Pre Season Game 1 KOC talk

[CharVike]

Darnold gets the start, then JJ, then Hall. Nick probably won't play.

[VikingsVictorious]

Vikings with a nice win. I'll take it.

[Cliff]

That was a pretty fun game to watch. I thought Darnold looked good. JJ's first INT was pretty annoying but then he made up for it which was good to see. I can't wait to see more of Dallas Turner, I think that guy is going to be a household name.

I like the new kickoff rules, it makes them much more entertaining.

[VikingsVictorious]

That was a pretty fun game to watch. I thought Darnold looked good. JJ's first INT was pretty annoying but then he made up for it which was good to see. I can't wait to see more of Dallas Turner, I think that guy is going to be a household name.

I like the new kickoff rules, it makes them much more entertaining.

I've got a prediction that Turner will win the Defensive Rookie of the Year.

[VikingLord]

That was a pretty fun game to watch. I thought Darnold looked good. JJ's first INT was pretty annoying but then he made up for it which was good to see. I can't wait to see more of Dallas Turner, I think that guy is going to be a household name.

I like the new kickoff rules, it makes them much more entertaining.

Honestly, the Raiders blitzed the crap out of JJ and I thought he recognized and handled the pressure very well sans the poor decision on the INT. His two reads on the two TDs were excellent - he saw the routes coming open on time and both throws were excellent and hit the receiver in stride. Very good for a young QB like JJ to show that ability to play the game at that speed in the pros.

But the two TD throws weren't even the most impressive throws he made IMHO. There were a few other throws under duress that were pretty awesome. I forget who he threw to on some of them, but I remember one in particular he fired out to Jackson and got clocked right after it. He stood in knowing he'd take the hit and fired an absolute dime. Very impressive.

Darnold played well but only got the one series so it is hard to say. I thought he got away with the one deep throw on the post route where the ball went right over a DB. Had the DB just been a little deeper on the route that is easily broken up or even picked. It was a nice throw to get it over the DB, but it almost seemed like Darnold didn't see the DB there when he let it go. I mean, it had to be perfectly placed and it was, and there are some pro QBs who if they attempted a throw like that I would believe they just knew they could beat the guy in coverage there, but that one seemed iffy to me for some reason.

Anyway, very impressed by JJ so far.

[VikingLord]

That was a pretty fun game to watch. I thought Darnold looked good. JJ's first INT was pretty annoying but then he made up for it which was good to see. I can't wait to see more of Dallas Turner, I think that guy is going to be a household name.

I like the new kickoff rules, it makes them much more entertaining.

I've got a prediction that Turner will win the Defensive Rookie of the Year.

Turner did well and the Vikings did get some pressure on the QB, so that was good to see. They're going to need that this year with what looks like it will be a pretty shaky secondary.

[makila]

Alec Lewis from the athletic.
53 man projection after one preseason game.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/569474 ... ed-article

This is arguably the most important week of the preseason for the Minnesota Vikings.

Tuesday, they’ll fly to Cleveland for joint practices with the Browns. Coach Kevin O’Connell has valued those reps as highly as any over the last two years, and this summer is no different. Expect major feedback on the Vikings’ starters, especially up front and on the edge.

As part of the preparation for the week, and in the aftermath of Saturday’s preseason win over the Las Vegas Raiders, here’s my latest 53-man roster projection:

Quarterback (3)
In: Sam Darnold, J.J. McCarthy, Nick Mullens
Out: Jaren Hall

McCarthy’s debut Saturday won’t slow the hype train, but it also won’t change O’Connell’s decision on who’s starting in Week 1. McCarthy will likely take more snaps with the No. 1 unit this week and in the coming weeks.

Still, Darnold’s command on Saturday should not be overlooked. He comfortably called the offense and spread the ball around. He, too, is ahead of schedule in terms of where Minnesota believed he’d be in his first season with O’Connell. Having him start the season remains a sensible choice, with McCarthy, who is still 21, waiting in the wings if the tide turns.

Running back (3)
In: Aaron Jones, Ty Chandler, Kene Nwangwu
Out: DeWayne McBride, Myles Gaskin

No surprises here. Jones and Chandler are likely to platoon a bit throughout the season, depending on availability and defensive matchups. Nwangwu will likely be the team’s primary kick returner.

