Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts

[mondry]

I wish we could run NE's offense here, Teddy would be the perfect fit for it. If we ever failed hard enough to cut Teddy I have no doubt he'd win a few superbowls for NE after Brady retires.

[Mothman]

Interpret that how you like but I see that bridgewater has struggled at being as efficient as brady but there not far apart from td total or overall completions.

???

They're miles apart.

Tom Brady
2014-15 (28 games):
696 completions, 64 TDs

Over the same time span, Bridgewater has 509 completions and 23 TDs in 26 games. In other words, in two more games, Brady has 41 more touchdowns and 187 more completions. He has many more but they are absolutely far apart in total TDs and overall completions.

That's just the beginning of the differences between the two. As Craig said, there is no comparison. Brady's one of the best QBs of all time. Bridgewater's producing at the level of recent Vikings flops at QB.

I wish we could run NE's offense here, Teddy would be the perfect fit for it. If we ever failed hard enough to cut Teddy I have no doubt he'd win a few superbowls for NE after Brady retires.

Did somebody spike the Vikings Kool-Aid?

[Raptorman]

Raptorman, why the 11-30 yard category when the others are broken into 10 yard increments? isn't it usually customary in these sort of splits to have an 11-20 yard category and a 21-30 yard category?

Good question. Well, there are actually 6 sections to ESPN stats. BLOs, 1-10 yards 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41+. I had done the first two BLOS-10 yards and 31 yards +. I had originally put it at 31-40 but that should be 31+. So I moved it from 6 to 3.

[randomghost11]

???

They're miles apart.

Tom Brady
2014-15 (28 games):
696 completions, 64 TDs

Over the same time span, Bridgewater has 509 completions and 23 TDs in 26 games. In other words, in two more games, Brady has 41 more touchdowns and 187 more completions. He has many more but they are absolutely far apart in total TDs and overall completions.

That's just the beginning of the differences between the two. As Craig said, there is no comparison. Brady's one of the best QBs of all time. Bridgewater's producing at the level of recent Vikings flops at QB.
Did somebody spike the Vikings Kool-Aid?

I wasnt trying to say teddy was just as good as brady, I was specifically talking about on deep throws. Brady is the best Qb in the league and miles better than teddy but thats not what my point is at all. My point was other qbs arent out here slinging it getting a deep ball td a game.

[DK Sweets]

Raptorman, thank you so much for the stats. I'm getting so tired of the pessimistic narrative on Bridgewater's game that doesn't hold water.

[Mothman]

Good question. Well, there are actually 6 sections to ESPN stats. BLOs, 1-10 yards 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41+. I had done the first two BLOS-10 yards and 31 yards +. I had originally put it at 31-40 but that should be 31+. So I moved it from 6 to 3.

Ah, I see now. Thanks for the explanation (and the stats).

[Mothman]

wasnt trying to say teddy was just as good as brady, I was specifically talking about on deep throws. Brady is the best Qb in the league and miles better than teddy but thats not what my point is at all. My point was other qbs arent out here slinging it getting a deep ball td a game.

I see. Sorry I misinterpreted your comment.

Brady's not the best example because of the offense in which he plays. Bridgewater's playing in an offense that's supposed to be more about power running and downfield passing. It's more akin to what Arizona does than what New England does. I realize some people think Bridgewater should be running a different sort of offense and that's a legitimate point but we can only evaluate him based on how he performs in the offense he's actually being asked to run.

If I'm not mistaken, the NFL breaks things down into short and deep passes and anything over 15 yards is considered "deep". Let's expand that to 20+ yards. At that point, a QB is clearly throwing down the field on longer routes. It also works better with the way the statistical information is broken down since we get it in 10 yard increments, not 5 yard increments.

This season, Bridgewater has completed 7 of 36 attempts over 20 yards, with 1 TD and 4 INTs.

In contrast, Palmer is 23 of 61 in that range with 8 TDs and 4 INTs.

