Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by Texas Vike »

VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:12 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:06 am Bottom line KOC was pissed during his press conference.
I'll point out two other things in regards to KOC's attitude after the 49ers game:

- If Mond avoids the first int and instead swallows the ball there or throws it out and the Vikings get a field goal instead of the turnover, they still lose the game, just by a little less. Should that make anyone feel better?
This was a preseason game. It isn't about winning or losing. It's a tryout for a guy like Mond to show he can be an effective QB, part of that is being smart with the football when you are in FG range.

VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:12 pm - KOC's offense is not sustaining drives. I truly hope he's not going to start blaming the players for that already. The new scheme, whatever it is, isn't converting on 3rd downs and isn't scoring a lot so far. The Vikings scored what, 20 against the Raiders with 14 of those points coming late in the game via long Mond TD passes? And against the 49ers, 1-7 on 3rd downs with a total of one TD? That's pretty crappy. If KOC is truly going to try to lay that at the feet of his players, man, that bodes terribly for his prospects this season and as a head coach, and quite frankly, I've seen this movie before if he does that. We watched Childress do that and then Zimmer do it the last few seasons. I'm pretty tired of watching that movie because I know how it ends already.

In my view, KOC has far more to prove than any player on the field right now. He's got to show he can lead those players, put the talent he has in position to succeed and adjust as needed. So far, he hasn't shown that, collaborative attitude or not. It's preseason and the games don't count yet, but if anyone thinks the Vikings offense and defense are going to be magically better once the games do start to count if the scheme and coaching aren't better than they have been so far is kidding themselves.
Reports from joint practices consistently noted that the Vikings' ones were beating the 49ers' ones all week. We didn't play our starting O or D in either preseason game and almost certainly won't vs. the Broncos either. We haven't seen KOC's offense yet. The preseason is a time for vanilla offenses to see what you have for depth and make decisions about your 53 man roster. Practice, particularly the portion that's closed to the press and fans, is where a new offense is installed.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Texas Vike wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:40 pm
VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:12 pm

I'll point out two other things in regards to KOC's attitude after the 49ers game:

- If Mond avoids the first int and instead swallows the ball there or throws it out and the Vikings get a field goal instead of the turnover, they still lose the game, just by a little less. Should that make anyone feel better?
This was a preseason game. It isn't about winning or losing. It's a tryout for a guy like Mond to show he can be an effective QB, part of that is being smart with the football when you are in FG range.

VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:12 pm - KOC's offense is not sustaining drives. I truly hope he's not going to start blaming the players for that already. The new scheme, whatever it is, isn't converting on 3rd downs and isn't scoring a lot so far. The Vikings scored what, 20 against the Raiders with 14 of those points coming late in the game via long Mond TD passes? And against the 49ers, 1-7 on 3rd downs with a total of one TD? That's pretty crappy. If KOC is truly going to try to lay that at the feet of his players, man, that bodes terribly for his prospects this season and as a head coach, and quite frankly, I've seen this movie before if he does that. We watched Childress do that and then Zimmer do it the last few seasons. I'm pretty tired of watching that movie because I know how it ends already.

In my view, KOC has far more to prove than any player on the field right now. He's got to show he can lead those players, put the talent he has in position to succeed and adjust as needed. So far, he hasn't shown that, collaborative attitude or not. It's preseason and the games don't count yet, but if anyone thinks the Vikings offense and defense are going to be magically better once the games do start to count if the scheme and coaching aren't better than they have been so far is kidding themselves.
Reports from joint practices consistently noted that the Vikings' ones were beating the 49ers' ones all week. We didn't play our starting O or D in either preseason game and almost certainly won't vs. the Broncos either. We haven't seen KOC's offense yet. The preseason is a time for vanilla offenses to see what you have for depth and make decisions about your 53 man roster. Practice, particularly the portion that's closed to the press and fans, is where a new offense is installed.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by VikingLord »

Texas Vike wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:40 pm We haven't seen KOC's offense yet. The preseason is a time for vanilla offenses to see what you have for depth and make decisions about your 53 man roster. Practice, particularly the portion that's closed to the press and fans, is where a new offense is installed.
Texas Vike wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:45 pm It's funny, Judd Zulgad recently spoke about that first INT and how fans often want to blame EVERYTHING except the QB for these kinds of plays (the protection, the WR, the wind...) but that Judd loved KOC's reaction to it (I believe in the very interview you are mentioning): which was that there was nothing odd about that situation.
There is some irony here, isn't there?

