Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts

[dead_poet]

I've been going over this in my head more than I probably should have but here's what I believe in retrospect after sleeping on it and without the benefit of the All-22 view. These are in no particular order.

1. Play call fail: On one hand I understand the desire to pick up more yards to help Blair out. I get it. Most teams (with good quarterbacks) would've run a play there and not kicked it on third down. There was technically time for a longer-developing play HOWEVER Norv/Zimmer have to understand by now the limitations of the offensive line and a deep drop in that situation was certainly not ideal. The crossing route combination takes way too long to develop. The reason why Teddy doesn't throw it sooner is because the routes take that long to develop. If Teddy throws it before the receivers' break their routes (and too soon before they get within a couple of yards to the sideline) they're tackled in bounds and the game is over. This was not a good play call in this situation.

2. Everyone was covered until the last possible moment. There was one receiver that broke open to the only spot Teddy could throw it for a positive outcome. The exact moment Teddy tried to do that he was hit.

3. Matt Kalil got beat and got beat badly. If Kalil had simply performed at competent level there the result would've likely have been barely complete right at the sidelines or (most likely) incomplete too far out of bounds but only with the WR able to possibly make a play.

4. If we're splitting hairs, Teddy may have been .25 seconds slow to attempt the pass. But as referenced above, he needed to let those routes develop and get to the sideline. But the fact remains that he may have been .25 seconds slow. That's getting awfully critical but there it is.

Edit: here's the best look at that play (sorry for not embedding): https://twitter.com/JustinScaife/status ... 1832826880

[DK Sweets]

Thanks for that view, DP. I find it really hard to blame that play on Teddy after re-re-re-watching it.

[IrishViking]

I think its a damned if you do, damned if you don't.


We kick on third and Walsh shanks it or something every football fan in the world would be screaming that we had time for one more play to get closer.

[J. Kapp 11]

I screamed it at the TV last night and posted it during the in-game discussion ... I'll say it again.

The final play never should have occurred. It had little chance of doing anything positive. KICK THE FIELD GOAL ON THIRD DOWN, and we're not having this conversation right now.

Running a play there was all risk and no reward.
1. If the receiver doesn't get out of bounds, there is no chance of getting the field goal team in position.
2. There is also an extremely small window for getting in formation and spiking the ball.
3. If the receiver catches the ball in play, but short of the first down, we're screwed because now it's 4th down and you can't spike it.
4. What did the Vikings hope to accomplish? There was virtually zero chance of the play resulting in a touchdown, so what do you gain? 10 extra yards? Walsh has missed three extra points, for crying out loud, so getting him closer gains you little. It was well within Walsh's range. Kick it and get to overtime.

Look, I absolutely LOVE Mike Zimmer. There's a significant part of me that believes when it's all said and done, he will be talked about as one of the greats.

But he botched it last night.

[Texas Vike]

I screamed it at the TV last night and posted it during the in-game discussion ... I'll say it again.

The final play never should have occurred. It had little chance of doing anything positive. KICK THE FIELD GOAL ON THIRD DOWN, and we're not having this conversation right now.

Running a play there was all risk and no reward.
1. If the receiver doesn't get out of bounds, there is no chance of getting the field goal team in position.
2. There is also an extremely small window for getting in formation and spiking the ball.
3. If the receiver catches the ball in play, but short of the first down, we're screwed because now it's 4th down and you can't spike it.
4. What did the Vikings hope to accomplish? There was virtually zero chance of the play resulting in a touchdown, so what do you gain? 10 extra yards? Walsh has missed three extra points, for crying out loud, so getting him closer gains you little. It was well within Walsh's range. Kick it and get to overtime.

Look, I absolutely LOVE Mike Zimmer. There's a significant part of me that believes when it's all said and done, he will be talked about as one of the greats.

But he botched it last night.

I agree with all of this. Hopefully he learns a lesson from that situation.

[losperros]

I've been going over this in my head more than I probably should have but here's what I believe in retrospect after sleeping on it and without the benefit of the All-22 view. These are in no particular order.

1. Play call fail: On one hand I understand the desire to pick up more yards to help Blair out. I get it. Most teams (with good quarterbacks) would've run a play there and not kicked it on third down. There was technically time for a longer-developing play HOWEVER Norv/Zimmer have to understand by now the limitations of the offensive line and a deep drop in that situation was certainly not ideal. The crossing route combination takes way too long to develop. The reason why Teddy doesn't throw it sooner is because the routes take that long to develop. If Teddy throws it before the receivers' break their routes (and too soon before they get within a couple of yards to the sideline) they're tackled in bounds and the game is over. This was not a good play call in this situation.

