Top Tier QB's

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SunyP
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Top Tier QB's

Post by SunyP »

I thought Kirk would have come in higher than this.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... -and-more/
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

SunyP wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:43 am I thought Kirk would have come in higher than this.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... -and-more/
Lol they gave Matt Ryan "Top Pros, Proven Winners"...... since when? And I'm sorry but Lamar Jackson does not belong in the "Bonafide Franchise QBs" category.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by IIsweet »

2023 NFL Draft list of QB's:
This is a very talented group. There are plenty more also. I would take nearly every one of these ahead of Pickett.
CJ Young Ohio State
Bryce Young Alabama
Will Levis Kentucky
Spencer Rattler South Carolina
DJ Uiagaleli Clemson
Anthony Richardson Florida
Tyler Van Dyke Miami
Phil Jurkovec Boston College
Kedon Slovis USC
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

SunyP wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:43 am I thought Kirk would have come in higher than this.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... -and-more/
So now Matt Stafford is a franchise QB after one good year preceded by MANY YEARS of perennial loser. Baker Mayfield a proven winner? Those invalidate this list.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Wed May 04, 2022 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:28 am
SunyP wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:43 am I thought Kirk would have come in higher than this.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... -and-more/
Lol they gave Matt Ryan "Top Pros, Proven Winners"...... since when? And I'm sorry but Lamar Jackson does not belong in the "Bonafide Franchise QBs" category.
Agree on Matt Ryan, and think he should be replaced with Dak, who doesn't have one losing season where he played more than 5 games. I would even put Ryan Tannehill in that category after he managed to pull the #1 seed without Henry for most of the season.

Jackson absolutely does belong in the Bonafide Franchise QB, more-so than Herbert who should be in the rising stars category along with Murray. Neither of those two have proven they can win consistently but I think both will at some point.

Outside of that, a pretty spot on list, although the duration of Cousins contract should probably just put him in the placeholder category. Winston is in that boat too and is the only one along with Cousins in that "can win with them" category with 5+ seasons that hasn't proven that they can win more than 10 games a season. At this point, don't we already know that you can't "win with them"? Or at least, not win anything important?
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by CharVike »

Lamar is a TV personality so he will never be ranked low. When you throw almost as many interceptions as TDs you suck. Lamar is also one of the biggest losers if you base it off playoff record. His team makes the playoffs which is a great accomplishment. Put him on a crap team and see if they make it. Send him to Houston and see how he does. Stafford is rated high. I've seen him many years. He don't lift a team. The Lions were garbage forever with him. That core Ram team is rock solid. I will give Stafford credit for that last drive that got them to the Super Bowl. Or you can say the 49er D collapsed. He can throw with the best when he's on. The key is "when". Jimmy G is considered garbage. He has one of the best playoff records. He marched them to the champ game on the road. That don't count for him. Dak will win that division again which I don't think is a great accomplishment. You can actually rest your team when playing division foes. Talk about a panic loser just look at the playoffs. Last year was the best example. Big time home favorites and he cracked at the end. Didn't even know what to do with the ball after the play. If Cousins did that BS he would be crucified. Put Dak in the west and face those teams all year and get beat up every week the story would be different. Comparing in the NFL has always contained flaws just based on who teams play.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:57 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:28 am

Lol they gave Matt Ryan "Top Pros, Proven Winners"...... since when? And I'm sorry but Lamar Jackson does not belong in the "Bonafide Franchise QBs" category.
Agree on Matt Ryan, and think he should be replaced with Dak, who doesn't have one losing season where he played more than 5 games. I would even put Ryan Tannehill in that category after he managed to pull the #1 seed without Henry for most of the season.

Jackson absolutely does belong in the Bonafide Franchise QB, more-so than Herbert who should be in the rising stars category along with Murray. Neither of those two have proven they can win consistently but I think both will at some point.

Outside of that, a pretty spot on list, although the duration of Cousins contract should probably just put him in the placeholder category. Winston is in that boat too and is the only one along with Cousins in that "can win with them" category with 5+ seasons that hasn't proven that they can win more than 10 games a season. At this point, don't we already know that you can't "win with them"? Or at least, not win anything important?
Lamar cant win a playoff game to save his life and has always had a good roster around him. I guess that means he's a "bonafide franchise QB" :confused:
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:18 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:57 pm
Agree on Matt Ryan, and think he should be replaced with Dak, who doesn't have one losing season where he played more than 5 games. I would even put Ryan Tannehill in that category after he managed to pull the #1 seed without Henry for most of the season.

