Top Tier QB's

[CharVike]

Carson Wentz seems to be a guy that gets ragged on heavily. Same ranking as Trubisky, Jones, Lock ect. I don't see any of them close. I think Wentz can help the WFT or whatever they are called today. He had 27 TDs and 7 Ints which I think is solid. They beat the Bills and 49ers easily. Maybe losing to Jax that last game did it. S happens.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Insult someone’s character? If you’ve paid any attention on here whatsoever, you’d know that I’ve always been a cousins and Spielman supporter. So yeah if you’re saying I all of the sudden didn’t like either of them, when everyone on here knows I do, then yeah, that makes you look foolish.

And I don’t know what to tell you other than, stop being lazy and look up the posts you’re trying to claim. I can tell you you won’t find many if any at all.

In the end, don’t throw out foolish accusations that you can’t back up. Then maybe, just maybe, you won’t get questioned on it

You guys need to go have a beer together and settle this Cousins stat slinging dispute. He’s under contact for a couple more years so it is what it is until it isn’t anymore.

It’s more about him making up crap and trying to tell me what I said a year ago when he wasn’t even on this board at the time. Not gonna deal with the childish garbage

[VikingsVictorious]

You guys need to go have a beer together and settle this Cousins stat slinging dispute. He’s under contact for a couple more years so it is what it is until it isn’t anymore.

It’s more about him making up crap and trying to tell me what I said a year ago when he wasn’t even on this board at the time. Not gonna deal with the childish garbage

Kirk isn't perfect, but he's good. JJ's IMO ridiculously over the top hatred of him is just too much.

[StumpHunter]

I think what disturbs me the most is that the new regime appears to believe Cousins is the team's QB of the future ala what the prior regime believed. I don't coach football and am not a GM (well, at least not a paid one... ), but it is hard for me to understand what they see that leads them to that conclusion. The two effects of that (lots of money invested in a pretty average QB and no apparent incentive to draft a long-term answer at QB) are significant, especially over time. One could argue that the Vikings lost Diggs because Diggs was so frustrated with Cousins he wanted out. Granted, the Vikings found Jefferson as his replacement, which was a stroke of good luck, but Jefferson has also voiced frustration with Cousins. And now it looks like Cousins will play out the end of Jefferson's rookie deal. If that frustration continues, I could see him getting out too.

Cousins is expensive in more ways than one. He costs them plenty in the present, but he also could cost them in the future, and in some ways the future cost is more severe.

This was a weak year for QBs in the draft, although I'm not convinced a good one or two won't emerge in time. Not sure why Willis slid so far, but the Titans might have gotten a steal in the 3rd where they got him. Next year's QB class is much stronger. With the Vikings emphasis on winning now, however, it is unlikely they'll draft higher than where they found themselves this last year, so it will be expensive to trade up to put themselves in position to grab one of those highly touted QBs, and that assumes they even will want to do that if they view Cousins as their future at the position.

The reason they like and believe in Cousins is probably best summed up with two words. Matt Stafford. They have been nearly identical QBs for years with Cousins slightly better in stats and much better in Win/Loss record. If Stafford can lead a team to a Super Bowl than Cousins certainly can.

Not sure why you think this because Matt Stafford is a reason to not believe in Cousins. Stafford is an example of what improving significantly at QB can do when you add him to a team a QB away from the SB and just puts 2018 and the impact of adding Cousins to this team had in an even more damaging light.

Not to mention, McVay has coached Cousins before and the result was one game over .500 over two seasons.

The gaslighting around the change of coach and scheme making a huge impact on the 10+ year vet is getting old. We know what Cousins is in the McVay offense, heck, we even know what he is when O'Connell coaches him, and it is pretty much the same or worse than what we saw the past 4 seasons.

