Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

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Pondering Her Percy
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Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Wanted to keep bringing in some more good draft discussion.

I’ve been pondering this question in my mind the last month or so. I know many of us including myself have kind of honed in on taking a corner however I’m trying to look at this from the other side as well.

Yes our corners are not very deep or a strong suit by any means. However the more I think about this front seven, we have 6 solid to elite starters but we are still missing one guy to complete this front 7.

Now depending on how Donatell wants to construct this 3-4 front 7, I’m seeing 2 options.

Option 1:

3 down lineman of: Tomlinson, Phillips and BLANK

2 EDGE of: Hunter and Smith

2 MLBs of: Kendricks and Hicks


OR

Option 2:

3 down lineman of: Tomlinson, Phillips and Hunter

2 EDGE of: Smith and BLANK

2 MLBs of: Kendricks and Hicks

….so as you guys can see here, we are still kind of missing one guy. I think the set positions are Kendricks and Hicks in the middle and down lineman of Phillips and Tomlinson. EDGE of Zadarius Smith. The question mark is how/where they plan on utilizing Hunter. He’s our chess piece here because we know he’s very good with his hand in the dirt also.

So when it comes to the draft, if we have someone like Jordan Davis sitting there at 12 (he would fit into option 1), do we take him?

Or for option 2, maybe trade down and select someone like LB- Devin Lloyd (a favorite of mine). Someone that’s more of a coverage/rangy outside LB.

I’m interested to hear your guys’ takes here. The sounds of having 3 down lineman of Tomlinson, Phillips and Jordan Davis is very enticing. The sounds of having a Devin Lloyd on the outside is enticing as well.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by fiestavike »

My bet is that Hunter plays as a down lineman, 3-4 DE. There is room for another 3-4 OLB, probably 2 given Smith's health history.

My draft philosophy is that pressure is worth 3x more than coverage. CB is a luxury pick.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by CharVike »

I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by fiestavike »

CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:44 am I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
I don't think we can say that position doesn't matter. To use the obvious example, a QB is worth about 18 times more than any other player on the field. A RB is worth half as much as a G.

On offense, I might break it down this way. Of 100 possible points, the importance of each position is as follows

QB: 90
LT: 4
G: 1
C: 2
RB: 0.5
WR: 2.5

On defense, it would look something like this

Pass Rush: 70
Run Defense: 15
Coverage: 15
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by CharVike »

fiestavike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:46 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:44 am I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
I don't think we can say that position doesn't matter. To use the obvious example, a QB is worth about 18 times more than any other player on the field. A RB is worth half as much as a G.

On offense, I might break it down this way. Of 100 possible points, the importance of each position is as follows

QB: 90
LT: 4
G: 1
C: 2
RB: 0.5
WR: 2.5

On defense, it would look something like this

Pass Rush: 70
Run Defense: 15
Coverage: 15
I agree with those position rankings you posted. What I meant by position don't matter was we can select a guy for any spot and justify it. We need help everywhere. Of course don't pick any of these QBs because none have a 1st round talent grade. The individual talent also plays a part.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by fiestavike »

CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:30 am
fiestavike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:46 am

I don't think we can say that position doesn't matter. To use the obvious example, a QB is worth about 18 times more than any other player on the field. A RB is worth half as much as a G.

On offense, I might break it down this way. Of 100 possible points, the importance of each position is as follows

QB: 90
LT: 4
G: 1
C: 2
RB: 0.5
WR: 2.5

On defense, it would look something like this

Pass Rush: 70
Run Defense: 15
Coverage: 15
I agree with those position rankings you posted. What I meant by position don't matter was we can select a guy for any spot and justify it. We need help everywhere. Of course don't pick any of these QBs because none have a 1st round talent grade. The individual talent also plays a part.
Yes, I understand.

There is probably a case to be made for selecting QBs at an absurd rate, but so far no GM has gone that route, and probably wouldn't last long if he did.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:54 pm Wanted to keep bringing in some more good draft discussion.

I’ve been pondering this question in my mind the last month or so. I know many of us including myself have kind of honed in on taking a corner however I’m trying to look at this from the other side as well.

Yes our corners are not very deep or a strong suit by any means. However the more I think about this front seven, we have 6 solid to elite starters but we are still missing one guy to complete this front 7.

