Packers at Vikings

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CharVike
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Packers at Vikings

Post by CharVike »

A little late but... Another coin flip game. We start our most recent QB pick Hall. He's short, doesn't have a cannon for an arm but offers plenty of mobility. The concern with that is injury and in particular concussion. A hit or fall to the head could be a quick exit again. He got a big break as the Pack suspended CB Alexander for this game. The Pack can't stop the run so Chandler should be able to get back on track. Last week wasn't pretty with an 8 for 17 yards showing. I'm sure our OL didn't create any gaps or movement and that never helps. We beat the Pack in game 1 fairly easy but times have changed since then. J Love is plodding along with 27 TDs and 11 Ints. I guess they are still alive for a playoff beat down so they do have an incentive and so do we. Not sure if the Hall start indicates a semi tank or maybe the NFL told them this is prime time get the rookie in there so people keep their sets on and stay awake. Not like the MNF sleep fest. I'll go positive as Hall will look like Dobbs 1st game and we score some points. The Pack will score also. 24-21 us.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

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MINNEAPOLIS — The Minnesota Vikings announced the following players will be inactive for their Week 17 home game against the Green Bay Packers: Cornerback Byron Murphy, Jr.
Quarterback Joshua Dobbs (emergency QB)
Safety Theo Jackson
Guard Chris Reed
Tackle Hakeem Adeniji
Receiver Jalen Nailor
Defensive lineman Jaquelin Roy
The list means right tackle Brian O'Neill is set to return, safety Lewis Cine is active for the first time since Week 6 and tight end Nick Muse is active for the first time this season.

Minnesota signed Anthony Barr from its practice squad on Friday.

The Vikings placed linebacker Troy Dye on Injured Reserve Saturday. The Vikings signed defensive lineman T.J. Smith and linebacker Nick Vigil to their 53-man roster and elevated cornerback Jaylin Williams and receiver Lucky Jackson from their practice squad on Saturday.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Good job Joseph making the long FG. One score game now.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by IIsweet »

That 1st half was ugly !!!
Have to continue to ask the question, why don't we run screens? To the RB to slow down the pass rush, a bubble screen to quick WR like Powell or Addison, just something other than long developing WR routes
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by IIsweet »

IIsweet wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:53 pm That 1st half was ugly !!!
Have to continue to ask the question, why don't we run screens? To the RB to slow down the pass rush, a bubble screen to quick WR like Powell or Addison, just something other than long developing WR routes
Imagine that... A screen play for a 1st down
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by CharVike »

First half was painful. I don't think we can score a TD. Chandler missed a block. Didn't even slow the guy up. A whiff. The mobile QB got sacked a few times. Darrisaw isn't close to his idol Williams. His beat down lead to a slap out. Maybe gunslinger Mullens gets a shot. He'll turn it over like Hall did but it least we will score. JJ needs to take the game over. The best needs to do that or he isn't the best.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by chicagopurple »

Well that was the perfect end of the season for this bottom feeder team. No more smoke and mirrors fooling fans into delusions of hope for glory. The DL created some pressure to hide the fact that we have no secondary for the first half of the season but no more. The OL is the same epic failure that has been floundering for over a decade. We have no QB (Kirk is NOT the answer on a team with no pocket). And we still have no GM that seems to recognize and address these very chronic issues. The RB by committee is a big pile of yawns but I cant totally critique the RB since they get no support from our anemic Ol. Its all just a stew of futility. Sad, but I Have to watch SF and other teams to see quality, entertaining football. My team is an embarrassing bore.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by CharVike »

chicagopurple wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:30 pm Well that was the perfect end of the season for this bottom feeder team. No more smoke and mirrors fooling fans into delusions of hope for glory. The DL created some pressure to hide the fact that we have no secondary for the first half of the season but no more. The OL is the same epic failure that has been floundering for over a decade. We have no QB (Kirk is NOT the answer on a team with no pocket). And we still have no GM that seems to recognize and address these very chronic issues. The RB by committee is a big pile of yawns but I cant totally critique the RB since they get no support from our anemic Ol. Its all just a stew of futility. Sad, but I Have to watch SF and other teams to see quality, entertaining football. My team is an embarrassing bore.
It's not the QB. There aren't too many that I have ever seen perform greatly and be a winner without a dam good OL. Even Mahomes has one of the best OLs. He's a generation QB. If he didn't he would take a beating and things wouldn't be the same. OL needs to be draft priority 1. We should sit our top guys next week. No sense getting people knocked out for nothing. Put every backup in there. Except the OL they need all the live reps they can get. Did you watch us when we beat the 49ers? We have nothing left.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

