Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

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CharVike
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Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by CharVike »

Looks like Hunter is looking for more money. I guess the next step is pull a Z and ask for his release. This new culture seems like the same old culture to me. Capt Kirk showed up. Must have been part of his contract.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by StumpHunter »

The guy is making 5 million this year while Bradley Chubb is getting 22 million per year. He knows that if the shoe were on the other foot, and he was playing like a 5 million dollar DE while getting paid 20 million, the team wouldn't hesitate to cut him.

Don't blame him for not going to these programs and if I were him, I wouldn't show up until I absolutely had to, barring an extension of course.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by VikingLord »

StumpHunter wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:54 pm The guy is making 5 million this year while Bradley Chubb is getting 22 million per year. He knows that if the shoe were on the other foot, and he was playing like a 5 million dollar DE while getting paid 20 million, the team wouldn't hesitate to cut him.

Don't blame him for not going to these programs and if I were him, I wouldn't show up until I absolutely had to, barring an extension of course.
I thought he got a nice extension recently?

I understand what you're saying. Hunter is good enough where he should be paid among at least the top 10% of players at his position. I just thought the money situation was taken care of with him.

With the Vikings being pretty hard up against the cap, KAM is going to have to make some more moves to free up the money to pay Hunter. Smith and Cook are the obvious ways to free that money up. Its less clear who would be in the market for either player given the money both are scheduled to make this upcoming season.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by makila »

@VL, They converted some to signing bonus and kicked any long term commitment down the road. One can easily fault him for agreeing to it. Hes making 5m base this year. Void years were added. Which I can acknowledge I am not an expert on. I thought this was his final year on his original 5 yr deal from 2018ish.

Good summary:

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/his ... appen-next

"He has a $13.1 million cap hit in 2023, but because of previous restructures, his base salary is just $4.9 million (and he can earn up to $600K in workout and roster bonuses). "
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by StanM »

I’m neutral on Hunter. He could have turned the corner on his injury issues then again he might not. He’s definitely worth some draft capital and if the right offer comes along he might be gone. I’m feeling like there is something coming at draft time and am cautiously expecting some surprises.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by VikingLord »

makila wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:37 pm @VL, They converted some to signing bonus and kicked any long term commitment down the road. One can easily fault him for agreeing to it. Hes making 5m base this year. Void years were added. Which I can acknowledge I am not an expert on. I thought this was his final year on his original 5 yr deal from 2018ish.

Good summary:

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/his ... appen-next

"He has a $13.1 million cap hit in 2023, but because of previous restructures, his base salary is just $4.9 million (and he can earn up to $600K in workout and roster bonuses). "
Thanks makila. That article helps (although I admit, it's still very confusing with all the shifts in the amounts due to void years and other bonuses).

Bottom line seems to be if the Vikings want to keep Hunter they are going to have to extend him and pay him around $20 million per year. He's 29, so he's probably got a few solid years left at least, but he also has a pretty extensive injury history that adds some risk to any extension.

Hunter strikes me as a "win-now" player. He is most attractive to a team that is ready to compete for a Superbowl in the coming 1-3 years. I'm not sure the Vikings are that team. They're jettisoning vet players and clearing cap, plus they look like they're ready to get younger at QB in the coming years as well. The Vikings might not be knocking at the gates of the Superbowl any time soon. Hunter's best value to the Vikings might be a trade.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 1:57 pm
makila wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:37 pm @VL, They converted some to signing bonus and kicked any long term commitment down the road. One can easily fault him for agreeing to it. Hes making 5m base this year. Void years were added. Which I can acknowledge I am not an expert on. I thought this was his final year on his original 5 yr deal from 2018ish.

Good summary:

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/his ... appen-next

"He has a $13.1 million cap hit in 2023, but because of previous restructures, his base salary is just $4.9 million (and he can earn up to $600K in workout and roster bonuses). "
Thanks makila. That article helps (although I admit, it's still very confusing with all the shifts in the amounts due to void years and other bonuses).

Bottom line seems to be if the Vikings want to keep Hunter they are going to have to extend him and pay him around $20 million per year. He's 29, so he's probably got a few solid years left at least, but he also has a pretty extensive injury history that adds some risk to any extension.