I hope you're right, and you probably are, but the preseason opponents the Vikings have played so far don't seem to be having the same issues with their schemes and backups executing those schemes. They are moving the ball on 3rd downs, sustaining drives (the TOP stats are as uneven as the 3rd down conversion rates for the Vikings would suggest), and scoring a bit more than the Vikings have so far.

Yeah, that could be because KOC is just holding his cards close to the vest on both sides of the ball, waiting to unleash the full power of his schemes once the starters hit the field. Or, it could be real cause for concern, because it doesn't stand to reason that the Vikings preseason opponents are somehow not holding back in their approach too or also playing their backup players.

Anyway, I get it. Mond is an easy explanation for the failures on offense, as is Mannion to a lesser degree. They are the lead singers of their respective band in the preseason and they stand out as a result. But let's not forget that KOC is a rookie head coach who was formerly an offensive coordinator who has never called his own plays. I don't think your faith in him is warranted quite yet. You can be reasonably optimistic because the track record isn't there, but from where I sit KOC could just as easily be Brad Childress Part 2 as he is the next Bud Grant.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by makila »

Lions went 4-0 in the preseason the year they went 0-16.

Patriots went 0-4 in a preseason they went 11-5 in the regular season.

W/L record in the preseason means about nothing.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by Texas Vike »

VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:31 pm
Texas Vike wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:40 pm We haven't seen KOC's offense yet. The preseason is a time for vanilla offenses to see what you have for depth and make decisions about your 53 man roster. Practice, particularly the portion that's closed to the press and fans, is where a new offense is installed.
Texas Vike wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:45 pm It's funny, Judd Zulgad recently spoke about that first INT and how fans often want to blame EVERYTHING except the QB for these kinds of plays (the protection, the WR, the wind...) but that Judd loved KOC's reaction to it (I believe in the very interview you are mentioning): which was that there was nothing odd about that situation.
VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:31 pm There is some irony here, isn't there?
If you perceive irony here, please elaborate. Perhaps one of us is missing something. I suppose I could make a guess: in addition to other justifications for Mond's interception, you would like to also blame the vanilla offense?

VL: I almost always see things in a similar way to you, and I've probably given you half of the 'likes' you have :lol:. But in this thread I feel like we just have fundamentally different opinions. I always appreciate that you are respectful when disagreeing though. So If I'm missing something ironic, do tell.
VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:31 pm I hope you're right, and you probably are, but the preseason opponents the Vikings have played so far don't seem to be having the same issues with their schemes and backups executing those schemes. They are moving the ball on 3rd downs, sustaining drives (the TOP stats are as uneven as the 3rd down conversion rates for the Vikings would suggest), and scoring a bit more than the Vikings have so far.

Yeah, that could be because KOC is just holding his cards close to the vest on both sides of the ball, waiting to unleash the full power of his schemes once the starters hit the field. Or, it could be real cause for concern, because it doesn't stand to reason that the Vikings preseason opponents are somehow not holding back in their approach too or also playing their backup players.

Anyway, I get it. Mond is an easy explanation for the failures on offense, as is Mannion to a lesser degree. They are the lead singers of their respective band in the preseason and they stand out as a result. But let's not forget that KOC is a rookie head coach who was formerly an offensive coordinator who has never called his own plays. I don't think your faith in him is warranted quite yet. You can be reasonably optimistic because the track record isn't there, but from where I sit KOC could just as easily be Brad Childress Part 2 as he is the next Bud Grant.
Couple of things here. 1) I know you didn't watch at least one of the preseason games while posting in one of the threads. Have you watched them now? Neither the 49ers nor the Vikings played their starters on Saturday. They also don't show anything from their actual schemes--they just do vanilla / generic stuff. The entire exercise is solely to evaluate backups. The preseason's entire meaning has shifted. They did play their starters during joint practices mid week, which were, by all accounts, very competitive and even nearly boiled over into fights (Bradbury threw a punch, apparently, but did not get kicked out). So anything we saw during the game on Saturday? I don't think it will reflect what our team will look like vs. GB on 9/11. The only thing that we and the coaches can conclude from the preseason games is essentially who should make the 53 and whether someone's development is on track. Thus, Harrison Hand got cut, and they chose to trade a 7th for Mullens.

Last point: KOC being a rookie HC is not lost on me at all. I am sure there will be bumps in the road. You seem to imply that I have a great amount of faith in him, but I'm not sure what led to that assumption/ conclusion. I just think Mond sucks and is in no way ready to be a QB2 and is still very much a project. That doesn't mean I have huge faith in KOC. I do think he's very articulate, intelligent, and has a much better communication style and ability than Zimmer. Whether that translates to wins? Time will tell.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by StumpHunter »

Looks like Mannion is getting all the reps with #2s.