Just a really poor performance from the Vikings overall against a Packer team that came ready to play. Darrisaw got owned all night, Ingram again showing zero awareness, lots of unforced errors again, and the defense was just outclassed by a bunch of no-name receivers. Jordan Love is an OK QB. He's not the next Rodgers or Favre, but the Packers could certainly do worse than him at the QB position. But I'm not worried that another dynasty is about to emerge in Green Bay.

This seemed like a lack of effort and preparation game from a team that you can sense knows it wouldn't go anywhere even if it made the playoffs. The Packers, OTOH, were clearly ready to play and seemed to be playing for something. Maybe they have more reason to be optimistic, but I suspect if they do make the playoffs they'll be one-and-done. From my perspective, I'd rather the Vikings don't make the playoffs because they need to address some key areas on the team this offseason and higher draft picks increase the chances of successfully doing that. So I'm fine with the Packers going on and the Vikings moving up in the draft at this point.

I also believe if Cousins were still playing I'd feel a lot differently about this last game. First, I don't think the team would have lost, or at the very least not lost as badly, because I think the team would likely have 3 or more wins and be in a much more competitive playoff position. With the QBs we have now, there really isn't a point. Second, this seems like a year where the NFC is a little weaker at the top. I guess the 49ers are playing pretty well right now, but it seems like a year where had the Vikings not gotten bit so badly by the injury bug and had they not shot themselves in the foot repeatedly to open the season, they would have been right there. Oh well, such is the life of a Vikings fan.

Anyway, KOC will start Mullens against the Lions and try to win that game regardless. I fully expect them to do it, too, taking them just outside of the pick that will be used to draft Daniels, who will then go on to have the best career of the first round QBs drafted in this upcoming draft. That is just they way it goes for this team.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:41 am Just a really poor performance from the Vikings overall against a Packer team that came ready to play. Darrisaw got owned all night, Ingram again showing zero awareness, lots of unforced errors again, and the defense was just outclassed by a bunch of no-name receivers. Jordan Love is an OK QB. He's not the next Rodgers or Favre, but the Packers could certainly do worse than him at the QB position. But I'm not worried that another dynasty is about to emerge in Green Bay.

This seemed like a lack of effort and preparation game from a team that you can sense knows it wouldn't go anywhere even if it made the playoffs. The Packers, OTOH, were clearly ready to play and seemed to be playing for something. Maybe they have more reason to be optimistic, but I suspect if they do make the playoffs they'll be one-and-done. From my perspective, I'd rather the Vikings don't make the playoffs because they need to address some key areas on the team this offseason and higher draft picks increase the chances of successfully doing that. So I'm fine with the Packers going on and the Vikings moving up in the draft at this point.

I also believe if Cousins were still playing I'd feel a lot differently about this last game. First, I don't think the team would have lost, or at the very least not lost as badly, because I think the team would likely have 3 or more wins and be in a much more competitive playoff position. With the QBs we have now, there really isn't a point. Second, this seems like a year where the NFC is a little weaker at the top. I guess the 49ers are playing pretty well right now, but it seems like a year where had the Vikings not gotten bit so badly by the injury bug and had they not shot themselves in the foot repeatedly to open the season, they would have been right there. Oh well, such is the life of a Vikings fan.

Anyway, KOC will start Mullens against the Lions and try to win that game regardless. I fully expect them to do it, too, taking them just outside of the pick that will be used to draft Daniels, who will then go on to have the best career of the first round QBs drafted in this upcoming draft. That is just they way it goes for this team.
Everybody wanted Jaren Hall to start. “Gotta see what you have.” Heck, I blasted Nick Mullens as much as anybody after that meltdown against the Lions. Even I wanted them to start Hall. I was curious to see if he could rise to the occasion.

Well, we found out what we have … a 5th-round rookie from the (then) West Coast Conference who was in over his head.

That is NOT to rip Jaren Hall. It’s just a long, long way from playing Pepperdine and Santa Clara to going up against the Green Bay Packers on Sunday Night Football in a must-win game for both teams. The guy never had a chance.

