Panthers @ VIkings Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 6

[Just Me]

Realistic or not, as the head coach, it's the only attitude he can take. Let's just hope that football is a lot better than what they played today.

Amen!

[maembe]

Darren Wolfson @DarrenWolfson

Talked to Robinson on the field. It was man coverage on the long TD he gave up. In other words, why he stopped is a mystery. #vikings

Wow, so he just got beat so bad that we assumed there was some sort of confusion on what defense they were running.

[yezzir]

Wow, so he just got beat so bad that we assumed there was some sort of confusion on what defense they were running.

Basically, during the play Robinson went then

[yezzir]

That was disgraceful. How does a team coming off a BYE, at home, against a below average team, wanting to win one for their best player after a tragedy not show up like that? Yes the defense has been bad all year but the offense no showed as well.

I blame Frazier. I really want to like him cause he's a nice guy and all but he just doesn't have what it takes to be a HC it looks like (still better than Chilly though, I don't care what anyone tries to tell me).

Josh Robinson makes me long for Karl Paymah. I had hopes for him but he looks worse than fellow 3rd rounder Marcus McCauley and Asher Allen, which is tough to do. If Rhodes and Smith are out, God help us all.

Complete and utter no show in all 3 phases.

Freeman should start next week even if he can't spell Playbook.

Agree all the way.

[yezzir]

Darren Wolfson @DarrenWolfson

I know. Covering for Josh? Josh's words: "We knew it was man..." RT @parsons_VC @DarrenWolfson Strange, Leslie in presser said it was zone.

[Reignman]

I do not think that he is saying that Olsen will be a deciding factor BUT he needs to be covered or he will make a difference.
17 point loss at home Man you have zero faith

Looks like he nailed it, and your faith is now 1-4. I hope you kept a receipt for that faith, it might be defective xD.

[Reignman]

Because a really big portion of the fan base put all the blame for the losing on him, and now that he knows he's on the way out, he's watching them eat crow. That's why.

We're all human. If people in your company blamed you for all their problems, then replaced you with someone just as incompetent and the product was worse, you too would laugh your butt off.

Well 1st, nobody put ALL the blame on Ponder for any loss. We're all aware the defense blows too. 2nd, how does Cassels suckage absolve Ponder of anything? One eats crow when one is proven wrong and Ponder hasn't proven anyone wrong, he still sucks. And 3rd, you admit Ponder is incompetent but you keep defending him, and then you say people who have been calling him incompetent for over a year need to eat crow?

^^ This...replace the coaching staff with people who are aggressive, innovative tacticians; who are expert teachers of the game and its fundamentals. A great coaching mind can fix Ponder's issues. Now, if Freeman steps in next week or the week after and really lights it up, great, I'll be as excited as anyone!

Really? You believe Ponders problems are merely bad coaching? Do you watch the games? Musgraves plays call for Ponder to miss his receivers by 5-10 yards, throw behind them, throw late, or to throw high arching rainbows? You don't think Frazier/Musgrave have been telling him to stop doing these things? Maybe someone else telling him not to do these things will work better?

[Raptorman]

What I am wondering is were are all the Cassel sucks threads? After all if the first 3 losses were all Ponder fault, so this has to be Cassel's fault. After all the Offense didn't score enough points to win.

[mondry]

What I am wondering is were are all the Cassel sucks threads? After all if the first 3 losses were all Ponder fault, so this has to be Cassel's fault. After all the Offense didn't score enough points to win.

0/10, very bad troll job.

Cassel wasn't drafted #12 overall, he wasn't anointed the starter with zero competition, he hasn't been named THE guy or the future of our franchise, we haven't put all our eggs in his basket. He's there to be the back up, that's all. In that role he'll win some and he'll lose some, whatever. Expectations, man.

[King James]

0/10, very bad troll job.

Cassel wasn't drafted #12 overall, he wasn't anointed the starter with zero competition, he hasn't been named THE guy or the future of our franchise, we haven't put all our eggs in his basket. He's there to be the back up, that's all. In that role he'll win some and he'll lose some, whatever. Expectations, man.

Exactly, besides he's only here for a season. Once the Vikings brought in Freeman, we pretty much caught the hint that Cassel wasn't in the plans to take over the ship if Ponder didn't pan out. Most people already knew what kind of player Cassel was when he signed him, yet he's still better than Ponder.

[Raptorman]

0/10, very bad troll job.

Cassel wasn't drafted #12 overall, he wasn't anointed the starter with zero competition, he hasn't been named THE guy or the future of our franchise, we haven't put all our eggs in his basket. He's there to be the back up, that's all. In that role he'll win some and he'll lose some, whatever. Expectations, man.