Very much agree.

On that note, I think the Vikings have repeatedly shot themselves in the team foot with long developing pass plays throughout the season. The OL cannot sustain blocks for those plays to develop. As a result, I think it makes Bridgewater look worse than he probably is. That doesn't negate the fact that Teddy has too often been inaccurate with throws beyond 10 yards from scrimmage, but it does explain why he sometimes is scrambling for his life while he's holding onto the ball. It blows me away that Norv/Zimmer haven't figured this out by now.

[TSonn]

Edit: here's the best look at that play (sorry for not embedding): https://twitter.com/JustinScaife/status ... 1832826880

Good find, DP. That's the replay I saw last night that convinced me it's on the coaches, not on Teddy. He had to wait way too long for his main option along the sidelines to get open and far enough to not be tackled in bounds. 13 seconds left, no timeouts, and a sub-par offensive line? Yeah, let's do a 7 step drop.

Gah, the more I watch of that play the worse it is. When Teddy gets to the top of his drop back (7 steps), the WRs are not even close to the sideline to make a throw.

[Mothman]

Bad play call: check.
Receivers covered: check.
Kalil got beat: check.

You're the QB. Your team is in position to force overtime with 13 seconds left by kicking a field goal. Your coaches want to run one more play to try to get closer for the field goal attempt. What is your primary responsibility on the play?

1.) Complete the pass.
2.) Take care of the football to ensure the FG opportunity.

The answer is clearly #2. The moment the play reached the point DP mentioned above, where everyone was covered, is the moment Bridgewater should have thrown the ball away. That's not splitting hairs, it's Football 101. It's basic. In that situation, a QB needs to take a quick look and if the play's not there, throw the ball away and let the FG unit come onto the field.

As you said, Norv and Zimmer need to understand the limitations of the offensive line. Bridgewater does too. Since he's the one who takes the hits when they break down on a passing play, he should understand them as well as anybody. Even if his coaches let him down with a bad play call, a sack or turnover in that situation ends the game and he was the person most responsible for making sure that didn't happen. He had the ball so he was the only one in control of the situation and he needed to throw it away. Don't step up and double clutch, just get rid of it.

[Mothman]

Good find, DP. That's the replay I saw last night that convinced me it's on the coaches, not on Teddy. He had to wait way too long for his main option along the sidelines to get open and far enough to not be tackled in bounds. 13 seconds left, no timeouts, and a sub-par offensive line? Yeah, let's do a 7 step drop.

So why was he waiting?!

Gah, the more I watch of that play the worse it is. When Teddy gets to the top of his drop back (7 steps), the WRs are not even close to the sideline to make a throw.

So what's the smart play in that situation?

I promised myself this morning I wouldn't get into a big debate over this but the excuse-making drives me crazy. Everybody is looking for a way to absolve Bridgewater of an obviously critical, fundamental mistake. Why? Is it somehow more comforting to blame it on Turner or Zimmer or Kalil? None of them had the ball in their hands with the game on the line.

[J. Kapp 11]

Bad play call: check.
Receivers covered: check.
Kalil got beat: check.

You're the QB. Your team is in position to force overtime with 13 seconds left by kicking a field goal. Your coaches want to run one more play to try to get closer for the field goal attempt. What is your primary responsibility on the play?

1.) Complete the pass.
2.) Take care of the football to ensure the FG opportunity.

The answer is clearly #2. The moment the play reached the point DP mentioned above, where everyone was covered, is the moment Bridgewater should have thrown the ball away. That's not splitting hairs, it's Football 101. It's basic. In that situation, a QB needs to take a quick look and if the play's not there, throw the ball away and let the FG unit come onto the field.

As you said, Norv and Zimmer need to understand the limitations of the offensive line. Bridgewater does too. Since he's the one who takes the hits when they break down on a passing play, he should understand them as well as anybody. Even if his coaches let him down with a bad play call, a sack or turnover in that situation ends the game and he was the person most responsible for making sure that didn't happen. He had the ball so he was the only one in control of the situation and he needed to throw it away. Don't step up and double clutch, just get rid of it.

I agree with all this, Jim.

