8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:09 am I don't know much about Mond and his ability between the ears or his grasp of the playbook or defenses. I have no idea. But I assume that when it's time to get to the 53, and the coaches feel that he and Mannion are neck and neck, it just may come down to the guy with the greater knowledge and not the most athletic. That happens every year with every team. Those smarts may just be what keeps Mannion around. Not that he's buds with Kirk or that Kirk insisted he stays or he'll wilt. Pro sports don't work like that.
I question the "brilliant football mind" narrative a little, especially for a QB, mostly because the great QBs I've watched are great typically because of how well they read the field post snap and can adjust to what they see and/or create extra time and opportunity for themselves and their receivers when plays break down.

If a great football mind means a guy who can see or sense where a defense is vulnerable and do what is necessary to deliver the ball quickly and accurately to exploit what he sees, or even a guy who can come up to the line and call out adjustments because he recognizes everything the defense is trying to do pre-snap to deceive him, I don't see Mannion having that. Whatever he has doesn't seem to translate to how he performs on the field. He's not terrible I guess, but I don't see anything special about him either.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by vikeinmontana »

VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:08 pm
vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:09 am I don't know much about Mond and his ability between the ears or his grasp of the playbook or defenses. I have no idea. But I assume that when it's time to get to the 53, and the coaches feel that he and Mannion are neck and neck, it just may come down to the guy with the greater knowledge and not the most athletic. That happens every year with every team. Those smarts may just be what keeps Mannion around. Not that he's buds with Kirk or that Kirk insisted he stays or he'll wilt. Pro sports don't work like that.
I question the "brilliant football mind" narrative a little, especially for a QB, mostly because the great QBs I've watched are great typically because of how well they read the field post snap and can adjust to what they see and/or create extra time and opportunity for themselves and their receivers when plays break down.

If a great football mind means a guy who can see or sense where a defense is vulnerable and do what is necessary to deliver the ball quickly and accurately to exploit what he sees, or even a guy who can come up to the line and call out adjustments because he recognizes everything the defense is trying to do pre-snap to deceive him, I don't see Mannion having that. Whatever he has doesn't seem to translate to how he performs on the field. He's not terrible I guess, but I don't see anything special about him either.
I'm simply saying it's been reported as long as he's been in the league that he has a high football IQ. If he wants to, everything is pointing to him being a great coach after his playing career. As I said, there is a long list of guys who couldn't put it together at the NFL level, and were known to have great football minds and went on to very successful coaching careers. Look at guys who are arguably considered the best NFL coaches right now. None of them had good NFL careers. By those standards, Mannion already surpasses guys like McVay and our own McConnell. So I have no problem agreeing with his past and present coaches and teammates when they say he's an intelligent player with a very high football IQ. It's why I believe he's entering his 7th season in a very difficult league with what appears to be average talent come playing time.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:14 pm
VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:08 pm

I question the "brilliant football mind" narrative a little, especially for a QB, mostly because the great QBs I've watched are great typically because of how well they read the field post snap and can adjust to what they see and/or create extra time and opportunity for themselves and their receivers when plays break down.

If a great football mind means a guy who can see or sense where a defense is vulnerable and do what is necessary to deliver the ball quickly and accurately to exploit what he sees, or even a guy who can come up to the line and call out adjustments because he recognizes everything the defense is trying to do pre-snap to deceive him, I don't see Mannion having that. Whatever he has doesn't seem to translate to how he performs on the field. He's not terrible I guess, but I don't see anything special about him either.
I'm simply saying it's been reported as long as he's been in the league that he has a high football IQ. If he wants to, everything is pointing to him being a great coach after his playing career. As I said, there is a long list of guys who couldn't put it together at the NFL level, and were known to have great football minds and went on to very successful coaching careers. Look at guys who are arguably considered the best NFL coaches right now. None of them had good NFL careers. By those standards, Mannion already surpasses guys like McVay and our own McConnell. So I have no problem agreeing with his past and present coaches and teammates when they say he's an intelligent player with a very high football IQ. It's why I believe he's entering his 7th season in a very difficult league with what appears to be average talent come playing time.
Then we should get a high IQ coach for Kirk. And give Mond the reigns of QB2. And hopefully show Mannion the door. Tired of this team not trying to develop its own QBs.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by vikeinmontana »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:20 pm
vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:14 pm
I'm simply saying it's been reported as long as he's been in the league that he has a high football IQ. If he wants to, everything is pointing to him being a great coach after his playing career. As I said, there is a long list of guys who couldn't put it together at the NFL level, and were known to have great football minds and went on to very successful coaching careers. Look at guys who are arguably considered the best NFL coaches right now. None of them had good NFL careers. By those standards, Mannion already surpasses guys like McVay and our own McConnell. So I have no problem agreeing with his past and present coaches and teammates when they say he's an intelligent player with a very high football IQ. It's why I believe he's entering his 7th season in a very difficult league with what appears to be average talent come playing time.
Then we should get a high IQ coach for Kirk. And give Mond the reigns of QB2. And hopefully show Mannion the door. Tired of this team not trying to develop its own QBs.
Maybe they will? Especially when the time comes to go to 53 and they think Mond is better than Mannion. Or if they are dead even but they like Monds upside better. My only point is if when that time comes, and if Mannion is still here, and maybe even still #2, I think it's because the coaches trust he's more prepared than Mond, and not because Mannion is buddies with Kirk.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:03 pm
JJBreaksRecords wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:20 pm