[StumpHunter]

You clearly don’t like Cousins and aren’t hiding that from anyone. That’s all he said. You on the other hand tried to make the claim that I wanted Spielman and cousins gone before the season. Which just made you look foolish

You just love throwing out insults to someones character, ive seen it to me and ive seen it on some of your posts just since I got her. And youre lucky i am lazy and wont look for posts where you didint think cousins did a good job. But you my friend, are not worth arguing with.

Either you agree everything is 100% great with the Vikings, they did a great job drafting and every pick was a steal, their QB is great and absolutely the best option, and every other player on the team is great or you are labelled a "hater". No pragmatism allowed, only kool-aid drinking hype for some on this board, and it isn't enough to just disagree with the person's opinion, it is really important for them to add that hater label and to get personal because after all, the person said something negative about their favorite team.

There are some super sensitive posters on this board who just need to realize not everyone can buy in without seeing the reality of what this team actually is.

[CharVike]

The reason they like and believe in Cousins is probably best summed up with two words. Matt Stafford. They have been nearly identical QBs for years with Cousins slightly better in stats and much better in Win/Loss record. If Stafford can lead a team to a Super Bowl than Cousins certainly can.

Not sure why you think this because Matt Stafford is a reason to not believe in Cousins. Stafford is an example of what improving significantly at QB can do when you add him to a team a QB away from the SB and just puts 2018 and the impact of adding Cousins to this team had in an even more damaging light.

Not to mention, McVay has coached Cousins before and the result was one game over .500 over two seasons.

The gaslighting around the change of coach and scheme making a huge impact on the 10+ year vet is getting old. We know what Cousins is in the McVay offense, heck, we even know what he is when O'Connell coaches him, and it is pretty much the same or worse than what we saw the past 4 seasons.

Goff took that core Ram team to the Super Bowl. The Ram team has one of the best OL in the NFL. Put our POS OL out in LA and there will be no Super Bowl. Signing LBJ helped. We played against Stafford this year and he tried to hand us the game by turning the ball over 3 times. As a team we didn't want it. Cook was out and Matti did nothing because our OL couldn't block. Zim's D never put any pressure on Stafford and had zero sacks. Cousins was sacked 3 times. Our special teams didn't show up. You have thoughts on QBs like everybody. You mentioned Newton as a great addition. We hired JOC not McVay. We won't be able to run the same offense. There will need to be changes because we don't have the same players. We don't have a center who can block. Something will need to be done to help that stiff. The Rams O never needed to make a change for no center. Donald, Ramsey and Fletcher were top level players before Stafford. He didn't elevate them as the media will make people believe. Those three players would be immediate starters on our D and a huge improvement.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You just love throwing out insults to someones character, ive seen it to me and ive seen it on some of your posts just since I got her. And youre lucky i am lazy and wont look for posts where you didint think cousins did a good job. But you my friend, are not worth arguing with.

Either you agree everything is 100% great with the Vikings, they did a great job drafting and every pick was a steal, their QB is great and absolutely the best option, and every other player on the team is great or you are labelled a "hater". No pragmatism allowed, only kool-aid drinking hype for some on this board, and it isn't enough to just disagree with the person's opinion, it is really important for them to add that hater label and to get personal because after all, the person said something negative about their favorite team.

And here you come out of left field overexaggerating and butting into a conversation you clearly didnt read in its entirety. 1.) Never said every pick was a steal, never said anything was 100% great, never said our QB was "great" and never said every other player was great. Sounds pretty foolish if you ask me 2.)There's some that like Cousins and there are others that cant stand him. That is clear. It is quite clear you fall into the "cant stand him" side of things. JJBreaksRecords is no different. Am I wrong saying you or JJBR hate Cousins? Am I painting the board a false picture of you two by saying that? No just stating the obvious. Either way, super pumped to hear the constant finger point and whining over Cousins on game days from not just one, but two of you now. But that's here nor there.