It’s a solid room, but one that would leave a lot to be desired in the event of injury. Lose Jones, and Minnesota will have to lean on Nwangwu more than it would want. Lose Chandler, and Jones’ workload would climb to a level that does not suit his long-term health.

McBride still seems a ways away from taking on a meaningful role, and Gaskin is a practice squad option the Vikings would want to be able to call on at a moment’s notice.

Fullback (1)
In: C.J. Ham

Is this the year the Vikings use Ham more offensively? If training camp is any indication, yes. Ham hasn’t played more than 20 percent of the offensive snaps in either season under O’Connell. But a commitment to 21 personnel could be one of the ways the Vikings try to run the football more efficiently.

Wide receiver (6)
In: Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, Jalen Nailor, Brandon Powell, Trishton Jackson, Trent Sherfield Sr.
Out: Malik Knowles, Jeshaun Jones, Thayer Thomas, Ty James, Lucky Jackson

Nailor has had one of the best training camps of any Vikings player. The coaching staff has raved about him publicly and privately. If he can stay healthy, he’ll likely be the team’s No. 3 wide receiver.

Powell, Trishton Jackson and Sherfield offer different skill sets behind him, but this remains a spot where an external addition makes sense — especially a run-blocking presence with a proven track record. For now, though, this group seems fairly set.

Tight end (3)
In: Johnny Mundt, Josh Oliver, Nick Muse
Out: Robert Tonyan, N’Keal Harry, Trey Knox
IR: T.J. Hockenson

The Vikings have not been shy about the fact that they believe Hockenson is ahead of schedule. He isn’t likely to be ready for Week 1, but he might not need much more time after that. Still, the Vikings won’t rush his rehab.

In the meantime, his absence will allow Minnesota to keep Mundt, Oliver and Muse. Tonyan and Harry have looked promising at times, but Muse has a connection with McCarthy that feels relevant.

Offensive line (9)
In: Christian Darrisaw, Blake Brandel, Garrett Bradbury, Ed Ingram, Brian O’Neill, Dalton Risner, Dan Feeney, David Quessenberry, Walter Rouse
Out: Michael Jurgens, Jeremy Flax, Doug Nester, Spencer Rolland, Tyrese Robinson, Henry Byrd

Adding offensive line depth was one of the Vikings’ priorities this offseason. They’ve done it with Risner and Feeney. Feeney’s versatility at center and guard is why moving off Jurgens is feasible. The Vikings might prefer to stick with their seventh-round pick, but these decisions affect the numbers elsewhere. It feels like they could pick between Jurgens and edge rusher Gabriel Murphy (see below). Keeping a potentially effective edge rusher seems more valuable.

Edge rusher (6)
In: Jonathan Greenard, Andrew Van Ginkel, Dallas Turner, Patrick Jones II, Jihad Ward, Gabriel Murphy
Out: Owen Porter, Bo Richter, Andre Carter II

The Vikings deserve credit for the transformation of this position group. It’s much deeper than in recent years, even without Danielle Hunter’s exceptional talent. Of course, this happens when you put major resources (both in salary cap space and draft capital) toward the position.

Murphy is the wild card. He missed Saturday’s game with an undisclosed injury, but as long as he’s healthy, his production potential at a premium position feels more significant than many other potential cuts.

Defensive tackle (5)
In: Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard, Jonah Williams, Jerry Tillery, Levi Drake Rodriguez
Out: Jaquelin Roy, James Lynch, Taki Taimani, Jalen Redmond, Tyler Manoa

Phillips, Bullard, Williams and Tillery are sure-fire candidates for the 53-man. After that, it’s a full-on competition.

Rodriguez provides what most other options don’t: upside and pass-rush potential. Cutting Roy would mirror the decision the Vikings made last year with Esezi Otomewo, but even though he has prototypical nose tackle size, he hasn’t wowed in training camp. Redmond offers some intrigue as an XFL product, but in general, this is a position the Vikings will be hunting in the draft and free agency ahead of 2025.

Linebacker (3)
In: Ivan Pace Jr., Blake Cashman, Kamu Grugier-Hill
Out: Brian Asamoah II, Jabril Cox, Dallas Gant

Asamoah adds special teams value, but Grugier-Hill can play there as well. Given the constraints elsewhere, Asamoah becomes one of the final men out.