Hunter strikes me as a "win-now" player. He is most attractive to a team that is ready to compete for a Superbowl in the coming 1-3 years. I'm not sure the Vikings are that team. They're jettisoning vet players and clearing cap, plus they look like they're ready to get younger at QB in the coming years as well. The Vikings might not be knocking at the gates of the Superbowl any time soon. Hunter's best value to the Vikings might be a trade.
The data say rush ends begin a fairly quick and consistent decline at 28 years old. Hunter is 28 … turns 29 in October.

As much as it pains me, as he has been an absolute stud for the Vikings, the smart move is to find a trade partner. There are outliers to the 28-year-old rule, but I’d let some other team bet $20 million that Hunter is one of them. I’d rather see the Vikings keep Za’Darius Smith on his current deal and roll with him and Marcus Davenport.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by StumpHunter »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:07 pm
VikingLord wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 1:57 pm

Thanks makila. That article helps (although I admit, it's still very confusing with all the shifts in the amounts due to void years and other bonuses).

Bottom line seems to be if the Vikings want to keep Hunter they are going to have to extend him and pay him around $20 million per year. He's 29, so he's probably got a few solid years left at least, but he also has a pretty extensive injury history that adds some risk to any extension.

Hunter strikes me as a "win-now" player. He is most attractive to a team that is ready to compete for a Superbowl in the coming 1-3 years. I'm not sure the Vikings are that team. They're jettisoning vet players and clearing cap, plus they look like they're ready to get younger at QB in the coming years as well. The Vikings might not be knocking at the gates of the Superbowl any time soon. Hunter's best value to the Vikings might be a trade.
The data say rush ends begin a fairly quick and consistent decline at 28 years old. Hunter is 28 … turns 29 in October.

As much as it pains me, as he has been an absolute stud for the Vikings, the smart move is to find a trade partner. There are outliers to the 28-year-old rule, but I’d let some other team bet $20 million that Hunter is one of them. I’d rather see the Vikings keep Za’Darius Smith on his current deal and roll with him and Marcus Davenport.
Looking at the splits by age of edge rushers since sacks have been tracked:

Age: Number of edge rushers at that age with 10+ sacks

Age 26: 96
Age 27: 106
Age 28: 97
Age 29: 81
Age 30: 69
Age 31: 47
Age 32: 36
Age 33: 21

Historically, it would be unwise for the Vikings to give an extension that guaranteed a lot of money beyond 2025 for Hunter, but a 4 year deal with the majority of guarantees paid up front would put them in a good spot and keep the Vikings from losing by far their best player on defense. A Hunter-less Viking D would not just be bad, it would be historically bad and relying on a guy who has never been able to be a fulltime player in Davenport and another who will be 31 and already showing signs of age to provide your only pass rush would not work out.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by StumpHunter »

A reasonable contract extension for Hunter would be something similar but more than Chubb, who has never come close to being as good as Hunter, and who has had a lot more injury riddled throughout his career, but who is younger.

Hunter will want more than Chubb, the Vikings will want a shorter deal so 4 years, 95 million, 50 million guaranteed. What that looks like:

Year 1 (2024): 20 million fully guaranteed
Year 2 (2025): 23 million 20 million guaranteed
--Vikings can cut him after this season with 5 million in dead cap
Year 3 (2026) : 26 million 2.5 million signing bonus
Year 4 (2027): 27 million 2.5 million signing bonus

Essentially that is a 2 year deal for 50 million, with Vikings options for a year 3 or 4.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:26 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:07 pm
The data say rush ends begin a fairly quick and consistent decline at 28 years old. Hunter is 28 … turns 29 in October.

As much as it pains me, as he has been an absolute stud for the Vikings, the smart move is to find a trade partner. There are outliers to the 28-year-old rule, but I’d let some other team bet $20 million that Hunter is one of them. I’d rather see the Vikings keep Za’Darius Smith on his current deal and roll with him and Marcus Davenport.
Looking at the splits by age of edge rushers since sacks have been tracked:

Age: Number of edge rushers at that age with 10+ sacks

Age 26: 96
Age 27: 106
Age 28: 97
Age 29: 81
Age 30: 69
Age 31: 47
Age 32: 36
Age 33: 21

Historically, it would be unwise for the Vikings to give an extension that guaranteed a lot of money beyond 2025 for Hunter, but a 4 year deal with the majority of guarantees paid up front would put them in a good spot and keep the Vikings from losing by far their best player on defense. A Hunter-less Viking D would not just be bad, it would be historically bad and relying on a guy who has never been able to be a fulltime player in Davenport and another who will be 31 and already showing signs of age to provide your only pass rush would not work out.
But you don’t know this to be a fact.

