Let's play "Reckless Speculation — Kirk Cousins Edition"

[StumpHunter]

Well, considering he didn't sign with Washington because of his outrageous contract demands, refused to sign with any team in FA if they didn't meet his outrageous contract demands, and then refused to sign an extension that wasn't outrageous, I think any one of us can predict Cousins won't take a pay cut and will demand an outrageous amount of money and probably be right.

He has already done it three times in the past, and nothing is going to change now.

He accepted less money to sign with us than he would have got from the JETS.

Did he? Or did he realize the chances of him getting a large extension were much lower if he went to a bad team versus a ready made SB team?

[VikingsVictorious]

He accepted less money to sign with us than he would have got from the JETS.

Did he? Or did he realize the chances of him getting a large extension were much lower if he went to a bad team versus a ready made SB team?

The J E T S Jets-jets-Jets offer IIRC was a million or two a year more than the Vikings. Anything beyond that is mere speculation.

[VikingLord]

Agreed. It's speculation not a solid report.

He isn't quite a nobody...I mean he does have almost 100K followers and host some podcast with different athletes. Courtney Cronin and John Randle both follow...so some Vikings connections.

Well, considering he didn't sign with Washington because of his outrageous contract demands, refused to sign with any team in FA if they didn't meet his outrageous contract demands, and then refused to sign an extension that wasn't outrageous, I think any one of us can predict Cousins won't take a pay cut and will demand an outrageous amount of money and probably be right.

He has already done it three times in the past, and nothing is going to change now.

I can't fault Cousins for taking what the market will pay him. "Outrageous" is a subjective term in that context. If he was offered more by the Vikings or any other team than Washington was willing to pay him, that's the market rate and he would be a fool not to take it. I'd rather blame Spielman for signing him at that rate than Cousins for taking what was offered.

Whether Cousins takes a pay cut depends largely on whether he believes doing that offers him greater benefit than not doing that. If he wants to win a Superbowl during his career and wants to do so with the Vikings, it makes sense. If he wants to win a Superbowl during his career and there is an opening on a stacked team, but he'd have to take less to make it work, he'd probably take less in that situation. If he could take or leave a Superbowl, he's unlikely to take a pay cut no matter where he ends up this upcoming season, be that with the Vikings or some other team.

If the Vikings are smart they'll let Cousins play out his current contract and then decide where to go from there, especially if they draft a young QB again this year. That will give them two young prospects at the position, either or both of whom could be ready to take the reins at QB when the 2023 season starts.

[CharVike]

Well, considering he didn't sign with Washington because of his outrageous contract demands, refused to sign with any team in FA if they didn't meet his outrageous contract demands, and then refused to sign an extension that wasn't outrageous, I think any one of us can predict Cousins won't take a pay cut and will demand an outrageous amount of money and probably be right.

He has already done it three times in the past, and nothing is going to change now.

I can't fault Cousins for taking what the market will pay him. "Outrageous" is a subjective term in that context. If he was offered more by the Vikings or any other team than Washington was willing to pay him, that's the market rate and he would be a fool not to take it. I'd rather blame Spielman for signing him at that rate than Cousins for taking what was offered.

Whether Cousins takes a pay cut depends largely on whether he believes doing that offers him greater benefit than not doing that. If he wants to win a Superbowl during his career and wants to do so with the Vikings, it makes sense. If he wants to win a Superbowl during his career and there is an opening on a stacked team, but he'd have to take less to make it work, he'd probably take less in that situation. If he could take or leave a Superbowl, he's unlikely to take a pay cut no matter where he ends up this upcoming season, be that with the Vikings or some other team.

If the Vikings are smart they'll let Cousins play out his current contract and then decide where to go from there, especially if they draft a young QB again this year. That will give them two young prospects at the position, either or both of whom could be ready to take the reins at QB when the 2023 season starts.

That's a good read you posted there. Thanks for your time. That stuff about the Super Bowl if it's important makes sense also.