Now depending on how Donatell wants to construct this 3-4 front 7, I’m seeing 2 options.

Option 1:

3 down lineman of: Tomlinson, Phillips and BLANK

2 EDGE of: Hunter and Smith

2 MLBs of: Kendricks and Hicks


OR

Option 2:

3 down lineman of: Tomlinson, Phillips and Hunter

2 EDGE of: Smith and BLANK

2 MLBs of: Kendricks and Hicks

….so as you guys can see here, we are still kind of missing one guy. I think the set positions are Kendricks and Hicks in the middle and down lineman of Phillips and Tomlinson. EDGE of Zadarius Smith. The question mark is how/where they plan on utilizing Hunter. He’s our chess piece here because we know he’s very good with his hand in the dirt also.

So when it comes to the draft, if we have someone like Jordan Davis sitting there at 12 (he would fit into option 1), do we take him?

Or for option 2, maybe trade down and select someone like LB- Devin Lloyd (a favorite of mine). Someone that’s more of a coverage/rangy outside LB.

I’m interested to hear your guys’ takes here. The sounds of having 3 down lineman of Tomlinson, Phillips and Jordan Davis is very enticing. The sounds of having a Devin Lloyd on the outside is enticing as well.

What do you guys think?
From what I hear Davis is a quite good interior DL prospect, but 12 is most likely early for him. I know almost nothing about the LB prospects, but pretty sure nobody available at 12 will be worthy so it would be a trade down situation.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:37 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:54 pm Wanted to keep bringing in some more good draft discussion.

I’ve been pondering this question in my mind the last month or so. I know many of us including myself have kind of honed in on taking a corner however I’m trying to look at this from the other side as well.

Yes our corners are not very deep or a strong suit by any means. However the more I think about this front seven, we have 6 solid to elite starters but we are still missing one guy to complete this front 7.

Now depending on how Donatell wants to construct this 3-4 front 7, I’m seeing 2 options.

Option 1:

3 down lineman of: Tomlinson, Phillips and BLANK

2 EDGE of: Hunter and Smith

2 MLBs of: Kendricks and Hicks


OR

Option 2:

3 down lineman of: Tomlinson, Phillips and Hunter

2 EDGE of: Smith and BLANK

2 MLBs of: Kendricks and Hicks

….so as you guys can see here, we are still kind of missing one guy. I think the set positions are Kendricks and Hicks in the middle and down lineman of Phillips and Tomlinson. EDGE of Zadarius Smith. The question mark is how/where they plan on utilizing Hunter. He’s our chess piece here because we know he’s very good with his hand in the dirt also.

So when it comes to the draft, if we have someone like Jordan Davis sitting there at 12 (he would fit into option 1), do we take him?

Or for option 2, maybe trade down and select someone like LB- Devin Lloyd (a favorite of mine). Someone that’s more of a coverage/rangy outside LB.

I’m interested to hear your guys’ takes here. The sounds of having 3 down lineman of Tomlinson, Phillips and Jordan Davis is very enticing. The sounds of having a Devin Lloyd on the outside is enticing as well.

What do you guys think?
From what I hear Davis is a quite good interior DL prospect, but 12 is most likely early for him. I know almost nothing about the LB prospects, but pretty sure nobody available at 12 will be worthy so it would be a trade down situation.
Davis is more that good. He was pretty dominant in college and is an absolutely massive human. I've seen him go anywhere from 9-16 in most mocks.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:44 am I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
At 12th overall especially you draft BPA. Don't draft the next Trae Waynes who was just okay for a couple of years because that is your biggest need, go out and get an impact player if he is there.

I will be really disappointed if we select any CB not named Gardner at 12.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by allday1991 »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:26 pm
CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:44 am I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
At 12th overall especially you draft BPA. Don't draft the next Trae Waynes who was just okay for a couple of years because that is your biggest need, go out and get an impact player if he is there.

I will be really disappointed if we select any CB not named Gardner at 12.
I’d take Gardner or Even Stingley if he’s left by 12. The chances of Gardner are near none and I’d say a 20% chance of stingley falling to us. Real question is would we be ok with moving up to grab Gardner at 7 or 8 if he’s still around? I’d be ok with it.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by IIsweet »

If at 12... Gimme DT ajordan Davis all day long !!!
If trade back... Gimme Devante Wyatt.
Very good LB available in rds 2-4
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by StanM »

fiestavike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:46 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:44 am I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
I don't think we can say that position doesn't matter. To use the obvious example, a QB is worth about 18 times more than any other player on the field. A RB is worth half as much as a G.

