Is the NFL Real Sport or Simply Entertainment?

[Cliff]

This question has been weighing on my mind a bit after a recent post on this site. For that post I did a small amount of research and found that the NFL has pretty strong ties to gambling/crime families. At the time, I said something along the lines of “Then again, maybe it’s easier to look for the ‘bad’ side of the NFL since the team that I support is doing so badly”.

However, since then the idea has come back to me and won’t quite leave my brain. Is the NFL a real “sport” held to the same kind of standards one would expect of, say, the Olympics or is the NFL just partially sport in the same way that “professional wrestling” is partially a sport.

I get that the athletes are actually training. I get that the players in many cases are giving it their all … but is that enough? If the outcomes can be controlled by the refs and coaches, does it matter how much effort the players are giving?

In my research I recently read this article;

From this site; http://spaces.covers.com/blog/MaximumWi ... rofit.html

“In 2007 a Jets season ticket holder sued the NFL for $185 million and the case reached the US Supreme Court. The court documents are available online at http://thefixisin.net/resources/precend ... pinion.pdf. The Jets fan argued that, all Jets fans are entitled to refunds because they paid for a ticket to a legitimate sporting event. Had he been aware that the games were not real then we would not have gone.

The NFL's attorneys argued that the fan simply "purchased a ticket which gives him a contractual right to a seat in a stadium to watch an NFL game between the Patriots and Jets, and this right was honored." More, Senior Judge Robert E. Cowen agreed stating that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium and nothing more. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed an NFL game, therefore he did not suffer any damages to legally protected right or interest. The fan's lawyer, Bruce Afran disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud saying "This seems to suggest that no matter how much ticker holders pay, they can be frauded by NFL teams which puts the NFL on the same level as professional wrestling".

Afran is correct in his judgment based on the interpretation of game fixing laws. A team can't fix their own games for gambling purposes, nor can they fix an intellectual contest (a ruling based n the Quiz Show scandal of the 1950s) But judges ruled that fixing a game for entertainment purposes was completely LEGAL NFL Attorney Shephard Goldfein actually argued in court supporting this argument saying "fans would likely still buy tickets even if they knew teams were stealing signals" In other word, the NFL knows you will still pay to see football even if you knew it was fake because you love football.

Much like pro wrestling. The Supreme Court threw the case out in favor of the NFL which ultimately makes it legal to fix your own games for entertainment purposes.”

First of all I do realize this is just a person’s opinion and though he’s using some facts in his argument, I don’t take it as bulletproof evidence or anything. After reading over court documents I’m not sure I draw exactly the same conclusions as the author above either, but it’s pretty interesting stuff and doesn’t help the NFL’s case.

I also found this poll over at Debate.org;
http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-the-nfl-rigged

In which 88% of people that voted think that the NFL is “rigged”. Again, this doesn’t prove anything but it shows that a pretty good percentage of people are thinking along the same lines.

After all that, I figured I’d start a poll here and see what other Vikings fans thought. The poll aside though … would you guys still watch if you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that games in the NFL were rigged?

[Cliff]

so its good to keep questioning things, but don't expect any Quiz Show type revelations to come, since that would kill the golden goose.

I don't expect any bigger revelations either ... but I'm not sure about it killing the golden goose. It didn't kill professional wrestling and it's pretty much a known fact that it's fake.

[BGM]

Honestly, if it were revealed that it were rigged, I would be gone. When, I was a kid, I watched pro wrestling even after I knew it was fake. After time, it bored me. It would be the same with the NFL. I would hold onto the good memories, but it would not interest me anymore.

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[Cliff]

Honestly, if it were revealed that it were rigged, I would be gone. When, I was a kid, I watched pro wrestling even after I knew it was fake. After time, it bored me. It would be the same with the NFL. I would hold onto the good memories, but it would not interest me anymore.

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I’m coming from a similar situation. When I was a kid my grandfather and I used to watch professional wrestling but knowing that it’s completely fabricated definitely killed some of it for me. Though what little I’ve seen of it recently makes me think I probably would have moved away from it either way, it’s not really suited for “mature audiences” in my opinion.

[Mothman]

Proving or believing that there is any sort of influence in the outcome of a NFL game is going to be pretty difficult and hard to believe. Then again that goes for all major league sports and the NBA refs who were in on it were completely outed and the main ref even wrote a book.

But the reality is this, a handful of referee calls can decide a winner of a game. Whether one believes these are mistakes or something more is up to the individual. And while one person can see randomness, others can connect the dots and notice that referee calls tend to favor certain teams or players. But again, not easy to prove.

and then you have the NFL, with truly one of the worst playoff systems in sports history for determining who the actual best team is. You also have a sport with so many restrictions on instant replay, which therefore can never produce the "right call" every single time (despite other sports ability to, like college football).

With enough doubt present, and without officiating or a playoff system in place to truly determine the best team for a year, it gives fans enough to question everyone else and believe in their own team, and that system, no matter how weak, has not turned enough people off, and very likely has increased the fan base, as every team feels they have a shot.

So if influencing officiating, and utilizing a playoff system that doesn't determine squat, and at the same time looking into watering it down even more, is what the NFL chooses do, how can one argue strongly against it, when the NFL is more popular than any other sport in American history?

so its good to keep questioning things, but don't expect any Quiz Show type revelations to come, since that would kill the golden goose.

You're probably right that we shouldn't expect any "Quiz Show" revelations and I don't want to steer the thread way off topic but I do think you've raised an interesting point about the purpose of the playoffs. Is that purpose really to determine the best team in the league? There's certainly an argument to be made for that view but I don't view the playoff systems in any of the major sports, particularly the NFL, as a way of determining the best team. I see them as a way to determine the champion of an annual tournament. That's particularly true in the single game elimination format the NFL uses and I think for football, that format is the best choice. I find it more exciting than the series-oriented playoffs in other sports and I don't think that series format would be practical for the NFL. The game is too physically demanding.

