Crucify the OC as well

[Pondering Her Percy]

When your QB is having an extremely difficult time and your OL was having a hard time pass blocking and your running the ball great I would think it's a good idea to run. So the play calling IMO was worthless. This guy wanted the 30+ PA game and he got it.

Cousins had the highest time to throw of any QB in the NFL so far this season on Sunday, and was only hit 6 times. How bad could the line have really played? Do they need to give him 4 seconds to throw, 5? How much time do we need to give the QB before we can say the line was playing well?

Where are you getting that stat?! Cousins was under pressure on 60% of his drop backs. That’s nearly unheard of. And I wouldn’t really say cousins was “holding the ball too long” that game. Especially on the sack fumble

[CharVike]

Correct.

Throwing in down-to-goal situations is riskier, bar none. It's one thing if the offense hasn't been able to run it successfully. Maybe in that situation you know there is a low chance of punching it in on the ground, but the Vikings weren't in that situation. Throwing near the goal line can work obviously, but now your chance of a negative play is higher as well. The QB could be sacked or stripped, or, as Cousins did, he could throw a pick and the drive ends with no points. Yes, he can throw a TD as well, but it's riskier than a run.

This playcall is similar to LaFluer's decision to have the Packers go for it on 4th-and-1 earlier in the game. The logical, safe play there is to attempt the field goal and take the points. But he wants to try to catch the Vikings off guard and/or put the dagger in, and his team comes away with nothing. That decision wasn't picked apart because the Packers won, but had they lost, he'd have gotten all sorts of heat for it. It's a risk-reward decision that tilted unnecessarily towards risk, and I think the decision to have Cousins throw on 1st-and-goal late was a similarly bad decision that resulted in the worst possible outcome.

On the bright side, I doubt Stefanski repeats that error again this season. I'd expect the Vikes to attempt to punch it in via the run in future down-to-goal situations unless they obviously can't get it in that way.

I had the same thoughts about the risk. It was a bonehead call by an idiot. Sorry but I can't forgive a guy for that. We are in a win now situation with a guy that is learning on the job. How dumb is that? He isn't done making stupid mistakes. This will continue all year. Plus this is what the average fan sees on TV. What bonehead #### is this guy doing behind the scenes. Maybe that's why Cousins looks like crap. He's not elite but he looked no better than a scrub QB off the street. A total bum that isn't worth anything. This is a stupid football guy that we have as an OC.

[CharVike]

Cousins had the highest time to throw of any QB in the NFL so far this season on Sunday, and was only hit 6 times. How bad could the line have really played? Do they need to give him 4 seconds to throw, 5? How much time do we need to give the QB before we can say the line was playing well?

Where are you getting that stat?! Cousins was under pressure on 60% of his drop backs. That’s nearly unheard of. And I wouldn’t really say cousins was “holding the ball too long” that game. Especially on the sack fumble

It's his stat. From what I saw Cousins was getting heat. Rodgers stood there all day at times. Nothing around him. He seemed surprised. And his protection sucked. But Cousins had all day to some people. Our OL couldn't pass block for anything. Look at the stripe. The entire pocket was collapsing. Nobody was blocking.

[YikesVikes]

Correct.

Throwing in down-to-goal situations is riskier, bar none. It's one thing if the offense hasn't been able to run it successfully. Maybe in that situation you know there is a low chance of punching it in on the ground, but the Vikings weren't in that situation. Throwing near the goal line can work obviously, but now your chance of a negative play is higher as well. The QB could be sacked or stripped, or, as Cousins did, he could throw a pick and the drive ends with no points. Yes, he can throw a TD as well, but it's riskier than a run.

This playcall is similar to LaFluer's decision to have the Packers go for it on 4th-and-1 earlier in the game. The logical, safe play there is to attempt the field goal and take the points. But he wants to try to catch the Vikings off guard and/or put the dagger in, and his team comes away with nothing. That decision wasn't picked apart because the Packers won, but had they lost, he'd have gotten all sorts of heat for it. It's a risk-reward decision that tilted unnecessarily towards risk, and I think the decision to have Cousins throw on 1st-and-goal late was a similarly bad decision that resulted in the worst possible outcome.

On the bright side, I doubt Stefanski repeats that error again this season. I'd expect the Vikes to attempt to punch it in via the run in future down-to-goal situations unless they obviously can't get it in that way.

