The sack fumble was indeed terrible blocking, but it was not a blind side hit and Cousins should have held onto the ball. That kind of immediate pressure was not the norm Sunday though. He had time to throw, but much like has done his entire career, he held the ball too long. Most Olines would give up pressure with a pocket passing QB who holds the ball that long.
So is Kirk holding the ball too long leading to more pressures? Maybe - but I didn't see him holding too long on Sunday. Or is the line allowing pressure right away and knocking Kirk off his marks and holding too long? That seems more accurate from what I saw Sunday.
Maybe both are inaccurate because we kept running that stupid play action bootleg that the Packers didn't fall for once so Kirk held the ball longer on those because the play was designed for that and the defender provided pressure, again, because the play was designed like that?
Holding the ball too long does indeed lead to pressure. Being pressured can lead to longer times to throw as well, but not with immobile QBs like Cousins. Wilson will scramble around for 6 seconds while trying to find space to throw after his awful line allows immediate pressure. We saw Rodgers do that against us and we saw a longer time to throw because of it Sunday. Cousins isn't capable of that.
Yes, bootlegs and PA would contribute a little to Cousins taking longer to throw, but he did not do that on the majority of his pass attempts and again, he took over a full second longer to throw than the shortest time to throw Sunday. A pure pocket passer should have the ball out in under 2.5 seconds on average, he took 3.28.
CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:09 am
From what I seen Rodgers, who did get some pressure once the Pack had us buried, had all day to throw. Even he couldn't believe it. He was standing there tapping the ball shuffling his feet and looking all over for a guy. Cousins strip he had heat on him from back and front. The entire thing was collapsing. I didn't see one time were he had the time Rodgers had. But we had the better pass blocking. I don't know what people are seeing. Not once did Cousins stand there and have as much time needed to survey the field with nothing around him. That's another reason throwing was a horrible idea at the end. We couldn't pass block. That goes on the stupid OC we have. But it's too late at this point. We have a #### hole for an OC.
I mean I think you're being a little harsh on Stefanski here but I agree with the whole Rodgers thing. Somehow he had "less time to throw" than Cousins. That makes zero sense. And one thing I could see escalating that number for Cousins is that he ran how many designed roll-outs? 4 or 5? The announcers even mentioned it. Those take all of 4-6 seconds before you throw the ball.
Stefanski is a joke. Even the announcers couldn't believe we threw the ball. I couldn't believe it. The Pack couldn't stop Cook. So I would imagine they were just playing the pass. He played right to them. Cousins was having a hard time completing anything. He was out of sync big time. Why let him "make the play" when he was incapable of doing it at that point. This Stefanski has no idea what he's doing. I thought we were a running team. We were pounding the ball easy. He thinks that's not good enough and decides to get pass happy. That's an idiot. I don't care about anything else. Cousins, isn't Rodgers, he's not good enough to get into a pass happy deal especially when our OL was not pass blocking well enough IMO. That's the finale straw for me. The thought process just isn't there. I also feel that's why Cousins looked like he had no idea what was going on. It's like he never seen a football field. So this joke OC is doing other stupid BS behind the scenes. Maybe he's trying to make the fans happy. Winning will make me happy. Even if it means not throwing a pass again.
CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:09 am
From what I seen Rodgers, who did get some pressure once the Pack had us buried, had all day to throw. Even he couldn't believe it. He was standing there tapping the ball shuffling his feet and looking all over for a guy. Cousins strip he had heat on him from back and front. The entire thing was collapsing. I didn't see one time were he had the time Rodgers had. But we had the better pass blocking. I don't know what people are seeing. Not once did Cousins stand there and have as much time needed to survey the field with nothing around him. That's another reason throwing was a horrible idea at the end. We couldn't pass block. That goes on the stupid OC we have. But it's too late at this point. We have a #### hole for an OC.
I mean I think you're being a little harsh on Stefanski here but I agree with the whole Rodgers thing. Somehow he had "less time to throw" than Cousins. That makes zero sense. And one thing I could see escalating that number for Cousins is that he ran how many designed roll-outs? 4 or 5? The announcers even mentioned it. Those take all of 4-6 seconds before you throw the ball.
Rodgers didn't have less time to throw, he took less time to throw.
You can argue cold hard facts all you want, but your perception is wrong. Cousins took longer than any QB in the NFL in week 2 to throw the football and was pressured more in large part, because he took so long.
Alaskan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:44 pm
Why didn’t cousins check out of it is another question? I heard him say in an post game interview when someone asked him that he didn’t want to go against the playcaller.....or something to that effect. What a joke of a leader that is. He’s got the final say right there at the line of scrimmage.
