My solution to "fix" Ponder?

[Mothman]

I say bench him. To me there is some sort of a mental block going on. I don't know if its distractions, the pressure of his team playing above expectations, the attention from being a winner, I don't know. But he needs to be snapped back into it somehow. I think if we try to simplify this offense any more for him we'll be even more vulnerable to defenses.

So, I say if he still plays crappy for the first half of the Lions game, then we finish the game with Joe Webb. Win or lose, we don't announce a starter until the last minute and then we give Ponder the start again. (that is unless Webb has some sort of miraculous breakthrough). But we ignore the media blitz from that move, and let Ponder take all the heat that comes with it. this gives Ponder 2 weeks to sweat it out, talk to his family, visit Tibet...

Well played. That "Tibet" comment made me laugh out loud.

But my real reason I want Ponder to succeed is because I'm the idiot who actually bought a Ponder jersey last month

LOL!

Jim

[mosscarter]

ponder jersey=bad investment.

[Eli]

Sock party.

[PurpleMustReign]

Do we really need another Ponder thread?

[king72404]

I think he deserves one more week, maybe even one more half to prove himself...he showed some signs early last year and early this year but right now I don't see any good throws like I did last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfhY

Somebody needs to show Ponder these highlights and maybe he'll remember that if you trust your guys to make plays in single coverage sometimes they will.

[VikingLord]

So Ponder gets his second mid-season benching in as many seasons? Nice.

I wonder how many star QB's had to be repeatedly benched early in their careers? I see a lot of the stats showing how Ponder compares favorably to the early games of some of the better QB's, but I'm pretty sure those QB's weren't repeatedly benched to get them over the hump.

If Ponder is going to get "fixed" it will be by his own hand on the field of play, not by sitting down and watching. Ponder needs playing time and pressure if he's going to show he can improve. Neither he, nor the Vikings for that matter, can find out if Ponder is capable of overcoming his current slump by sitting him down.

On the flip side, if they stick with him the season is likely going down in flames and, to add insult to injury, they're going to have to find a QB during the offseason.

[Mothman]

So Ponder gets his second mid-season benching in as many seasons? Nice.

I wonder how many star QB's had to be repeatedly benched early in their careers? I see a lot of the stats showing how Ponder compares favorably to the early games of some of the better QB's, but I'm pretty sure those QB's weren't repeatedly benched to get them over the hump.

Ponder hasn't been either and if he is, it's probably a good indication that he'll never become one of those star QBs.

If Ponder is going to get "fixed" it will be by his own hand on the field of play, not by sitting down and watching. Ponder needs playing time and pressure if he's going to show he can improve. Neither he, nor the Vikings for that matter, can find out if Ponder is capable of overcoming his current slump by sitting him down.

I just read the following comments from you in another thread:

And now, for our viewing pleasure, we're going to get a visual demonstration of exactly why I didn't like the selection of Frazier as head coach. Frazier is going to stick with Ponder to the end. Frazier's team isn't out of it yet. They're down, but they can still pull it together. But Frazier isn't going to go for that. He's going to stick with Ponder to the bitter end. If you like train wrecks, this has the making of a good one.

I'm not trying to nitpick by cross-posting them here, I'm just trying to understand how you reconcile what is clearly a critical view of a choice you assume Frazier will make (to stick with Ponder for the rest of the season) and your comments above, which strongly imply that's exactly what he should do. If the Vikings can't find out if Ponder is capable of overcoming his lump by sitting him down, are you saying they should just bail on him for good now and make Webb the starter because that has a chance to save the season?

Again, I'm not trying to nit-pick, just trying to get a feel for what you think Frazier is supposed to do in this situation: continue developing the QB they've committed to or try to "pull it together" with Webb...

[Raptorman]

I say bench him. To me there is some sort of a mental block going on. I don't know if its distractions, the pressure of his team playing above expectations, the attention from being a winner, I don't know. But he needs to be snapped back into it somehow. I think if we try to simplify this offense any more for him we'll be even more vulnerable to defenses.

So, I say if he still plays crappy for the first half of the Lions game, then we finish the game with Joe Webb. Win or lose, we don't announce a starter until the last minute and then we give Ponder the start again. (that is unless Webb has some sort of miraculous breakthrough). But we ignore the media blitz from that move, and let Ponder take all the heat that comes with it. this gives Ponder 2 weeks to sweat it out, talk to his family, visit Tibet, whatever he has to do to search deep into his soul and be confronted with the reality of never playing in the NFL again. I've since calmed down since Sunday, and realize he has it in him. He's played some great games, and made some spectacular passes that he doesn't seem capable of anymore. It's in him, something just needs to bring it back.

Because he's shown such fear and mental weakness so far, this either snaps him back and he plays to his potential, or he completely caves, crumbles, and reveals he truly is not cut out for this, and then we can move on and find a new QB in the offseason. I'm sorry, but I just don't see "waiting it out" as an option. I think we've been "waiting it out" for a few weeks so far anyway. Any other ideas?

But my real reason I want Ponder to succeed is because I'm the idiot who actually bought a Ponder jersey last month

I think I have a Spergon Wynn jersey somewhere if you want to add to your collection.

[Mercy Percy]

I think he deserves one more week, maybe even one more half to prove himself...he showed some signs early last year and early this year but right now I don't see any good throws like I did last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfhY

Somebody needs to show Ponder these highlights and maybe he'll remember that if you trust your guys to make plays in single coverage sometimes they will.

He really does make great throws. I feel like he is pressing sooooo hard right now and if he would just relax and know he has the ability to gun those throws in something would change. I think something is wrong upstairs with him right now.