There hasn’t been much noise around Pace thus far in camp, but know this: He seems confident, hungry and ready to build off last season. Toss him in more stunts, which is the plan now without Hunter, and he should be able to rack up pressures as a pass rusher.

Cornerback (5)
In: Shaq Griffin, Byron Murphy Jr., Akayleb Evans, Fabian Moreau, Nahshon Wright
Out: Dwight McGlothern, Duke Shelley, Jaylin Williams, A.J. Green III, Jacobi Francis

This was one of the most difficult positions to peg. For one, the Vikings are still in the market for another experienced cornerback, and Stephon Gilmore is the preferred option. Snag him and the Vikings will have to get even more creative elsewhere.

Leaving out McGlothern is especially tough. He has size and good ball skills. Sneaking him onto the practice squad will be a challenge, and for a team as devoid of young talent at cornerback as the Vikings are, losing a potential contributor is hard to fathom.

Letting go of Shelley isn’t an easy decision either, but it essentially became a question of Ward/McCain versus Shelley. Versatility and a tie going to a draft pick proved to be the deciding factors.

Safety (6)
In: Harrison Smith, Camryn Bynum, Josh Metellus, Theo Jackson, Jay Ward, Bobby McCain
Out: Lewis Cine

Six safeties is a lot, but they kept six last year, and the versatility of several players makes it possible again. Ward and McCain can both play cornerback, too. Ward has mixed in at the position in the last couple weeks. He has work to do at the spot to become a viable option. His special teams viability makes him fairly safe. He’s also a fourth-round pick, and considering general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah’s countless misses through two seasons, Ward’s leash is likely to be long.

As for Cine, this is likely the end of the road. The former first-round pick played 27 defensive snaps Saturday and looked as comfortable as he has in a Vikings uniform. Still, given the roster crunch and lack of high-impact potential, cutting him feels likely.

Special teams (3)
In: Will Reichard, Ryan Wright, Andrew DePaola
Out: Seth Vernon

Reichard and DePaola are as close as it gets to locks.

Wright took the lead with Saturday’s showing, but the Vikings aren’t likely to hand him the job. He’ll have to continue to earn it against Vernon, but he is steadily ahead.

[VikingLord]

Safety (6)
In: Harrison Smith, Camryn Bynum, Josh Metellus, Theo Jackson, Jay Ward, Bobby McCain
Out: Lewis Cine

Six safeties is a lot, but they kept six last year, and the versatility of several players makes it possible again. Ward and McCain can both play cornerback, too. Ward has mixed in at the position in the last couple weeks. He has work to do at the spot to become a viable option. His special teams viability makes him fairly safe. He’s also a fourth-round pick, and considering general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah’s countless misses through two seasons, Ward’s leash is likely to be long.

As for Cine, this is likely the end of the road. The former first-round pick played 27 defensive snaps Saturday and looked as comfortable as he has in a Vikings uniform. Still, given the roster crunch and lack of high-impact potential, cutting him feels likely.

Ouch... Man, the top of Kwesi's first draft was almost an infamous fail with Booth being shipped to the Cowboys and now Cine not making the cut, much less winning significant playing time.

At least with Booth they got something in trade...

[CharVike]

Safety (6)
In: Harrison Smith, Camryn Bynum, Josh Metellus, Theo Jackson, Jay Ward, Bobby McCain
Out: Lewis Cine

Six safeties is a lot, but they kept six last year, and the versatility of several players makes it possible again. Ward and McCain can both play cornerback, too. Ward has mixed in at the position in the last couple weeks. He has work to do at the spot to become a viable option. His special teams viability makes him fairly safe. He’s also a fourth-round pick, and considering general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah’s countless misses through two seasons, Ward’s leash is likely to be long.

As for Cine, this is likely the end of the road. The former first-round pick played 27 defensive snaps Saturday and looked as comfortable as he has in a Vikings uniform. Still, given the roster crunch and lack of high-impact potential, cutting him feels likely.

Ouch... Man, the top of Kwesi's first draft was almost an infamous fail with Booth being shipped to the Cowboys and now Cine not making the cut, much less winning significant playing time.

At least with Booth they got something in trade...