A QB is a QB. If one takes the heat for sucking and losing then you give a pass to the next guy because he was brought in as back-up? All I heard here after the first 3 games was bench Ponder because he sucks. So now he's benched. And the result is the same. But now it's not the QB's fault. But if Ponder had played it would be right? Because he was picked 12th overall. QB's may have change, result has not. And as I have been pointing out from game 1, the Defense once again gave up more than 30 points. Both of Cassel's interception resulted in TD's for the Panthers. But he gets a pass, because he's the back up. Ok, I got it, the only QB that is responsible for losses on the Vikings is Ponder. All others get a pass because they were not drafted 12th.

[Just Me]

A QB is a QB. If one takes the heat for sucking and losing then you give a pass to the next guy because he was brought in as back-up? All I heard here after the first 3 games was bench Ponder because he sucks. So now he's benched. And the result is the same. But now it's not the QB's fault. But if Ponder had played it would be right? Because he was picked 12th overall. QB's may have change, result has not. And as I have been pointing out from game 1, the Defense once again gave up more than 30 points. Both of Cassel's interception resulted in TD's for the Panthers. But he gets a pass, because he's the back up. Ok, I got it, the only QB that is responsible for losses on the Vikings is Ponder. All others get a pass because they were not drafted 12th.

To be fair: Ponder is 0-3, Cassel is 1-1. Cassel is responsible (at least partially) for our loss yesterday. He confirmed what many of us already suspicioned: He is a minor (if any) upgrade over Ponder. I'd be happy to blame him for the loss (and certainly the 2 turnovers didn't help). FWIW I'm not sure we'd have faired significantly worse with Ponder.

[psjordan]

All I heard here after the first 3 games was bench Ponder because he sucks. So now he's benched. And the result is the same. But now it's not the QB's fault. But if Ponder had played it would be right? Because he was picked 12th overall. QB's may have change, result has not. And as I have been pointing out from game 1, the Defense once again gave up more than 30 points. Both of Cassel's interception resulted in TD's for the Panthers. But he gets a pass, because he's the back up. Ok, I got it, the only QB that is responsible for losses on the Vikings is Ponder. All others get a pass because they were not drafted 12th.

All the other stuff aside, it's a matter of getting better by position. Getting better by position may not change your ability to win the next game, or the game after that. Or even any game this year. If your overall team sucks, you are likely going to lose.

However it's a simple matter of "is Cassel playing betther than Ponder?". Not that either one is all-pro, the long-term answer, or even any good as an NFL QB.

If player A is a 2 out of 10 and player B is a 3 out of 10, or 4 and 5 or 8 and 9, whatever - you make the change to get better play at the position. May or may not help you win.

You could always argue Ponder has played better than Cassel, as that stuff is subjective, but to expect either one to lead us on a winning streak seems pretty unrealistic to me.

I prefer Cassel because honestly it pains me to see a younger QB either stagnate or get worse. At least with a "mediocre veteran" I know what to expect and am not pained to watch him play.

[Raptorman]

To be fair: Ponder is 0-3, Cassel is 1-1. Cassel is responsible (at least partially) for our loss yesterday. He confirmed what many of us already suspicioned: He is a minor (if any) upgrade over Ponder. I'd be happy to blame him for the loss (and certainly the 2 turnovers didn't help). FWIW I'm not sure we'd have faired significantly worse with Ponder.

Just so I get this straight. Ponder has 3 turnovers that result in TD's in three games. Average 1 TD per turnover per game. Cassel has 2 turnovers that result in TD's in two games. Average 1 TD per game, but he's an upgrade. Want to know what the difference in Ponders 0-3 record and Cassel's 1-1 record? It's simple. The Pittsburgh game is the only one were the defense held the other team to under 30 points. Until the defense stops the other team from scoring an average of 31.6 points a game, it won't matter if the QB is Ponder, Cassel or Freeman. You can't win when the other team scores 30+ points. Well you can, 12% of the time.

[Mothman]

Just so I get this straight. Ponder has 3 turnovers that result in TD's in three games. Average 1 TD per turnover per game. Cassel has 2 turnovers that result in TD's in two games. Average 1 TD per game, but he's an upgrade. Want to know what the difference in Ponders 0-3 record and Cassel's 1-1 record? It's simple. The Pittsburgh game is the only one were the defense held the other team to under 30 points. Until the defense stops the other team from scoring an average of 31.6 points a game, it won't matter if the QB is Ponder, Cassel or Freeman. You can't win when the other team scores 30+ points. Well you can, 12% of the time.

Well said!