Chiefs post game

[VikingLord]

But I do have to ask how you can be a fan of this team and not be "perpetually pessimistic"

I'm optimistic, and I've been a fan for longer than 95% of the people on this board.

My question is simple. Why does it matter to you what I am?

My answer to you is equally simple. It doesn't.

It was a rhetorical question.

[J. Kapp 11]

I'm optimistic, and I've been a fan for longer than 95% of the people on this board.

My question is simple. Why does it matter to you what I am?

My answer to you is equally simple. It doesn't.

It was a rhetorical question.

For a rhetorical question, you gave about a 1,000-word explanation.

Look, I get it. This team has ripped our hearts out over the years. But I go back to the same thing I said two years ago when it was all over. The Vikings gave me 18 weeks of joy that year. The journey was incredible. God, that was fun. We had a journeyman quarterback whose own coach didn't even really believe in him. Yet the team rose to the occasion at every turn ... except for the NFC Championship game, of course. Yeah, that sucked. But the journey ... that matters a lot to me. I mean, I remember when Thielen broke off that big TD reception against the Rams. I don't think I've ever been happier as a Vikings fan. This year, tell me the Detroit game wasn't fun. Tell me the bombs against Philly weren't fun.

That's what I live for. If all I ever thought about was winning the Super Bowl, I'd have given up a long time ago. I've been through too much in 51 years of being a fan. For me, it's about looking forward to the good times.

[VikingLord]

But the journey ... that matters a lot to me. I mean, I remember when Thielen broke off that big TD reception against the Rams. I don't think I've ever been happier as a Vikings fan. This year, tell me the Detroit game wasn't fun. Tell me the bombs against Philly weren't fun.

That's what I live for. If all I ever thought about was winning the Super Bowl, I'd have given up a long time ago. I've been through too much in 51 years of being a fan. For me, it's about looking forward to the good times.

The journey is great sometimes, heart-wrenching at other times. Always memorable.

But...

Fans of almost every other team in the NFL have watched their team win at least one Superbowl. They've gotten the journey along with the ultimate payoff too.

Why can't we Vikings fans have both too?

The way I look at it, and I know this isn't healthy, but at this point, I don't care anymore - this team *owes* us now. The long-suffering fans of this team, the ones who keep filling that stadium, chanting SKOL, the ones who braved the frigid confines of the old Met, the sterile confines of the Metrodome, the ones who sit dutifully on their couches or on a bar stool every Sunday watching this team and supporting it. Those people, like you and me, *deserve* a Superbowl win. Not an appearance. A WIN.

I want so much to be optimistic, and to be completely honest I don't get as upset as I used to when they lose. But what upsets me now is this team is supposed to be good. They're supposed to be stacked. They're supposed to be in the Superbowl conversation. And they're not. You watch any of the cable sports shows and the Vikings simply are not mentioned as contenders, at least not with any seriousness. The 49ers are. The Seahawks get mentioned. The Packers of course. Not the Vikings. Not really. It's like everyone who follows football who isn't a fan of the team just inherently understands they don't have what it takes. Not at QB. Not defensively. Not on the coaching staff. I want to believe in them, but watching the game yesterday, as much as I want to keep my eyes closed to what everyone who is not a Vikings fan sees, if I'm honest I see the same fatal flaws that keep Zimmer's Vikings from being taken seriously. They'll be underdogs in every game they have remaining against an opponent with a winning record. And they should be as they've earned that level of respect.

So yeah, enjoying the ride is important. Enjoying the great moments and building some character from the not-so-great moments is important. But there is nothing saying we have to perpetually eat the scraps that fall to the floor while the fans of virtually every other team in the league have gotten to eat sitting at the table.

I want a Superbowl before I die. They owe us that.

[ERIK the PURPLE]

I’m almost 62 and have suffered for far too many years. The Bob Lee/Gary Couzzo loss to Dallas in ‘71. The highly anticipated ‘72 season with Tark that ended 7-7. The 3 Super Bowl losses after that. The Staubach Hail Mary. Hell, That’s just the 70’s.

I hate it when I watch the Vikings and feel like I could make better decisions than Zim, but it seems to happen a lot. I don’t pretend to know the X’s and O’s but I feel I’m better at game management decisions. I agree he doesn’t bring pressure until it’s too late which pisses me off. I was screaming when he decided to go for 4th down near the end of the half instead of kicking the tying field goal. WTF? The whole half had been a cluster and he decides to go for it. Lucky we still got the FG.

