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by halfgiz »

Was impressed by Chandler today he had some nice plays.
Mond...for lt being his first game, He done better than I was expecting. Had some nice throws and thought he was gaining some confidence.

Mannion is going to be gone I hope. He just was plain bad, which everyone already knew.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsFan84 »

halfgiz wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:21 pm Was impressed by Chandler today he had some nice plays.
Mond...for lt being his first game, He done better than I was expecting. Had some nice throws and thought he was gaining some confidence.

Mannion is going to be gone I hope. He just was plain bad, which everyone already knew.
Mannion is not going to be gone, he will stay as long Cousins is here and yeah, Chandler looked good and the diving catch by Dillion was nice
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by halfgiz »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:54 pm
halfgiz wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:21 pm Was impressed by Chandler today he had some nice plays.
Mond...for lt being his first game, He done better than I was expecting. Had some nice throws and thought he was gaining some confidence.

Mannion is going to be gone I hope. He just was plain bad, which everyone already knew.
Mannion is not going to be gone, he will stay as long Cousins is here and yeah, Chandler looked good and the diving catch by Dillion was nice
I would sooner they use Mannions roster spot. For someone else.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsFan84 »

halfgiz wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:15 am
VikingsFan84 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:54 pm

Mannion is not going to be gone, he will stay as long Cousins is here and yeah, Chandler looked good and the diving catch by Dillion was nice
I would sooner they use Mannions roster spot. For someone else.
Vikings will do that whenever Cousins is gone
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by makila »

From Arif on The Athletic.

The Minnesota Vikings finished their first preseason game under head coach Kevin O’Connell with a 26-20 loss to the Las Vegas Raiders. But that loss isn’t as important as the performance of key players the Vikings might rely on as the season progresses. Preseason wins and losses don’t tell us much about a team, but how critical players have developed can give us some insight.

Some of those players are fighting for roster spots, while others are fighting for a more prominent role on the team. While the preseason is just one element of a coach’s overall evaluation of a player, it’s still an important one to break down. Let’s take a look at who helped themselves, who didn’t and who put themselves on the map for a deeper examination.

Risers
Ihmir Smith-Marsette, wide receiver

Most of the depth receivers looked good, with Albert Wilson catching two touchdown passes, Myron Mitchell leading the team with 37 receiving yards and Trishton Jackson producing against a higher caliber of competition than either of them. But Smith-Marsette probably looked the most exciting. While his return of the opening kickoff was called back, it showcased some intriguing capability. But his receiving mattered even more. With five targets, three receptions and 31 yards, it was clear that Smith-Marsette has improved as a route runner and can use his athleticism in more dynamic ways than just running fast in a straight line. The incompletions weren’t his fault either. He could continue to muscle his way up the depth chart and earn a long-term role.

Kene Nwangwu, running back

Both heavily featured running backs had great showings, but Nwangwu was slightly better than Ty Chandler. While Chandler was more productive (50 yards on five carries), Nwangwu (seven carries for 41 yards) created more of his own production. He did a good job finding scarce running lanes and breaking tackles and was close to breaking off a big one for a touchdown. Nwangwu has matured as a decision-maker at running back and that makes him a dangerous threat as a backup or complementary piece.

Ty Chandler, running back

The Vikings are very likely to keep four halfbacks on the roster in addition to C.J. Ham at fullback, so it’s good that they seem to have drafted a pretty talented player as the fourth member of that room. It’s not an indictment of Chandler that there were some wide-open running lanes available for him, and it’s to his credit that he was decisive enough to take his best options and drag some defenders along for the ride. He looked like the nimble back the Vikings drafted him to be, and if he can add some pass-catching prowess like he showed at North Carolina, he can be an interesting weapon to develop.


Ed Ingram, guard

The Vikings have been very open about the competition for the starting right guard job, and throughout most of camp, Jesse Davis has been the leader. He has taken most of the first-team reps and, for the balance of camp, has looked like the better player. But Ingram improved dramatically over the course of camp and ended up looking like a much better player against the Raiders. While we have to be cognizant of the level of competition a player faces, Ingram did a good job generating a clean pocket and getting to the next level as a run blocker, sometimes taking defenders to the ground as he opened up lanes for Nwangwu and Chandler.

