Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

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CharVike
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:25 am
VikingsFan84 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:50 pm

New head coach, new scheme, and #31 ranked defense that needs to be fixed
The Viking's D last year was way better than their total yardage given up indicated. As good or better than the Packer's D in many metrics including points given up per drive and DVOA which are both significantly better at predicting success than total yards.

The D will be much better(and if it isn't we need to start looking for a new D coordinator immediately with the talent on it), it is the offense that may take a step back early as they get used to the new system. I also believe there will be an increase in turnovers on offense especially early until the complexity is dialed back later in the season. Fortunately GB defensive backs don't appear to be able to catch Vikings' QBs passes and dropped 6 balls that hit them in the hands in the two games last season.
The offense will take a step back because of a new system but the defense won't by switching to a 3-4. Makes sense. Here's the stat that shows what this D was. I don't see way better I see a D that collapses.
Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
the Vikings allowed TDs on 32.4% of opponent drives in the final 4 minutes before halftime or the end of the game
worst in the NFL
NFL average was 12%
#31 was 20.6%
The worst example in a game was letting the Lions march 75 yards with only 1:50 remaining and no timeouts for the winning TD pass on the last play.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:18 am
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:25 am

The Viking's D last year was way better than their total yardage given up indicated. As good or better than the Packer's D in many metrics including points given up per drive and DVOA which are both significantly better at predicting success than total yards.

The D will be much better(and if it isn't we need to start looking for a new D coordinator immediately with the talent on it), it is the offense that may take a step back early as they get used to the new system. I also believe there will be an increase in turnovers on offense especially early until the complexity is dialed back later in the season. Fortunately GB defensive backs don't appear to be able to catch Vikings' QBs passes and dropped 6 balls that hit them in the hands in the two games last season.
The offense will take a step back because of a new system but the defense won't by switching to a 3-4. Makes sense. Here's the stat that shows what this D was. I don't see way better I see a D that collapses.
Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
the Vikings allowed TDs on 32.4% of opponent drives in the final 4 minutes before halftime or the end of the game
worst in the NFL
NFL average was 12%
#31 was 20.6%
The worst example in a game was letting the Lions march 75 yards with only 1:50 remaining and no timeouts for the winning TD pass on the last play.
Stats are better predictors with larger sample sizes, not cherry picked smaller ones.

Talent wins in the NFL over scheme, and the talent on D is significantly better this year than most of last year, while it has remained pretty much unchanged on offense.

Also, if going to a 3-4 causes regression on D despite replacing multiple backups or guys out of the league this year playing starting snaps with quality starters, the Vikings made a terrible decision to switch schemes.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:50 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:18 am
The offense will take a step back because of a new system but the defense won't by switching to a 3-4. Makes sense. Here's the stat that shows what this D was. I don't see way better I see a D that collapses.
Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
the Vikings allowed TDs on 32.4% of opponent drives in the final 4 minutes before halftime or the end of the game
worst in the NFL
NFL average was 12%
#31 was 20.6%
The worst example in a game was letting the Lions march 75 yards with only 1:50 remaining and no timeouts for the winning TD pass on the last play.
Stats are better predictors with larger sample sizes, not cherry picked smaller ones.

Talent wins in the NFL over scheme, and the talent on D is significantly better this year than most of last year, while it has remained pretty much unchanged on offense.

Also, if going to a 3-4 causes regression on D despite replacing multiple backups or guys out of the league this year playing starting snaps with quality starters, the Vikings made a terrible decision to switch schemes.
I think a full season tells the story for that season. That's all he was pointing out was one season. I don't know how going backwards 50 years in the NFL predicts anything. Many changes take place between seasons let alone decades. The players, coaches, rules... ect change. I also don't see an entire season as cherry picked. Yes the Lion game could be called cherry picked but that was an example. Others could be picked. 32.4 % was for the season and that tells the story compared with other teams.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:52 am
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:50 am
Stats are better predictors with larger sample sizes, not cherry picked smaller ones.