For some strange reason, I believe we beat Dallas.We’ll beat Denver. But we’re definitely losing to Seattle. Under Zim, we’re usually awful after a bye. 10-6 or 11-5. I like our chances at USBank but unfortunately we’ll be on the road in the playoffs which means another playoff loss. I wish I wasn’t so emotionally invested in this team.

[ERIK the PURPLE]

Getting back to play calling, Cousins needs to man up and shake off the dumber plays that are called like Rogers does. I mean, what’s Zim gonna do? Put in Mannion? Man up, move the sticks at all cost, and dump to Cook 20 times a game. At least that can’t be stopped.

[Bowhunting Viking]

Ok I will add my story to this before work. Like many of you I'm an older generation fan, a like I said before i just turned 55.
So i dont remember the SB loss to the Cheifs , with 64 toss power trap and matriculating down th me field.
But I remember every other SB loss, and remember crying as a young kid.
Championship games. Pearson pushed off Wright so we got screwed there. I dont even have to go into detail about the Pete Morelli screw job in N.O. I have changes as an older man now. In my younger days I would fight anyone, anywhere at the drop of a hat. Now I am a peaceful man. Growing up, having a beautiful wife and daughter will do that. But I swear if I would ever run into Pete Morelli somewhere, I may possibly wanna throw 1 more punch! Lol.
I truly feel the 98 team was our best chance. We got cute right at halftime when we fumbled and Falcons scored. We were a much better team than them. Then Gary missed the 1st kick of yr. Doomed again. I KNOW we woulda beat the Broncos.
Wont revisit the Saints game. Favre ankle and leg was too beat up that I doubt he woulda been effective against the Colts.
The worst for me was a few yrs ago when Keenun was at the helmet and we were making the magical run.
You see, a week before the playoffs my mom had a massive brain bleed stroke. So my family was at the hospital from morning till night for weeks. We kept winning and I was wearing all my Vikings gear every day. Hospital workers, other patients etc stated noticing my dad and I wearing outer stuff and we started making alot of friends who were supporting us, and so many started actually rooting for the Vikes because of our situation. My dad would make me leave the hospital for the games to just get away.
When the Minneapolis Miracle happened I truly thought that it was a sign that with all we were going through as a family, and all the years of heartbreak, that our fanbase was finally gonna get that ring.. and make history doing it in our house.
Then we went to Philadelphia. I swear to you , no lie, that next day I had nurses, therapist, cafeteria workers and other patients families coming up and consoling me . Many had tears in their eyes. One older lady who drew blood on mom said she got on her knees and prayed that the Vikings would win and go to win the SB for the family the staff had grown close to.
So to say that I really have grown tired of the constant disappointment that we endure as Viking fans, yes I am.
Way too many times we have the teams to get it done, and something always goes wrong.
I truly want a SB win before I die. I'm 55, but I've had 2 heart attacks . 1 at 25 and the other at 41. So I dont know how many more chances I have.

[Dames]

This thread went all emo on us. I kid guys. I get it

Just for the record, I'm NOT okay with a perennial 1-and-done in the playoffs. I don't know any fan that is. That said, I would rather we get to the playoffs every chance we get, because the odds are one of these times we will strike lightning. And the alternative (missing out) sucks much worse. So, sure, I'd love us to have an elite team that wins it all. But, you know what? The elite teams don't always win the SB. It's often just the hottest team at the end of the year.

This year's team has plenty of scars, no doubt... but we also have a lot of talent. There's no reason we don't have a legit shot to win it all. We need some things to break our way, like most SB winners. One of these times it will. I just hope it happens sooner than later.

Like Kapp, I'm very much on the "enjoy the journey" kick. Trust me, for most of my life as a fan, that has not been the case. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop. For me, given the 2 options, taking the "enjoy the journey" path is a vastly better experience. I'm not blissfully ignorant during the games, and I get pessimistic and upset like the rest of you... but afterwards, I can refocus... and it's not ruining my week. (It used to. I know a lot of you understand that.) It allows me to enjoy the season as a whole too.

I'm not trying to sell you guys on this. If someone would have suggested this to me even 5 years ago, I would have told them to get away from me with their "feel good" crap. I would have thought that they just weren't as dedicated of a fan as I was. I assure you... that's not the case with me.

[StumpHunter]

I have a really hard time enjoying the journey and living in the moment as a Vikings fan. 98 and 09 just killed the part of me that could do that, and so I am always looking towards the future.

[Pondering Her Percy]

lol and here come the overreactions following a loss.......

Prove me wrong.

