Breaking down the tape from Vikings win over 49ers

[Demi]

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Brea ... 9ers092512

Only five of his 35 targeted pass attempts (14.3%) were thrown at least 15 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, and four of those were incomplete. He completed eight balls behind the line

Whatever works I guess.

[Just Me]

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Brea ... 9ers092512


Whatever works I guess.

What is the league average for that stat? Hypothetically, if it is - say - 10%, it kind of blows the innuendo out of the water.

I don't know, I was just curious....

[Knoxx]

The deep ball seems to allude him Demi. Simpson will play this week maybe having a more reliable deep threat will fix this. I myself am happy with his playing so far. I would like to see more passes to AD though to see if he can be a great receiving and running back like Roger Craig and Marshall Faulk. Man the Niners and Rams used to eat teams up with those little passes to the running backs.

[Hunter Morrow]

Of course Demi posted this one about Ol' Noodle Arm. What are you going to post if Ponder does this same 250 yard 3 touchdown no turnover performance next week and the Vikings beat the Lions by 11-14 points on the road?

This is one of those games where the statline doesn't even come close to telling the whole story of Ponder playing very well.

[Mothman]

What is the league average for that stat? Hypothetically, if it is - say - 10%, it kind of blows the innuendo out of the water.

I don't know, I was just curious....

I don't know either but I don't think it matters much unless it starts to have a serious impact the team's ability to win. Right now, it's little more than a curiosity since Ponder's average per attempt is 7.4 yards, which ties him with Matt Ryan for 11th in the league. To put that in perspective, Brady, Locker and Roethlisberger are all averaging 7.5 per attempt and only 5 QBs are averaging 8 ypa.

In other words, the Vikes passing game has been pretty effective.

Jim

[Purple bruise]

Breaking down the tape Every talking head on TV that I saw, have given Ponder rave reviews for his play, leadership and improvement.
Now let's break down the tape and scrutinize every thing that Ponder did wrong
Remember that he is only 6-2 and 230 lbs. with a noodle arm so it is obvious that he cannot play at this level
Pay no attention to the fact that he is ranked 5th in the entire league at 104.9 QB rating with 0 interceptions.

[Mothman]

Breaking down the tape Every talking head on TV that I saw, have given Ponder rave reviews for his play, leadership and improvement.
Now let's break down the tape and scrutinize every thing that Ponder did wrong

"Breaking Down the Tape" is the title of the article Demi was quoting. Tom Pelissero writes a piece with the same name after every Vikes game and he basically just scrutinizes everything. Demi pulled a line from the article and quoted it out of context. Here's what preceded it:

Five times, Christian Ponder (79 snaps) faked a handoff on a seven-step drop and looked for the deep ball. Five times, Ponder settled for an intermediate pass (twice), checkdown (twice) or scramble (once) on plays that netted 49 yards combined. That sums up the way Ponder kept the Vikings offense moving on a day his receivers once again struggled to create separation downfield. Only five of his 35 targeted pass attempts (14.3%) were thrown at least 15 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, and four of those were incomplete.

There was more after that too.

[Purple bruise]

"Breaking Down the Tape" is the title of the article Demi was quoting. Tom Pelissero writes a piece with the same name after every Vikes game and he basically just scrutinizes everything. Demi pulled a line from the article and quoted it out of context. Here's what preceded it:
There was more after that too.

Thanks Jim, I realized that It just, to me anyway, seems while most of the fans are savoring this win and I have not read or heard of too many people proposing that this team IS now a play-off caliber team, I find it odd that with all of the other topics talking about the game, that there needs to be another topic directed at Ponder's inability to throw down field. Although Ponder made some amazing plays he did not have enough time (usually) to look down field for that type of throw and I do not remember that any of his "average" wide outs were getting open all day anyway.

[mansquatch]

I doubt that the fact the Vikings were going to throw behind the line of scrimmage was of any suprise to the 49ers. They had 2 games worth of tape of the Vikings running those kinds of plays. My question is why this is so bad?