Talent wins in the NFL over scheme, and the talent on D is significantly better this year than most of last year, while it has remained pretty much unchanged on offense.

Also, if going to a 3-4 causes regression on D despite replacing multiple backups or guys out of the league this year playing starting snaps with quality starters, the Vikings made a terrible decision to switch schemes.
I think a full season tells the story for that season. That's all he was pointing out was one season. I don't know how going backwards 50 years in the NFL predicts anything. Many changes take place between seasons let alone decades. The players, coaches, rules... ect change. I also don't see an entire season as cherry picked. Yes the Lion game could be called cherry picked but that was an example. Others could be picked. 32.4 % was for the season and that tells the story compared with other teams.
Who is going back 50 years? I posted a stat that was from the full 2021 season, you posted one from the final 4 minutes of halves in the 2021 season. Do you not realize that is what you posted?
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by Maelstrom88 »

I would think they'd be in nickel most of the time as their base. Fronts will probably usually have 4 lineman but depending on the down may only have two guys in a 3 point stance. How well the defense does will depend on Hunter and Smith getting pressure.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:10 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:52 am
I think a full season tells the story for that season. That's all he was pointing out was one season. I don't know how going backwards 50 years in the NFL predicts anything. Many changes take place between seasons let alone decades. The players, coaches, rules... ect change. I also don't see an entire season as cherry picked. Yes the Lion game could be called cherry picked but that was an example. Others could be picked. 32.4 % was for the season and that tells the story compared with other teams.
Who is going back 50 years? I posted a stat that was from the full 2021 season, you posted one from the final 4 minutes of halves in the 2021 season. Do you not realize that is what you posted?
I know what I posted. Our D sucked overall but the worst in the NFL during the final 4 minutes. We folded during crunch time.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:15 am
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:10 am

Who is going back 50 years? I posted a stat that was from the full 2021 season, you posted one from the final 4 minutes of halves in the 2021 season. Do you not realize that is what you posted?
I know what I posted. Our D sucked overall but the worst in the NFL during the final 4 minutes. We folded during crunch time.
Our D was HORRIFIC last year. However, by Digging DeeeP one might find a stat we didn't suck at.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:37 pm
CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:15 am
I know what I posted. Our D sucked overall but the worst in the NFL during the final 4 minutes. We folded during crunch time.
Our D was HORRIFIC last year. However, by Digging DeeeP one might find a stat we didn't suck at.
When did looking at how good a D was at stopping teams from scoring and DVOA amount to digging deep???
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:15 am
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:10 am

Who is going back 50 years? I posted a stat that was from the full 2021 season, you posted one from the final 4 minutes of halves in the 2021 season. Do you not realize that is what you posted?
I know what I posted. Our D sucked overall but the worst in the NFL during the final 4 minutes. We folded during crunch time.
So not the entire season, and cherry picked.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by VikingLord »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:17 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:37 pm
Our D was HORRIFIC last year. However, by Digging DeeeP one might find a stat we didn't suck at.
When did looking at how good a D was at stopping teams from scoring and DVOA amount to digging deep???
The Vikings were good at stopping teams from scoring last year? Not sure I agree with that as they finished allowing an average of 25.1 PPG, which was good for 25th overall I believe.

The results were equally abysmal for their rushing, receiving and overall yardage defense (the latter good for a 30th ranking).

Granted, those stats don't tell the whole story, but the defense last year was not good in the sense that they kept the other team from scoring. They might have made them slog to do it or given up those yards and points in brief chunks and otherwise played well I suppose, but regardless, they still gave them up and their relative ranks show the end result pretty clearly.

Cousins gets a lot of flak, and I know you're not a fan of his, but if you're going to claim that the defense last year wasn't all that bad based on certain specific markers, you'd have to give Cousins the same deference as he probably has a few specific markers that showed he played well last year too.