It’s also easy for us to rip the O-line after that game. But honestly, if your QB doesn’t get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds, most NFL teams will make you pay. Jeremiah Sirles always says on his podcast that the guy you’re blocking will always win … it’s a matter of how long an O-lineman can delay it. Hall was slow on his drop, and his decision making was very slow. The O-line never really had a chance. The one sack he took where THREE Packers got to him at the same time … that’s on Hall. They sent more rushers than the Vikings had blockers, and he had no idea what to do.

And you saw the offense actually improve when Nick Mullens came in, weird as that is to say. He processed things quickly and moved the ball. Had a hell of a time actually scoring, but it IS Nick Mullens. Not surprisingly, the defense got a little better in the second half, probably because they weren’t on the field as much.

This team is also worn out. They had played 14 one-score games before Sunday night, often running a squad out there held together with duct tape and baling wire. I was hoping for a better showing but not surprised at how they played. I’m not sure any team endured as much adversity as the Vikings this season.

If anything, the Green Bay game highlights a) how much injuries derailed the season, and b) how far the Vikings have to go to build this roster. The roster as constructed at the beginning of the season had decent players but no quality depth. The injuries have made that painfully obvious. For example, as much as PFF and some Vikings fans don’t like Byron Murphy, look how bad the secondary has looked since he went down. The pass rush, never great outside of Danielle Hunter, has fallen apart since DJ Wonnum was lost. The tight end position suddenly looks very ordinary without Hockenson, despite the presence of Josh Oliver and Johnny “Best Third Tight End in the League” Mundt.

This game, to me, points to some big decisions that will have to be made. Those decisions start at the very top with the Wilf brothers. They had Kirk, shirtless with big chains, blowing the gjallarhorn. Was that a “we need you Kirk” gesture that means he’s coming back? Or was it a “thanks for the memories, we appreciate what you did” move that signals his departure?

Maybe it was just a fun, rile up the crowd thing … but it certainly was symbolic.
Bring Cousins back, and the Vikings will likely be vying for a wild card, but mostly unable to build a full roster in the way Detroit did and Chicago and Green Bay are doing. Let him walk, and you take your chances with a rookie QB, likely drafted in the top 10, and have the financial resources to put some pieces around him, even though it might mean a 5-12 season along the way.

What will the Vikings do? Only time will tell. Meanwhile, Mullens likely will start the season finale, probably make enough plays to keep the Vikings in the game, along with enough blunders to ruin any chance of beating a very pissed-off Lions squad that is playing for the No. 2 seed. Looking like 7-10 and tied for last in the division is pretty likely.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

What a frigging joke KAM and KO have made of this team. But hey, KO for COTY :rofl:

Flores never learned to make adjustments. Every single game when the other team started figuring Flores out, Flores just couldnt adjust. Even Zimmer adjusted sometimes. Thi team is a dumpster fire waiting to start, and the Wilf's have the match.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by makila »

I know not your main point at all Kapp. BYU football has been independent since 2010ish, until this year (Big12). They were MWC and WAC before that. Not WCC (they dont even sanction football). BYU played better competition than those schools.

Huge cfb guy, so I had to point out. Ocd makes me twitch... :|
Last edited by makila on Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:49 pm What will the Vikings do? Only time will tell. Meanwhile, Mullens likely will start the season finale, probably make enough plays to keep the Vikings in the game, along with enough blunders to ruin any chance of beating a very pissed-off Lions squad that is playing for the No. 2 seed. Looking like 7-10 and tied for last in the division is pretty likely.
I'm going to predict they follow the most logical course, which is to hedge their bet but still make a bet. As it stands, they currently sit in the 12th spot in the 2024 draft (not ironically, the exact same spot KAM found himself in when he traded back to 32nd and took Lewis Cine). Even if they lose to the Lions next Sunday, the highest pick they can get is the 9th, while I believe the lowest is the 16th. So that provides some structure around the options they'll likely have in the first round if they want to draft a QB.

As far as that goes, if they sit at #9, they might have a shot at Jayden Daniels without having to make any trade, but if he's gone by the time their pick rolls around, they're going to have a hard choice to make if they hold pat and want to draft a QB. I'd say the range from #9-#16 in the first is too high to spend on any of the 2nd tier QB prospects, so trading back in the 1st would make sense, but they also don't want to trade too far back so they miss the guy they want. If KAM could work his way back to between #20-#25, that would be a good spot for a guy like Bo Nix.