I hate to say it, but I think he ends up being the backup again this season unless Mullens really shines over the next two weeks in a limited opportunity. I don't even know if Mullens plays in the third game.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by Texas Vike »

StumpHunter wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:46 am Looks like Mannion is getting all the reps with #2s.

I hate to say it, but I think he ends up being the backup again this season unless Mullens really shines over the next two weeks in a limited opportunity. I don't even know if Mullens plays in the third game.
I heard Mathew Coller and Will Ragatz express this opinion, but that seems really odd to me. They ostensibly brought Mullens in because they felt they needed to add competition for the QB2 position and that Mond/ Mannion hadn't looked good enough. I would fully expect Mullens to be given at least a quarter to show what he can do in Saturday's game vs. the Broncos. It is odd that Mond isn't even getting reps in practice now.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by CharVike »

Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:13 am
StumpHunter wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:46 am Looks like Mannion is getting all the reps with #2s.

I hate to say it, but I think he ends up being the backup again this season unless Mullens really shines over the next two weeks in a limited opportunity. I don't even know if Mullens plays in the third game.
I heard Mathew Coller and Will Ragatz express this opinion, but that seems really odd to me. They ostensibly brought Mullens in because they felt they needed to add competition for the QB2 position and that Mond/ Mannion hadn't looked good enough. I would fully expect Mullens to be given at least a quarter to show what he can do in Saturday's game vs. the Broncos. It is odd that Mond isn't even getting reps in practice now.
Hopefully they don't carry 3 QBs again. Mullens was going to be cut anyway and they made some nothing trade to bring the guy in and throw in practice. Our new FG kicker was a QB in high school so if it's an emergency he can man the spot for few plays. Same as Mond did last year. They need to fill that 3rd QB spot with a CB / OL player to provide depth. Booty has a bad ankle which has acted up in camp. They might need an extra CB on the roster. On the OL side they can't go in with nothing at OT backup. They need a final cut to fill that spot or an addition to it.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by VikingLord »

Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am If you perceive irony here, please elaborate. Perhaps one of us is missing something. I suppose I could make a guess: in addition to other justifications for Mond's interception, you would like to also blame the vanilla offense?
The irony was that Zulgad said people are eager to deflect blame for poor QB play from the QB, but it seems like it's OK to blame poor offensive performance overall on the players/situation/preseason and not the coach. Maybe I read what you wrote wrong, and if so I apologize. Also, it is preseason, but at the same time, everyone is evaluating players and everyone is playing vanilla and yet the Vikings offense and defense have been woefully outperformed in both games. Preseason or not, backups or not, vanilla schemes or not, I don't think that should be happening, and I don't think KOC should get a pass and the benefit of mitigating factors if a young QB like Mond doesn't also.
Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am Couple of things here. 1) I know you didn't watch at least one of the preseason games while posting in one of the threads. Have you watched them now?
I watched both of them, so I saw both QBs play as well as the overall team play. That's one of the reasons why I'm not dumping on Mond or too high on KOC's performance thus far.
Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am They did play their starters during joint practices mid week, which were, by all accounts, very competitive and even nearly boiled over into fights (Bradbury threw a punch, apparently, but did not get kicked out). So anything we saw during the game on Saturday? I don't think it will reflect what our team will look like vs. GB on 9/11.
I hope you're right. I'm getting less convinced by the preseason game that KOC is suddenly going to unleash on the rest of the league, but if he is, then doing it against the Packers in the opener is the perfect time.
Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am Last point: KOC being a rookie HC is not lost on me at all. I am sure there will be bumps in the road. You seem to imply that I have a great amount of faith in him, but I'm not sure what led to that assumption/ conclusion. I just think Mond sucks and is in no way ready to be a QB2 and is still very much a project. That doesn't mean I have huge faith in KOC. I do think he's very articulate, intelligent, and has a much better communication style and ability than Zimmer. Whether that translates to wins? Time will tell.
I was reading into what you said in the quoted post about this being the preseason, vanilla offense, backups, etc. I probably read more into that than you intended.

As for Mond, we do see him differently. He's definitely not ready for prime time as even a backup, and I think we agree on that, but I see potential that can be developed. Whether it is developed depends on said head coach being willing to help coach him along with other coaches and also being willing to be patient while Mond is willing to put in the work. So I see a project with potential in Mond where I think many others already have written him off.

