J Jefferson throwing shade at Cousins

[Pondering Her Percy]

Resigning Case or Teddy and drafting the best QB available was the right move from the start. Paying a QB a fully guaranteed contract that made him the highest paid player in the NFL who had never won more than 9 games in a season was not. That was obvious then, it is obvious now.

That is your issue with the Cousins signing. Not that Cousins was the worst move as a player, but that the money they used to sign him made it the worst move.

Personally, I wish they stuck with Teddy. He was the most economical option, would have given them reasonable production at the position while they evaluated other options.

But I don't think the Vikings would have drafted a QB in the 1st round in 2018 regardless. If they kept Teddy or Keenum they still make the Hughes pick. QB would not have been perceived as a priority and Jackson was not a clear winning prospect at that point. The signing of Cousins, didn't materially change their draft approach.

He stated not too long ago that his plan would’ve been keeping Case and then drafting Jordan Love in 2020. So yes keep Case as the starter for 2 more seasons and resorting to Jordan Fricken Love ....what a plan. Keeping keenum for 2 years and reaching on a project QB. Gross.

[StumpHunter]

That is your issue with the Cousins signing. Not that Cousins was the worst move as a player, but that the money they used to sign him made it the worst move.

Personally, I wish they stuck with Teddy. He was the most economical option, would have given them reasonable production at the position while they evaluated other options.

But I don't think the Vikings would have drafted a QB in the 1st round in 2018 regardless. If they kept Teddy or Keenum they still make the Hughes pick. QB would not have been perceived as a priority and Jackson was not a clear winning prospect at that point. The signing of Cousins, didn't materially change their draft approach.

He stated not too long ago that his plan would’ve been keeping Case and then drafting Jordan Love in 2020. So yes keep Case as the starter for 2 more seasons and resorting to Jordan Fricken Love ....what a plan. Keeping keenum for 2 years and reaching on a project QB. Gross.

Why do you feel the need to make things up? I gave a plan that had Cousins being traded in 2020 and Case being signed for cheap. The QB I liked who was available where we drafted was Jordan Love, and he was not a reach there, since he was drafted right after the Vikings 2nd 1st round pick.

[StumpHunter]

Look we all know you have a man crush on Jackson and you want to hold strong to what you said about him from day 1. But I can tell you right now you’ll quickly realize that Jackson won’t ever touch a SB. Hell at this rate given how pathetic he is in the playoffs, he’d be lucky to get to a conference championship. Again, the only thing saving him is the ravens front office consistently keeping talent on the field. If it wasn’t for that, he’d be a disaster because his defense would constantly be giving up points and he’d constantly have to try and throw his way to a win, which he can’t do, especially in the playoffs when they need him to

It has nothing to do with a "man crush", it is facing the reality that a QB we could have drafted, should have drafted, would have been better for this team than our current QB. Jackson has his flaws and needs to improve in his passing to take that next step, but he is a much better and much cheaper QB than Cousins. It isn't really debatable, which is why instead of tackling that topic you instead choose to rip Jackson and say nonsensical things like Jackson being unable to keep up with a defense that gives up a lot of points, when he has lead an offense that was #1 (by a mile) and #9 in scoring efficiency the past 2 seasons. With Dalvin and 2 great WRs getting 1 on 1s constantly, defending this offense would be a nightmare for defensive coordinators.

[VikingsVictorious]

I've never noticed swagger with Brady. Rodgers and Favre yes. I haven't seen enough of Herbert and Allen to know if they have swagger. I know Montana didn't. Bradshaw did. I do associate swagger with arrogance so I'm not confusing it. Quiet confidence is much preferred by me, but players can be great with swagger or without.

In my way of thinking swagger is an overall attitude of confidence in the huddle and even in the middle of a play. Some guys look more deer in the headlights than others when stressed and perform as such. In my mind guys who exude confidence are and look clutch when the chips are down.

In my mind Cousins has talent but very little swagger.....jmo. I don't think he is a guy that others look at in the huddle to show confidence in what he's doing and gain confidence from his demeanor. Which is basically what JJ stated.

