Vikings @ Titans

[Cliff]

Another game the Vikings "should" win so of course they'll make it super close

Levis is back and had decent numbers but apparently it was mostly garbage time.

I'll actually be at this game, so hopefully they put on a good show!

[cmoss84]

Another game the Vikings "should" win so of course they'll make it super close

Derrick Henry will be a good test of the Vikings run defense that has been very good to this point. Levis is back and had decent numbers but apparently it was mostly garbage time.

I'll actually be at this game, so hopefully they put on a good show!

Henry is on the Ravens, mi amigo.

[Cliff]

Another game the Vikings "should" win so of course they'll make it super close

Derrick Henry will be a good test of the Vikings run defense that has been very good to this point. Levis is back and had decent numbers but apparently it was mostly garbage time.

I'll actually be at this game, so hopefully they put on a good show!

Henry is on the Ravens, mi amigo.

Wow ... how did I do that lmao

[CharVike]

Another game the Vikings "should" win so of course they'll make it super close

Levis is back and had decent numbers but apparently it was mostly garbage time.

I'll actually be at this game, so hopefully they put on a good show!

That is great for you to be at the game. Give us some input. It's always a great read when posters do that. Have fun.

[CharVike]

The Titans are not a very good football team. The Bears, Packers and Lions beat them easily. The Bears have a rookie QB, the Packers played a backup and the Lions have one of the top QBs. I don't see them able to score very much unless we give them great field position. The finger always gets pointed at the QB so Levis gets the blame. But they have one of the worst OL's in football. Good luck trying to do anything for an extended period. They even traded their top WR. They have basically given up. Their defense appears to be a top notch unit as they have given up the least amount of yards. But they don't stop teams from scoring because they give up plenty of points. Other things are involved like field position, penalties, turnovers ect.. Their special teams are also bad. Should be room for returns. On our side the defense should have a big game. It wouldn't surprise me if they scored from an interception or strip sack or fumble. The big worry is our offense. Darnold gets the blame for that. We'll see if they can get back on track. What will that take? I have no idea. Darnold will make a few mistakes a game. I expect that to continue. I just don't see much fight from the Titans. I see a victory 24-13.

[CharVike]

Good win. Darnold throws a couple TDs and had a rushing TD. He did some good things under pressure. The 98 yard TD pass kept the Titians hopes alive. Pat Jones showed up with a couple sacks. He's been MIA. Junk OL helps. Off to the Bears.
Dalton Risner replaced Ingram.

[VikingLord]

I thought Darnold had a really solid game against the Titans. He did a nice job avoiding pressure and taking care of the football. He looked a lot more like the Darnold of the first few games.

As for the Vikings overall, I thought they struggled to run effectively, but overall did a pretty good job on offense. Jordan Addison in particular made some nice plays and took some pretty rough shots. I also like what the Vikings TEs did as a group yesterday. Darnold is finding those guys and they're getting open, which is helping to keep drives alive. TJ's return has been very helpful to the cause.

Defensively, I thought they did a great job of keeping Levis bottled up, which really limited what the Titans were able to do on offense. Yes, they gave up some big pass plays, and that is never good, but overall I thought they controlled the LOS and kept the Titans bottled up. Take away that 99 yard pass play and the Titans were held under 200 yards of total offense.

It was a game the Vikings should have won and did win, and so will be the next game against the Bears who looked surprisingly good against the Packers. However, it's a game they need to win as the Lions show no signs of slowing down.

[psjordan]

I fully understand the hand-wringing over Darnold's play, but I urge keeping in mind he's a $10M starting QB on a one year deal. His level of play is probably equivalent to a $30M per year guy on a 2-3 year deal. For me, it's almost "whatever positive he brings to the table" kind of thought process. Our Kirk history/departure process left us pretty screwed at QB, and things could be a TON worse. See Dobbs comma Josh.

And think of it this way - Darnold's flaws are opening the door to legit seeing if McCarthy is starting material or not next year. If Darnold remained on fire, we might have re-signed him (we may yet) and delayed McCarthy. Gotta be honest, I'd really hate to be stuck with a three year Darnold contract moving forward.