You guys missed the problem. Calling a play action pass there was and is an ok move. The issue was that he called a play that 3 on times, yeilded him nothing and put his QB under duress in the process. Why?

[StumpHunter]

Cousins had the highest time to throw of any QB in the NFL so far this season on Sunday, and was only hit 6 times. How bad could the line have really played? Do they need to give him 4 seconds to throw, 5? How much time do we need to give the QB before we can say the line was playing well?

Where are you getting that stat?! Cousins was under pressure on 60% of his drop backs. That’s nearly unheard of. And I wouldn’t really say cousins was “holding the ball too long” that game. Especially on the sack fumble

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

The sack fumble was indeed terrible blocking, but it was not a blind side hit and Cousins should have held onto the ball. That kind of immediate pressure was not the norm Sunday though. He had time to throw, but much like has done his entire career, he held the ball too long. Most Olines would give up pressure with a pocket passing QB who holds the ball that long.

[VikingLord]

You guys missed the problem. Calling a play action pass there was and is an ok move. The issue was that he called a play that 3 on times, yeilded him nothing and put his QB under duress in the process. Why?

I'm pointing out the balance of risk-reward in that situation and from where I see it, the reward is the same for both play calls (whether Cousins rolls out or stays in the pocket), but the risk is higher for the pass play than the run play. In that situation, the OC should call a run play on first down and, if necessary, another run play on 2nd down. If 3rd down is necessary, maybe accepting higher risk to get the reward is necessary at that point.

Stefanski got cute and he paid for it. He failed to show an understanding of the situation IMHO and it cost the team every bit as much as the QB who threw the INT did.

[fiestavike]

I think the overall offensive gameplan and playcalling was just fine, except for that one play. I dont think a verbal crucifixion is warranted.

Why continue to run a play that you saw 3 other times did not work. Its clear that GB gameplanned for it. Clear.

That play is part of the running game. GB did a good job being disciplined. Bully for them! But that's part of the reason the Vikings were able to run so well on them. Its a pick your poison conundrum. Nothing about that play is on the OC.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Where are you getting that stat?! Cousins was under pressure on 60% of his drop backs. That’s nearly unheard of. And I wouldn’t really say cousins was “holding the ball too long” that game. Especially on the sack fumble

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

The sack fumble was indeed terrible blocking, but it was not a blind side hit and Cousins should have held onto the ball. That kind of immediate pressure was not the norm Sunday though. He had time to throw, but much like has done his entire career, he held the ball too long. Most Olines would give up pressure with a pocket passing QB who holds the ball that long.

I have no clue how they are calculating that stat. Because the only plays I recall cousins “holding the ball too long” on were his completion to Beebe and his couple runs where he escaped pressure. Only one of which effected any kind of passing stat. The pressure was getting to him early and often.

And as for his fumble, he wasn’t hit from the blindside? Go watch it again, he was actually hit twice on the blindside and once in the front. 3 guys had a piece of him. And no, a fumble isn’t surprising when a pocket collapses that bad and you have 3 pair of hands all over you. But maybe cousins should boof the football since you don’t think he should ever fumble. Anytime he fumbles on a sack, you say, he shouldn’t have fumbled. Dude it’s the nfl. QBs fumble. Most would in that situation. Kirk cousins will fumble again, so will every other QB in this league. I feel like Riley Reiff could completely miss his block and cousins arm gets nearly chopped off and you’d come back with one of two things: “he held the ball too long” or “he shouldn’t have fumbled”. Like be realistic man. Go watch the fumble again. 3 fricken guys all over him. That is going to happen when his OL whiffs that hard. He was hit from every angle known to man.

[CharVike]

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

The sack fumble was indeed terrible blocking, but it was not a blind side hit and Cousins should have held onto the ball. That kind of immediate pressure was not the norm Sunday though. He had time to throw, but much like has done his entire career, he held the ball too long. Most Olines would give up pressure with a pocket passing QB who holds the ball that long.

I have no clue how they are calculating that stat. Because the only plays I recall cousins “holding the ball too long” on were his completion to Beebe and his couple runs where he escaped pressure. Only one of which effected any kind of passing stat. The pressure was getting to him early and often.