T.Y. McGill, defensive line

McGill has been perhaps the most consistent backup defensive lineman in camp and has shown up as a pass rusher and run defender. Against the Raiders, there was a clear drop-off in the run defense when Harrison Phillips left, but McGill helped restore it. On top of that, he notched two sacks and generated at least one additional pass disruption. An all-around high-level performance from the journeyman tackle follows a good camp showing that could result in him being defensive lineman No. 4 for the Vikings.

Zach McCloud, edge rusher

The Vikings have an interesting battle for their fifth edge-rusher spot at a time when depth at the position is lacking. Among Andre Mintze, McCloud and 2021 fourth-round pick Janarius Robinson, there’s healthy competition for that last job. But McCloud may have pulled ahead Sunday with a strong performance as both a run defender and pass rusher.

Fallers
Jesse Davis, guard

Davis made several mistakes as the starting guard, including giving up multiple pressures and missing some blocks in the run game. The Vikings have long had problems with interior pressure and a quarterback who needs a clean pocket more than most, so getting an upgrade there is paramount. Davis’ struggles here are independent of Ingram’s performance, but the fact that Ingram looked good really hurts Davis’ standing. Given that he wasn’t a stellar performer in Miami, it might be smarter to gamble with the rookie than go with the veteran.

Sean Mannion, quarterback

The backup quarterback battle has not set the world on fire, and there have been reasons to be worried about the play of Kellen Mond and Sean Mannion. For the Vikings, the decision is between untapped upside (Mond) and a known floor and ceiling (Mannion). Mannion wasn’t a disaster, but he didn’t do anything to make fans feel comfortable with his spot as the primary backup. Early, Mond made frustrating mistakes, including a near-pick on a bad decision. He consistently missed receivers, but he also threw two touchdowns and improved as the game went on. While some of that has to do with the level of competition, Mond looked more comfortable getting the ball downfield. He still needs to throw the ball on time more consistently, but it was nice to see some success after his struggles in camp. Mannion perhaps lost this job more than Mond won it, but at least there appears to be some clarity.

Josh Metellus, safety

The Vikings’ best non-specialist special-teamer last year, Metellus has been expected to make the roster on the strength of his ability there alone. But a penalty on special teams and some misses in run defense and in coverage don’t help his case, and if he’s a sufficiently inadequate backup, special-teams abilities might not be enough to make the team. Throw in the fact that he’s working with a clean slate with a new coordinator, and he doesn’t have a lot of wiggle room.

Troy Dye, linebacker

The primary backup linebacker in training camp when Jordan Hicks was out early on, Dye hasn’t done much to seize a role. His play against Las Vegas throws that further into question, especially with a solid performance by Blake Lynch and some flashes from Brian Asamoah. Dye was routinely out of phase in coverage and was late in the running game, making him a liability in both elements on defense. His coverage was particularly concerning, and the Raiders were comfortable targeting him as he struggled to close with speed. His biggest issue seems to be play diagnosis and biting on play action, and that’s a difficult one to solve by the time the season starts.

Ones to watch
Brian Asamoah, linebacker

Asamoah had an up-and-down day, but his highlight had to be an excellent tackle-for-loss along the sideline, the exact kind of play the Vikings drafted him for. He still has some issues with over-running plays or shooting gaps when he should be holding them, but that was nice to see. The Vikings will want more from him in coverage, but given the issues they have at backup linebacker, they’ll be happy to have him.

Zach Davidson, tight end

Davidson has been generating hype in camp, but it’s hard to separate fact from fiction when he’s often a checkdown target and isn’t being asked to run particularly difficult routes. Against the Raiders, he only logged one catch (on one target) for 12 yards, but that’s more than any other tight end managed, and he was open on a few plays on which he should have been targeted, including a missed opportunity for a touchdown on a scramble drill with Mond. If we see more opportunities for him down the road, he could be an intriguing name to throw into the pile as a possible replacement if Irv Smith Jr.’s recovery from injury lasts longer than anticipated.

Austin Schlottmann, center

The Vikings have had ample reason to look into replacements for starting center Garrett Bradbury. O’Connell mentioned outright that there would be a competition there, which is part of the reason we’ve seen Chris Reed practice there. But Schlottmann is in the running too, and he looked good against the Raiders, both at preventing pressure and winning as a run blocker up front and downfield. But it’s tough to evaluate centers specifically, and Schlottman also wasn’t winning rep after rep in training camp, so there’s going to need to be more there for him to be considered a true riser.