Then we should get a high IQ coach for Kirk. And give Mond the reigns of QB2. And hopefully show Mannion the door. Tired of this team not trying to develop its own QBs.
Maybe they will? Especially when the time comes to go to 53 and they think Mond is better than Mannion. Or if they are dead even but they like Monds upside better. My only point is if when that time comes, and if Mannion is still here, and maybe even still #2, I think it's because the coaches trust he's more prepared than Mond, and not because Mannion is buddies with Kirk.
You might be right. But then the new HC/GM dont know what they are doing. And are wasting time developing a QB. They should be looking for a coach to carry Kirks water. Or maybe they plan on extending Kirk for even longer so they wont need a coach or a QB2. :confused:
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:14 pm I'm simply saying it's been reported as long as he's been in the league that he has a high football IQ. If he wants to, everything is pointing to him being a great coach after his playing career. As I said, there is a long list of guys who couldn't put it together at the NFL level, and were known to have great football minds and went on to very successful coaching careers. Look at guys who are arguably considered the best NFL coaches right now. None of them had good NFL careers. By those standards, Mannion already surpasses guys like McVay and our own McConnell. So I have no problem agreeing with his past and present coaches and teammates when they say he's an intelligent player with a very high football IQ. It's why I believe he's entering his 7th season in a very difficult league with what appears to be average talent come playing time.
That's fair. I just want to see it translate on the field. If Mannion wins the backup QB spot, as you say, it should be because he performed at the level necessary to win it.

To be totally transparent, I liked what I saw from Mond in that preseason game against the Raiders. Mond possesses some attributes that could evolve into him becoming an impact starting QB, so I'd like to see him get that chance to develop. But I'm not there at every practice, film review, meeting, etc, and I don't know what the coaches are seeing from both on a daily basis. I do have confidence that KOC will make the decision that is best for the team. I did not have that confidence with Zimmer at the end and felt he was biased when it came time to make decisions on certain players that he preferred for one reason or another.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by CharVike »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:14 pm
VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:08 pm

I question the "brilliant football mind" narrative a little, especially for a QB, mostly because the great QBs I've watched are great typically because of how well they read the field post snap and can adjust to what they see and/or create extra time and opportunity for themselves and their receivers when plays break down.

If a great football mind means a guy who can see or sense where a defense is vulnerable and do what is necessary to deliver the ball quickly and accurately to exploit what he sees, or even a guy who can come up to the line and call out adjustments because he recognizes everything the defense is trying to do pre-snap to deceive him, I don't see Mannion having that. Whatever he has doesn't seem to translate to how he performs on the field. He's not terrible I guess, but I don't see anything special about him either.
I'm simply saying it's been reported as long as he's been in the league that he has a high football IQ. If he wants to, everything is pointing to him being a great coach after his playing career. As I said, there is a long list of guys who couldn't put it together at the NFL level, and were known to have great football minds and went on to very successful coaching careers. Look at guys who are arguably considered the best NFL coaches right now. None of them had good NFL careers. By those standards, Mannion already surpasses guys like McVay and our own McConnell. So I have no problem agreeing with his past and present coaches and teammates when they say he's an intelligent player with a very high football IQ. It's why I believe he's entering his 7th season in a very difficult league with what appears to be average talent come playing time.
For a guy to make it 7 years in the NFL he must have something going for him. The media is all over the board with their QB rankings. Fans are the same way. The Ravens fans think their backup could start for half the teams. I heard him mention on this board as a guy to bring in. I say for what? Mannion reminds me of one of our guys Wade Wilson who became a coach. Wilson never showed anything but lead us on one of the best playoff runs I have ever seen. Nothing ever pointed to him being able to do that. Him along with the team got hot at the right time. AC also stepped up and set the stage on fire. Every fan has opinions about players. It's part of the football entertainment. I'm not even concerned with the backup QB position. We could have Jones sitting there but we didn't draft him. We have a vet who hasn't done much and a 2nd year guy who might become a backup someday if everything breaks right for him. He's at square one working on the basics. If he needs to face live bullets it won't be good. Preseason isn't live bullets.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

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VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:08 pm
vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:09 am I don't know much about Mond and his ability between the ears or his grasp of the playbook or defenses. I have no idea. But I assume that when it's time to get to the 53, and the coaches feel that he and Mannion are neck and neck, it just may come down to the guy with the greater knowledge and not the most athletic. That happens every year with every team. Those smarts may just be what keeps Mannion around. Not that he's buds with Kirk or that Kirk insisted he stays or he'll wilt. Pro sports don't work like that.
I question the "brilliant football mind" narrative a little, especially for a QB, mostly because the great QBs I've watched are great typically because of how well they read the field post snap and can adjust to what they see and/or create extra time and opportunity for themselves and their receivers when plays break down.