And as for his fumble, he wasn’t hit from the blindside? Go watch it again, he was actually hit twice on the blindside and once in the front. 3 guys had a piece of him. And no, a fumble isn’t surprising when a pocket collapses that bad and you have 3 pair of hands all over you. But maybe cousins should boof the football since you don’t think he should ever fumble. Anytime he fumbles on a sack, you say, he shouldn’t have fumbled. Dude it’s the nfl. QBs fumble. Most would in that situation. Kirk cousins will fumble again, so will every other QB in this league. I feel like Riley Reiff could completely miss his block and cousins arm gets nearly chopped off and you’d come back with one of two things: “he held the ball too long” or “he shouldn’t have fumbled”. Like be realistic man. Go watch the fumble again. 3 fricken guys all over him. That is going to happen when his OL whiffs that hard. He was hit from every angle known to man.

From what I seen Rodgers, who did get some pressure once the Pack had us buried, had all day to throw. Even he couldn't believe it. He was standing there tapping the ball shuffling his feet and looking all over for a guy. Cousins strip he had heat on him from back and front. The entire thing was collapsing. I didn't see one time were he had the time Rodgers had. But we had the better pass blocking. I don't know what people are seeing. Not once did Cousins stand there and have as much time needed to survey the field with nothing around him. That's another reason throwing was a horrible idea at the end. We couldn't pass block. That goes on the stupid OC we have. But it's too late at this point. We have a #### hole for an OC.

[StumpHunter]

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

The sack fumble was indeed terrible blocking, but it was not a blind side hit and Cousins should have held onto the ball. That kind of immediate pressure was not the norm Sunday though. He had time to throw, but much like has done his entire career, he held the ball too long. Most Olines would give up pressure with a pocket passing QB who holds the ball that long.

I have no clue how they are calculating that stat. Because the only plays I recall cousins “holding the ball too long” on were his completion to Beebe and his couple runs where he escaped pressure. Only one of which effected any kind of passing stat. The pressure was getting to him early and often.

And as for his fumble, he wasn’t hit from the blindside? Go watch it again, he was actually hit twice on the blindside and once in the front. 3 guys had a piece of him. And no, a fumble isn’t surprising when a pocket collapses that bad and you have 3 pair of hands all over you. But maybe cousins should boof the football since you don’t think he should ever fumble. Anytime he fumbles on a sack, you say, he shouldn’t have fumbled. Dude it’s the nfl. QBs fumble. Most would in that situation. Kirk cousins will fumble again, so will every other QB in this league. I feel like Riley Reiff could completely miss his block and cousins arm gets nearly chopped off and you’d come back with one of two things: “he held the ball too long” or “he shouldn’t have fumbled”. Like be realistic man. Go watch the fumble again. 3 fricken guys all over him. That is going to happen when his OL whiffs that hard. He was hit from every angle known to man.

It is the time from snap to throw/sack/run past the los. It is the bare minimum a QB had to throw the football, not the maximum, just to be clear.

There were not three players involved in that forced fumble. Clark, the guy who hit Cousins first and who Cousins saw coming, knocks the ball lose with his right and then finishes it off as he reached around behind Cousins with his left. As he is doing that, and as the ball is already coming out, another defender grabs Cousins around his waste from behind.

Reif's guy then comes in after Cousins is already down and the ball was well away from him. If that guy was his responsibility, Reiff did a nice job blocking on that play.

[StumpHunter]

I have no clue how they are calculating that stat. Because the only plays I recall cousins “holding the ball too long” on were his completion to Beebe and his couple runs where he escaped pressure. Only one of which effected any kind of passing stat. The pressure was getting to him early and often.

And as for his fumble, he wasn’t hit from the blindside? Go watch it again, he was actually hit twice on the blindside and once in the front. 3 guys had a piece of him. And no, a fumble isn’t surprising when a pocket collapses that bad and you have 3 pair of hands all over you. But maybe cousins should boof the football since you don’t think he should ever fumble. Anytime he fumbles on a sack, you say, he shouldn’t have fumbled. Dude it’s the nfl. QBs fumble. Most would in that situation. Kirk cousins will fumble again, so will every other QB in this league. I feel like Riley Reiff could completely miss his block and cousins arm gets nearly chopped off and you’d come back with one of two things: “he held the ball too long” or “he shouldn’t have fumbled”. Like be realistic man. Go watch the fumble again. 3 fricken guys all over him. That is going to happen when his OL whiffs that hard. He was hit from every angle known to man.