The defense has simply got to play better this year and be more consistent overall than it was the last two seasons. Even having an elite QB can't overcome a poor, inconsistent defense.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:37 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:17 pm

When did looking at how good a D was at stopping teams from scoring and DVOA amount to digging deep???
The Vikings were good at stopping teams from scoring last year? Not sure I agree with that as they finished allowing an average of 25.1 PPG, which was good for 25th overall I believe.

The results were equally abysmal for their rushing, receiving and overall yardage defense (the latter good for a 30th ranking).

Granted, those stats don't tell the whole story, but the defense last year was not good in the sense that they kept the other team from scoring. They might have made them slog to do it or given up those yards and points in brief chunks and otherwise played well I suppose, but regardless, they still gave them up and their relative ranks show the end result pretty clearly.

Cousins gets a lot of flak, and I know you're not a fan of his, but if you're going to claim that the defense last year wasn't all that bad based on certain specific markers, you'd have to give Cousins the same deference as he probably has a few specific markers that showed he played well last year too.

The defense has simply got to play better this year and be more consistent overall than it was the last two seasons. Even having an elite QB can't overcome a poor, inconsistent defense.
VL the Defense should definitely be better this year if we can just keep the pass rushers healthy. I see 12 wins as the floor for this team given good health.

Stump maybe DVOA Defense-adjusted Value Over Average is a great stat, but I didn't have a clue what it was and I'm a reasonably well informed football fan. When you're using stats that I would guess over 95% of all NFL fans don't know you're for better or worse digging deep. Digging deep doesn't have to be a bad thing it's just that you are known to ignore all stats that don't support your stance until you find stats that do. You don't discuss/debate in good faith. I wish I didn't have to have you on ignore, but your stances kind of make my blood boil. When I see somebody quote you I will respond sometimes.
I will also try to be less sarcastic when I do. It's kind of a fun way to express my frustration, but nothing truly good comes from it.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:50 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:37 pm

The Vikings were good at stopping teams from scoring last year? Not sure I agree with that as they finished allowing an average of 25.1 PPG, which was good for 25th overall I believe.

The results were equally abysmal for their rushing, receiving and overall yardage defense (the latter good for a 30th ranking).

Granted, those stats don't tell the whole story, but the defense last year was not good in the sense that they kept the other team from scoring. They might have made them slog to do it or given up those yards and points in brief chunks and otherwise played well I suppose, but regardless, they still gave them up and their relative ranks show the end result pretty clearly.

Cousins gets a lot of flak, and I know you're not a fan of his, but if you're going to claim that the defense last year wasn't all that bad based on certain specific markers, you'd have to give Cousins the same deference as he probably has a few specific markers that showed he played well last year too.

The defense has simply got to play better this year and be more consistent overall than it was the last two seasons. Even having an elite QB can't overcome a poor, inconsistent defense.
VL the Defense should definitely be better this year if we can just keep the pass rushers healthy. I see 12 wins as the floor for this team given good health.

Stump maybe DVOA Defense-adjusted Value Over Average is a great stat, but I didn't have a clue what it was and I'm a reasonably well informed football fan. When you're using stats that I would guess over 95% of all NFL fans don't know you're for better or worse digging deep. Digging deep doesn't have to be a bad thing it's just that you are known to ignore all stats that don't support your stance until you find stats that do. You don't discuss/debate in good faith. I wish I didn't have to have you on ignore, but your stances kind of make my blood boil. When I see somebody quote you I will respond sometimes.
I will also try to be less sarcastic when I do. It's kind of a fun way to express my frustration, but nothing truly good comes from it.
DVOA is demonstrably more accurate at explaining past performance and predicting future success. Bettors can use DVOA to see how a game might play out and whether teams will extend or lose a lead if they have one. DVOA can also be used as an in-play “glossary” to help you determine if a live wager has merit. There are many of these stats that bettors use.
If this is so good very few bets would be lost. Guess what the bookmakers are still in business. Better off flipping a coin. I'll try that for our game coming up. I call it FCFW (flip coin for winner). Games are based on points not some wrinkle created to help with some other task.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:31 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:50 pm
VL the Defense should definitely be better this year if we can just keep the pass rushers healthy. I see 12 wins as the floor for this team given good health.