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:58 am
Stump are you seriously trying to critique what cousins did wrong on a play like that? Arguably one of the worst attempted pass blocks I’ve seen by an OL. How about just stop and be like “yeah dude, that was on the OL”.
And sorry but you’re wrong. Kenny Clark is not the first to cousins. The image below shows that Rudolph’s guy was there well before Clark was (I apologize I thought it was reiff on the blind but it was Rudy). Pay close attention to what cousins does. Rudy’s guy caused cousins to have to step up and cousins knew Z’darius Smith was coming for his throwing arm. So in turn, cousins brought the ball back in front of his body right towards Clark to avoid getting strip sacked by smith. In turn cousins then gets hit by Clark and a free rusher the second he attempts to avoid Smith. Reiff and O’Neill actually held up. But we have 3 guys on the ground as cousins is getting demolished (Dozier, Kline and Bradbury), Cook is blocking nobody and Rudy got toasted. Cook completely missed the free rusher because Rudy got beat so fast. It was a delayed blitz.
Cousins would have literally had to shove this ball down his pants to not get stripped. He had guys coming at him from every direction. He either pulls it back to throw and gets strip sacked by Smith it pulls it in front of him to avoid Smith and get strip sacks by Clark. No less this all happened the second he hit his SEVEN step drop from under center. This is EXACTLY why I don’t like this constant under center crap. The same thing happened vs Atlanta. The guy is gonna get killed.
Like we get it you aren’t a Kirk cousins fan. But every time something goes wrong, I can tell you that it’s not always Kirk cousins that did wrong. Anyone with a brain can look at that play and say how disgusting it was on the OLs part. If guys are going to complain about cousins there, you are clueless. This is the game of football. QBs get strip sacked week after week. Not all those strip sacks are on the QB.
Like go ahead and critique cousins, he didn’t play good at all but my god, the fact you’re trying to point the finger at him there given what that OL did, like just stop dude. Not everything is Kirk cousins fault, especially that play. Period. Put all all your little timed stats up you want. It’s not debatable. The OL was horrible on that play and there was nowhere to go given how fast it all happened and where the pressure came from. End of story
That guy touched Cousins shoulder as he was pushed out of the play. Very misleading picture PHP.
I don't blame Cousins for taking a sack in that situation, I said the Oline was terrible on that play and in fact Cook completely messed up as well it looks like, leaving Reiff to block two guys on his own. I do not blame him for taking the sack, I do blame him for having the ball a good 2 ft from his body instead of tucking it into his gut as he SEES Clark coming in at him untouched.
Idk how you think that’s a misleading picture. Smith was the initial guy that disrupted the entire play causing cousins to not pull his arm back and keep the ball in front of him. He clearly sensed the pressure from his blind side given what he did. Then that’s when Clark was right there. The guy is human, he can’t dodge Smith and react to Clark at the same time. If you’re a QB and you’re dropping back and sense a guy is breathing down your neck looking to chop down on your arm, that’s plenty distracting enough to not hone in on what’s coming that second in front of you. It all happened way to fast for some miraculous reaction to happen like you think. I could bet a good percentage of NFL QBs fumble on that particular play. If it was simply Clark coming at his face and nobody on the backside, yeah cousins should have tucked it like you said because he should be able to see Clark the whole time. Where as in this situation, his first priority was protecting the ball from Smith as it should have been. If Clark came a second or two later then that’s one thing but that wasn’t the case. I’m not sure why you don’t see or understand that.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
That guy touched Cousins shoulder as he was pushed out of the play. Very misleading picture PHP.
I don't blame Cousins for taking a sack in that situation, I said the Oline was terrible on that play and in fact Cook completely messed up as well it looks like, leaving Reiff to block two guys on his own. I do not blame him for taking the sack, I do blame him for having the ball a good 2 ft from his body instead of tucking it into his gut as he SEES Clark coming in at him untouched.
Idk how you think that’s a misleading picture. Smith was the initial guy that disrupted the entire play causing cousins to not pull his arm back and keep the ball in front of him. He clearly sensed the pressure from his blind side given what he did. Then that’s when Clark was right there. The guy is human, he can’t dodge Smith and react to Clark at the same time. If you’re a QB and you’re dropping back and sense a guy is breathing down your neck looking to chop down on your arm, that’s plenty distracting enough to not hone in on what’s coming that second in front of you. It all happened way to fast for some miraculous reaction to happen like you think. I could bet a good percentage of NFL QBs fumble on that particular play. If it was simply Clark coming at his face and nobody on the backside, yeah cousins should have tucked it like you said because he should be able to see Clark the whole time. Where as in this situation, his first priority was protecting the ball from Smith as it should have been. If Clark came a second or two later then that’s one thing but that wasn’t the case. I’m not sure why you don’t see or understand that.