I think you're confusing confidence with Swagger. Swagger=Bravado. An I'm the man everybody look at me type attitude. Many QBs have that and it works for many of them. Many amazing QBs like Joe Montana for example exuded a quiet confidence. That is nothing like swagger. That also works for many QBs. I believe Kirk has quiet confidence. It's my preferred trait over swagger.

[VikingsVictorious]

Absolutely. Overpaying for a QB who had a significant history of not being good enough was never going to work. Overpaying for a HOFer like Brett Favre or Peyton Manning sure, that makes sense if you have the team to compete right now. But breaking the bank to sign Kirk Cousins?

So you would have drafted Jackson?

I realize it is tempting to answer yes to that given hindsight, but if possible focus on what happened and who was available at that point in the draft. Also, I think the Vikings had to move on Cousins before the draft, so if you say you would have taken Jackson there even with Cousins on the team with that overpriced contract, realize you would have probably been out of job as GM, at least with the Vikings.

Also, had the Vikings NOT signed Cousins prior to that draft, they would have gone into it needing a QB and not being in a great spot to get one of the top QBs. Now time has shown most of those top QBs to not have done well, but at the time and given what was known you would have put yourself under intense pressure to move up to grab one of those QBs who didn't turn out so well. Can you imagine the criticism had you traded up for Sam Darnold instead of holding pat and drafting Lamar Jackson? But that would have been far more likely to happen than holding pat and drafting Jackson.

My point in all this is, an honest assessment of the situation using what was known at the time does not make Spielman's decision objectively poor compared to the alternatives. It might have been the least poor option of a bucket of poor options, but I can't be certain it was objectively poor and I don't think you can either despite your certainty.

Brilliant post.

[YikesVikes]

I don't think he yelled at Kirk. He said come on Kirk throw the damn ball (route). In football, guys react and say things out loud all the time (Not necessarily loud enough for the other to hear) We don't know who has said what out loud. It was picked up because it was a COVID year and there were no fans and a hot mic was accidentally left on.

No, that's not what he said. He said, "#### Kirk! C'mon, throw the flag!"

Everyone gets frustrated, I get it. But I'm simply not going to believe it's commonplace for a rookie WR to cuss out a veteran QB. And he definitely said it loud enough for everyone around him to hear. Maybe the mics don't pick it up with a full stadium but I guarantee you Cousins and the rest of the team would have heard it.

My point is that it was picked up by a boom mic. It doesn't mean it was said to Kirk. Remember Kirk is 25 yards or so away. No they wouldn't have heard it. How do you know he said it loud enough for everyone else to hear? It was picked up by a mic. Either way, this is profootball not Pee Wee. These are grown men. Most of them are alpha males. I don't think any of these things are rare. He didn't say or do anything to insult Kirk. Voicing outloud that your Qb choose the wrong route isnt a sign of disrespect. This is a non story. I know because I did the same #### as a wr in high school, college and for the 9 man flag team I'm on.

[YikesVikes]

In my way of thinking swagger is an overall attitude of confidence in the huddle and even in the middle of a play. Some guys look more deer in the headlights than others when stressed and perform as such. In my mind guys who exude confidence are and look clutch when the chips are down.

In my mind Cousins has talent but very little swagger.....jmo. I don't think he is a guy that others look at in the huddle to show confidence in what he's doing and gain confidence from his demeanor. Which is basically what JJ stated.

I think you're confusing confidence with Swagger. Swagger=Bravado. An I'm the man everybody look at me type attitude. Many QBs have that and it works for many of them. Many amazing QBs like Joe Montana for example exuded a quiet confidence. That is nothing like swagger. That also works for many QBs. I believe Kirk has quiet confidence. It's my preferred trait over swagger.

Swagger is not bravado. That's it, that's the post.

[Pondering Her Percy]

He stated not too long ago that his plan would’ve been keeping Case and then drafting Jordan Love in 2020. So yes keep Case as the starter for 2 more seasons and resorting to Jordan Fricken Love ....what a plan. Keeping keenum for 2 years and reaching on a project QB. Gross.