If you paid any attention whatsoever Stump, prior to you weaseling your way into this conversation with what you probably thought was some sort of conventional wisdom, the reasons I said JJBR "looked foolish" was because he INSISTED "I was a guy that wanted both Spielman and Cousins gone last offseason" but refused to look up any posts of me saying such a thing because he was "too lazy". And ya know what, it's funny you jumped in Stump because there is probably nobody more fitting that knows exactly how I've always felt about Spielman and Cousins. So I think you could attest to JJBR's foolish, yes foolish claim of me "not wanting Cousins or Spielman here last offseason". If the word foolish hurt his feelings and hits him personally when it was his own claim he pulled out of his as#, I'm not sure what to say? Grow up maybe? Grow some thicker skin?

I mean think about it this way Stump, if someone new came on this board and said to you "you were probably a guy that drooled over Cousins last year and wanted him to stay".....that would be pretty FOOLISH to say right? Because we all know it wasnt true. Then that person even trolls you some but then wont look up the "posts" because he's "too lazy". For someone to just pull that claim out of the clouds and send it your way.... Ok well that's what JJBR just did and that's what the entire "foolish" thing was all about. Nothing to do with what he said about Cousins, the Vikings, or anyone else for that matter. Wasnt a personal attack at all. Just a stupid comment knowing I clearly never wanted those guys gone. So maybe we can have our facts straight before butting into conversations or making false claims? That would be a start and we wouldnt be here right now.

There are some super sensitive posters on this board who just need to realize not everyone can buy in without seeing the reality of what this team actually is.

No sensitivity towards here whatsoever. I'm going to call a spade, a spade. Am I wrong saying his comment of me not wanting Cousins and Spielman here was foolish? Was it not? Did he have any sort of clue or proof? No I'm just stating the obvious. But enough with the garbage of "you cant ever say anything bad about the team". I literally ripped Kwesi during free agency on here, have ripped Zim for two years now, have ripped Kwesi for the lack of value he got in the Lions trade, ripped plenty of players before and so on. So it's just more false claims and over exaggeration on your part now.

This all started because of the claim he made. Let's not turn this into anymore than it already was.... a foolish comment. That is all.

[Pondering Her Percy]

We know what Cousins is in the McVay offense, heck, we even know what he is when O'Connell coaches him, and it is pretty much the same or worse than what we saw the past 4 seasons.

The reason that argument simply doesnt work is because comparing Washington's offensive talent to the Vikings offensive talent or to McVay's offensive talent now in LA isnt even close. Both LA and the Vikings have way more talent than Washington had back then. And no, I dont care about the 90 year old WRs you will want to bring up in Washington, those two in their prime dont even match up to JJ/Thielen/Osborn or Kupp/the many good WRs they've had, let alone in their 30s.

So yeah, when Cousins is now in an offense with a lot of offensive talent (way more than he ever had in Washington) and this team is now ran by an offensive minded coach, specifically a scheme Cousins knows well, there's a lot of reason for optimism. Washingtons offensive players and the Vikings offensive players just arent in the same wheel house.

[StumpHunter]

Either you agree everything is 100% great with the Vikings, they did a great job drafting and every pick was a steal, their QB is great and absolutely the best option, and every other player on the team is great or you are labelled a "hater". No pragmatism allowed, only kool-aid drinking hype for some on this board, and it isn't enough to just disagree with the person's opinion, it is really important for them to add that hater label and to get personal because after all, the person said something negative about their favorite team.

And here you come out of left field overexaggerating and butting into a conversation you clearly didnt read in its entirety. 1.) Never said every pick was a steal, never said anything was 100% great, never said our QB was "great" and never said every other player was great. .

Painting people with a broad brush and exaggerating opinions is pretty annoying isn't it? You know, like saying posters "hate" a QB because they correctly believe that QB isn't good enough and want to move on?

[StumpHunter]

We know what Cousins is in the McVay offense, heck, we even know what he is when O'Connell coaches him, and it is pretty much the same or worse than what we saw the past 4 seasons.