To be fully transparent, I wasn't a big fan of the Mond draft pick. I wanted the Vikings to take Trask from Florida State or Mills from Stanford. So I wasn't enthused by the pick, but Mond is growing on me based on some of the things I've seen him do.

And to be further transparent, I felt in large part the same about the Booth pick in this last draft. I wasn't too happy about that one either, and while he's made a few mistakes (2 penalties on the same play as an example), I also see a lot of potential there and want to see him get a chance to grow and improve as well.

Anyway, I appreciate your posts on this board as well. You add a lot of great perspective to the discussion.

Thanks for all the Likes too... :v):
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Was definitely a fan of this move. Mond just isn’t cutting it and we all know mannion doesn’t either. People have to understand though, these guys are BACKUPS for a reason. I swear sometimes people think we should go sign Tom Brady as a backup. Not matter what, every year someone is complaining about who the backup is. People complained about keenum too. Like what do you guys want? Lol. Case Keenum was absolute as# prior to coming to the Vikings. And then had a miracle season. Of course he’s back to where he belongs though, the bench. Where Mullens belongs as well. But again, that’s expected. Luckily (knock on wood) we have arguably the most durable QB in the nfl. But if he needs to moss time, Mullens is actually someone that could at least give us a fighting chance. He’s actually very similar to keenum in the sense of wasn’t great in previous starts but was a big time college QB that was a slinger. I’ll take that as a backup any day
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

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If this means Mannion is getting cut then it's probably the best use of a 7th round pick in franchise history.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:41 pm
Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am If you perceive irony here, please elaborate. Perhaps one of us is missing something. I suppose I could make a guess: in addition to other justifications for Mond's interception, you would like to also blame the vanilla offense?
The irony was that Zulgad said people are eager to deflect blame for poor QB play from the QB, but it seems like it's OK to blame poor offensive performance overall on the players/situation/preseason and not the coach. Maybe I read what you wrote wrong, and if so I apologize. Also, it is preseason, but at the same time, everyone is evaluating players and everyone is playing vanilla and yet the Vikings offense and defense have been woefully outperformed in both games. Preseason or not, backups or not, vanilla schemes or not, I don't think that should be happening, and I don't think KOC should get a pass and the benefit of mitigating factors if a young QB like Mond doesn't also.
Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am Couple of things here. 1) I know you didn't watch at least one of the preseason games while posting in one of the threads. Have you watched them now?
I watched both of them, so I saw both QBs play as well as the overall team play. That's one of the reasons why I'm not dumping on Mond or too high on KOC's performance thus far.
Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am They did play their starters during joint practices mid week, which were, by all accounts, very competitive and even nearly boiled over into fights (Bradbury threw a punch, apparently, but did not get kicked out). So anything we saw during the game on Saturday? I don't think it will reflect what our team will look like vs. GB on 9/11.
I hope you're right. I'm getting less convinced by the preseason game that KOC is suddenly going to unleash on the rest of the league, but if he is, then doing it against the Packers in the opener is the perfect time.
Texas Vike wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 am Last point: KOC being a rookie HC is not lost on me at all. I am sure there will be bumps in the road. You seem to imply that I have a great amount of faith in him, but I'm not sure what led to that assumption/ conclusion. I just think Mond sucks and is in no way ready to be a QB2 and is still very much a project. That doesn't mean I have huge faith in KOC. I do think he's very articulate, intelligent, and has a much better communication style and ability than Zimmer. Whether that translates to wins? Time will tell.
I was reading into what you said in the quoted post about this being the preseason, vanilla offense, backups, etc. I probably read more into that than you intended.

As for Mond, we do see him differently. He's definitely not ready for prime time as even a backup, and I think we agree on that, but I see potential that can be developed. Whether it is developed depends on said head coach being willing to help coach him along with other coaches and also being willing to be patient while Mond is willing to put in the work. So I see a project with potential in Mond where I think many others already have written him off.

To be fully transparent, I wasn't a big fan of the Mond draft pick. I wanted the Vikings to take Trask from Florida State or Mills from Stanford. So I wasn't enthused by the pick, but Mond is growing on me based on some of the things I've seen him do.

And to be further transparent, I felt in large part the same about the Booth pick in this last draft. I wasn't too happy about that one either, and while he's made a few mistakes (2 penalties on the same play as an example), I also see a lot of potential there and want to see him get a chance to grow and improve as well.

Anyway, I appreciate your posts on this board as well. You add a lot of great perspective to the discussion.

Thanks for all the Likes too... :v):
I don't give a rat's #### if we lose preseason games when our actual players aren't playing. You read way too much into that IMO.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by Texas Vike »

Something that has changed in the last 5 or so years is the way teams are looking at and using preseason games.