Why do you feel the need to make things up? I gave a plan that had Cousins being traded in 2020 and Case being signed for cheap. The QB I liked who was available where we drafted was Jordan Love, and he was not a reach there, since he was drafted right after the Vikings 2nd 1st round pick.

ehhhhh was that it? Because last I remember you were the one saying you would've passed on Cousins and kept Case. I dont know maybe I'm mixing up two different conversations. When I asked you for your GM expertise and wanted to see a plan, I remember you came up with an offseason where we overpaid a million free agents, held onto Diggs, kept some bigger washed up contracts on the team and drafted Jordan Love. Lets just say that whatever the heck you did, it wasnt a good plan. Whether you kept Case after 2017 or signed him after trading Cousins, you would've had Case on this roster longer than he needed to be. Again, Love is a raw project. Thats not even a 1 and done for Case. Thats multiple years of the current BROWNS BACKUP QB being our starter. All in hopes that this kid out of Utah St of all schools can even play by year 3.

But yes he was a reach. I'm not saying in terms of where he went vs. where we were picking. I'm saying talent wise, I dont think he warranted a first round pick at all. Played in a junk conference and his final year at Utah St. he threw 17 interceptions which is a ridiculous amount in college. No less he threw those 17 interceptions against XFL competition. Honestly, Kellen Mond being picked in the 3rd round or Kyle Trask being picked back end of the 2nd is way more value than Love in the 1st. No less, I think Mond and Trask are more pro ready than Love was anyways.

He was a project QB that GB reached for. Simple as that.

[fiestavike]

Given the evolution of rules in the NFL, teams should draft a QB every year. An elite QB is more valuable than 20 starters at other positions. That's just the stupid way the league has refashioned itself. All of the equalizing factors and obstacles have been removed from the game in order to push the passing game for the 'fans'.

You can't realistically consistently compete for a championship without an elite QB. An elite QB is exponentially more valuable than a 'good' QB, but a 'good' QB is worth at least two good starters. A meh QB is only slightly less valuable than a good QB. Paying a meh or good QB like an elite QB is like paying the same thing for 1/20th or 1/10th the real, adjusted production you got from the elite QB. You cannot realistically compete without an elite QB or at least a good QB on a rookie contract. Since Kirk is not elite, he is never going to be the answer. If Mond can produce 'good' QB play on a rookie deal, the Vikings will have a chance at a small window.

Teams should be drafting QBs every year in order to at least keep the possibility of that window open. If the player does not turn into an elite QB, sign him cheap or let him go. If he does, he now owns your team and has become your GM. If he is a good GM you will be a perennial contender.

Welcome to the NFL 2021.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Look we all know you have a man crush on Jackson and you want to hold strong to what you said about him from day 1. But I can tell you right now you’ll quickly realize that Jackson won’t ever touch a SB. Hell at this rate given how pathetic he is in the playoffs, he’d be lucky to get to a conference championship. Again, the only thing saving him is the ravens front office consistently keeping talent on the field. If it wasn’t for that, he’d be a disaster because his defense would constantly be giving up points and he’d constantly have to try and throw his way to a win, which he can’t do, especially in the playoffs when they need him to

It has nothing to do with a "man crush", it is facing the reality that a QB we could have drafted, should have drafted, would have been better for this team than our current QB. Jackson has his flaws and needs to improve in his passing to take that next step, but he is a much better and much cheaper QB than Cousins. It isn't really debatable, which is why instead of tackling that topic you instead choose to rip Jackson and say nonsensical things like Jackson being unable to keep up with a defense that gives up a lot of points, when he has lead an offense that was #1 (by a mile) and #9 in scoring efficiency the past 2 seasons. With Dalvin and 2 great WRs getting 1 on 1s constantly, defending this offense would be a nightmare for defensive coordinators.

No the Vikings should NOT have drafted Jackson. Like idk where along the line you think this guy would've fit with this team.

-We hired Flip that year who did nothing but pass and ignore the fact he had Cook and Murray in the backfield. (bad news for Jackson). He would've been lucky if he wasnt ruined after year 1 with Flip
-We had a bad OL all these years (also bad news for Jackson)
-We had a diva at WR that threw a fit when we ran too much or he didnt get the ball. (also bad news for Jackson)
-We ended up having a defense this year that couldnt stop a team from scoring (also bad news for Jackson).