I didn't even realize Booth was traded. I was wondering why he wasn't on this list.

[CharVike]

Alec Lewis from the athletic.
53 man projection after one preseason game.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/569474 ... ed-article

This is arguably the most important week of the preseason for the Minnesota Vikings.

Tuesday, they’ll fly to Cleveland for joint practices with the Browns. Coach Kevin O’Connell has valued those reps as highly as any over the last two years, and this summer is no different. Expect major feedback on the Vikings’ starters, especially up front and on the edge.

As part of the preparation for the week, and in the aftermath of Saturday’s preseason win over the Las Vegas Raiders, here’s my latest 53-man roster projection:

Quarterback (3)
In: Sam Darnold, J.J. McCarthy, Nick Mullens
Out: Jaren Hall

McCarthy’s debut Saturday won’t slow the hype train, but it also won’t change O’Connell’s decision on who’s starting in Week 1. McCarthy will likely take more snaps with the No. 1 unit this week and in the coming weeks.

Still, Darnold’s command on Saturday should not be overlooked. He comfortably called the offense and spread the ball around. He, too, is ahead of schedule in terms of where Minnesota believed he’d be in his first season with O’Connell. Having him start the season remains a sensible choice, with McCarthy, who is still 21, waiting in the wings if the tide turns.

Running back (3)
In: Aaron Jones, Ty Chandler, Kene Nwangwu
Out: DeWayne McBride, Myles Gaskin

No surprises here. Jones and Chandler are likely to platoon a bit throughout the season, depending on availability and defensive matchups. Nwangwu will likely be the team’s primary kick returner.

It’s a solid room, but one that would leave a lot to be desired in the event of injury. Lose Jones, and Minnesota will have to lean on Nwangwu more than it would want. Lose Chandler, and Jones’ workload would climb to a level that does not suit his long-term health.

McBride still seems a ways away from taking on a meaningful role, and Gaskin is a practice squad option the Vikings would want to be able to call on at a moment’s notice.

Fullback (1)
In: C.J. Ham

Is this the year the Vikings use Ham more offensively? If training camp is any indication, yes. Ham hasn’t played more than 20 percent of the offensive snaps in either season under O’Connell. But a commitment to 21 personnel could be one of the ways the Vikings try to run the football more efficiently.

Wide receiver (6)
In: Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, Jalen Nailor, Brandon Powell, Trishton Jackson, Trent Sherfield Sr.
Out: Malik Knowles, Jeshaun Jones, Thayer Thomas, Ty James, Lucky Jackson

Nailor has had one of the best training camps of any Vikings player. The coaching staff has raved about him publicly and privately. If he can stay healthy, he’ll likely be the team’s No. 3 wide receiver.

Powell, Trishton Jackson and Sherfield offer different skill sets behind him, but this remains a spot where an external addition makes sense — especially a run-blocking presence with a proven track record. For now, though, this group seems fairly set.

Tight end (3)
In: Johnny Mundt, Josh Oliver, Nick Muse
Out: Robert Tonyan, N’Keal Harry, Trey Knox
IR: T.J. Hockenson

The Vikings have not been shy about the fact that they believe Hockenson is ahead of schedule. He isn’t likely to be ready for Week 1, but he might not need much more time after that. Still, the Vikings won’t rush his rehab.

In the meantime, his absence will allow Minnesota to keep Mundt, Oliver and Muse. Tonyan and Harry have looked promising at times, but Muse has a connection with McCarthy that feels relevant.

Offensive line (9)
In: Christian Darrisaw, Blake Brandel, Garrett Bradbury, Ed Ingram, Brian O’Neill, Dalton Risner, Dan Feeney, David Quessenberry, Walter Rouse
Out: Michael Jurgens, Jeremy Flax, Doug Nester, Spencer Rolland, Tyrese Robinson, Henry Byrd

Adding offensive line depth was one of the Vikings’ priorities this offseason. They’ve done it with Risner and Feeney. Feeney’s versatility at center and guard is why moving off Jurgens is feasible. The Vikings might prefer to stick with their seventh-round pick, but these decisions affect the numbers elsewhere. It feels like they could pick between Jurgens and edge rusher Gabriel Murphy (see below). Keeping a potentially effective edge rusher seems more valuable.

