Jaguars' Monroe has his way with sack machine Allen

[Eli]

Interesting.

After Further Review: Jaguars' Monroe has his way with sack machine Allen

Whipping Minnesota Vikings defensive end Jared Allen in a game is tough to do.

Jacksonville Jaguars left tackle Eugene Monroe not only whipped him last Sunday, but he abused him, tossing Allen around as if he were a junior high kid trying to make his way to the varsity.

It's hard to believe after watching the tape that Allen was the same relentless player who led the NFL in sacks last season.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2017 ... hine-allen

[dead_poet]

I hope Allen reads this.

[Purple bruise]

Yes indeed and I commented on that after the game and as I recall Mr. Kapp took exception to my commentary about Allen.. I have noticed an increase in these types of games coming from Allen and even went so far as suggesting trading him for a player or draft picks to upgrade the team in other areas. I believe that Griffin might fill in and become a Dwight Freeney type force on the other side away from Robison. Having 22 sacks in a season sounds great but against what teams and what impact did it actualy have on the outcome of these games. Do not get me wrong, I really like Allen but he is getting older and there have been way too many games when his name barely shows up on a stat sheet.

[mansquatch]

No offense, but you want to trade the best 4-3 DE in the league after a 22 sack campaign?

One game does not a season make.

[dead_poet]

Having 22 sacks in a season sounds great but against what teams

Why does that matter? Freeney, Strahan, Lawrence Taylor, Peppers, Ware, didn't/don't go up against top-5 tackles every game. You think they only accumulate stats against strong opponents? Great players abuse poor players. And it's not like Allen didn't show up last season. And even the greatest players today don't have monster games every single week.

I once again refer to this analysis: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... a-vikings/

+35.1 overall grade
+19.0 pass rush
+12.6 rush defense
66 QB disruptions

An excerpt:

While many sacks do come from unblocked pressure or in pursuit of the quarterback after the initial block has long since disintegrated, only three of Allen’s 24 sacks came in that fashion last season. He didn’t just record a huge sack total, but he did it displaying a comprehensive array of pass rush moves. He either led the league or was in the Top 3 in sacks from outside, inside, and bullrush moves. Not only is he relentless and impossible to gas out, but Allen isn’t just a one-trick pony; he is a smart pass rusher adept at multiple pass-rushing techniques.

The Viking also has impressive timing for the big play and isn’t any easier to stop when the offense knows the rush is coming. He tied for the league lead with seven sacks on third downs, the jackpot play for pass rushers because most of the time it forces the offense off the field and brings on the punter.

Perhaps the least publicized aspect of his season, though, was how well he played the run. Allen came in sixth in our ratings for 4-3 DEs against the run; trailing only Terrell Suggs and Jason Pierre-Paul among prolific sack-artists. In fact, against the Broncos in Week 13, he gave a clinic to those watching on how to play Tim Tebow and the read-option, and it is this complete play as much as anything that propels him so high in our Top 101 list.

and what impact did it actualy have on the outcome of these games.

Any time you sack or disrupt a QB into turning the ball over, it affects the outcome of games. In general, you can't put a win or loss on a defensive end's performance in a team sport. I might be mistaken, but it sounds like you're implying that if the sack didn't obviously contribute significantly to the outcome of a game (a sack on 4th-and-goal when leading by a point or something) than its meaning is diminished. I don't know how one would begin to weight sacks. All I know is Allen more often than not shows up when it counts. In addition to 22 sacks, he had 66 total tackles (which I believe was third for all DEs last season), 4 forced fumbles, an interception and 3 defended passes.

Do not get me wrong, I really like Allen but he is getting older and there have been way too many games when his name barely shows up on a stat sheet.

Feel free to let me know which games last year where his name wasn't on the stat sheet as one of the most dominant players on the field: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_ ... ared-allen

There were only three games last season he failed to register a sack (JPP, for example, had four. And only a half sack in four playoff games). Hurries/pressures aren't officially listed but they count and he has a bunch. Don't undermine their worth to a defense, even if they aren't an official statistic. You might be watching different games than I do.

Our team is considerably better with Allen on the field. Our chances of winning are greater with him on the field. I'm all for winning. Though I suppose the case could be made for getting a player with potential for later. But I guarantee you'd be weakening the team now for potential later. That's a pretty big gamble.

I see the reasoning behind the idea of trading Allen. But I think his value to the Vikings is more than the value he'd bring in return.

[losperros]

I hope Allen reads this.

I do too. I hope it gets Allen hyper motivated. The team needs him to be a force out there.

I was dead set against trading Allen mainly because of his monster performance last year and his 5 consecutive years with double digit sack totals. Also, I don't buy that sacks aren't important. They are tackles for a loss and can kill drives.

I just hope this was a one game event and we're not seeing a decline in Allen's skills.

[Purple bruise]

Why does that matter? Freeney, Strahan, Lawrence Taylor, Peppers, Ware, didn't/don't go up against top-5 tackles every game. You think they only accumulate stats against strong opponents? Great players abuse poor players. And it's not like Allen didn't show up last season. And even the greatest players today don't have monster games every single week.