As for these recent games, the overall mediocre play/results kind of squash the vibe here. I know we're all happy with the record (except for the legit thoughts we are just going to end up with the #22 pick again), and winning is a lot better than losing. But I'd sure like to see what McCarthy and Turner have for real, and whether this draft will be another bust. Even Ivan Rodriguez being an apparently healthy scratch has been a bummer for me. And apparently we'll have to wait until next year to get any solid clues for any of these guys.

I do not have a good feeling about Turner. After seeing him up close in person, he does not look like 6'3" 250 to me, and does not appear to have upper level quickness.

Of the returning players, good thing Pat Jones is playing at a higher level than in the past.

[VikingLord]

I fully understand the hand-wringing over Darnold's play, but I urge keeping in mind he's a $10M starting QB on a one year deal. His level of play is probably equivalent to a $30M per year guy on a 2-3 year deal. For me, it's almost "whatever positive he brings to the table" kind of thought process. Our Kirk history/departure process left us pretty screwed at QB, and things could be a TON worse. See Dobbs comma Josh.

And think of it this way - Darnold's flaws are opening the door to legit seeing if McCarthy is starting material or not next year. If Darnold remained on fire, we might have re-signed him (we may yet) and delayed McCarthy. Gotta be honest, I'd really hate to be stuck with a three year Darnold contract moving forward.

As for these recent games, the overall mediocre play/results kind of squash the vibe here. I know we're all happy with the record (except for the legit thoughts we are just going to end up with the #22 pick again), and winning is a lot better than losing. But I'd sure like to see what McCarthy and Turner have for real, and whether this draft will be another bust. Even Ivan Rodriguez being an apparently healthy scratch has been a bummer for me. And apparently we'll have to wait until next year to get any solid clues for any of these guys.

I do not have a good feeling about Turner. After seeing him up close in person, he does not look like 6'3" 250 to me, and does not appear to have upper level quickness.

Of the returning players, good thing Pat Jones is playing at a higher level than in the past.

This season kind of feels to me like the 2017 season where Case Keenum stepped in and led a flawed team to in improbable record and deeper into the playoffs than anyone expected. Case performed well until he didn't, and of course he didn't on the biggest stage he'll ever perform on.

Will Darnold be able to do in 2024 what Keenum failed to do in 2017? I guess we'll see. The offense has moments where they look really solid. The defense has stretches where they look dominant. And then we watch as passes are thrown directly at defenders and/or over the helplessly outstretched arms of a Vikings DB for a big play.

I agree with you that extending Darnold at this point is more risk than I think KAM wants to take on. McCarthy was probably going to sit this year anyway, so no harm no foul on that, and I suspect unless Darnold leads them to a Superbowl appearance at least it would still be McCarthy's job to lose next season.

As for Turner, I got the impression he just wasn't playing disciplined football more than he wasn't able to physically handle his position. That's a coaching thing and I suspect the more he shows Flores in practice, the more we'll see him on the field. He certainly has underwhelmed production-wise compared to his contemporaries in the 1st round of last year's draft, which isn't a good sign, but at the same time, I still think he can develop into an impact player.

[Cliff]

And think of it this way - Darnold's flaws are opening the door to legit seeing if McCarthy is starting material or not next year. If Darnold remained on fire, we might have re-signed him (we may yet) and delayed McCarthy. Gotta be honest, I'd really hate to be stuck with a three year Darnold contract moving forward.

As long as there isn't a no trade clause I'd be fine signing Darnold. Give JJ more time to heal and another year to learn, then deal Darnold for draft picks. If he has a second season like this one they might be able to get a first for him, maybe more. Right now if they just let him walk they're completely reliant on an unknown player who has already lost a year due to injury. If JJ can't stay healthy and they let Darnold walk it gets pretty ugly as you move down the depth chart.

[CharVike]

And think of it this way - Darnold's flaws are opening the door to legit seeing if McCarthy is starting material or not next year. If Darnold remained on fire, we might have re-signed him (we may yet) and delayed McCarthy. Gotta be honest, I'd really hate to be stuck with a three year Darnold contract moving forward.