Armon Watts, defensive lineman

Watts isn’t on this list because he’s fighting for a job — he’s somewhat firmly established as the third lineman in base defensive packages and as a rotational pass rusher. The question with Watts is whether or not he can provide more than pass-rush capability. Vikings coaches have already pointed out that he could use more development as a run defender, and we saw Watts make some mistakes Sunday in run defense. We also saw him win big as a pass rusher. If he shows the ability to take his improvement as a run defender from the practice field into a game environment, he’s capable of being a menace to opposing offenses and allowing the Vikings to have a true defensive line rotation.

Patrick Jones II, edge rusher

While it’s clear D.J. Wonnum has improved, it hasn’t been enough to allay concerns about the Vikings’ depth at edge rusher. He’s inconsistent, and they need more from players like Jones if they truly want to keep their pass rushers fresh and have some stability at the position. On Sunday, Jones made a few mistakes — including a missed lane assignment that allowed a Jarrett Stidham rushing touchdown — along with a few highlights. Those highlights included pass-rush pressure and contributions to sacks even though he was never officially credited with one. Sacks are often a team effort, and sometimes the most impressive play comes from someone who didn’t log a stat. In this game, Jones was that someone.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

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Saw highlight of the game on youtube. Didn't even bother to look for the game on TV. The offense uses a lot of 2 TE sets, lots of disguise motion. This offense looks very similar to Scott Linehan's offense when he was OC. Hopefully Linehan 2.0 works out better than 1.0. The new and improved defense still has same old issue of not being able to get off the field.

Kellen Mond made some dangerous throws and the scramble in the red zone, several guys were wide open, he just developed tunnel vision. But even after all that, I still say if there was a fair completion btw Cousins and Mond, Mond would beat Cousins out. Mond just needs more play time and to calm his mind. As the game went on, his throws became more timely and accurate. The TD to Wilson was a beauty.

Anyway, from the start of FA to the Draft, this new regime looks like the old. I was really hoping for something different, but KAM/KOC regime looks to be even more conservative than the last one.

I'll probably end up watching more Bills game this year than Vikings. IF the Bills organization can win their first SB, there is no reason why the Vikings can't also.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

I didn't see the game, but for those who did, how would you characterize the Vikings run defense?

The stat sheet doesn't look great. They gave up 140 yards on 39 carries for a 3.6 yards-per-carry against. I guess that isn't terrible in terms of YPC, but still, the Raiders pounded it at them. I know it is preseason and not all the starters played but I was hoping to see some evidence of improvement in the run defense. If they can't defend the run better than they did last year, it's going to be another long season for the defense.

Another question for those who watched the game is in regards to the right guard and center position battles. Those aren't necessarily easy to pick out unless you're specifically watching those players, but any comments or observations to add to what makila posted? Sounds like Mannion struggled, but were his struggles caused by poor protection? While Cousins isn't Mannion, if those two positions aren't improved over what we saw most of last year, Cousins will be affected by that problem. I guess what I'd really like to know is, has the weakness at either center, right guard, or both, been addressed compared to what we saw last year? If not, it's a lot like the effect the run defense will have on the team's chances.

This is where I also hope KOC can show what he can do compared to Zimmer and first off make honest assessments of who deserves to win certain starting jobs, plus make scheme adjustments as necessary to minimize whatever personnel weaknesses the team still has going into this season. Zimmer seemed stubborn when it came to things like that and it cost him and the team in the end. I hope KOC shows a little more flexibility.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

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VikingsFan84 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:54 pm
halfgiz wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:21 pm Was impressed by Chandler today he had some nice plays.
Mond...for lt being his first game, He done better than I was expecting. Had some nice throws and thought he was gaining some confidence.

Mannion is going to be gone I hope. He just was plain bad, which everyone already knew.
Mannion is not going to be gone, he will stay as long Cousins is here and yeah, Chandler looked good and the diving catch by Dillion was nice
If Mannion is here or not Cousins will have nothing to do with it. He has no demands or even requests with management regarding Mannion staying or going.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

StpViking wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:48 am Saw highlight of the game on youtube. Didn't even bother to look for the game on TV. The offense uses a lot of 2 TE sets, lots of disguise motion. This offense looks very similar to Scott Linehan's offense when he was OC. Hopefully Linehan 2.0 works out better than 1.0. The new and improved defense still has same old issue of not being able to get off the field.