Edge rusher (6)
In: Jonathan Greenard, Andrew Van Ginkel, Dallas Turner, Patrick Jones II, Jihad Ward, Gabriel Murphy
Out: Owen Porter, Bo Richter, Andre Carter II

The Vikings deserve credit for the transformation of this position group. It’s much deeper than in recent years, even without Danielle Hunter’s exceptional talent. Of course, this happens when you put major resources (both in salary cap space and draft capital) toward the position.

Murphy is the wild card. He missed Saturday’s game with an undisclosed injury, but as long as he’s healthy, his production potential at a premium position feels more significant than many other potential cuts.

Defensive tackle (5)
In: Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard, Jonah Williams, Jerry Tillery, Levi Drake Rodriguez
Out: Jaquelin Roy, James Lynch, Taki Taimani, Jalen Redmond, Tyler Manoa

Phillips, Bullard, Williams and Tillery are sure-fire candidates for the 53-man. After that, it’s a full-on competition.

Rodriguez provides what most other options don’t: upside and pass-rush potential. Cutting Roy would mirror the decision the Vikings made last year with Esezi Otomewo, but even though he has prototypical nose tackle size, he hasn’t wowed in training camp. Redmond offers some intrigue as an XFL product, but in general, this is a position the Vikings will be hunting in the draft and free agency ahead of 2025.

Linebacker (3)
In: Ivan Pace Jr., Blake Cashman, Kamu Grugier-Hill
Out: Brian Asamoah II, Jabril Cox, Dallas Gant

Asamoah adds special teams value, but Grugier-Hill can play there as well. Given the constraints elsewhere, Asamoah becomes one of the final men out.

There hasn’t been much noise around Pace thus far in camp, but know this: He seems confident, hungry and ready to build off last season. Toss him in more stunts, which is the plan now without Hunter, and he should be able to rack up pressures as a pass rusher.

Cornerback (5)
In: Shaq Griffin, Byron Murphy Jr., Akayleb Evans, Fabian Moreau, Nahshon Wright
Out: Dwight McGlothern, Duke Shelley, Jaylin Williams, A.J. Green III, Jacobi Francis

This was one of the most difficult positions to peg. For one, the Vikings are still in the market for another experienced cornerback, and Stephon Gilmore is the preferred option. Snag him and the Vikings will have to get even more creative elsewhere.

Leaving out McGlothern is especially tough. He has size and good ball skills. Sneaking him onto the practice squad will be a challenge, and for a team as devoid of young talent at cornerback as the Vikings are, losing a potential contributor is hard to fathom.

Letting go of Shelley isn’t an easy decision either, but it essentially became a question of Ward/McCain versus Shelley. Versatility and a tie going to a draft pick proved to be the deciding factors.

Safety (6)
In: Harrison Smith, Camryn Bynum, Josh Metellus, Theo Jackson, Jay Ward, Bobby McCain
Out: Lewis Cine

Six safeties is a lot, but they kept six last year, and the versatility of several players makes it possible again. Ward and McCain can both play cornerback, too. Ward has mixed in at the position in the last couple weeks. He has work to do at the spot to become a viable option. His special teams viability makes him fairly safe. He’s also a fourth-round pick, and considering general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah’s countless misses through two seasons, Ward’s leash is likely to be long.

As for Cine, this is likely the end of the road. The former first-round pick played 27 defensive snaps Saturday and looked as comfortable as he has in a Vikings uniform. Still, given the roster crunch and lack of high-impact potential, cutting him feels likely.

Special teams (3)
In: Will Reichard, Ryan Wright, Andrew DePaola
Out: Seth Vernon

Reichard and DePaola are as close as it gets to locks.

Wright took the lead with Saturday’s showing, but the Vikings aren’t likely to hand him the job. He’ll have to continue to earn it against Vernon, but he is steadily ahead.

I think if McGlothern gets cut a team will pick him up. Teams need CBs. I don't understand the fascination with Ham. One other note is there a possibility of trying to get some picks and trade H Smith to a team that is in safety trouble? We unloaded next years draft. I'd prefer to get something before we get nothing. We have great depth. Perhaps the Falcons? They are looking at FA now. They look desperate so perhaps we can get greater value.