As long as there isn't a no trade clause I'd be fine signing Darnold. Give JJ more time to heal and another year to learn, then deal Darnold for draft picks. If he has a second season like this one they might be able to get a first for him, maybe more. Right now if they just let him walk they're completely reliant on an unknown player who has already lost a year due to injury. If JJ can't stay healthy and they let Darnold walk it gets pretty ugly as you move down the depth chart.

What I highlighted is the key. Next year is the last season on the contracts for KAM and KOC. They need to keep and pay whoever they feel gives them the best chance to win games. Sammy has shown enough that if JJM isn't ready then he can play good enough to win some games. Right now we are fighting for the North title and playoff berth.

[VikingLord]

And think of it this way - Darnold's flaws are opening the door to legit seeing if McCarthy is starting material or not next year. If Darnold remained on fire, we might have re-signed him (we may yet) and delayed McCarthy. Gotta be honest, I'd really hate to be stuck with a three year Darnold contract moving forward.

As long as there isn't a no trade clause I'd be fine signing Darnold. Give JJ more time to heal and another year to learn, then deal Darnold for draft picks. If he has a second season like this one they might be able to get a first for him, maybe more. Right now if they just let him walk they're completely reliant on an unknown player who has already lost a year due to injury. If JJ can't stay healthy and they let Darnold walk it gets pretty ugly as you move down the depth chart.

AFAIK, McCarthy didn't have any injury history coming out of college. Granted, he didn't play college ball very long as he was one of the younger guys in last year's draft, but I think what happened to him this year was kind of a freak injury and would be unlikely to recur or become a consistent problem for him.

With that said, Darnold does not have an injury history, so this is the known-vs-unknown conundrum KAM will be facing. A lot depends on where this Vikings team ends up and the perception others have of Darnold when the season ends. If the Vikings are successful and Darnold is a big reason why, I'd expect him to get several top-dollar offers in free agency that would force KAM's hand essentially. My guess is Darnold would probably take a little less to remain with the Vikings, but he'd also likely want some commitment in terms of his status as the team's starter, certainly for next season, but perhaps even beyond that. There is precedent for teams taking a young QB and letting him stew for a while even when healthy if that team has an established starting QB. Most recently the Packers did that when they had Rodgers and drafted Love. So I could see maybe a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option or something like that that would allow the Vikings some flexibility as it relates to McCarthy's status while not losing Darnold's proven production.

So much depends on how the team finishes this season. They're heading into a stretch of games where they could either emerge as a top contender in the NFC or be exposed as a pretender. When the season started I thought they'd be lucky to be 1-5. Now as the season ends I'd like to believe they'll finish 6-1, but we'll have to see it, starting with this game at the Bears.

[Cliff]

As long as there isn't a no trade clause I'd be fine signing Darnold. Give JJ more time to heal and another year to learn, then deal Darnold for draft picks. If he has a second season like this one they might be able to get a first for him, maybe more. Right now if they just let him walk they're completely reliant on an unknown player who has already lost a year due to injury. If JJ can't stay healthy and they let Darnold walk it gets pretty ugly as you move down the depth chart.

What I highlighted is the key. Next year is the last season on the contracts for KAM and KOC. They need to keep and pay whoever they feel gives them the best chance to win games. Sammy has shown enough that if JJM isn't ready then he can play good enough to win some games. Right now we are fighting for the North title and playoff berth.

I agree. I wonder if there's a situation where KAM gets let go and KOC is retained.

There's still a long way to go to the end of the season but it's hard to see Darnold crashing and burning too badly and having the feared "regression" that he never comes back from. In both games he has played poorly in he bounced back the next week and played pretty well. I think 10 games, many against quality opponents, is a big enough sample size to know what they have in him.

I still don't think Darnold has it in him to be "elite", but he's definitely in Kirk Cousins territory. At least he is with the Vikings.