If they trade back and don't get the guy they want at QB, though, that will put them into a very difficult spot. I think it's pretty safe to say that Jaren Hall isn't the future at the position. Neither is Dobbs or Mullen, so KAM almost has to take a flyer on a QB, but waiting until their 2nd round pick comes up is a huge gamble (assuming, again, that they are not just taking a guy who plays the position, but rather a guy who they think has real potential at the position). They lack a 3rd round pick, so it would be difficult to move back up from wherever they're picking in the 2nd if they wanted to pounce on a certain player and were willing to pass on him in the 1st.

I don't envy KAM at all this year. He almost needs to find a developmental prospect at QB who has the potential to become a starter and preferably an impact starter at some point, and yet his draft position is likely to make the Vikings a "tweener" when it comes to finding a guy who merits the slot.

I think that makes it more likely KAM is going to hedge his bet with Cousins. Cousins gives the team at least the illusion of solidity next year, and he takes the pressure off if KAM drafts a rookie QB.

One other thing I can say is that the Vikings with Cousins as the starting QB and KOC as head coach is THE dream situation for a rookie QB. For all his faults, Cousins is a pro's pro and can teach a lot about playing the position, while KOC as a former pro QB can coach and bring the rookie along in the scheme. I know I keep mentioning Bo Nix's name, but a guy like that would absolutely thrive in that environment.

It's going to be a really interesting offseason. This is the first offseason since KAM and KOC took over where one can argue the Vikings are at a true inflection point talent-wise. They can choose to take a step back and shed some cap while reloading the roster, or can choose to double down and keep pushing much of the current roster forward. It will be interesting to see how they approach the offseason and what their horizon for meaningful success looks like. They've been in the "competitive rebuild" mode the last two years. Injuries were the story of this year for this team, but will they maintain that approach this offseason, or are we headed more into an actual "rebuild" season where they reset the cap and develop a new core group of players?
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 7:53 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:49 pm What will the Vikings do? Only time will tell. Meanwhile, Mullens likely will start the season finale, probably make enough plays to keep the Vikings in the game, along with enough blunders to ruin any chance of beating a very pissed-off Lions squad that is playing for the No. 2 seed. Looking like 7-10 and tied for last in the division is pretty likely.
I'm going to predict they follow the most logical course, which is to hedge their bet but still make a bet. As it stands, they currently sit in the 12th spot in the 2024 draft (not ironically, the exact same spot KAM found himself in when he traded back to 32nd and took Lewis Cine). Even if they lose to the Lions next Sunday, the highest pick they can get is the 9th, while I believe the lowest is the 16th. So that provides some structure around the options they'll likely have in the first round if they want to draft a QB.

As far as that goes, if they sit at #9, they might have a shot at Jayden Daniels without having to make any trade, but if he's gone by the time their pick rolls around, they're going to have a hard choice to make if they hold pat and want to draft a QB. I'd say the range from #9-#16 in the first is too high to spend on any of the 2nd tier QB prospects, so trading back in the 1st would make sense, but they also don't want to trade too far back so they miss the guy they want. If KAM could work his way back to between #20-#25, that would be a good spot for a guy like Bo Nix.

If they trade back and don't get the guy they want at QB, though, that will put them into a very difficult spot. I think it's pretty safe to say that Jaren Hall isn't the future at the position. Neither is Dobbs or Mullen, so KAM almost has to take a flyer on a QB, but waiting until their 2nd round pick comes up is a huge gamble (assuming, again, that they are not just taking a guy who plays the position, but rather a guy who they think has real potential at the position). They lack a 3rd round pick, so it would be difficult to move back up from wherever they're picking in the 2nd if they wanted to pounce on a certain player and were willing to pass on him in the 1st.

I don't envy KAM at all this year. He almost needs to find a developmental prospect at QB who has the potential to become a starter and preferably an impact starter at some point, and yet his draft position is likely to make the Vikings a "tweener" when it comes to finding a guy who merits the slot.

I think that makes it more likely KAM is going to hedge his bet with Cousins. Cousins gives the team at least the illusion of solidity next year, and he takes the pressure off if KAM drafts a rookie QB.

One other thing I can say is that the Vikings with Cousins as the starting QB and KOC as head coach is THE dream situation for a rookie QB. For all his faults, Cousins is a pro's pro and can teach a lot about playing the position, while KOC as a former pro QB can coach and bring the rookie along in the scheme. I know I keep mentioning Bo Nix's name, but a guy like that would absolutely thrive in that environment.