Why can't you spread a defense horizontally vs. vertically? It seems to be working, maybe having Adrian Peterson prevents defenses from stacking up to defend Harvin on the outside? Anyone consider that? Maybe havign to account for 2 6'5" TE makes a defense hesitant to cheat up and clog the box. Nevermind, we don't have a 2001 Rams offense therefore we suck.

[BGM]

Ponder not throwing down field is a legitimate concern, IMO. So is not having a WR who can be considered a legitimate deep threat.

However, if this offense is effective and can win without it consistently, then no harm, no foul. (especially with replacement refs... get it? No foul? Oh, never mind...)

We shall see...

[Mothman]

Thanks Jim, I realized that

Sorry, I figured you did but I wasn't sure...

It just, to me anyway, seems while most of the fans are savoring this win and I have not read or heard of too many people proposing that this team IS now a play-off caliber team, I find it odd that with all of the other topics talking about the game, that there needs to be another topic directed at Ponder's inability to throw down field. Although Ponder made some amazing plays he did not have enough time (usually) to look down field for that type of throw and I do not remember that any of his "average" wide outs were getting open all day anyway.

I don't think they were and in some ways, the long, deliberate scoring drives actually served the Vikes better than a big play or two down the field would have anyway by allowing the Vikes defense to stay fresh.

[Mothman]

I think it's important to note that Ponder does throw downfield. The Vikings haven't completely abandoned thoise plays but if they aren't there (and they often aren't) there's no point in throwing deeper routes and forcing the ball into coverage. One reason the downfield throws Ponder has made haven't been very effective is because his receivers get little if any separation. Continuing to throw low percentage passes to covered receivers is hardly a winning strategy, which is why so many of us are looking forward to seeing Simpson (and Wright) get on the field. If those players can just provide legitimate downfield threats by getting open and making a few of long plays, it should help the offense quite a bit. The Vikes really need more speed on the outside.

[losperros]

I think it's important to note that Ponder does throw downfield. The Vikings haven't completely abandoned thoise plays but if they aren't there (and they often aren't) there's no point in throwing deeper routes and forcing the ball into coverage. One reason the downfield throws Ponder has made haven't been very effective is because his receivers get little if any separation. Continuing to throw low percentage passes to covered receivers is hardly a winning strategy, which is why so many of us are looking forward to seeing Simpson (and Wright) get on the field. If those players can just provide legitimate downfield threats by getting open and making a few of long plays, it should help the offense quite a bit. The Vikes really need more speed on the outside.

I agree. Every announcer that calls every single Vikings game points out that the WRs aren't getting open downfield. I was listening to Access Vikings the other day and all three guys said the same thing.

We need to keep in mind that Harvin is a slot guy, so much of the outside deep stuff has been handed to Aromashodu, Jenkins, and Burton. I'm a little surprised that Aromashodu can't simply outrun his coverage here and there, which must mean he doesn't have much in the way of feints and moves so he can get a step on the DBs. As for Jenkins, he doesn't have the speed. I mean, when does he ever get separation? I don't know what Burton's problem is. It's impossible for me to see much of this on a TV screen. I would love to watch the coach's film of the games.

On another note, Jim Souhan speculated that when Simpson gets on the field it will open the offense up, even if the long passes aren't always completed. The Vikings just need to show other teams that they will take shots downfield if the box is repeatedly stacked against them.

[S197]

We can run the triple option for all I care, as long as we keep winning. However, I don't think this can be kept up for the season. Ponder also had 10 passes against the Colts behind the LOS. It works because Percy Harvin is simply amazing in space. The concern is can Percy keep this up for an entire season? He's very similar to AD in that he doesn't shy away from contact, he actually goes out an initiates it. But he's significantly smaller than AD and you can already see times where he's slow to get up.

We're all hoping Simpson becomes that player who finally allows the Vikings to stretch the field so maybe this emphasis on receiver screens and such as an interim plan until he came back, we'll see. But I don't see PH holding up for another 13 games under this type of playcalling.

[VikingLord]

Not ironically, Alex Smith had a lower percentage of 10+ yard attempts than Ponder in that game. The two teams possess almost identical offensive strategies. 49ers have been better at running it so far, but in terms of how their offenses are designed, it's pretty much the same scheme.