He didn't need to dodge both at the same time. Smith was out of the play before Clark got to him.
All Cousins needed to do was tuck the ball instead of dangling it out in front of him as a 250 lb lineman barreled down on him. It is what QBs who don't lead the league in fumbles do 99 out of 100 times.
Idk how you think that’s a misleading picture. Smith was the initial guy that disrupted the entire play causing cousins to not pull his arm back and keep the ball in front of him. He clearly sensed the pressure from his blind side given what he did. Then that’s when Clark was right there. The guy is human, he can’t dodge Smith and react to Clark at the same time. If you’re a QB and you’re dropping back and sense a guy is breathing down your neck looking to chop down on your arm, that’s plenty distracting enough to not hone in on what’s coming that second in front of you. It all happened way to fast for some miraculous reaction to happen like you think. I could bet a good percentage of NFL QBs fumble on that particular play. If it was simply Clark coming at his face and nobody on the backside, yeah cousins should have tucked it like you said because he should be able to see Clark the whole time. Where as in this situation, his first priority was protecting the ball from Smith as it should have been. If Clark came a second or two later then that’s one thing but that wasn’t the case. I’m not sure why you don’t see or understand that.
He didn't need to dodge both at the same time. Smith was out of the play before Clark got to him.
All Cousins needed to do was tuck the ball instead of dangling it out in front of him as a 250 lb lineman barreled down on him. It is what QBs who don't lead the league in fumbles do 99 out of 100 times.
Omg dude Smith was out of the play BECAUSE Kirk stepped up in the pocket. He had to step up to put Smith out of the play! That’s his first priority is dodging him and not allowing Smith to strip sack him. Point is, when he did that our entire interior was collapsed and Clark was already through. So when you have a guy breathing down your neck FIRST, you avoid that....FIRST. Clark then got there before anything else could be done.
Like stop fighting it dude. Kirk played like crap, nobody is denying that but quit trying to find fault with every little thing he does. It’s become an obsession with you. Im starting to think you just watch these games hunting for kirks mistakes. From turning the ball over to picking his nose with the wrong finger. Like some of it is understandable but some is just not. And you do everything in your power to continue to fight it just to find satisfaction if someone agrees with you. Some battles might be worth fighting but this one is not. You’re over the top with it and like I said before, it’s turned into an obsession with you where it’s near impossible to converse back and forth
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Alaskan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:44 pm
Why didn’t cousins check out of it is another question? I heard him say in an post game interview when someone asked him that he didn’t want to go against the playcaller.....or something to that effect. What a joke of a leader that is. He’s got the final say right there at the line of scrimmage.
Well, he does work for the playcaller
Does he? I think they work together, more like co-workers. Kirk Cousins is under contract to the Minnesota Vikings for 3 years $84 million no matter what happens. The playcaller......Stefanski, makes nowhere near that amount of money. If anything, Stefanski works for Cousins. He has the power to do what he wants at the line of scrimmage. If he doesn’t, he shouldn’t be and NFL QB making $84 million dollars guaranteed!!
Idk why guys are going after Stefanski. I think he’s done a fairly good job so far. I’m just not a fan of the constant under center stuff.
Cousins made the throw. It’s 100% on him. But in regards to the loss, it’s on the team.
You can look at it and say cousins wouldn’t have had to make that throw in the first place if the defense wasn’t getting walked on early on.
You could look at it and say we would have only been down 14-0 instead of 21-0 if the entire interior OL didn’t collapse on that pass play.
You could look at it and say if cook didn’t get called for PI (which was ridiculous) it would have been 21-21.
You could look at it and say if Bailey made that initial FG we could have been up 24-21 at one point.
This is why I’m saying it’s a team game and a team loss. Cousins made mistakes, Diggs made mistakes, Bailey made mistakes, the defense made mistakes, and so on. Kirk cousins didn’t lose us this game. Guys want to say that because he threw that pick and that could have won us the game but the defense holding up could have won us the game too. Bailey could have won us the game. Thielen and Diggs not running a couple lazy routes could have won us the game. A lot of things could have won us the game. But too many guys didn’t do their job. Simple as that. No specific guy “lost” us the game. The team didn’t do their job. Period
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Does he? I think they work together, more like co-workers. Kirk Cousins is under contract to the Minnesota Vikings for 3 years $84 million no matter what happens. The playcaller......Stefanski, makes nowhere near that amount of money. If anything, Stefanski works for Cousins. He has the power to do what he wants at the line of scrimmage. If he doesn’t, he shouldn’t be and NFL QB making $84 million dollars guaranteed!!