[Cliff]

AFAIK, McCarthy didn't have any injury history coming out of college. Granted, he didn't play college ball very long as he was one of the younger guys in last year's draft, but I think what happened to him this year was kind of a freak injury and would be unlikely to recur or become a consistent problem for him.

I still have Bridgewater PTSD. Obviously it's not as critical, but it's a non-contact season-ending injury. Either way, they need a backup plan. McCarthy is on his rookie deal so that leaves room to sign a good-but-not-elite QB like Darnold.

With that said, Darnold does not have an injury history, so this is the known-vs-unknown conundrum KAM will be facing. A lot depends on where this Vikings team ends up and the perception others have of Darnold when the season ends. If the Vikings are successful and Darnold is a big reason why, I'd expect him to get several top-dollar offers in free agency that would force KAM's hand essentially. My guess is Darnold would probably take a little less to remain with the Vikings, but he'd also likely want some commitment in terms of his status as the team's starter, certainly for next season, but perhaps even beyond that. There is precedent for teams taking a young QB and letting him stew for a while even when healthy if that team has an established starting QB. Most recently the Packers did that when they had Rodgers and drafted Love. So I could see maybe a 2 year deal with a 3rd year option or something like that that would allow the Vikings some flexibility as it relates to McCarthy's status while not losing Darnold's proven production.

I don't think he has to choose between them. There's no reason he can't get both if he wants.

One big thing is everyone has seen what Darnold looks like with a sub-par cast around him. It's mostly teams in a complete rebuild that need a new QB, and Darnold isn't the QB for that situation. I think the market will be pretty soft for Darnold, even if the Vikings makes a run deep into the playoffs. The terrific weapons around Darnold will get a lot of credit for his performance, as they should. I also have to imagine Darnold doesn't want to go back to a situation like that. It can't be much fun.

So much depends on how the team finishes this season. They're heading into a stretch of games where they could either emerge as a top contender in the NFC or be exposed as a pretender. When the season started I thought they'd be lucky to be 1-5. Now as the season ends I'd like to believe they'll finish 6-1, but we'll have to see it, starting with this game at the Bears.

It definitely does, and how he plays in those games matter regardless if the Vikings win or lose.

It seems like the bar for what qualifies the Vikings as being a "good team" keeps moving. This stretch of games coming up is not as daunting as the beginning of the season. Giants, 49ers, Texans, Packers, Jets, Lions is tougher than their next 6. Bears, Cardinals, Falcons, Bears, Seahawks, Packers.

Not that they can't drop those games, we've seen that with this team before, and if they do they'll definitely be "down graded", but isn't that just about every team in the NFL? Even the Chiefs and Lions aren't immune from having a slump. Every team is a 4-game losing streak away from being a "pretender".

[CharVike]

What I highlighted is the key. Next year is the last season on the contracts for KAM and KOC. They need to keep and pay whoever they feel gives them the best chance to win games. Sammy has shown enough that if JJM isn't ready then he can play good enough to win some games. Right now we are fighting for the North title and playoff berth.

I agree. I wonder if there's a situation where KAM gets let go and KOC is retained.

There's still a long way to go to the end of the season but it's hard to see Darnold crashing and burning too badly and having the feared "regression" that he never comes back from. In both games he has played poorly in he bounced back the next week and played pretty well. I think 10 games, many against quality opponents, is a big enough sample size to know what they have in him.

I still don't think Darnold has it in him to be "elite", but he's definitely in Kirk Cousins territory. At least he is with the Vikings.

I've been impressed with Darnold. Him bouncing back after a tough game was great to see. I'm surprised with his ability to escape the pocket when there is a break down. He can move. He's got every physical skill there is. Plus he has great size. He's not just a fastball thrower either. He can drop it in there between gaps like the early throw to Jefferson between the CB and safety coverage. If Flores keeps the defense playing good ball we will be a tough team to beat. I have no idea about the KAM/KOC situation. But IMO if we make the playoffs this year and next I don't see either getting fired. One thing I like about KAM is he let them cut Cine and Booth jr. It's hard for a GM to admit I missed on picks. That shows a great working relationship.