[StumpHunter]

Well, considering he didn't sign with Washington because of his outrageous contract demands, refused to sign with any team in FA if they didn't meet his outrageous contract demands, and then refused to sign an extension that wasn't outrageous, I think any one of us can predict Cousins won't take a pay cut and will demand an outrageous amount of money and probably be right.

He has already done it three times in the past, and nothing is going to change now.

I can't fault Cousins for taking what the market will pay him. "Outrageous" is a subjective term in that context. If he was offered more by the Vikings or any other team than Washington was willing to pay him, that's the market rate and he would be a fool not to take it. I'd rather blame Spielman for signing him at that rate than Cousins for taking what was offered.

"Outrageous" in the context of the quote I was responding too where the source was talking about Cousins' current demands that are most likely north of 40 million fully guaranteed in 2023 and 2024. If that is what is outrageous now, 27 million fully guaranteed per year in 2018 was outrageous and so was 33 million in 2020.

So if you feel 40+ million per year is outrageous for a QB who has 1 playoff win in 10 seasons and a .500 record, then so were his last 3 contract demands.

As for Cousins just taking what he was offered, that isn't what happened. He had a demand that no other QB in the history of the NFL has ever demanded, one that hurt the team he was going to significantly based on how it was structured versus a traditional 5 year contract, and got it because teams were desperate for a QB. He took advantage of the fact that there aren't even 16 consistently healthy QBs who won't hurt the team with their play on the field, and got paid because of it.

Now, every QB does that, and that is why guys like Wentz, Goff, Jimmy G and Carr got paid (although their situations were a bit different because they were not yet proven average QBs), but none have ever done it to the extreme Cousins has.

That doesn't mean Spielman isn't the most to blame for the signing and extension, and ultimately that is a big reason he was fired, but it does mean Cousins has some culpability in the situation.

[CharVike]

I can't fault Cousins for taking what the market will pay him. "Outrageous" is a subjective term in that context. If he was offered more by the Vikings or any other team than Washington was willing to pay him, that's the market rate and he would be a fool not to take it. I'd rather blame Spielman for signing him at that rate than Cousins for taking what was offered.

"Outrageous" in the context of the quote I was responding too where the source was talking about Cousins' current demands that are most likely north of 40 million fully guaranteed in 2023 and 2024. If that is what is outrageous now, 27 million fully guaranteed per year in 2018 was outrageous and so was 33 million in 2020.

So if you feel 40+ million per year is outrageous for a QB who has 1 playoff win in 10 seasons and a .500 record, then so were his last 3 contract demands.

As for Cousins just taking what he was offered, that isn't what happened. He had a demand that no other QB in the history of the NFL has ever demanded, one that hurt the team he was going to significantly based on how it was structured versus a traditional 5 year contract, and got it because teams were desperate for a QB. He took advantage of the fact that there aren't even 16 consistently healthy QBs who won't hurt the team with their play on the field, and got paid because of it.

Now, every QB does that, and that is why guys like Wentz, Goff, Jimmy G and Carr got paid (although their situations were a bit different because they were not yet proven average QBs), but none have ever done it to the extreme Cousins has.

That doesn't mean Spielman isn't the most to blame for the signing and extension, and ultimately that is a big reason he was fired, but it does mean Cousins has some culpability in the situation.

