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Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:49 pm**

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:29 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:15 pm

Lol if you think that, I’m sorry but I’m going to laugh at you. Cousins can make just about any throw he wants to. Do you REALLY think stefanski says “hmm here’s a good play but I don’t think Kirk can make that throw today so let’s call something else”??? I don’t think you could possibly be more wrong and that might be the worst attempt at defending someone I have ever seen.

Dude you are DIGGING! You dug so deep with that attempt that you might have hit the earths core
You don't think an OC changes their play calling based on what is working and what isn't?

Interesting...

You didn’t say what is working and what isn’t. If something works or doesn’t work it’s not necessarily because of the QB. How the defense has been playing specific plays is why he would change play calls. Either way, thats not what you said. You said he could have changed his play calls because of cousins “struggling with basic throws”. I can 110% guarantee you that there is not a single play in there playbook that they won’t run because they don’t think cousins can make the throw. If they think a play could work whether it’s a basic throw or difficult throw, they are going to run it. Good attempt at covering that up but it didn’t work lol. Like I said, you’re digging....desperately

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:01 pm**

What about Thielen? Do you guys think we see him again before the BYE? Not having him today hurt.

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:04 pm**

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:49 pm
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:29 pm

You don't think an OC changes their play calling based on what is working and what isn't?

Interesting...
You didn’t say what is working and what isn’t. If something works or doesn’t work it’s not necessarily because of the QB. How the defense has been playing specific plays is why he would change play calls. Either way, thats not what you said. You said he could have changed his play calls because of cousins “struggling with basic throws”. I can 110% guarantee you that there is not a single play in there playbook that they won’t run because they don’t think cousins can make the throw. If they think a play could work whether it’s a basic throw or difficult throw, they are going to run it. Good attempt at covering that up but it didn’t work lol. Like I said, you’re digging....desperately

Yes, I am clearly the desperate one here.

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:07 pm**

Purple Domination wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:01 pm What about Thielen? Do you guys think we see him again before the BYE? Not having him today hurt.

His loss today was huge. Probably evened out a game that should have favored the Vikings. Not as big a loss as Mahomes for the Chiefs, but not far behind.

As we all know, hammies are unpredictable. Thielen obviously thought he could go today, and it didn't go well. Having a hard time believing he'll be ready next week.

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:16 pm**

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:04 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:49 pm

You didn’t say what is working and what isn’t. If something works or doesn’t work it’s not necessarily because of the QB. How the defense has been playing specific plays is why he would change play calls. Either way, thats not what you said. You said he could have changed his play calls because of cousins “struggling with basic throws”. I can 110% guarantee you that there is not a single play in there playbook that they won’t run because they don’t think cousins can make the throw. If they think a play could work whether it’s a basic throw or difficult throw, they are going to run it. Good attempt at covering that up but it didn’t work lol. Like I said, you’re digging....desperately
Yes, I am clearly the desperate one here.

I agree given that you just attempted to defend the OC in the end of the game saying he could have changed his plays because cousins couldn’t make basic throws.

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:17 pm**

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:07 pm
Purple Domination wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:01 pm What about Thielen? Do you guys think we see him again before the BYE? Not having him today hurt.
His loss today was huge. Probably evened out a game that should have favored the Vikings. Not as big a loss as Mahomes for the Chiefs, but not far behind.

As we all know, hammies are unpredictable. Thielen obviously thought he could go today, and it didn't go well. Having a hard time believing he'll be ready next week.

Yeah I don’t think he’ll play next week either. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they held him out vs Denver. He might not be back until after the bye

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:19 pm**

KC is 2nd in scoring efficiency this season, 22nd in defensive scoring.

Mahomes is very good and makes the offense better, but even without him that offense is great. Playmakers at every position, and a great offensive coach.

They are a good team and they are better suited to win it all this year than they were last year...and we probably beat them if not for a couple of STs gaffes.

It isn't that bad people.

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:22 pm**

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:17 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:07 pm
His loss today was huge. Probably evened out a game that should have favored the Vikings. Not as big a loss as Mahomes for the Chiefs, but not far behind.

As we all know, hammies are unpredictable. Thielen obviously thought he could go today, and it didn't go well. Having a hard time believing he'll be ready next week.
Yeah I don’t think he’ll play next week either. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they held him out vs Denver. He might not be back until after the bye

Agreed, if he can’t go next week, then we might as well hold him out until after the BYE. As Kapp said, hammies are tricky.

Posted: **Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:40 pm**

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:58 pm The big-play touchdowns were just gut busters today, especially the run. It's the thing we've been really good at on defense ... preventing the big play. And for most of the day, Kansas City struggled.

But that 91-yard run. Wow. That one hurt. If there was one play on defense that cost us the game, that was it. Hill is so fast ... he'll burn you every now and then. But that run killed us. The chances of them driving the length of the field against our D were pretty minimal. That play won the game for KC, IMO.

Agree. I thought for the most part, the secondary was OK. But that run. That's what the Vikings needed from Cook. KC made the plays, Vikings didn't.

Posted: **Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:13 am**

It is about clock management and trying to save your timeouts there! Just need to do better!

Posted: **Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:17 am**

When Cousins ran and came up a yard shy of the sticks with his slide, I knew the Vikings would lose. That single play shows that Cousins has reverted back to his fear mindset. He said he should have looked over to the sideline to see how many yards he needed, but all that tells me is he didn't know how many yards he needed. If he knew, there is no need to look at anything other than where that ball needs to be when the ref's whistle blows. Whether he's afraid to get hit, or whether he doesn't know where the line to gain is, the simple fact is, he wasn't aware and it cost them a 1st down that could have kept a critical drive alive.