Stump maybe DVOA Defense-adjusted Value Over Average is a great stat, but I didn't have a clue what it was and I'm a reasonably well informed football fan. When you're using stats that I would guess over 95% of all NFL fans don't know you're for better or worse digging deep. Digging deep doesn't have to be a bad thing it's just that you are known to ignore all stats that don't support your stance until you find stats that do. You don't discuss/debate in good faith. I wish I didn't have to have you on ignore, but your stances kind of make my blood boil. When I see somebody quote you I will respond sometimes.
I will also try to be less sarcastic when I do. It's kind of a fun way to express my frustration, but nothing truly good comes from it.
DVOA is demonstrably more accurate at explaining past performance and predicting future success. Bettors can use DVOA to see how a game might play out and whether teams will extend or lose a lead if they have one. DVOA can also be used as an in-play “glossary” to help you determine if a live wager has merit. There are many of these stats that bettors use.
If this is so good very few bets would be lost. Guess what the bookmakers are still in business. Better off flipping a coin. I'll try that for our game coming up. I call it FCFW (flip coin for winner). Games are based on points not some wrinkle created to help with some other task.
It seems to me that DVOA is a pretty good stat, but I wouldn't count on it for gambling purposes. I'll more likely go with your stat FCFW. Stump knows more stats than I can imagine. That's how he is able to dig deep. He checks stat after stat after stat to find ones that support his predetermined belief. All the ones along the way that don't are discarded. A while back I pointed out to him that there is no scientific validity to coming to a conclusion first and then looking for whatever supports it. It's called assuming the premise and leads to all sorts of false conclusions.
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by Foreman44 »

:v): :point: 0
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:36 pm
Foreman44 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:22 pm It’s a battle in our house my wife being a puker diehard. We have an agreement no puker Viking stuff in house, two exceptions.

A Viking puker reversible towel. When ever wins 100; games at cards. There side faces out. It’s been purple last three months.

The other. Wife had cancer. Pastor gave her a pink autographed helmet sighed by Brett Favre.

I am going to try and change that, if that helmet stays I should be able to display my autographed helmet N.Y. pastor gave me,

Eller
Page
Marshall,
Winston.

Do not know where he gets them....
Has your wife already recovered from the cancer? If not I'll be praying for her and you. If she's recovered then you get equal rights for your helmet IMO. Are these legit NFL helmets or just cheap replicas? I too would like to know how your pastor is coming up with them.
Thank you Viking victorious.. she is in the healing process. But visits with dr sounds good.


Agree. Probably cheap replicas. Not selling anyway.

This wasn’t given to me but I got it, an Alabama football with nick Sabans autograph.

Every year around Christmas time the church raffles of around 50 gifts. Giving back to those that give all year. Donated gifts. Every bulletin is numbered. If they call your number that’s your gift.One was this Alabama football. Only thing I wanted. Some lady won it, knew I was a Bama die hard, pointed at me. Threw me a nice spiral. Sweet lady. No doubt he came up with that football. We are blessed with a giving, loving church,

Our pastor said he would go without a paycheck before he stopped giving to missions.

Any way. Just meant to say thanks
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Re: Vikings vs Pukers 9/11/22

Post by Foreman44 »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:50 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:28 pm
Why not expect us to win? Our place and we have got better the Puke have gotten worse.
New head coach, new scheme, and #31 ranked defense that needs to be fixed
We will score points. That will not be the problem.

But will our d limit the teams. Scoring 35 a game isn’t good if your D is giving up 40