Jackson absolutely does belong in the Bonafide Franchise QB, more-so than Herbert who should be in the rising stars category along with Murray. Neither of those two have proven they can win consistently but I think both will at some point.

Outside of that, a pretty spot on list, although the duration of Cousins contract should probably just put him in the placeholder category. Winston is in that boat too and is the only one along with Cousins in that "can win with them" category with 5+ seasons that hasn't proven that they can win more than 10 games a season. At this point, don't we already know that you can't "win with them"? Or at least, not win anything important?
Lamar cant win a playoff game to save his life and has always had a good roster around him. I guess that means he's a "bonafide franchise QB" :confused:
He literally did win a playoff game...

37-12 as a starter and in his only two full seasons lead an offense that was #1 and #9 in scoring and has won an MVP in his first two full season starting.

As for that good rosters in the two years he only played a part of the season he was 6-1 while the previous starter was 4-5, and 7-5 while his replacement was 1-4. Seems like he has a pretty significant, positive impact on his team winning football games, no?
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingLord »

SunyP wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:43 am I thought Kirk would have come in higher than this.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... -and-more/
I think the ranking is about right for Cousins.

What is wrong is the Vikings are paying Cousins like he's a member of the first group, and they're drafting as if they're set at QB instead of focusing on finding someone who could develop into a franchise QB.

We've all debated Cousins both as an individual player and how his contract affects the overall team's competitiveness to death, but I have yet to read an opinion from an impartial observer that suggests Cousins is anything more than a journeyman QB masquerading as a franchise QB. When the Vikings extended him yet again after KAM and KOC took over, I let out an audible groan.

I guess we'll all get to see if the problem was Zimmer and if KOC can coax more out of Cousins. If that happens I'll be the first person on here to admit I was wrong. But from where I sit, Cousins is who he is and no coach is going to change him at this point in his career.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:01 pm
SunyP wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:43 am I thought Kirk would have come in higher than this.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... -and-more/
I think the ranking is about right for Cousins.

What is wrong is the Vikings are paying Cousins like he's a member of the first group, and they're drafting as if they're set at QB instead of focusing on finding someone who could develop into a franchise QB.

We've all debated Cousins both as an individual player and how his contract affects the overall team's competitiveness to death, but I have yet to read an opinion from an impartial observer that suggests Cousins is anything more than a journeyman QB masquerading as a franchise QB. When the Vikings extended him yet again after KAM and KOC took over, I let out an audible groan.

I guess we'll all get to see if the problem was Zimmer and if KOC can coax more out of Cousins. If that happens I'll be the first person on here to admit I was wrong. But from where I sit, Cousins is who he is and no coach is going to change him at this point in his career.
His contract is 35 million a year and Rodgers is 50. I don't see that as close. We should always look for a better QB. We went with Mond over Jones last year. Mond is still here. I'm not sure why but he is. This year had nothing in the draft. Cousins missed a game last year and we faced a team that he beat early in the season and we couldn't even compete without him. Your correct he is who he is. He threw 33 TDs last year which is about his average season. Murray threw 24 and is one of the best. I know it's more than TDs but Brady threw 43 so that certainly helped his team. If he threw 10 that team was done. Brady has the best contract. He makes peanuts compared to Rodgers. Contract falls on the team not the player. We have many contracts that are killing us. Just look it up. Every Journeyman like Case throws 33 TD passes. I never realized that. They are all over the place. Why are these teams with nothing at QB not signing these guys? The Giants could use that and many others.
Last edited by CharVike on Thu May 05, 2022 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:30 am
VikingLord wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:01 pm

I think the ranking is about right for Cousins.

What is wrong is the Vikings are paying Cousins like he's a member of the first group, and they're drafting as if they're set at QB instead of focusing on finding someone who could develop into a franchise QB.

We've all debated Cousins both as an individual player and how his contract affects the overall team's competitiveness to death, but I have yet to read an opinion from an impartial observer that suggests Cousins is anything more than a journeyman QB masquerading as a franchise QB. When the Vikings extended him yet again after KAM and KOC took over, I let out an audible groan.