[king72404]

He really does make great throws. I feel like he is pressing sooooo hard right now and if he would just relax and know he has the ability to gun those throws in something would change. I think something is wrong upstairs with him right now.

It is definitely something mental...Some of the throws he made last year were "WOW" plays, especially the ones to Shiancoe and Rudolph. When I'm watching him this year I'm saying wow for totally different reasons lol.

[FailedtoOpen]

It is definitely something mental...Some of the throws he made last year were "WOW" plays, especially the ones to Shiancoe and Rudolph. When I'm watching him this year I'm saying wow for totally different reasons lol.

He has still make some really nice throws this year... they just dont stick out as much due to recent events.

[Mothman]

He has still make some really nice throws this year... they just dont stick out as much due to recent events.

Exactly. Heck, he made a couple of really nice throws in the Seattle game. They were just too few and far between.

His mechanics look like they've slipped a bit and that might be affecting his accuracy. I don't know if it's the knee, too much worrying about the pass rush or just a slip into bad habits but it's noticeable. For example, on the long throw to Harvin that came up short but ended in pass interference, Ponder didn't step all the way into the throw and follow through. The rush was coming at him so maybe that was why he didn't do it but it looked like he could have done it and if he had, maybe there would have been a little more on that pass.

[VikingLord]

I just read the following comments from you in another thread:
I'm not trying to nitpick by cross-posting them here, I'm just trying to understand how you reconcile what is clearly a critical view of a choice you assume Frazier will make (to stick with Ponder for the rest of the season) and your comments above, which strongly imply that's exactly what he should do. If the Vikings can't find out if Ponder is capable of overcoming his lump by sitting him down, are you saying they should just bail on him for good now and make Webb the starter because that has a chance to save the season?

Again, I'm not trying to nit-pick, just trying to get a feel for what you think Frazier is supposed to do in this situation: continue developing the QB they've committed to or try to "pull it together" with Webb...

What I think Frazier should do is bench Ponder, start Webb, and shoot to salvage the season while he still can. I say that because I don't think Ponder has what it takes to get out of this tailspin. IMHO, Ponder owes much of his early season success to Harvin and his ability to turn short passes into big gains. Since defenses have adjusted to take that away, Ponder's numbers have plummeted and I don't see anything from him to suggest he's capable of countering that. He simply will not or cannot do anything to counter what defenses are doing now. So yes, he needs to play to pull out of it, but I don't think he can or will. As a result, there's no point to that in my view, but if it is going to happen, it can only happen if Ponder is on the field, not on the bench.

What I think Frazier will do is double-down on Ponder. I think he's ultra-conservative in every way and he'll stick with Ponder to the end no matter if we see sub-100 yard passing performances every game from here on out. Just listening to Frazier's press conference after the Seattle game confirms that. Frazier is basically absolving Ponder of all blame for what is wrong with the passing game. Everything is "correctable". Execution has to be "better". They have to take advantage of "things that are there". If Frazier were being honest (with himself if nobody else), he'd know Ponder is a dead man walking and ditch him while he still can.

[Mothman]

What I think Frazier should do is bench Ponder, start Webb, and shoot to salvage the season while he still can. I say that because I don't think Ponder has what it takes to get out of this tailspin. IMHO, Ponder owes much of his early season success to Harvin and his ability to turn short passes into big gains. Since defenses have adjusted to take that away, Ponder's numbers have plummeted and I don't see anything from him to suggest he's capable of countering that. He simply will not or cannot do anything to counter what defenses are doing now. So yes, he needs to play to pull out of it, but I don't think he can or will. As a result, there's no point to that in my view, but if it is going to happen, it can only happen if Ponder is on the field, not on the bench.

Thanks for the clarification.

Judd Zulgad recently wrote an article related to these issues:

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Zulg ... 110612?t=2

[Mothman]

Hopefully, this puts the notion that Frazier "is basically absolving Ponder of all blame for what is wrong with the passing game" to rest:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-r ... ian-ponder

Frazier said the team is looking at the receivers' route-running to find out if they are breaking them off too soon, or if those routes are the right plays to call.

“The last couple of weeks there have been some things that have come up that we need to keep working on, not only with [Ponder] but our entire offense, to get better production out of our pass game,” Frazier said. “[Ponder] knows there are some things that he needs to improve on, but there are also some things throughout our passing game that we have to get corrected in order to help him be successful.”

That kind of response might not keep the fans from booing the first time Ponder makes a bad throw against the Lions next Sunday at Mall of America Field. But even though the coach continues to protect what appears to be the fragile psyche of his young quarterback, it doesn't mean he doesn't see what's happening on the field.

“On the bubble screen, that's one he completes 10 out of 10 times, but he didn't that time,” Frazier said. “He's completed that with high accuracy throughout the season. For whatever reason, the ball sailed on him. He's got to get his feet set and got to make that throw. He's made that throw.”

Regarding what looks to be Ponder's diminishing pocket presence when under pressure, Frazier approached the point of criticism.

“There are times where he needs to stay in the pocket a little bit longer and needs to be patient,” Frazier said. “There are other times where he does exactly what we've asked him to do. But there are times where for whatever reason he'll pull it down a second too soon and we've got to work through that, give those routes a chance to uncover.”

“At our level, it's not very often that guys are going to be completely wide open on a consistent basis,” Frazier said. “So part of being a good quarterback is throwing into tight windows. He's capable of doing that. We've all seen him do it, and [we've] just got to consistently do it because if we get those opportunities on Sunday we'll have to take advantage of it.”

Whether fans like Frazier or not, he's no fool. He sees exactly what's going on with his QB and he's talking about it too.

Jim