I mean he did beat Philly this year and they are a winning team. As for KC, he was the only reason we were in that game. I dont know how else I can prove you wrong when it comes to which future games we win/lose until those games are actually played....

[Pondering Her Percy]

Dallas lost to the Jets. GB just got whooped by the Chargers. Seattle nearly lost to Cincy and Tampa at home this year. Your negative attitude is depressing....

I have been one of the most positive people in this thread, just not about your guy.

Lol well unfortunately there are multiple threads on this board....

[Pondering Her Percy]

Cousins didn’t have any turnovers. If anything he was inaccurate today which doesn’t happen often. If it wasn’t for him we would have been blown out. But when do the Vikings lose and nobody blames cousins for the loss? It literally never happens

I was at the game and I can tell you he was more than just off, some of his passes were a 3 feet over the intended receiver, many times he was behind the receiver or threw at their feet. My brother-in-law who I was at the game with said he didn't know Cousins was that bad, I said usually he is very accurate but was completely off during that game. The officiating was complete garbage for both teams, was horrible!

Again, he was inaccurate but he was also the reason why we had a shot in that game. So the finger pointing at him should be a lot further down the list than some are projecting. Anytime something goes wrong, there are fans that think it's mainly Cousins. Which is so far from the truth it's not even funny. This defense is nowhere near the 2017 defense anymore, Zimmer has turned into an overly conservative coach, this OL is still shows it's signs of being terrible and so on. No reason they shouldnt be a playoff team still but Zim needs to figure this out. Especially his defense. They are still "good" but they are struggling to step up when we need them most. We're 7th in total defense and 8th in total offense. There should be no reason we arent in the playoffs. Get the team right and handle Dallas

[Pondering Her Percy]

You are predicting a worst-case scenario of a 10-6 record and a WC game, and that's disappointing? I would have loved 10-6 last year. Of course I get it, I want to win the whole damn thing too, but I'd be glad to get back to playoffs after barely missing last year. That sucked much worse than losing in the playoffs, IMO. Your mileage may vary.

I get your point about the QB. I want them to draft a QB and groom him. I hate the way it's been handled since Rick got here. But, I'm not holding my breath. I guess that sums up what you are saying I suppose.

We're already 6-3, so we have basically no shot of getting a good draft pick... so we may as well enjoy the season this year. Maybe we'll strike lightning at the right time. A guy can dream.

10-6 and a wildcard round playoff loss for what? For a team that has as much invested into this roster, stadium, coaching staff, etc, that can be considered nothing short of a colossal failure.

But it's worse than just a colossal failure, because at 10-6 the team isn't going to be in a position to draft a great QB prospect. They could still get lucky and find one in the latter rounds, sure, but they almost assuredly won't have a shot at one of the better prospects unless one of those prospects has other significant off-field issues that cause him to drop.

I do agree with you about the blowout predictions. I don't think the Vikings are going to get blown out by anyone this year. The games will be close, all of them, including against the Broncos. Heck, I could see the Vikings being ahead late in all of them. I just think when the chips are down and they need even one of the offense, defense, or special teams to show up, one, or all, of those units will blow it. I have zero confidence in all of them in critical, must-have situations. The team needs a 1st down to drain the clock? 3-and-out. The team needs a key stop on defense? 1st down, probably off some short throw and run or even a simple "everyone knows whats coming" run. You need a good solid punt? Shank. You need that chip-shot field goal? Miss.

Yeah, I can see them losing by another late field goal to the Cowboys. I think they'll beat the Broncos, although it's going to be a low-scoring, kind of ugly win ala what they got against the Redskins. And then I fully expect Russell Wilson to beat them on a late miracle throw scramble to top off this 4-game stretch.

After that, they'll return home for 3 of the last 4, and I think they'll win all 3 of those while losing at a Chargers team making a late season run.

The Patriots drafted Jimmy G in round 2. Russell Wilson was drafted in the 3rd. Cousins was drafted in the 4th. Dalton in the 2nd. Prescott in the 4th. Like just because we dont have a high pick doesnt mean we cant find a competent QB of the future. No less top pick QBs have been just as much hit or miss lately.