The reason that argument simply doesnt work is because comparing Washington's offensive talent to the Vikings offensive talent or to McVay's offensive talent now in LA isnt even close. Both LA and the Vikings have way more talent than Washington had back then. And no, I dont care about the 90 year old WRs you will want to bring up in Washington, those two in their prime dont even match up to JJ/Thielen/Osborn or Kupp/the many good WRs they've had, let alone in their 30s.

So yeah, when Cousins is now in an offense with a lot of offensive talent (way more than he ever had in Washington) and this team is now ran by an offensive minded coach, specifically a scheme Cousins knows well, there's a lot of reason for optimism. Washingtons offensive players and the Vikings offensive players just arent in the same wheel house.

Pierre Garcon and Jackson were 1 year older than Kupp was last season when they played with Kirk in 2015. Both were younger than Thielen will be next season.

This past season we have seen Adams and Hill traded for blockbuster deals and then signed to massive contracts, the majority of which will be paid out while those two WRs are the same age or older than Garcon and Jackson were in 2015 and 2016. Diggs got a massive extension despite apparently being "90 years old". What do you know about WRs at the age of 29 and 30 that these NFL execs don't?

A great Oline, very good WR corp (Jackson, Garcon, Crowder) and solid TE are better weapons than he will have next year and he won 8 games with McVay as his OC.

[VikingLord]

So yeah, when Cousins is now in an offense with a lot of offensive talent (way more than he ever had in Washington) and this team is now ran by an offensive minded coach, specifically a scheme Cousins knows well, there's a lot of reason for optimism. Washingtons offensive players and the Vikings offensive players just arent in the same wheel house.

I don't mean to butt into this debate between Stump and you, but I'm curious what would have to happen for you to agree that Cousins isn't the answer in Minnesota and they should move on from him?

[VikingsVictorious]

Not sure why you think this because Matt Stafford is a reason to not believe in Cousins. Stafford is an example of what improving significantly at QB can do when you add him to a team a QB away from the SB and just puts 2018 and the impact of adding Cousins to this team had in an even more damaging light.

Not to mention, McVay has coached Cousins before and the result was one game over .500 over two seasons.

The gaslighting around the change of coach and scheme making a huge impact on the 10+ year vet is getting old. We know what Cousins is in the McVay offense, heck, we even know what he is when O'Connell coaches him, and it is pretty much the same or worse than what we saw the past 4 seasons.

Goff took that core Ram team to the Super Bowl. The Ram team has one of the best OL in the NFL. Put our POS OL out in LA and there will be no Super Bowl. Signing LBJ helped. We played against Stafford this year and he tried to hand us the game by turning the ball over 3 times. As a team we didn't want it. Cook was out and Matti did nothing because our OL couldn't block. Zim's D never put any pressure on Stafford and had zero sacks. Cousins was sacked 3 times. Our special teams didn't show up. You have thoughts on QBs like everybody. You mentioned Newton as a great addition. We hired JOC not McVay. We won't be able to run the same offense. There will need to be changes because we don't have the same players. We don't have a center who can block. Something will need to be done to help that stiff. The Rams O never needed to make a change for no center. Donald, Ramsey and Fletcher were top level players before Stafford. He didn't elevate them as the media will make people believe. Those three players would be immediate starters on our D and a huge improvement.

Good Post, but why do you continually refer to Kevin O'Connell as JOC?

[VikingsVictorious]

So yeah, when Cousins is now in an offense with a lot of offensive talent (way more than he ever had in Washington) and this team is now ran by an offensive minded coach, specifically a scheme Cousins knows well, there's a lot of reason for optimism. Washingtons offensive players and the Vikings offensive players just arent in the same wheel house.

I don't mean to butt into this debate between Stump and you, but I'm curious what would have to happen for you to agree that Cousins isn't the answer in Minnesota and they should move on from him?