Anyway, if Cliff prefers, I can make this the topic of another thread but I'm curious to hear what others think about this subject. Is the purpose of the playoffs and the Super Bowl to determine the best team in the league or is it to determine the winner of that season's tournament? I believe it's the latter and I see that as a positive thing.

[Mothman]

After all that, I figured I’d start a poll here and see what other Vikings fans thought. The poll aside though … would you guys still watch if you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that games in the NFL were rigged?

Interesting subject, Cliff. I chose the second option in the poll because even though I don't think NFL games are rigged, the opportunity for refs/players/teams to cheat and attempt to alter the outcome of games clearly exists.

Admittedly, I haven't done a great deal of research into the topic but I believe NFL football is a real sport, held to the same standards as anything else that would fit that description, and not a rigged or partially scripted sport in which the league creates a storyline or in which there are predetermined outcomes. I understand how and why people reach other conclusions but I've never seen enough evidence in support of one to lead me to believe those views are anything more than the perceptions and interpretations of individuals. There are certainly times when it looks like like an officating crew is biased or is trying to determine the outcome of a game but I have great faith in the imperfect, sometimes incompetent, nature of human beings. In other words, I think those cases are most likely just examples of officials screwing up.

If I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that NFL games were rigged by the league, I don't think I'd keep watching.

[Cliff]

Anyway, if Cliff prefers, I can make this the topic of another thread but I'm curious to hear what others think about this subject. Is the purpose of the playoffs and the Super Bowl to determine the best team in the league or is it to determine the winner of that season's tournament? I believe it's the latter and I see that as a positive thing.

I don't care if you create another post about it or not but if you're wanting a more focused response to the question it might be a good idea.

I think it’s an interesting question because generally speaking the super bowl champion seems to be synonymous with “best” in the mind of many fans and analysts. I’m kind of torn on the issue myself. In one respect the body of work for a given team for the entire season should probably hold some weight. Yet at the same time if that other team was the best why didn’t they win when it mattered the most? Every team is building up for a playoff run and part of being “the best” is having a team that is good enough to overcome a season’s worth of injuries and do well in the playoffs.

I agree single-elimination is probably the best format for football. Each team playing 2-3 games before moving on could potentially turn the playoffs into as many games as half of an entire season.

[Mothman]

I don't care if you create another post about it or not but if you're wanting a more focused response to the question it might be a good idea.

Good point. I'll play it by ear... I'm not sure it's a question that will get much response.

I think it’s an interesting question because generally speaking the super bowl champion seems to be synonymous with “best” in the mind of many fans and analysts. I’m kind of torn on the issue myself. In one respect the body of work for a given team for the entire season should probably hold some weight.

It holds some weight in terms of playoff seeding.

Yet at the same time if that other team was the best why didn’t they win when it mattered the most? Every team is building up for a playoff run and part of being “the best” is having a team that is good enough to overcome a season’s worth of injuries and do well in the playoffs.

Exactly. If a team is the best, they get a chance to prove it.

I agree single-elimination is probably the best format for football. Each team playing 2-3 games before moving on could potentially turn the playoffs into as many games as half of an entire season.

... and that would make it even more of a war of attrition, not mention greatly expanding the season and probably pushing the Super Bowl into baseball season!

[joe h]

I have no doubt officials are gambling on outcomes, I think the college level is also becoming crooked, maybe a little worse than the nfl. Would not be shocked to hear of colleges getting paid directly to take a dive(ohio state). I also didn't like what seemed to be way too many last second game winning drives and miracle comebacks, compared to previous years. Starting to lose interest I guess, the whole thing has a nba feel to it, where only the last 5 minutes matters.

[beardedterror]

As I'm watching the Patriots/Colts game, I've got to believe that this goes higher than the players/refs. The same ref who we saw smile about a vikings penalty versus the ravens is officiating this game. Any contact is drawing a PI penalty against the colts, while I've literally seen a targeted colts receiver get tackled with the ball in the air and get no flag. We'll see how this ends, but we all know how the NFL sees the Patriots as an organization.

[beardedterror]

And the instant after I post this, Luck gets tripped intentionally with no penalty. It's sickening.

[PotGoblin]

yea I been noticing that to as well tonight.

[Lash Man]

To add to this topic I would add the pass interference call against the Chargers that was actually a blatant push off from Welker and the ball was way overthrown . The Broncos went on to score a TD that proved to be the difference in the game . I have suspected for a long time that the refs influence games with timely holding and pass interference calls . For some reason the league seems to like some teams over others , we as fans are picking up on that as its becoming more blatant every year . The call on that play I referred to was so late it was beyond ridiculous . I still watch the NFL as its my favorite sport but there is some sadness when I see calls like this happen .

[Reignman]

I get suspicious sometimes, but I really don't think there are any meetings or emails or anything like that going on, but I do believe there's an "understanding" for lack of a better term. I think the refs know which teams mean more $$$ for the league and in turn maybe they get "rewarded" for certain calls in close games that help those more profitable teams win. Like Pete Morelli who gets awarded a divisional playoff game for helping the right teams win a close game. It's an extra pay check for him. But the only way someone could really affect the outcome of a game, is if the score is close. Like in OT of a championship game.

But no I don't believe there's anything official happening behind the scenes because if there were, that information would come out eventually. Eventually some disgruntled individual on the inside would talk. And that's the problem with the big conspiracies. The more people that would have to be involved to make it work, the less likely it can be true.

[Funkytown]

ESPN - According to AP-GfK poll, 49 percent of Americans are pro football fans; down from 56 percent last year