That's what a leader does he plows the way for others to follow and you pointed the others out. This sport has a career length of nothing so you better get everything you can. QB can play longer but ask Joe Theisman or RG ME about it who both are gone for different reason. QBs play an extremely difficult position and that's why there are so few average joes out there. Luck took the money and then bolted when the time was right for him. No Super Bowls but he did it on his own terms. I seen guys hang on forever and looked like a joke at the end. That was there call. Any average QB can demand what they want. If a super bowl is the most important thing then go to the favorite. Take less money and then hope everything breaks right. If Rodgers leaves the Packers that is the spot to go for a Super Bowl chance. The Bucs is another spot. I'm sure there are more. Remember though things broke great for the Rams this year. OBJ helped big time and was available thanks to the Browns stupidity. OBJ has wanted to go to LA for sometime and part of that is making a ton of money outside football. See everybody wants money.
"The other teams were courting Odell. Odell wanted to go to L.A. the whole time," Glazer said. "Odell looked at it like who didn't care if he was going to make the league minimum [salary] because he's going to make more money off the field in L.A. than he would on the field somewhere else.
OBJ has that skill and uses it. Not every player has it. IMO it comes down to the team. If nobody offers the money then the player won't get it. No different than any other business. Just like an actor who makes a ton more than Cousins can hold out for what they want. And they do it.
The QBs that get these big deals made it happen themselves. If they didn't work hard guess what happens? See J Russell. Say bye bye. That's a lazy idiot and didn't take advantage of the situation that his skill level put him in. Cousins never had that type of skill level and was labeled a bum when drafted. It took tremendous work. I highly doubt he was out clubbing it every night.

[vikeinmontana]

I've maintained I'm pretty neutral in regards to Kirk. Never been as bad as some here claim, never as good as other have claimed. What I will never fault him for, or any athlete for that matter, is getting as much money as he can while it is available. Too much money being made in the league overall, and too many question marks for players personally as far as how long that money will be available.

I can't think of anyone who would voluntarily take less money from their employers if it didn't benefit them in one way or another; so I don't know why people should expect any different from professional athletes.

[VikingsVictorious]

I can't fault Cousins for taking what the market will pay him. "Outrageous" is a subjective term in that context. If he was offered more by the Vikings or any other team than Washington was willing to pay him, that's the market rate and he would be a fool not to take it. I'd rather blame Spielman for signing him at that rate than Cousins for taking what was offered.

"Outrageous" in the context of the quote I was responding too where the source was talking about Cousins' current demands that are most likely north of 40 million fully guaranteed in 2023 and 2024. If that is what is outrageous now, 27 million fully guaranteed per year in 2018 was outrageous and so was 33 million in 2020.

So if you feel 40+ million per year is outrageous for a QB who has 1 playoff win in 10 seasons and a .500 record, then so were his last 3 contract demands.

As for Cousins just taking what he was offered, that isn't what happened. He had a demand that no other QB in the history of the NFL has ever demanded, one that hurt the team he was going to significantly based on how it was structured versus a traditional 5 year contract, and got it because teams were desperate for a QB. He took advantage of the fact that there aren't even 16 consistently healthy QBs who won't hurt the team with their play on the field, and got paid because of it.

Now, every QB does that, and that is why guys like Wentz, Goff, Jimmy G and Carr got paid (although their situations were a bit different because they were not yet proven average QBs), but none have ever done it to the extreme Cousins has.

That doesn't mean Spielman isn't the most to blame for the signing and extension, and ultimately that is a big reason he was fired, but it does mean Cousins has some culpability in the situation.

So what you're saying is QBs are the leaders of football and Cousins in the leader of QBs. Making Cousins the single greatest leader in all of football.

[J. Kapp 11]

I've maintained I'm pretty neutral in regards to Kirk. Never been as bad as some here claim, never as good as other have claimed. What I will never fault him for, or any athlete for that matter, is getting as much money as he can while it is available. Too much money being made in the league overall, and too many question marks for players personally as far as how long that money will be available.

I can't think of anyone who would voluntarily take less money from their employers if it didn't benefit them in one way or another; so I don't know why people should expect any different from professional athletes.

You make a good point. It’s not likely that anybody is going to voluntarily take less money. If a player’s contract expires and nobody will give him what he wants, then he’ll be forced to either take less or find another line of work. But volunteer? No.

However, in the case of the Vikings, Cousins’ contract is untenable for the team. Therefore it’s my belief they’ll do something to alleviate the situation. Whether that’s a trade or a restructure is anybody’s guess, but it’s going to happen. Kirk can refuse a restructure, but he doesn’t have a no-trade clause, so he can’t refuse a trade.