As one of those who doesn't feel we need to move on from Cousins my answer to what would make me change my mind is if I saw a decline in Cousins play. IMO he has played quite well for us so my mind isn't going to be changed until he isn't playing well for us. I see what Stafford, a very similar QB to Cousins, did with the Rams after being a perennial loser just by getting a better team. I'm feeling pretty good about our chances with Cousins. If Hunter and Smith can play healthy all season I see us as at minimum a 10 win team and likely better. That may not match the way you see things and that's OK.

[Pondering Her Percy]

And here you come out of left field overexaggerating and butting into a conversation you clearly didnt read in its entirety. 1.) Never said every pick was a steal, never said anything was 100% great, never said our QB was "great" and never said every other player was great. .

Painting people with a broad brush and exaggerating opinions is pretty annoying isn't it? You know, like saying posters "hate" a QB because they correctly believe that QB isn't good enough and want to move on?

Lol “correctly believe” huh? Is that your ego talking? No the cousins haters are the ones that will literally make up every excuse they possibly can to point the finger at the QB being at fault, shuffle through the statistics picking only the ones that help their argument, disappear from the world when we win and the QB plays well, incapable of talking about anything other than the QB 95% of the time, downplays what they do well and make excuses as to why those things aren’t valid, give various excuses for other QBs but won’t let those excuses fly for our QB, avoid the obvious problems with our previous regime and continue to point at the QB, etc. You know….literally e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. you do….THOSE are the true cousins haters

[Pondering Her Percy]

The reason that argument simply doesnt work is because comparing Washington's offensive talent to the Vikings offensive talent or to McVay's offensive talent now in LA isnt even close. Both LA and the Vikings have way more talent than Washington had back then. And no, I dont care about the 90 year old WRs you will want to bring up in Washington, those two in their prime dont even match up to JJ/Thielen/Osborn or Kupp/the many good WRs they've had, let alone in their 30s.

So yeah, when Cousins is now in an offense with a lot of offensive talent (way more than he ever had in Washington) and this team is now ran by an offensive minded coach, specifically a scheme Cousins knows well, there's a lot of reason for optimism. Washingtons offensive players and the Vikings offensive players just arent in the same wheel house.

Pierre Garcon and Jackson were 1 year older than Kupp was last season when they played with Kirk in 2015. Both were younger than Thielen will be next season.

This past season we have seen Adams and Hill traded for blockbuster deals and then signed to massive contracts, the majority of which will be paid out while those two WRs are the same age or older than Garcon and Jackson were in 2015 and 2016. Diggs got a massive extension despite apparently being "90 years old". What do you know about WRs at the age of 29 and 30 that these NFL execs don't?

A great Oline, very good WR corp (Jackson, Garcon, Crowder) and solid TE are better weapons than he will have next year and he won 8 games with McVay as his OC.

Didn’t I say I don’t care about those WRs? That neither of them touch the skill level of JJ or Kupp. Literally don’t touch it. And I’d argue that Thielen is also better than both.

I would say a good OL, not great. Great is a stretch. A good WR corp (yet doesn’t even come close to what he has now), a solid TE and you’re forgetting ZERO running game or threat back there that was worth a damn.

So on what fricken planet do you think he had better options in Washington than he will this year? That’s legitimately laughable that you believe that. But of course you don’t even count a RB in your argument. Why would you? It doesn’t help your argument. Having a RB like Dalvin Cook in your backfield compared to Robert fricken Kelly alone makes a MASSIVE difference in the two offenses. Literally the only thing I give Washington over the Vikings offense is the OL. TE is a wash if Irv stays healthy. RB and WR aren’t even close. Like so far apart that you shouldn’t even attempt to make an argument because it would make you look…..foolish

Funny though how highly you thought of the Washington Redskins offense back then Washington fans werent even this excited about their offensive talent back then. Yet here you sit, so hell bent on saying how much of a problem cousins is that you’re literally sitting here defending the WASHINGTON REDSKINS offense, the biggest laughing stock of a franchise in the NFL in the last 20 years. Screams of desperation