[makila]

Ouch... Man, the top of Kwesi's first draft was almost an infamous fail with Booth being shipped to the Cowboys and now Cine not making the cut, much less winning significant playing time.

At least with Booth they got something in trade...

I didn't even realize Booth was traded. I was wondering why he wasn't on this list.

Yeah they moved him to Dallas for another CB (Nahshon Wright). Who was a third round pick in 2021. Swap of disappointing picks.

[CharVike]

I didn't even realize Booth was traded. I was wondering why he wasn't on this list.

Yeah they moved him to Dallas for another CB (Nahshon Wright). Who was a third round pick in 2021. Swap of disappointing picks.

The guy writing the article is good and I just thought he didn't place him under the cut list. KAM should have been fired right after that 1st draft. The value he got for the slot traded sucked. It was mentioned by many on this board. Then picking a safety after ignoring the top rated guy who became a 2nd year all pro is unforgivable. They have 2 more years. There is no way the Wilf's will ignore all this stuff. 3 arrests in 3 years is the biggest push. It's over for them unless they win it all. I don't see the talent for that. Our D the last 3 games looked like Donitel all over again.

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

Yeah they moved him to Dallas for another CB (Nahshon Wright). Who was a third round pick in 2021. Swap of disappointing picks.

The guy writing the article is good and I just thought he didn't place him under the cut list. KAM should have been fired right after that 1st draft. The value he got for the slot traded sucked. It was mentioned by many on this board. Then picking a safety after ignoring the top rated guy who became a 2nd year all pro is unforgivable. They have 2 more years. There is no way the Wilf's will ignore all this stuff. 3 arrests in 3 years is the biggest push. It's over for them unless they win it all. I don't see the talent for that. Our D the last 3 games looked like Donitel all over again.

Seriously? The Wilfs kept a mediocre GM like Spielman around for over a decade. And they're going to have a knee jerk reaction & send KAM packing after 3 or 4 seasons?

[VikingLord]

Yeah they moved him to Dallas for another CB (Nahshon Wright). Who was a third round pick in 2021. Swap of disappointing picks.

The guy writing the article is good and I just thought he didn't place him under the cut list. KAM should have been fired right after that 1st draft. The value he got for the slot traded sucked. It was mentioned by many on this board. Then picking a safety after ignoring the top rated guy who became a 2nd year all pro is unforgivable. They have 2 more years. There is no way the Wilf's will ignore all this stuff. 3 arrests in 3 years is the biggest push. It's over for them unless they win it all. I don't see the talent for that. Our D the last 3 games looked like Donitel all over again.

Yeah, KAM's first draft was just about as bad a draft as is possible in retrospect. He's done a little better since then although the jury is still out on last year's class (especially with Addison's off-field issues) and of course he took some big swings early in this year's draft as well.

[CharVike]

The guy writing the article is good and I just thought he didn't place him under the cut list. KAM should have been fired right after that 1st draft. The value he got for the slot traded sucked. It was mentioned by many on this board. Then picking a safety after ignoring the top rated guy who became a 2nd year all pro is unforgivable. They have 2 more years. There is no way the Wilf's will ignore all this stuff. 3 arrests in 3 years is the biggest push. It's over for them unless they win it all. I don't see the talent for that. Our D the last 3 games looked like Donitel all over again.

Seriously? The Wilfs kept a mediocre GM like Spielman around for over a decade. And they're going to have a knee jerk reaction & send KAM packing after 3 or 4 seasons?

Speilman actually had some nice drafts early on. You can't knock Jefferson or Darrisaw either. The team was headed in the right direction with Zim's early 70's pound the ball and play defense football. Once the Eagles destroyed us it was over for that existing core. Zim wanted his style which never would have produced a championship because his D couldn't play well when all the money was on the table. They collapsed in the playoffs. When we went into Philly and Kennum hit Diggs for the 1st score I said to myself we are going all the way. Foles sucks and we have the best D. This setup is perfect. Zim's D laid down and took the beating. It was over for that core. This team isn't close to getting to that point. The Lions are much better, the Packers have re-loaded plus changing the schemes and the Bears are building with the best QB in the draft. We are falling behind big time. That starts with bad drafting so far. That 3-0 game last year was an embarrassment. That night game against the Bears another embarrassment. Forget the excuses. That's what happened.