Kellen Mond made some dangerous throws and the scramble in the red zone, several guys were wide open, he just developed tunnel vision. But even after all that, I still say if there was a fair completion btw Cousins and Mond, Mond would beat Cousins out. Mond just needs more play time and to calm his mind. As the game went on, his throws became more timely and accurate. The TD to Wilson was a beauty.

Anyway, from the start of FA to the Draft, this new regime looks like the old. I was really hoping for something different, but KAM/KOC regime looks to be even more conservative than the last one.

I'll probably end up watching more Bills game this year than Vikings. IF the Bills organization can win their first SB, there is no reason why the Vikings can't also.
You can't mean Mond would beat Cousins out. You must mean beat Mannion out.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

I've read on here how Terrible Mond is/was, but in checking out YouTube and Google I've read/heard that based on this one game he was decent.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by StpViking »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:30 am
StpViking wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:48 am Saw highlight of the game on youtube. Didn't even bother to look for the game on TV. The offense uses a lot of 2 TE sets, lots of disguise motion. This offense looks very similar to Scott Linehan's offense when he was OC. Hopefully Linehan 2.0 works out better than 1.0. The new and improved defense still has same old issue of not being able to get off the field.

Kellen Mond made some dangerous throws and the scramble in the red zone, several guys were wide open, he just developed tunnel vision. But even after all that, I still say if there was a fair completion btw Cousins and Mond, Mond would beat Cousins out. Mond just needs more play time and to calm his mind. As the game went on, his throws became more timely and accurate. The TD to Wilson was a beauty.

Anyway, from the start of FA to the Draft, this new regime looks like the old. I was really hoping for something different, but KAM/KOC regime looks to be even more conservative than the last one.

I'll probably end up watching more Bills game this year than Vikings. IF the Bills organization can win their first SB, there is no reason why the Vikings can't also.
You can't mean Mond would beat Cousins out. You must mean beat Mannion out.
No I mean Cousins. I already know what I'm going to get with Cousins. Lose to teams that have above .500 records, should beat teams that are below .500. With Mond and his skill sets, he just brings something different to opposing defenses.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

StpViking wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:40 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:30 am
You can't mean Mond would beat Cousins out. You must mean beat Mannion out.
No I mean Cousins. I already know what I'm going to get with Cousins. Lose to teams that have above .500 records, should beat teams that are below .500. With Mond and his skill sets, he just brings something different to opposing defenses.
Mond would give us a 3-14 season so I guess he would get us a good draft pick to find his replacement. Let's revisit this after we have a 12 or more win season this year with Cousins as our starter.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:33 am I've read on here how Terrible Mond is/was, but in checking out YouTube and Google I've read/heard that based on this one game he was decent.
I just saw the highlights. He made some nice throws and showed some ability to scramble to keep plays alive, although he wasn't very accurate throwing on the run.

Thing about Mond that continues to stand out to me is his tight throwing motion. When he decides to pull the trigger the ball comes out fast and looks really tight. He also showed some nice touch on certain passes.

While highlights don't tell the whole story, personally I'm a lot more excited about Mond after watching those highlights than I was prior to watching them based only on what I heard and read from training camp. Not "I think he's better than Cousins right now" excited, but "he might be a good backup option this season" excited.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:52 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:33 am I've read on here how Terrible Mond is/was, but in checking out YouTube and Google I've read/heard that based on this one game he was decent.
I just saw the highlights. He made some nice throws and showed some ability to scramble to keep plays alive, although he wasn't very accurate throwing on the run.

Thing about Mond that continues to stand out to me is his tight throwing motion. When he decides to pull the trigger the ball comes out fast and looks really tight. He also showed some nice touch on certain passes.

While highlights don't tell the whole story, personally I'm a lot more excited about Mond after watching those highlights than I was prior to watching them based only on what I heard and read from training camp. Not "I think he's better than Cousins right now" excited, but "he might be a good backup option this season" excited.
Good take however I'd settle for and expect no more than he might be a doesn't totally suck backup option this season.