The players, via the NFLPA (w/ JC Tretter at the forefront) have managed to reduce the number of preseason games. Most coaches do not play their starters at all, and, in fact, if you play you can basically take it as a sign that the coaches think you haven't yet proven your starter status. Something I hear a lot of reporters (in their podcasts) state, repeatedly, is that most coaches in the NFL now prefer practices for making evaluations because they can control situations better. They think it's safer for the players and I suspect it is also because it is less visible to rivals.

So the joint practices were reported to be super intense and competitive. By all accounts JJ looked uncoverable. Our OL held up for the most part, except Watt beating Darrisaw a few times (to be expected, especially if he gets no help).

The other practice that seemed to matter, and that might concern us more, is the scrimmage between the O and D that happened this week and in which the D dominated. Cousins threw 3 picks and had 2 others that could've been picks. Z'Darius apparently looked beast mode. Cousins had long chats with JJ and Adam after the interceptions and got on the same page about whatever confusion had caused the int.

I used to LOVE watching preseason games and used to read all kinds of signs into them. Now? I like them to see how our depth is (still not great) and to get a look at our draft picks and about guys I'm hearing are having good camps (Tryshton Jackson, for example). Think of this: T.Y. McGill, who has 3.5 sacks and has been a preseason game WARRIOR was spotted in practice as STILL lining up with the 3rd team D line. To me, that dude passes the eye test and deserves his shot at least to be with the 2nd team and get some playing time... but it indicates just how UNIMPORTANT these preseason games are to the coaching staff.

Back to the thread's stated purpose: the PS games aren't wholly devoid of purpose, obviously, as the coaches and GM arrived at the conclusion that our backup QBs weren't good enough. Mullens seems like a slightly better option and was acquired on the cheap. I look forward to seeing him play tonight. I hope that the speculation that Mannion will play the entire game is incorrect.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

Texas Vike wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:34 am Something that has changed in the last 5 or so years is the way teams are looking at and using preseason games.

The players, via the NFLPA (w/ JC Tretter at the forefront) have managed to reduce the number of preseason games. Most coaches do not play their starters at all, and, in fact, if you play you can basically take it as a sign that the coaches think you haven't yet proven your starter status. Something I hear a lot of reporters (in their podcasts) state, repeatedly, is that most coaches in the NFL now prefer practices for making evaluations because they can control situations better. They think it's safer for the players and I suspect it is also because it is less visible to rivals.

So the joint practices were reported to be super intense and competitive. By all accounts JJ looked uncoverable. Our OL held up for the most part, except Watt beating Darrisaw a few times (to be expected, especially if he gets no help).

The other practice that seemed to matter, and that might concern us more, is the scrimmage between the O and D that happened this week and in which the D dominated. Cousins threw 3 picks and had 2 others that could've been picks. Z'Darius apparently looked beast mode. Cousins had long chats with JJ and Adam after the interceptions and got on the same page about whatever confusion had caused the int.

I used to LOVE watching preseason games and used to read all kinds of signs into them. Now? I like them to see how our depth is (still not great) and to get a look at our draft picks and about guys I'm hearing are having good camps (Tryshton Jackson, for example). Think of this: T.Y. McGill, who has 3.5 sacks and has been a preseason game WARRIOR was spotted in practice as STILL lining up with the 3rd team D line. To me, that dude passes the eye test and deserves his shot at least to be with the 2nd team and get some playing time... but it indicates just how UNIMPORTANT these preseason games are to the coaching staff.

Back to the thread's stated purpose: the PS games aren't wholly devoid of purpose, obviously, as the coaches and GM arrived at the conclusion that our backup QBs weren't good enough. Mullens seems like a slightly better option and was acquired on the cheap. I look forward to seeing him play tonight. I hope that the speculation that Mannion will play the entire game is incorrect.
I good post. I agree with all of it, especially the PS games value, and Mullens value. We are dealing with the bottom of the barrel for QB2's and 3's, but that must be the way KO wants things to be. And I personally think he is better than Mannion, and a lot better than Mond (needs at least another year before he's close to being a QB2.
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Re: Vikings trade 7th round pick for Raiders' QB Nick Mullens

Post by Texas Vike »

https://twitter.com/christomasson/statu ... 2379128832

Looks like Mullens isn't playing tonight. I guess they have seen enough from him to feel confident he's our #2. My read is that Mannion and Mond might be fighting for a practice squad spot, at best.

Cuts are tomorrow, right? We will know how it all shakes out soon enough.