I once again refer to this analysis: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... a-vikings/

+35.1 overall grade
+19.0 pass rush
+12.6 rush defense
66 QB disruptions

An excerpt:
Any time you sack or disrupt a QB into turning the ball over, it affects the outcome of games. In general, you can't put a win or loss on a defensive end's performance in a team sport. I might be mistaken, but it sounds like you're implying that if the sack didn't obviously contribute significantly to the outcome of a game (a sack on 4th-and-goal when leading by a point or something) than its meaning is diminished. I don't know how one would begin to weight sacks. All I know is Allen more often than not shows up when it counts. In addition to 22 sacks, he had 66 total tackles (which I believe was third for all DEs last season), 4 forced fumbles, an interception and 3 defended passes.
Feel free to let me know which games last year where his name wasn't on the stat sheet as one of the most dominant players on the field: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_ ... ared-allen

There were only three games last season he failed to register a sack (JPP, for example, had four. And only a half sack in four playoff games). Hurries/pressures aren't officially listed but they count and he has a bunch. Don't undermine their worth to a defense, even if they aren't an official statistic. You might be watching different games than I do.

Our team is considerably better with Allen on the field. Our chances of winning are greater with him on the field. I'm all for winning. Though I suppose the case could be made for getting a player with potential for later. But I guarantee you'd be weakening the team now for potential later. That's a pretty big gamble.

I see the reasoning behind the idea of trading Allen. But I think his value to the Vikings is more than the value he'd bring in return.

I am generaly on the same page as you but I think that your stat sheet bolsters my argument. When you look at his numbers and do keep in mind that sacks are counted as solo tackles he only had a total of 26 solo tackles (plus the 22 sacks) and only 18 assisted tackles ( which are counted in the 66 number of tackles he posted for the whole year and average out to be 1.125 assists per game.
Talk about games last year where he was next to invisible (like he was against the Jags) look at the Tampa game 2 total tackles, the Chiefs game 2 sacks and no other tackles or assists in the entire game, the Oakland game, 2 total tacles for the whole game, The Saints game 2 total tackles for the whole game. Yes he made the Pro Bowl DE last year but his monster sack total (3.5 against the Bears in one game) garnered him the status.
This team is trying to rebuild with younger players and although not too old Allen is getting up there. My idea was, while his value is up and the team is rebuilding, to trade him for high draft picks and let young tallent like Griffin be given the opprotunity take over and see how he stacks up. Just my humble opinion.

[Eli]

This team is trying to rebuild with younger players and although not too old Allen is getting up there. My idea was, while his value is up and the team is rebuilding, to trade him for high draft picks and let young tallent like Griffin be given the opprotunity take over and see how he stacks up. Just my humble opinion.

The time to do that would have been this past offseason. If Allen approaches the trade deadline still looking like he did against Jacksonville, he won't fetch much in a trade.

[mansquatch]

Sacks are not the be all end all stat, they are just the most flashy stat. Allen changes the complexity of a game from a passing standpoint. Having him at LE limits the time an offense feels it has to safely pass the football. Is it possible that since the majority of the Jag's passing completions were on short yardage routes that Allen had very limited opportunity to get to the passer? Yes, he could still get to him, but when it is a 2 sec release, that is a tough nut to crack. Also, might part of the reason they were running so many dink and dunk pases be because of Allen?

[S197]

I pointed this out in the game thread right after the conclusion. No, I don't think we should trade him and I'm sure he'll be fine down the road but this was a very disappointing performance for him. It wasn't because he was getting doubled or chipped, he was flat out dominated by a tackle that outplayed him. We've seen this before but usually it's by top tier tackles (like when Joe Thomas shut him down), Monroe isn't exactly in the same tier. I don't question Allen's heart, motor, whatever you want to call it but when you're on the sidelines screaming at your teammates as was tweeted during the game, you better walk the walk.

Allen will face a very inexperienced and battered Colts O-line so hopefully he will more than make up for last week.

[NextQuestion]

I don't know but IMO the Vikings defense weren't aggressive at all. They played their classic "let's not cover anyone and make the tackle 20 yards after the catch" Leslie Frazier defense. God forbid they could throw in a blitz or two and maybe he'll get to the QB.

[Mothman]

I don't know but IMO the Vikings defense weren't aggressive at all. They played their classic "let's not cover anyone and make the tackle 20 yards after the catch" Leslie Frazier defense. God forbid they could throw in a blitz or two and maybe he'll get to the QB.

Like the blitz where CB Chris Cook sacked the QB?

[NextQuestion]

Like the blitz where CB Chris Cook sacked the QB?

Hah. I was thrilled to see that happen but a little more of that would be nice.

[A.D_blazing]

No offense, but you want to trade the best 4-3 DE in the league after a 22 sack campaign?

One game does not a season make.

Allen is a one trick pony,a very good pass rusher but he's not considered the BEST in the game..

Kinda like everyone knows Adrian Peterson is the best RB in the NFL,even tough other RBs have better stats (like Chris Johnson 2000 yards season).

[S197]

Allen is a one trick pony,a very good pass rusher but he's not considered the BEST in the game..

Kinda like everyone knows Adrian Peterson is the best RB in the NFL,even tough other RBs have better stats (like Chris Johnson 2000 yards season).

I would disagree on Allen being a one trick pony. He's generally very solid in run support and also does a good job of using his hands (either to deflect passes or strip the QB) when he can't make the hit. In fact, at one point last season I think he was the only defender with an interception after a multiple-game dry spell by our secondary. As for being the best pass rusher in the game, I think the only other player who might have a claim at that is Pierre-Paul, curious as to who you think is a better pure pass rusher than Allen.