Brian Flores coaches a completely different style of defense than the loaf of bread we had calling the shots last year. With Flores, pressures and sacks can come from anywhere. He’s known to be very aggressive. Flores turned around a bad Dolphins defense in pretty short order. I have faith he can do it in Minnesota.

That said, if Flores wants Hunter, then so do I. In the end, we’re all just speculating.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by VikingLord »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:17 pm Brian Flores coaches a completely different style of defense than the loaf of bread we had calling the shots last year. With Flores, pressures and sacks can come from anywhere. He’s known to be very aggressive. Flores turned around a bad Dolphins defense in pretty short order. I have faith he can do it in Minnesota.

That said, if Flores wants Hunter, then so do I. In the end, we’re all just speculating.
I agree with this, and I would be surprised if Flores didn't want Hunter, at least for the next 2 seasons.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by VikingLord »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:39 am Essentially that is a 2 year deal for 50 million, with Vikings options for a year 3 or 4.
That would be more than fair. Hunter gets pay commensurate with his production and the Vikings get the benefit of his experience and ability to anchor the defensive rebuild that is going to happen under Flores. Win-win.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by StumpHunter »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:17 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:26 am
Looking at the splits by age of edge rushers since sacks have been tracked:

Age: Number of edge rushers at that age with 10+ sacks

Age 26: 96
Age 27: 106
Age 28: 97
Age 29: 81
Age 30: 69
Age 31: 47
Age 32: 36
Age 33: 21

Historically, it would be unwise for the Vikings to give an extension that guaranteed a lot of money beyond 2025 for Hunter, but a 4 year deal with the majority of guarantees paid up front would put them in a good spot and keep the Vikings from losing by far their best player on defense. A Hunter-less Viking D would not just be bad, it would be historically bad and relying on a guy who has never been able to be a fulltime player in Davenport and another who will be 31 and already showing signs of age to provide your only pass rush would not work out.
But you don’t know this to be a fact.

Brian Flores coaches a completely different style of defense than the loaf of bread we had calling the shots last year. With Flores, pressures and sacks can come from anywhere. He’s known to be very aggressive. Flores turned around a bad Dolphins defense in pretty short order. I have faith he can do it in Minnesota.

That said, if Flores wants Hunter, then so do I. In the end, we’re all just speculating.
I don't know it for a fact, but I do know that with a similarly talented defense in Miami (if you take Hunter out of the picture) his first season as a head coach, that defense was terrible.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:26 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:07 pm
The data say rush ends begin a fairly quick and consistent decline at 28 years old. Hunter is 28 … turns 29 in October.

As much as it pains me, as he has been an absolute stud for the Vikings, the smart move is to find a trade partner. There are outliers to the 28-year-old rule, but I’d let some other team bet $20 million that Hunter is one of them. I’d rather see the Vikings keep Za’Darius Smith on his current deal and roll with him and Marcus Davenport.
Looking at the splits by age of edge rushers since sacks have been tracked:

Age: Number of edge rushers at that age with 10+ sacks

Age 26: 96
Age 27: 106
Age 28: 97
Age 29: 81
Age 30: 69
Age 31: 47
Age 32: 36
Age 33: 21

Historically, it would be unwise for the Vikings to give an extension that guaranteed a lot of money beyond 2025 for Hunter, but a 4 year deal with the majority of guarantees paid up front would put them in a good spot and keep the Vikings from losing by far their best player on defense. A Hunter-less Viking D would not just be bad, it would be historically bad and relying on a guy who has never been able to be a fulltime player in Davenport and another who will be 31 and already showing signs of age to provide your only pass rush would not work out.
This age split is very interesting. In a nutshell once a player hits 31 it's basically over for an edge rusher. Z played 1/2 a season 2022 the other half he didn't do much. The arrow isn't pointing up that's for sure.
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Re: Danielle Hunter won’t attend Vikings voluntary offseason program

Post by allday1991 »

Hunter and our first to move up for someone like Van Ness, thoughts? Maybe get a 3-4 in return.
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