Rivers is 12 of 36 (5 TD, 0 INT)
Wilson is 16 of 36 (7 TD, 3 INT)
Carr is 17 of 38 (7 TD, 1 INT)
Rodgers is 12 of 38 (3 TD, 0 INT)
Brees is 17 of 43 (5 TD, 4 INT)
Brady is 15 of 44 (1 TD, 1 INT)

I only used the QBs Raptorman listed in his post. As you can see, Palmer is an outlier in terms of the number of deep throws he attempts. Bridgewater is attempting a similar number of deep throws to most of the other QBs, although he's on the low end among this group. As you can see, Rivers and Wilson have been able to get far more out of the same number of deep throws. Carr has been able to do even better on just 2 more throws. Rodgers has nearly twice the number of completions and 3 TDs on 2 more deep attempts (although, as we all know, one of them was a Hail Mary) and so on...

Bridgewater has the fewest completions and the most INTs in this group on passes of over 20 yards. He's the only one who hasn't come close to cracking double digits in completions on those passes yet.

He's not stacking up well in this department in 2015 and I hope that's clear to everybody. 7 completions of 20+ yards with 1 TD and 4 INTs on those longer attempts should help people understand why defenses are so willing to dare the Vikings to throw over the top. I'm sure we'll all continue to debate how much of this production in the 20+ range has to do with Bridgewater and how much of it is due to his OL, receivers, Turner, etc. but it's obvious that the Vikings have almost no downfield passing game in this deep range in 2015. It's hurting them.

[Mothman]

Here's an excellent, and quite fair, article by Mark Craig:

http://www.startribune.com/one-final-pl ... 361691671/

Any parent who has taught a child to ride a bike knows how it feels to go from controlling the situation to trusting the situation.

One moment, everybody is safe. Dad has one grip on the handlebar and the other on the seat. But riding a bike later in life is much better when Pops isn’t hanging on for dear life at 3 mph. So there is a time to let go and realize that skinned knees are part of the risk-and-reward development process.

That’s where the Vikings coaching staff is with quarterback Teddy Bridgewater. The coaches trust that he will ride his bike consistently well one day. He might even pop wheelies and do backflips. But first, there are going to be times like Thursday night, when he’s going along very well but makes a mistake and ends up on the ground in a twisted heap.

He goes on to write about TB's coaches letting go of the metaphorical bike and then takes a look at what Bridgewater did on third downs against AZ, leading up to that fateful final play.

He ends with:

So young Theodore has shown he can ride the bike. How consistently well and for how long? Who knows? But there’s evidence and eight wins to suggest he’s pedaling in the right direction, even if he still wipes out occasionally.

[The Breeze]

I like those QB stats, but aside from Rogers and Wilson due to their mobility, I would wager all those numbers fall if those QBs had to play behind this line.
Not saying they would be at TB's level...just that it's more than just the QB that generates those results.
Having said that, I have issues with his lack of progress in throwing guys open and hitting them deep. I'm willing to give it more time in hopes that his OC and QB coach can create some positives there.
-
I think TB compares fairly favorably to Montana in terms of what he can actually do with the ball. Whether or not he does it depends on a few things.

[Purple Reign]

if you are seriously comparing tom brady to teddy bridgewater, on any level, you need to reevaluate a lot of things. you have to be kidding me. tom brady may be the greatest qb to ever live. and yet, the majority of his career he's done it with bad receivers other than our guy randy moss.

I wouldn't call Wes Welker and Gronkowski bad receivers.

[TeddyBaller]

if you are seriously comparing tom brady to teddy bridgewater, on any level, you need to reevaluate a lot of things. you have to be kidding me. tom brady may be the greatest qb to ever live. and yet, the majority of his career he's done it with bad receivers other than our guy randy moss.

Russell Wilson will surpass Brady eventually, barring he stays healthy

[TeddyBaller]

lol Norv is obviously the problem, you never know what your gonna get with his play calling... zim should have brought in a young oc with teddy( the game has passed norv by)

[Jordysghost]

Russell Wilson will surpass Brady eventually, barring he stays healthy

Bwaha, no.

[Raptorman]

Bwaha, no.

Yup, because Wilson is a game manager. A game manager who just happened to throw 17 TD's and 1 INT in the last 5 games. Wait, they overpaid him as well.

[Mothman]

Yup, because Wilson is a game manager. A game manager who just happened to throw 17 TD's and 1 INT in the last 5 games. Wait, they overpaid him as well.

He's just a really effective game manager! Hey, they always say that label doesn't need to have a negative connotation. Now we have proof.