But either way I guess I dont get where you're coming from here?? Like what are we suppose to do? By the sounds of it, the only way you're happy is if we either win a SB or we tank and get a top pick. If only the NFL worked that way? Or are we suppose to say "shoot we just lost to KC on the road, must mean our season is over, lets shut everyone down and tank for a top pick"? This is what I mean when I say, we lose one game and the overreactions start. Whether you're the worst team or the best team in the NFL, you go out there every day and compete. You can only do so much to "tank" which I dont even believe teams actually do. You sound like a little kid and think the Vikings should just quit when something goes wrong. If we quit after the Chicago game, we wouldnt be in position for a playoff spot right now. If we lose in the first round of the playoffs, so be it. If we win, awesome. You get what you get come draft day. You figure it out then. KC was picking at the back end of the first and traded up a mile to get Mahomes. The last thing I'm worried about right now is if we can land a "top QB prospect" or not.

[Pondering Her Percy]

We beat Denver. 17-9 or something close to that.

Lose to Dallas, Seattle and GB and win the rest assuming Chicago has given up by then.

10-6 with a first round WC loss. Just enough to keep Zimmer and Spielman employed and keep the Vikings from seriously looking at upgrading at QB in the 2020 draft.

In other words, worst case scenario.

I agree with the final record, but I think they'll win the 3 home games and lose at the Chargers.

It is the worst-case scenario, and honestly, if it happens that way, what do they do? Do they blow the whole thing up? If I'm the Wilfs and I've invested everything they've invested in this roster and the team overall, how do they not consider doing exactly that? Or do they muddle through another season of Kirk Cousins, Zimmer and Spielman, knowing full well the outcome will fall well short of a Superbowl yet again?

There is the smallest of small chances the team wakes up and goes on a tear. It's not a reasonable thing to expect, but at the same time, the raw talent is there to do it. But what it is going to take to wake this team up at this point is beyond me.

They just went on a 4 game win streak and lose one game but you're saying there is the "smallest of small chances they wake up and go on a tear"? Sorry but I dont buy that one at all.

[Pondering Her Percy]

About the defense:

6th in total yards allowed per/g
4th in total points allowed per/g
+4 turnover ratio (7th in league)
7th in INT's
12th in fumbles
6th in sacks
6th in total tackles

So I don't know if the defense really is the problem, from stats alone they are top 10 in almost every category....maybe I am missing something.

Is it bad play calling by the coach and even if so being in the top 10 doesn't seem like it.

They are a top 10 D. Not elite, but top 10.

They played the #2 offense and gave up 26 points, which was below their average, but not good. It happens, and it is the reason we felt we needed an upgrade at the QB spot after the 2017 Philly game. Even great defenses have bad games, and when that happens, you need an offense that can step up and win you one.

Sorry but that is not the "#2 offense" when Pat Mahomes is not playing. Big difference there. Our defense is having a bad game against the #2 offense. They are having a bad game against Matt Moore and the rest of the #2 offense. If we had a bad game and Mahomes was playing, you have an argument but there is no reason we should have handled Matt Moore better than we did.

[VikingLord]

The Patriots drafted Jimmy G in round 2. Russell Wilson was drafted in the 3rd. Cousins was drafted in the 4th. Dalton in the 2nd. Prescott in the 4th. Like just because we dont have a high pick doesnt mean we cant find a competent QB of the future. No less top pick QBs have been just as much hit or miss lately.

OK, I think I acknowledged that they could get a good QB later in the draft.

What I tried to say was they won't have a shot at a top prospect. I think that is a fair assessment.

By the sounds of it, the only way you're happy is if we either win a SB or we tank and get a top pick.

No, the only way I'm happy is if they win the Superbowl. Getting the top pick wouldn't make me happy, nor would it guarantee anything.

You sound like a little kid and think the Vikings should just quit when something goes wrong.

Well at least I'm not an a$$hole who thinks it is OK to insult someone for making an honest argument...

And for the record, the Vikings shouldn't quit or tank - they get paid way too much to do what they do.

If we quit after the Chicago game, we wouldnt be in position for a playoff spot right now. If we lose in the first round of the playoffs, so be it. If we win, awesome. You get what you get come draft day. You figure it out then. KC was picking at the back end of the first and traded up a mile to get Mahomes. The last thing I'm worried about right now is if we can land a "top QB prospect" or not.

I think the point Stumphunter was trying to make, and I was agreeing with, is that a middling finish guarantees two things:

- A middling draft pick which in turn puts them into a portion of the first round where the *top* QB prospects will be gone sans an aggressive (and potentially risky) move up
- It increases the likelihood that no major changes or shakeups to the organizational structure get made in the offseason if one believes such changes are necessary to raise the ceiling of the team beyond 1st-round playoff loss. It's far more likely the Wilfs hold the course because they are oh-so-close.

Now, you don't have to agree with me (I won't speak for Stump), but I would appreciate it if you would respect my position and debate it on the merits.