Here’s another angle. Would it actually be in Cousins’ best interest to refuse a restructure that pays him less than the $35 million he’ll make in 2022? It may seem like Cousins has all the leverage here, but he really doesn’t. He’s making top-3 money, which isn’t attractive to a lot of teams, and if the Vikings were to let him walk, it’s unlikely anybody is going to pay a 35-year-old QB what the Vikings did.

Something is going to happen. If we get past the 25th of March without a resolution — either a trade or an extension — I’ll be shocked.

[StumpHunter]

"Outrageous" in the context of the quote I was responding too where the source was talking about Cousins' current demands that are most likely north of 40 million fully guaranteed in 2023 and 2024. If that is what is outrageous now, 27 million fully guaranteed per year in 2018 was outrageous and so was 33 million in 2020.

So if you feel 40+ million per year is outrageous for a QB who has 1 playoff win in 10 seasons and a .500 record, then so were his last 3 contract demands.

As for Cousins just taking what he was offered, that isn't what happened. He had a demand that no other QB in the history of the NFL has ever demanded, one that hurt the team he was going to significantly based on how it was structured versus a traditional 5 year contract, and got it because teams were desperate for a QB. He took advantage of the fact that there aren't even 16 consistently healthy QBs who won't hurt the team with their play on the field, and got paid because of it.

Now, every QB does that, and that is why guys like Wentz, Goff, Jimmy G and Carr got paid (although their situations were a bit different because they were not yet proven average QBs), but none have ever done it to the extreme Cousins has.

That doesn't mean Spielman isn't the most to blame for the signing and extension, and ultimately that is a big reason he was fired, but it does mean Cousins has some culpability in the situation.

That's what a leader does he plows the way for others to follow and you pointed the others out.

The gaslighting that goes on with this QB...

So he is a leader now for getting everything HE can get at the expense of his teammates? Somehow I don't think the rest of the Vikings players see it the same way as they are cut or asked to take pay cuts to afford his massive, fully guaranteed deal.

[VikingLord]

As for Cousins just taking what he was offered, that isn't what happened. He had a demand that no other QB in the history of the NFL has ever demanded, one that hurt the team he was going to significantly based on how it was structured versus a traditional 5 year contract, and got it because teams were desperate for a QB. He took advantage of the fact that there aren't even 16 consistently healthy QBs who won't hurt the team with their play on the field, and got paid because of it.

Cousins wasn't so special he could make a truly outrageous contract demand that some poor team had to pay or else.

A more tenable explanation is, Spielman was desperate. He thought he had a team in a Superbowl window that was a QB short of getting there, and as a result, he was *willing* to pay what Cousins wanted. A contract is a mutual agreement, and both sides agreed to it.

This is a path we Vikings fans have gone down before, and for the worse at that. Anyone who remembers the deal Mike Lynn cut to bring Herschel Walker to the Vikings understands how a GM's mis-reading both the status of his team and thus mis-understanding what the real missing piece(s) is/are can fall into the trap of overpaying for the wrong, or insufficient, solution.

Your criticism belongs at Rick Spielman's feet.

[Husker Vike]

QB is the most important cog in a football team, we had our backs up against a wall and when that happens in any business you will overpay. The past is just that and the new regime now needs to find the best way to correct the situation, Pretty hard on a team when 24 percent of your cap is tied into one player unless you have a core of players on rookie deals.

[CharVike]

As for Cousins just taking what he was offered, that isn't what happened. He had a demand that no other QB in the history of the NFL has ever demanded, one that hurt the team he was going to significantly based on how it was structured versus a traditional 5 year contract, and got it because teams were desperate for a QB. He took advantage of the fact that there aren't even 16 consistently healthy QBs who won't hurt the team with their play on the field, and got paid because of it.

Cousins wasn't so special he could make a truly outrageous contract demand that some poor team had to pay or else.