And then guess what? After 5 years of Jackson at QB, we STILL wouldnt have a SB championship as of this year, let alone a conference championship appearance (yes he sucks in the playoffs if you havent gotten the memo) and he'd be entering his 5th year next season and looking for a stupid money contract. So in the end, what did the Vikings accomplish by drafting Jackson? Gaining an extra 2 regular season wins over 3 seasons? I know that regular season record is a big deal in your world. Even bigger than playoffs.

[VikingsVictorious]

I think you're confusing confidence with Swagger. Swagger=Bravado. An I'm the man everybody look at me type attitude. Many QBs have that and it works for many of them. Many amazing QBs like Joe Montana for example exuded a quiet confidence. That is nothing like swagger. That also works for many QBs. I believe Kirk has quiet confidence. It's my preferred trait over swagger.

Swagger is not bravado. That's it, that's the post.

Here's from the dictionary. It uses a harsher word than bravado. Arrogant and aggressive.

walk or behave in a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive way.
"he swaggered along the corridor"

a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive gait or manner.
"they strolled around the camp with an exaggerated swagger"

Now I get that the meaning of words evolves over time and in a sports sense having swagger isn't necessarily bad, but if it just meant confidence than use the word confidence. It means more than confident. It implies a person thinking he/she is superior to others. Cocky. I think of it as bravado.

I did some further checking. Merriam Webster Dictionary Definition.

Definition of swagger (Entry 1 of 3)
intransitive verb

1: to conduct oneself in an arrogant or superciliously pompous manner
especially : to walk with an air of overbearing self-confidence

2: BOAST, BRAG

Swagger according to the dictionary is a very non complimentary term. Hence my preference for quiet confidence.

I found Bravado YES!!

Definition of swagger (Entry 2 of 3)
1a: an arrogantly self-confident way of walking : an act or instance of swaggering
b: arrogant or conceitedly self-assured behavior
c: ostentatious display or bravado
2: bold or brash self-confidence

The third form may be one that you Yikes Vikes will like a little better, but to me it still isn't good.

swagger adjective
Definition of swagger (Entry 3 of 3)
: marked by elegance or showiness : POSH

[VikingsVictorious]

Why do you feel the need to make things up? I gave a plan that had Cousins being traded in 2020 and Case being signed for cheap. The QB I liked who was available where we drafted was Jordan Love, and he was not a reach there, since he was drafted right after the Vikings 2nd 1st round pick.

ehhhhh was that it? Because last I remember you were the one saying you would've passed on Cousins and kept Case. I dont know maybe I'm mixing up two different conversations. When I asked you for your GM expertise and wanted to see a plan, I remember you came up with an offseason where we overpaid a million free agents, held onto Diggs, kept some bigger washed up contracts on the team and drafted Jordan Love. Lets just say that whatever the heck you did, it wasnt a good plan. Whether you kept Case after 2017 or signed him after trading Cousins, you would've had Case on this roster longer than he needed to be. Again, Love is a raw project. Thats not even a 1 and done for Case. Thats multiple years of the current BROWNS BACKUP QB being our starter. All in hopes that this kid out of Utah St of all schools can even play by year 3.

But yes he was a reach. I'm not saying in terms of where he went vs. where we were picking. I'm saying talent wise, I dont think he warranted a first round pick at all. Played in a junk conference and his final year at Utah St. he threw 17 interceptions which is a ridiculous amount in college. No less he threw those 17 interceptions against XFL competition. Honestly, Kellen Mond being picked in the 3rd round or Kyle Trask being picked back end of the 2nd is way more value than Love in the 1st. No less, I think Mond and Trask are more pro ready than Love was anyways.

He was a project QB that GB reached for. Simple as that.

Jumping in here after the season Keenum had he wasn't going to sign cheap and he didn't sign cheap unless you consider $20 million cheap.

[VikingsVictorious]

Given the evolution of rules in the NFL, teams should draft a QB every year. An elite QB is more valuable than 20 starters at other positions. That's just the stupid way the league has refashioned itself. All of the equalizing factors and obstacles have been removed from the game in order to push the passing game for the 'fans'.