From what I seen Rodgers, who did get some pressure once the Pack had us buried, had all day to throw. Even he couldn't believe it. He was standing there tapping the ball shuffling his feet and looking all over for a guy. Cousins strip he had heat on him from back and front. The entire thing was collapsing. I didn't see one time were he had the time Rodgers had. But we had the better pass blocking. I don't know what people are seeing. Not once did Cousins stand there and have as much time needed to survey the field with nothing around him. That's another reason throwing was a horrible idea at the end. We couldn't pass block. That goes on the stupid OC we have. But it's too late at this point. We have a #### hole for an OC.

Funny you can see Rodgers had a lot of time to throw in that game at times, but not Cousins. They were 1 and 2 in time to throw Sunday.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I have no clue how they are calculating that stat. Because the only plays I recall cousins “holding the ball too long” on were his completion to Beebe and his couple runs where he escaped pressure. Only one of which effected any kind of passing stat. The pressure was getting to him early and often.

And as for his fumble, he wasn’t hit from the blindside? Go watch it again, he was actually hit twice on the blindside and once in the front. 3 guys had a piece of him. And no, a fumble isn’t surprising when a pocket collapses that bad and you have 3 pair of hands all over you. But maybe cousins should boof the football since you don’t think he should ever fumble. Anytime he fumbles on a sack, you say, he shouldn’t have fumbled. Dude it’s the nfl. QBs fumble. Most would in that situation. Kirk cousins will fumble again, so will every other QB in this league. I feel like Riley Reiff could completely miss his block and cousins arm gets nearly chopped off and you’d come back with one of two things: “he held the ball too long” or “he shouldn’t have fumbled”. Like be realistic man. Go watch the fumble again. 3 fricken guys all over him. That is going to happen when his OL whiffs that hard. He was hit from every angle known to man.

From what I seen Rodgers, who did get some pressure once the Pack had us buried, had all day to throw. Even he couldn't believe it. He was standing there tapping the ball shuffling his feet and looking all over for a guy. Cousins strip he had heat on him from back and front. The entire thing was collapsing. I didn't see one time were he had the time Rodgers had. But we had the better pass blocking. I don't know what people are seeing. Not once did Cousins stand there and have as much time needed to survey the field with nothing around him. That's another reason throwing was a horrible idea at the end. We couldn't pass block. That goes on the stupid OC we have. But it's too late at this point. We have a #### hole for an OC.

I mean I think you're being a little harsh on Stefanski here but I agree with the whole Rodgers thing. Somehow he had "less time to throw" than Cousins. That makes zero sense. And one thing I could see escalating that number for Cousins is that he ran how many designed roll-outs? 4 or 5? The announcers even mentioned it. Those take all of 4-6 seconds before you throw the ball.

[TSonn]

Where are you getting that stat?! Cousins was under pressure on 60% of his drop backs. That’s nearly unheard of. And I wouldn’t really say cousins was “holding the ball too long” that game. Especially on the sack fumble

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

The sack fumble was indeed terrible blocking, but it was not a blind side hit and Cousins should have held onto the ball. That kind of immediate pressure was not the norm Sunday though. He had time to throw, but much like has done his entire career, he held the ball too long. Most Olines would give up pressure with a pocket passing QB who holds the ball that long.

Those next gen stats are interesting especially because we've got the worst ranked offensive line in terms of pressure rating: https://twitter.com/scottbarrettdfb/sta ... 45280?s=21.

So is Kirk holding the ball too long leading to more pressures? Maybe - but I didn't see him holding too long on Sunday. Or is the line allowing pressure right away and knocking Kirk off his marks and holding too long? That seems more accurate from what I saw Sunday.

Maybe both are inaccurate because we kept running that stupid play action bootleg that the Packers didn't fall for once so Kirk held the ball longer on those because the play was designed for that and the defender provided pressure, again, because the play was designed like that?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Stump are you seriously trying to critique what cousins did wrong on a play like that? Arguably one of the worst attempted pass blocks I’ve seen by an OL. How about just stop and be like “yeah dude, that was on the OL”.