I guess we'll all get to see if the problem was Zimmer and if KOC can coax more out of Cousins. If that happens I'll be the first person on here to admit I was wrong. But from where I sit, Cousins is who he is and no coach is going to change him at this point in his career.
His contract is 35 million a year and Rodgers is 50. I don't see that as close.
Rodgers is signed for longer and will be making the majority of his money when Cousins is currently not under contract. So when Cousins is counting as 36 million in 2023, Rodgers will count as 31 million. In fact, since Cousins has joined the Vikings he has/will either counted against the cap significantly more than Rodgers (2018, 2021, 2022 and 2023) or was within 300K of Rodgers (2019 and 2020). We are paying 500K for a Honda Civic while the Packers are paying the same for a Lamborghini. Both of us are overpaying, but at least the Packers get a high performance QB out of the deal.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:46 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:18 pm

Lamar cant win a playoff game to save his life and has always had a good roster around him. I guess that means he's a "bonafide franchise QB" :confused:
He literally did win a playoff game...

37-12 as a starter and in his only two full seasons lead an offense that was #1 and #9 in scoring and has won an MVP in his first two full season starting.

As for that good rosters in the two years he only played a part of the season he was 6-1 while the previous starter was 4-5, and 7-5 while his replacement was 1-4. Seems like he has a pretty significant, positive impact on his team winning football games, no?
So he's a regular season hero? He's been embarrassed in the playoffs. He's 1-3 in the playoffs with a 3:5 TD:INT ratio. 6.6 YPA average. 68.3 average QB rating. 55% completion percentage on average. IMO, bonafide franchise QBs can and will win in the playoffs. It's not like Jackson was sitting on a 2020 Houston Texans roster like Deshaun Watson was. But the media just constantly toots this guys horn when in the end, he's done next to nothing in terms of getting the Ravens where they want to be. He hasnt even came close. And it's not going to get any better for him because the AFC is as loaded as its ever been. I've said it to you before and I will say it again, Lamar Jackson will never touch a SB.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:03 am but at least the Packers get a high performance QB out of the deal.
And a choke job in the playoffs every year. Rodgers is engraining himself more and more in the Lamar Jackson category..... A QB that everybody drools over because he's a regular season hero, but sucks a fat one in the playoffs.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:03 am
CharVike wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:30 am
His contract is 35 million a year and Rodgers is 50. I don't see that as close.
Rodgers is signed for longer and will be making the majority of his money when Cousins is currently not under contract. So when Cousins is counting as 36 million in 2023, Rodgers will count as 31 million. In fact, since Cousins has joined the Vikings he has/will either counted against the cap significantly more than Rodgers (2018, 2021, 2022 and 2023) or was within 300K of Rodgers (2019 and 2020). We are paying 500K for a Honda Civic while the Packers are paying the same for a Lamborghini. Both of us are overpaying, but at least the Packers get a high performance QB out of the deal.
I see no reason to relive history. I looked up the contract and that was average per year. The amount could change before I finish this post. I guess Cousins is getting much more. The genius Kewsi strikes again. Since you want to go back we should have picked Rodgers and had 2 chances. We felt he sucked. We did the Mond over Jones last year. Look at the early results. This year will be no different but I could be wrong and Mond will be Mahomes. Let's all hope so.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by CharVike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:06 am
StumpHunter wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:46 pm

He literally did win a playoff game...

37-12 as a starter and in his only two full seasons lead an offense that was #1 and #9 in scoring and has won an MVP in his first two full season starting.

As for that good rosters in the two years he only played a part of the season he was 6-1 while the previous starter was 4-5, and 7-5 while his replacement was 1-4. Seems like he has a pretty significant, positive impact on his team winning football games, no?
So he's a regular season hero? He's been embarrassed in the playoffs. He's 1-3 in the playoffs with a 3:5 TD:INT ratio. 6.6 YPA average. 68.3 average QB rating. 55% completion percentage on average. IMO, bonafide franchise QBs can and will win in the playoffs. It's not like Jackson was sitting on a 2020 Houston Texans roster like Deshaun Watson was. But the media just constantly toots this guys horn when in the end, he's done next to nothing in terms of getting the Ravens where they want to be. He hasnt even came close. And it's not going to get any better for him because the AFC is as loaded as its ever been. I've said it to you before and I will say it again, Lamar Jackson will never touch a SB.
The MVP thing is a waste to even bring up. Rodgers was an MVP when Brady beat his arse in the playoffs and won the SB with a new team and wasn't considered for the award. It's a media deal. Lamar is in commercials. Rodgers is also. It's no benefit to the entire business to say what he is. I will give him the credit for the entertainment value. His fans love him. Nothing wrong with that. He lacks the overall skill to march his team through the tough playoff road. Sooner or later you will need to complete some passes and that's when it will end. But he does sell many jerseys. That's what it's all about in the end. I bet there are about 12 Cousins jersey sold a year and that's what he bought for his family. Lamar sells millions. Has nothing to do with skill it's the public's perception that matters.