But it's the coaching staff's responsibility to understand the risk-reward of even running that play. They failed. In doing so, they put Teddy in a position to fail, with little to gain in return.

I could see running a play if you're in the red zone. You have a chance to score a TD and win the game. But from the 30? There was little to be gained. Your team is playing great football. Kick the field goal, get to overtime, and trust the way your guys are playing.

[IrishViking]

Bad play call: check.
Receivers covered: check.
Kalil got beat: check.

You're the QB. Your team is in position to force overtime with 13 seconds left by kicking a field goal. Your coaches want to run one more play to try to get closer for the field goal attempt. What is your primary responsibility on the play?

1.) Complete the pass.
2.) Take care of the football to ensure the FG opportunity.

The answer is clearly #2. The moment the play reached the point DP mentioned above, where everyone was covered, is the moment Bridgewater should have thrown the ball away. That's not splitting hairs, it's Football 101. It's basic. In that situation, a QB needs to take a quick look and if the play's not there, throw the ball away and let the FG unit come onto the field.

As you said, Norv and Zimmer need to understand the limitations of the offensive line. Bridgewater does too. Since he's the one who takes the hits when they break down on a passing play, he should understand them as well as anybody. Even if his coaches let him down with a bad play call, a sack or turnover in that situation ends the game and he was the person most responsible for making sure that didn't happen. He had the ball so he was the only one in control of the situation and he needed to throw it away. Don't step up and double clutch, just get rid of it.

Which is exactly what he tries to do. I think its a very dangerous road for Teddy to begin assuming that his blindside defender WILL get beaten badly.

[TSonn]

This is the moment when Teddy hits the top of his dropback: http://imgur.com/Hf8Gped.

None of those WRs are going to make a catch and get to the sidelines. Their all covered tightly, too, which puts an INT in play. Plus, the pocket looks somewhat safe right now. (Kalil) is starting to get turned at this moment on Teddy's blindside, but it may have seemed like a safe pocket at that moment for Teddy to wait that extra second for the routes to get to the sideline. Teddy could have thrown it away at this moment, as well, but why even run that play when it has no chance of succeeding how it needs to in that situation?

[IrishViking]

This is the moment when Teddy hits the top of his dropback: http://imgur.com/Hf8Gped.

None of those WRs are going to make a catch and get to the sidelines. Their all covered tightly, too, which puts an INT in play. Plus, the pocket looks somewhat safe right now. (Kalil) is starting to get turned at this moment on Teddy's blindside, but it may have seemed like a safe pocket at that moment for Teddy to wait that extra second for the routes to get to the sideline. Teddy could have thrown it away at this moment, as well, but why even run that play when it has no chance of succeeding how it needs to in that situation?

we are talking about the space of half a second here. I agree that I think that's what he should have done but I don't think this is an egregious oversight on Teddy's part. There was so much wrong with those 15 seconds.

[Mothman]

This is the moment when Teddy hits the top of his dropback: http://imgur.com/Hf8Gped.

None of those WRs are going to make a catch and get to the sidelines. Their all covered tightly, too, which puts an INT in play. Plus, the pocket looks somewhat safe right now. (Kalil) is starting to get turned at this moment on Teddy's blindside, but it may have seemed like a safe pocket at that moment for Teddy to wait that extra second for the routes to get to the sideline. Teddy could have thrown it away at this moment, as well, but why even run that play when it has no chance of succeeding how it needs to in that situation?

I don't know but once it was called, it was going to be run. At that point, the coaches had made their blunder. TB needed to preserve the opportunity to kick the field goal.

[The Breeze]

I think it's reasonable to suggest that just about everyone failed on that last play.

Sometimes you get lucky....like when a lineman has a batted ball glance off a helmet into his gut and advances it 10 yds. And some times you get unlucky ...like when you get hit as you're about to pass just before your arm moves forward.

Mistakes were made...it was an unfortunate outcome. The point is, do they learn and grow?
These past coupla games were exactly what TB was needing IMO. Situations where he can clearly see on film just how much he needs to get over the hump against upper tier teams.
He looked terrified and tentative against Seattle, but he bounced back and played very well last night. He still has stuff to figure out and his crap line hurts his chances sometimes but I'm hoping this one hangs in his mind for awhile.

They got 3 winnable games left and there was enough progress from the offense last night to suggest to me they can win them all.
It's better to have these kinds of blunders before the post season so maybe, if the situations repeat during a playoff game, they have a chance to correct the mistake.

I think it's called experience.