If a great football mind means a guy who can see or sense where a defense is vulnerable and do what is necessary to deliver the ball quickly and accurately to exploit what he sees, or even a guy who can come up to the line and call out adjustments because he recognizes everything the defense is trying to do pre-snap to deceive him, I don't see Mannion having that. Whatever he has doesn't seem to translate to how he performs on the field. He's not terrible I guess, but I don't see anything special about him either.
If we wanted brilliant football minds there are plenty of them on this forum. None of us could be a backup QB but we have the brilliant part nailed. :beerock:
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

StanM wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:06 am
VikingLord wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:08 pm

I question the "brilliant football mind" narrative a little, especially for a QB, mostly because the great QBs I've watched are great typically because of how well they read the field post snap and can adjust to what they see and/or create extra time and opportunity for themselves and their receivers when plays break down.

If a great football mind means a guy who can see or sense where a defense is vulnerable and do what is necessary to deliver the ball quickly and accurately to exploit what he sees, or even a guy who can come up to the line and call out adjustments because he recognizes everything the defense is trying to do pre-snap to deceive him, I don't see Mannion having that. Whatever he has doesn't seem to translate to how he performs on the field. He's not terrible I guess, but I don't see anything special about him either.
If we wanted brilliant football minds there are plenty of them on this forum. None of us could be a backup QB but we have the brilliant part nailed. :beerock:
Absolutely BRILLIANT FOOTBALL MINDS :lol: :govikes: :banana:
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

CharVike wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:05 am I'm not even concerned with the backup QB position. We could have Jones sitting there but we didn't draft him. We have a vet who hasn't done much and a 2nd year guy who might become a backup someday if everything breaks right for him. He's at square one working on the basics. If he needs to face live bullets it won't be good. Preseason isn't live bullets.
I am the only person who is excited about Mond's potential after the Raiders game?

Yeah, it's preseason. Yeah, he didn't do it against the starters. Yeah, he badly missed some throws, including on what was a pretty amazing scramble drill to keep a play alive long after it should have been dead.

But, he calmed down and made some pretty nice reads and throws. He showed some ability, both to scramble and keep his eyes downfield looking for a pass as well as good ball security and a nice, quick and tight release.

He's not ready to start, but I liked what I saw from him, especially as compared to Mannion. For me, Mond's performance relative to Mannion stood out similarly to how Ingram's performance relative to Davis stood out at RG. Perfect? No. Much, much better with objective cause to believe it can improve further with coaching and time? Yes.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

VikingLord wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:23 pm
CharVike wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:05 am I'm not even concerned with the backup QB position. We could have Jones sitting there but we didn't draft him. We have a vet who hasn't done much and a 2nd year guy who might become a backup someday if everything breaks right for him. He's at square one working on the basics. If he needs to face live bullets it won't be good. Preseason isn't live bullets.
I am the only person who is excited about Mond's potential after the Raiders game?

Yeah, it's preseason. Yeah, he didn't do it against the starters. Yeah, he badly missed some throws, including on what was a pretty amazing scramble drill to keep a play alive long after it should have been dead.

But, he calmed down and made some pretty nice reads and throws. He showed some ability, both to scramble and keep his eyes downfield looking for a pass as well as good ball security and a nice, quick and tight release.

He's not ready to start, but I liked what I saw from him, especially as compared to Mannion. For me, Mond's performance relative to Mannion stood out similarly to how Ingram's performance relative to Davis stood out at RG. Perfect? No. Much, much better with objective cause to believe it can improve further with coaching and time? Yes.
I agree. I thought Mond did well, and is still having a good camp. All the QB's missed passes. Mannion's long TD yesterday was way under thrown, but the WR made a great catch. Its TC, thats what its here for, to train. Mannion offers nothing more than being a babysitter, but Mond has shown some good stuff, and some really ugly stuff.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:32 pm
VikingLord wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:23 pm

I am the only person who is excited about Mond's potential after the Raiders game?

Yeah, it's preseason. Yeah, he didn't do it against the starters. Yeah, he badly missed some throws, including on what was a pretty amazing scramble drill to keep a play alive long after it should have been dead.