I don't know man. And I don't pretend to know the working relationship between the two. But in general, the players do what the coaches say and run the plays they call, no matter how much money they make. I would venture to say very few QBs have the power to do whatever they want at the line of scrimmage. I mean they can do it, but it better work every time or they will be quite accountable to their boss. There aren't any coaches that have to be accountable to their QBs.
Does he? I think they work together, more like co-workers. Kirk Cousins is under contract to the Minnesota Vikings for 3 years $84 million no matter what happens. The playcaller......Stefanski, makes nowhere near that amount of money. If anything, Stefanski works for Cousins. He has the power to do what he wants at the line of scrimmage. If he doesn’t, he shouldn’t be and NFL QB making $84 million dollars guaranteed!!
I don't know man. And I don't pretend to know the working relationship between the two. But in general, the players do what the coaches say and run the plays they call, no matter how much money they make. I would venture to say very few QBs have the power to do whatever they want at the line of scrimmage. I mean they can do it, but it better work every time or they will be quite accountable to their boss. There aren't any coaches that have to be accountable to their QBs.
[/quote
I will agree. Players general do what coaches say. But I’d venture a guess that KC can check out of a play at the line of scrimmage if he sees fit. Anytime he wants.
Generally speaking I agree; Most of the time a player or employee can be held accountable by there coach or boss. In this case, I am not sure that rule of thumb applies. KC makes $84 million no matter what he does. Who can really hold him accountable? He may have to answer some questions and take some heat from Coaches, maybe the media, teammates possibly......but he still gets paid. Even if they cut him. If the organization had enough faith in KC to guarantee him $84 million no matter what he does. U would think he’ have the authority to change the play at the line of scrimmage if he sees fit. IDK, that’s just my take on the matter. We see things differently is all. No offense intended man
Some thinking Cousins had more time than Rodgers to throw are making stuff up. It's on Youtube. The highlights of the game. Rodgers 1st pass the closest viking to him is about 8 yards away. Do you know how far away that is from the action? Off to his right Viking players are on the ground. They can't even jump up to interfere with the pass.Rodgers could have ran the quarter out on that play but threw too quickly. Bad play by him. It was like a no rush practice. Our D and Zim just let him have that one. Even Rodgers was shocked. That's not winning D. That's a bad scheme. I would have made Rodgers throw it. I can't copy and paste the Youtube screen but Rodgers held the ball a long time. If Cousins held it that long, which he never did, he would have been been hit and lost the ball.
CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:37 pm
Some thinking Cousins had more time than Rodgers to throw are making stuff up. It's on Youtube. The highlights of the game. Rodgers 1st pass the closest viking to him is about 8 yards away. Do you know how far away that is from the action? Off to his right Viking players are on the ground. They can't even jump up to interfere with the pass.Rodgers could have ran the quarter out on that play but threw too quickly. Bad play by him. It was like a no rush practice. Our D and Zim just let him have that one. Even Rodgers was shocked. That's not winning D. That's a bad scheme. I would have made Rodgers throw it. I can't copy and paste the Youtube screen but Rodgers held the ball a long time. If Cousins held it that long, which he never did, he would have been been hit and lost the ball.
Rodgers took less time to throw. That is a fact and I am sorry you can't come to terms with it.
CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:37 pm
Some thinking Cousins had more time than Rodgers to throw are making stuff up. It's on Youtube. The highlights of the game. Rodgers 1st pass the closest viking to him is about 8 yards away. Do you know how far away that is from the action? Off to his right Viking players are on the ground. They can't even jump up to interfere with the pass.Rodgers could have ran the quarter out on that play but threw too quickly. Bad play by him. It was like a no rush practice. Our D and Zim just let him have that one. Even Rodgers was shocked. That's not winning D. That's a bad scheme. I would have made Rodgers throw it. I can't copy and paste the Youtube screen but Rodgers held the ball a long time. If Cousins held it that long, which he never did, he would have been been hit and lost the ball.
Rodgers took less time to throw. That is a fact and I am sorry you can't come to terms with it.
I don’t agree with it either. I think it’s a bogus stat that you’re just trying to ride in order to help your “cousins does everything wrong” argument. There were times Rodgers sat back there 6-7 seconds. Not once did cousins have that time and you know that even though you won’t ever admit it. Sorry but I don’t buy it either. The interior OL got beat up badly. That is a fact
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
Smith was out of the play BECAUSE Kirk stepped up in the pocket. He had to step up to put Smith out of the play! That’s his first priority is dodging him and not allowing Smith to strip sack him. Point is, when he did that our entire interior was collapsed and Clark was already through. So when you have a guy breathing down your neck FIRST, you avoid that....FIRST. Clark then got there before anything else could be done. 