On offense, I might break it down this way. Of 100 possible points, the importance of each position is as follows

QB: 90
LT: 4
G: 1
C: 2
RB: 0.5
WR: 2.5

On defense, it would look something like this

Pass Rush: 70
Run Defense: 15
Coverage: 15
Some discussions of the draft are leaning towards a wide receiver at 12. I don’t dive into studying draft prospects but we have several positions of need. This new staff has not drafted yet so we don’t know what to expect. I think BPA balanced with position needs will be the best way to go. We can go into the draft convinced that we have the answers but how it progresses is contingent on the first 11 picks. How the draft unfolds as well as trade offers will unfold next week.

When all is said and done my only wish is that we do better at avoiding busts and hit on a higher percentage of talent. If the pieces never end up fitting as we have seen it can set an entire position group back for years. Basically I’m hoping for more competence in our selections and better luck on finding young talent.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:44 am I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
Totally agree here. At 12, we should get the BPA.

A lot of so-called experts ragged on the Dallas Cowboys for taking Micah Parsons last year at 12. Shouldn’t take a linebacker that high, they said. Not a premium position, they said. But Dallas went BPA, and it paid off. All he did was rack up 13 sacks, make 1st team All Pro, and win unanimous DROY. He also stepped in at edge when Demarcus Lawrence broke his foot, and absolutely went off. He’s a player.

That doesn’t mean it’s easy. People are divided on who the top 5 in this draft are, let alone who’s BPA at 12 might be. But the Vikings should do their homework, identify who they believe it is, and draft him. If they believe BPA is a corner, then fine. But if it’s not, they should resist the urge to reach for need. Somebody else mentioned Trae Waynes. Classic example of reaching for a position. Please Vikings, don’t do that again.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by CharVike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:41 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:44 am I think they should pick the best player available. Position don't even matter. We need help at every level. A player that I like and I also think our new GM will like is WR Chris Olave. We have nothing like him on our team. Plus the guy graduated which is why I feel our GM will like him. He can do everything and is very smooth. He has great speed which we need badly. He's a day one player. Excellent work ethic. He can take a hitch to the house. I look at these CBs and I don't really see a guy that can play that well. McDuffie makes no plays on the ball. I hate that and should never be considered in round 1.
Totally agree here. At 12, we should get the BPA.

A lot of so-called experts ragged on the Dallas Cowboys for taking Micah Parsons last year at 12. Shouldn’t take a linebacker that high, they said. Not a premium position, they said. But Dallas went BPA, and it paid off. All he did was rack up 13 sacks, make 1st team All Pro, and win unanimous DROY. He also stepped in at edge when Demarcus Lawrence broke his foot, and absolutely went off. He’s a player.

That doesn’t mean it’s easy. People are divided on who the top 5 in this draft are, let alone who’s BPA at 12 might be. But the Vikings should do their homework, identify who they believe it is, and draft him. If they believe BPA is a corner, then fine. But if it’s not, they should resist the urge to reach for need. Somebody else mentioned Trae Waynes. Classic example of reaching for a position. Please Vikings, don’t do that again.
There will be a player at 12. Hamilton could be there. That WR Olave from Ohio St will be there. Those are the two I like. There where some on this board that really liked Parson's and he was a great pick. I never expected him to be as good as he is. Matter of fact I posted that I wouldn't pick him at our original spot. He's an off the charts player. That is basically a once in a decade pick. If Dallas traded into the 20s they weren't getting him. I don't care what position we pick just get the best guy for the position you choose. No reaching and no trading down for the next Bradbury type and some worthless late picks. Get a guy that can play at a high level.
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Re: Are we overlooking drafting DL or LB in round 1?

Post by IIsweet »

I would be happy with the following at 12:
DL Jordan Davis
WR Jameson Williams
WR Garrett Wilson
S Kyle Hamilton
CB Derek Stingley

Those are my faves.
I am expecting Hutchinson, Walker, Thibodeaux, Neal, Ekwanu, Cross, Gardner, Willis, to go before the above. It wouldn't surprise me that the next 5 are the ones above. If staying put... I hope to take one of them !