It's going to be a really interesting offseason. This is the first offseason since KAM and KOC took over where one can argue the Vikings are at a true inflection point talent-wise. They can choose to take a step back and shed some cap while reloading the roster, or can choose to double down and keep pushing much of the current roster forward. It will be interesting to see how they approach the offseason and what their horizon for meaningful success looks like. They've been in the "competitive rebuild" mode the last two years. Injuries were the story of this year for this team, but will they maintain that approach this offseason, or are we headed more into an actual "rebuild" season where they reset the cap and develop a new core group of players?
Good stuff. Agree on most.

I’m in the Penix camp. That guy is so smooth, so poised. Nothing seems to bother him. And wow does he spin it. THAT is arm talent. My concern is the same as another mega arm talent in Sam Bradford — Penix’s injury history is pretty long. His mobility could help him there. But my gosh, anybody who can play the way he played against Texas on that stage is OK in my book. There’s also a chance he could be available, or at least gettable with a less expensive trade. I believe the Bears are going to go with Fields, as he has been playing really good ball as of late. I could see them trading out of the top spot and still getting Marvin Harrison Jr., which would be truly scary.

The bowl people didn’t do Nix any favors. Liberty? Seriously? That’s like an early-season game where Cupcake University gets $2 million to come in and get slaughtered by Alabama. Nix didn’t fare well in the biggest games, and he lags behind Penix in physical ability.

I’m wondering if Caleb Williams will fall. We all genuflected over this guy … then he skips USC’s bowl game, and his backup throws 6 TDs, and reports are that USC’s receivers were much happier with a QB who played within the system. Plus there’s all the questions about his leadership. Red flags for Williams? It’s early, but I’m hearing that pro scouts like Drake Maye more.
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Re: Packers at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:49 pm I’m in the Penix camp. That guy is so smooth, so poised. Nothing seems to bother him. And wow does he spin it. THAT is arm talent. My concern is the same as another mega arm talent in Sam Bradford — Penix’s injury history is pretty long. His mobility could help him there. But my gosh, anybody who can play the way he played against Texas on that stage is OK in my book. There’s also a chance he could be available, or at least gettable with a less expensive trade.
Penix is being mentioned a lot as an option for the Vikings, and I think they could hold pat and get him with their 2nd rounder if they wanted to go that route. I think his medicals will determine when he comes off the board. I agree that his tape looks good and he handles pressure really well. He's also a little on the older side for a rookie QB, but a team like the Vikings can't afford to be that picky in the situation they are in at the QB position.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:49 pm I believe the Bears are going to go with Fields, as he has been playing really good ball as of late. I could see them trading out of the top spot and still getting Marvin Harrison Jr., which would be truly scary.
Agree - Harrison Jr. is a beast, and they'll likely have another 1st rounder ahead of where the Vikings pick to grab another top prospect. If they properly leverage the likely Williams mania and do stick with Fields, they'll likely just have to move down a few picks in the 1st and will get another extra 1st next year and maybe more.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:49 pm The bowl people didn’t do Nix any favors. Liberty? Seriously? That’s like an early-season game where Cupcake University gets $2 million to come in and get slaughtered by Alabama. Nix didn’t fare well in the biggest games, and he lags behind Penix in physical ability.
Yeah, Nix has some attributes that push him into the 2nd tier of this year's QBs and his struggles against better competition are one of them. I just think a guy like Nix would have great appeal to a former QB like KOC. Nix just looks like the type of QB that will do what he's asked to do and stay on script, which is appealing for a coach who believes strongly in his system.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 9:49 pm I’m wondering if Caleb Williams will fall. We all genuflected over this guy … then he skips USC’s bowl game, and his backup throws 6 TDs, and reports are that USC’s receivers were much happier with a QB who played within the system. Plus there’s all the questions about his leadership. Red flags for Williams? It’s early, but I’m hearing that pro scouts like Drake Maye more.
Wow, that is crazy. I hadn't heard that, but Williams is kind of like the anti-Nix, and I could see some coaches deciding they'd rather take a QB they feel they can coach over one who is going to go out and ad-lib the offense to death. I still believe when all is said-and-done that the Williams hype train will be in full gear come the draft and someone is going to take him with the first pick.