You can't realistically consistently compete for a championship without an elite QB. An elite QB is exponentially more valuable than a 'good' QB, but a 'good' QB is worth at least two good starters. A meh QB is only slightly less valuable than a good QB. Paying a meh or good QB like an elite QB is like paying the same thing for 1/20th or 1/10th the real, adjusted production you got from the elite QB. You cannot realistically compete without an elite QB or at least a good QB on a rookie contract. Since Kirk is not elite, he is never going to be the answer. If Mond can produce 'good' QB play on a rookie deal, the Vikings will have a chance at a small window.

Teams should be drafting QBs every year in order to at least keep the possibility of that window open. If the player does not turn into an elite QB, sign him cheap or let him go. If he does, he now owns your team and has become your GM. If he is a good GM you will be a perennial contender.

Welcome to the NFL 2021.

First off I'm a fan and I consider a long running play to be far more exciting than a long passing play. Second elite means different things to different people. Cousins is VERY good and he could easily be the answer even this coming season. Odds are we don't win the Super Bowl so you can say you were right, but Cousins is plenty good to get the job done.

[YikesVikes]

Swagger is not bravado. That's it, that's the post.

Here's from the dictionary. It uses a harsher word than bravado. Arrogant and aggressive.

walk or behave in a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive way.
"he swaggered along the corridor"

a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive gait or manner.
"they strolled around the camp with an exaggerated swagger"

Now I get that the meaning of words evolves over time and in a sports sense having swagger isn't necessarily bad, but if it just meant confidence than use the word confidence. It means more than confident. It implies a person thinking he/she is superior to others. Cocky. I think of it as bravado.

I did some further checking. Merriam Webster Dictionary Definition.

Definition of swagger (Entry 1 of 3)
intransitive verb

1: to conduct oneself in an arrogant or superciliously pompous manner
especially : to walk with an air of overbearing self-confidence

2: BOAST, BRAG

Swagger according to the dictionary is a very non complimentary term. Hence my preference for quiet confidence.

I found Bravado YES!!

Definition of swagger (Entry 2 of 3)
1a: an arrogantly self-confident way of walking : an act or instance of swaggering
b: arrogant or conceitedly self-assured behavior
c: ostentatious display or bravado
2: bold or brash self-confidence

The third form may be one that you Yikes Vikes will like a little better, but to me it still isn't good.

swagger adjective
Definition of swagger (Entry 3 of 3)
: marked by elegance or showiness : POSH

Swagger has also been incorporated into a slang term and that I assure you is the way Jefferson is using it and the way most people under 40 use it today.

[Spot & Stalk Vike]

Here's from the dictionary. It uses a harsher word than bravado. Arrogant and aggressive.

walk or behave in a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive way.
"he swaggered along the corridor"

a very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive gait or manner.
"they strolled around the camp with an exaggerated swagger"

Now I get that the meaning of words evolves over time and in a sports sense having swagger isn't necessarily bad, but if it just meant confidence than use the word confidence. It means more than confident. It implies a person thinking he/she is superior to others. Cocky. I think of it as bravado.

I did some further checking. Merriam Webster Dictionary Definition.

Definition of swagger (Entry 1 of 3)
intransitive verb

1: to conduct oneself in an arrogant or superciliously pompous manner
especially : to walk with an air of overbearing self-confidence

2: BOAST, BRAG

Swagger according to the dictionary is a very non complimentary term. Hence my preference for quiet confidence.

I found Bravado YES!!

Definition of swagger (Entry 2 of 3)
1a: an arrogantly self-confident way of walking : an act or instance of swaggering
b: arrogant or conceitedly self-assured behavior
c: ostentatious display or bravado
2: bold or brash self-confidence

The third form may be one that you Yikes Vikes will like a little better, but to me it still isn't good.

swagger adjective
Definition of swagger (Entry 3 of 3)
: marked by elegance or showiness : POSH

Swagger has also been incorporated into a slang term and that I assure you is the way Jefferson is using it and the way most people under 40 use it today.

I don't want to quibble over slang vs. Webster's etc. My point is when someone like John Wayne in the movies walked into a room he didn't have to say a damn thing, people knew to take him seriously and to listen to what he was saying or directing others to do.

Cousins doesn't give me even an inkling of that sort of vibe. Cousins is a guy that willingly goes into battle without complaining but really doesn't lead others into battle. He just doesn't give off a "leader of men" vibe in my humble opinion.