But, he calmed down and made some pretty nice reads and throws. He showed some ability, both to scramble and keep his eyes downfield looking for a pass as well as good ball security and a nice, quick and tight release.

He's not ready to start, but I liked what I saw from him, especially as compared to Mannion. For me, Mond's performance relative to Mannion stood out similarly to how Ingram's performance relative to Davis stood out at RG. Perfect? No. Much, much better with objective cause to believe it can improve further with coaching and time? Yes.
I agree. I thought Mond did well, and is still having a good camp. All the QB's missed passes. Mannion's long TD yesterday was way under thrown, but the WR made a great catch. Its TC, thats what its here for, to train. Mannion offers nothing more than being a babysitter, but Mond has shown some good stuff, and some really ugly stuff.
I don't believe Mond showed enough to create any excitement. At least not for me. I think we're just so desperate for any signs of life from him that we may be grasping at straws. As you said above JJ he's shown some good and some really ugly stuff. I hope I'm wrong and Mond can elevate his game to a solid backup QB level. I don't think he will.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:08 pm
JJBreaksRecords wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:32 pm

I agree. I thought Mond did well, and is still having a good camp. All the QB's missed passes. Mannion's long TD yesterday was way under thrown, but the WR made a great catch. Its TC, thats what its here for, to train. Mannion offers nothing more than being a babysitter, but Mond has shown some good stuff, and some really ugly stuff.
I don't believe Mond showed enough to create any excitement. At least not for me. I think we're just so desperate for any signs of life from him that we may be grasping at straws. As you said above JJ he's shown some good and some really ugly stuff. I hope I'm wrong and Mond can elevate his game to a solid backup QB level. I don't think he will.
Mannion has never been a quality QB2, yet he is still here. If you think Mannion looks better than Mond, I want what you are smoking. I havent seen any improvement in Mannion since he has been here. Remember him last year? I think we have a better shot, if, god forbid, Cousins goes down, going with Mond. Go listen to Judd on PD and hear what he says about Mond's improvement. And what he thinks of Mannion. And he hates Mond, a lot.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:45 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:08 pm
I don't believe Mond showed enough to create any excitement. At least not for me. I think we're just so desperate for any signs of life from him that we may be grasping at straws. As you said above JJ he's shown some good and some really ugly stuff. I hope I'm wrong and Mond can elevate his game to a solid backup QB level. I don't think he will.
Mannion has never been a quality QB2, yet he is still here. If you think Mannion looks better than Mond, I want what you are smoking. I havent seen any improvement in Mannion since he has been here. Remember him last year? I think we have a better shot, if, god forbid, Cousins goes down, going with Mond. Go listen to Judd on PD and hear what he says about Mond's improvement. And what he thinks of Mannion. And he hates Mond, a lot.
JJ why so defensive. I agreed with at least part of your last comment. It was actually some original content that as far as I know didn't come from Stump. Did I ever refer to Mannion? Why are you bringing him up. I was talking about Mond only. Not in comparison to any particular player, but in comparison to the average backup QB. So if Judd hates Mond a lot he's more negative on him than I am. I just don't expect Mond to ever rise to the level of adequate Backup QB.

Just so you know my thoughts on Mannion I agree that Mond is more likely to rise to the level of adequate backup than Mannion, but that doesn't mean I need to believe that Mond will rise to that level.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:23 pm
CharVike wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:05 am I'm not even concerned with the backup QB position. We could have Jones sitting there but we didn't draft him. We have a vet who hasn't done much and a 2nd year guy who might become a backup someday if everything breaks right for him. He's at square one working on the basics. If he needs to face live bullets it won't be good. Preseason isn't live bullets.
I am the only person who is excited about Mond's potential after the Raiders game?

Yeah, it's preseason. Yeah, he didn't do it against the starters. Yeah, he badly missed some throws, including on what was a pretty amazing scramble drill to keep a play alive long after it should have been dead.

But, he calmed down and made some pretty nice reads and throws. He showed some ability, both to scramble and keep his eyes downfield looking for a pass as well as good ball security and a nice, quick and tight release.

He's not ready to start, but I liked what I saw from him, especially as compared to Mannion. For me, Mond's performance relative to Mannion stood out similarly to how Ingram's performance relative to Davis stood out at RG. Perfect? No. Much, much better with objective cause to believe it can improve further with coaching and time? Yes.
Your're not the only person excited. He doesn't seem to be aware of what's going on around him. We'll see how it turns out. Mannion looks like a guy that will never be anything. I was trying to be positive but he showed nothing his entire career. Will that change? Probably not. Davis is a FA guy and there's a reason why he was a FA. But hopefully he can be a backup that can at least hold his own if needed. Ingram is getting into the mix which is a good sign. Much better than W Davis.