And sorry but you’re wrong. Kenny Clark is not the first to cousins. The image below shows that Rudolph’s guy was there well before Clark was (I apologize I thought it was reiff on the blind but it was Rudy). Pay close attention to what cousins does. Rudy’s guy caused cousins to have to step up and cousins knew Z’darius Smith was coming for his throwing arm. So in turn, cousins brought the ball back in front of his body right towards Clark to avoid getting strip sacked by smith. In turn cousins then gets hit by Clark and a free rusher the second he attempts to avoid Smith. Reiff and O’Neill actually held up. But we have 3 guys on the ground as cousins is getting demolished (Dozier, Kline and Bradbury), Cook is blocking nobody and Rudy got toasted. Cook completely missed the free rusher because Rudy got beat so fast. It was a delayed blitz. Cousins should have been killed by Smith and did a good job stepping up but with 3 lineman on the ground there was nowhere to go

Cousins would have literally had to shove this ball down his pants to not get stripped. He had guys coming at him from every direction. He either pulls it back to throw and gets strip sacked by Smith or pulls it in front of him to avoid Smith and get strip sacked by Clark. No less this all happened the second he hit his SEVEN step drop from under center. This is EXACTLY why I don’t like this constant under center crap. The same thing happened vs Atlanta. The guy is gonna get killed.

Like we get it you aren’t a Kirk cousins fan. But every time something goes wrong, I can tell you that it’s not always Kirk cousins that did wrong. Anyone with a brain can look at that play and say how disgusting it was on the OLs part. If guys are going to complain about cousins there, you are clueless. This is the game of football. QBs get strip sacked week after week. Not all those strip sacks are on the QB.

Like go ahead and critique cousins, he didn’t play good at all but my god, the fact you’re trying to point the finger at him there given what that OL did, like just stop dude. Not everything is Kirk cousins fault, especially that play. Period. Put all all your little timed stats up you want. It’s not debatable. The OL was horrible on that play and there was nowhere to go given how fast it all happened and where the pressure came from. End of story

[StumpHunter]

Stump are you seriously trying to critique what cousins did wrong on a play like that? Arguably one of the worst attempted pass blocks I’ve seen by an OL. How about just stop and be like “yeah dude, that was on the OL”.

And sorry but you’re wrong. Kenny Clark is not the first to cousins. The image below shows that Rudolph’s guy was there well before Clark was (I apologize I thought it was reiff on the blind but it was Rudy). Pay close attention to what cousins does. Rudy’s guy caused cousins to have to step up and cousins knew Z’darius Smith was coming for his throwing arm. So in turn, cousins brought the ball back in front of his body right towards Clark to avoid getting strip sacked by smith. In turn cousins then gets hit by Clark and a free rusher the second he attempts to avoid Smith. Reiff and O’Neill actually held up. But we have 3 guys on the ground as cousins is getting demolished (Dozier, Kline and Bradbury), Cook is blocking nobody and Rudy got toasted. Cook completely missed the free rusher because Rudy got beat so fast. It was a delayed blitz.

Cousins would have literally had to shove this ball down his pants to not get stripped. He had guys coming at him from every direction. He either pulls it back to throw and gets strip sacked by Smith it pulls it in front of him to avoid Smith and get strip sacks by Clark. No less this all happened the second he hit his SEVEN step drop from under center. This is EXACTLY why I don’t like this constant under center crap. The same thing happened vs Atlanta. The guy is gonna get killed.

Like we get it you aren’t a Kirk cousins fan. But every time something goes wrong, I can tell you that it’s not always Kirk cousins that did wrong. Anyone with a brain can look at that play and say how disgusting it was on the OLs part. If guys are going to complain about cousins there, you are clueless. This is the game of football. QBs get strip sacked week after week. Not all those strip sacks are on the QB.

Like go ahead and critique cousins, he didn’t play good at all but my god, the fact you’re trying to point the finger at him there given what that OL did, like just stop dude. Not everything is Kirk cousins fault, especially that play. Period. Put all all your little timed stats up you want. It’s not debatable. The OL was horrible on that play and there was nowhere to go given how fast it all happened and where the pressure came from. End of story

That guy touched Cousins shoulder as he was pushed out of the play. Very misleading picture PHP.

I don't blame Cousins for taking a sack in that situation, I said the Oline was terrible on that play and in fact Cook completely messed up as well it looks like, leaving Reiff to block two guys on his own. I do not blame him for taking the sack, I do blame him for having the ball a good 2 ft from his body instead of tucking it into his gut as he SEES Clark coming in at him untouched.