A more tenable explanation is, Spielman was desperate. He thought he had a team in a Superbowl window that was a QB short of getting there, and as a result, he was *willing* to pay what Cousins wanted. A contract is a mutual agreement, and both sides agreed to it.

This is a path we Vikings fans have gone down before, and for the worse at that. Anyone who remembers the deal Mike Lynn cut to bring Herschel Walker to the Vikings understands how a GM's mis-reading both the status of his team and thus mis-understanding what the real missing piece(s) is/are can fall into the trap of overpaying for the wrong, or insufficient, solution.

Your criticism belongs at Rick Spielman's feet.

Nothing can come close to that H Walker deal. Speilman needed to get a QB. He had been trying like hell but never had a good hit. He went for the Cousins deal and I think it was a good move. At least it's not who's the stiff for this year at QB. The constant next bum up gets old after a few decades. We need to build a team. In todays NFL there is no dominate team. Nobody came out and said the Rams are in. They hardly came up in the conversation. The year before it was the Bucs again they never came up. Before them it was the 49ers ect... It changes now by the year. But if a team has nothing at QB they are done. See the Saints without Brees. They will be a nothing deal until they fix that huge hole. They are done. That could take a week or never. I'm looking forward to this next season. Hopefully Hunter is back in there. He's a great player. We need to draft better. Much better.

[CharVike]

That's what a leader does he plows the way for others to follow and you pointed the others out.

The gaslighting that goes on with this QB...

So he is a leader now for getting everything HE can get at the expense of his teammates? Somehow I don't think the rest of the Vikings players see it the same way as they are cut or asked to take pay cuts to afford his massive, fully guaranteed deal.

I'm sure Harrison is ok with it. He makes a little himself for a 33 year old slow safety. So I don't see where Smith didn't get anything. He is paid the 2nd most in the NFL and he's not close to the 2nd best S. He's declining. Yea he's crying all the way to the bank thanks to Kirk. That's a selfish player if there ever was one. He's only looking for the money and I don't blame him. But he needs to work harder and get his skills back. Now's not the time to rest. This leader stuff is a bunch of BS. They say Stafford is the leader of the Rams. That's BS Donald is the leader of that team. Always was and will be until he quiets. Every guy follows him including Stafford. I'm not knocking Stafford he lead that team on some great late drives. But he's not the leader of that team although the media and some fans think he is. Matt Ryan is the highest CAP guy. He didn't lead that team anywhere. I don't think he out played many either. His team screwed up that CAP hit. Sound familiar?

[StumpHunter]

The gaslighting that goes on with this QB...

So he is a leader now for getting everything HE can get at the expense of his teammates? Somehow I don't think the rest of the Vikings players see it the same way as they are cut or asked to take pay cuts to afford his massive, fully guaranteed deal.

I'm sure Harrison is ok with it. He makes a little himself for a 33 year old slow safety. So I don't see where Smith didn't get anything. He is paid the 2nd most in the NFL and he's not close to the 2nd best S. He's declining. Yea he's crying all the way to the bank thanks to Kirk. That's a selfish player if there ever was one. He's only looking for the money and I don't blame him. But he needs to work harder and get his skills back. Now's not the time to rest. This leader stuff is a bunch of BS. They say Stafford is the leader of the Rams. That's BS Donald is the leader of that team. Always was and will be until he quiets. Every guy follows him including Stafford. I'm not knocking Stafford he lead that team on some great late drives. But he's not the leader of that team although the media and some fans think he is.

Talk about an apples to oranges comparison. A guy making almost a quarter less than Cousins who could be cut at any time with little cap repercussions if his play starts to falter versus a guy who the Vikings are stuck paying 21% of the salary cap too.

Matt Ryan is the highest CAP guy. He didn't lead that team anywhere. I don't think he out played many either. His team screwed up that CAP hit. Sound familiar?

Yea, what is your point? Another team being stuck with an overpaid QB doesn't make our situation better. Not to mention Ryan is a former MVP who took his team to the SB. What has Kirk done again?