While I'm at it on the offense, what about those last 2 3-and-out drives? Couldn't pick up a single first down in the closing minutes when even a single 1st down might have done the trick? Truly pathetic.

And while I'm at it on the offense still, I had my reservations about Kevin Stefanksi's "genius" status, but yesterday's opening drive confirmed he is anything BUT a genius. Mr. Genius OC starts out the game with 3 passes. Yes, maybe KC was showing a run-heavy look on defense, and maybe if Cousins could complete simple passes to wide open receivers on short routes it would have been OK, but you come out against a weak run defense and throw 3 times, you clearly don't believe in the strength of your offense. KC's defense was handed a bunch of confidence on that opening drive, and they carried that throughout the game.

Defense... How bad is Zimmer's defense really? Not statistically, but in reality? Oh, I know that is sacrilege to say, but what did the defense HAVE to do yesterday? What, of all the things they needed to stop, did they fail to stop? Yes, big plays! KC is not a grind-it-down-the-field offense. Not even close. They'll hit you on a few short routes before they hit you deep, so you have to be ready for the deep stuff and not give it up. And yet, time after time that is exactly what the Vikings did. Big play after big play down the field. Some were really sweet plays, but they were killers, and for a supposedly great defense, inexcusable. Give KC one or two of them just because they are KC. But to surrender them over and over like they did? And then, to add insult to injury, you give up a 91 yard run too? How many great defenses in the history of the league gave up a 90+ yard run?

Pathetic doesn't describe the defense yesterday. I'll give them some credit for the pressure they got on Moore. They caused some fumbles that KC was very lucky to recover and that could have made up for their ineptitude in other areas had the Vikings managed to recover them, but alas, they didn't. So you ultimately come back to the cold, hard truth that the Vikings have an "almost" defense. Almost good enough, but not quite, at least against the better offenses.

Well, next Sunday's game is a prime-time Sunday nighter against another good team on the road. Which Kirk Cousins will we see? The aggressive version who is going to take chances and run until someone hits him, or the nervous one who overthrows simple short routes as well as harder deep ones, holds the ball way too long before not finding anyone, and slides short of the sticks because he doesn't know where they are? Which defense will we see? The one that clamps down late and wins the game, or the one that allows a wide open receiver to run for 20 yards after the catch on 3rd-and-4 to the Vikings 20? Which overall level of incompetence will we see from the highly paid veteran core of this team?

Posted: **Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:34 am**

I stopped thinking about the game for a few hours, and tried to take the emotion out of it. It worked. Some of you should try it.

My summation: This was the ultimate definition of a team loss. The thing about a close loss like this, is that everyone can point to whatever bothered them the most and say “that’s the reason we lost”, and they can confirm that theory with facts. And each reason is different and valid, and none are the sole reason we lost. We lost to a really talented team, in their house... and we could have won. It's frustrating.

The optimist:
1. We are 6-3, and if the season ended today, we are in the playoffs.
2. Every loss matters, but an AFC loss for us is the best loss for tie-breakers. Yay?
3. We've lost 3 games. All on the road, and if we were honest before the season started, all 3 would be losses we expected. @Chi, @GB, and @KC. Sure, getting even one of those would be great, but it's hardly the end of the world to lose those 3 very tough games. We were very competitive in 2 of those. We missed opportunities in both GB and KC, but none of the 3 losses are season enders. All NFL teams lose. Even the best teams.
4. The Packers lost to a much worse team than we did yesterday, and they looked AWFUL doing it. It's probably just a bad day for them, but we can always hope they start a mini downward spiral for a few games.

The mixed:
1. Cousins had a weird day. He seemed to have the yips on the shorter throws, but on the medium-deep stuff he wasn't bad. He didn't have a horrible game, but he didn't have a great game. He just wasn't his normal, accurate self. He made enough plays to help us win though, in my opinion. Sure we can always hope for more, and a winning drive would have been great.
2. Defense was wildly inconsistent as a whole. One series we looked like world beaters, and the next KC was ripping off huge plays. Some of that I expected, because they have tremendous receivers, and Hill is going to get his. He's just too talented. The 91 yard run by Williams was a killer, and out of character for the Vikings.
3. Play calling. Looking back and a few of those series, I'm left just scratching my head at what was being called. Personally, I've seen enough of the stupid TE screens. It's not that they can't be sort of successful, but seriously, put the ball into more of a play makers hands. We didn't do nearly enough to get Cook out on the edge and into space. Granted, the poor blocking was an issue. Running the ball up the middle was strange, but maybe the edges were not there. I don't know enough to judge that, but it feels like we didn't run our best plays.

The pessimist:
1. The missed XP. I think this changed the game a lot. It's hard to get too pissed at Bailey, who for the most part has been excellent this year, but that miss really hurt. It didn't cost us the win on it's own, but it certainly didn't help, and it allowed KC to settle for a FG instead of having to go for the end zone before the 2-minute warning.
2. Big plays. We gave up too many, and didn't really make any. We have been a team of big plays during the winning streak, and we just just make many yesterday.
3. Penalties. This is probably the most frustrating thing for me this year. For one thing, the league is officiating the games WAY too much. BUT, we are getting penalties in the worst spots, and most of those were technically warranted. It seems we are lacking some team discipline that I wouldn't expect from this coach.
4. Run blocking. This was a surprise. Cook had 73 yards... I believe all of which came AFTER first contact. That's a sign of some bad blocking. KC somehow turned a weakness into a strength yesterday, and we just were not good at figuring them out.
5. Thielen. Losing Thielen that early was bad. I was really surprised he was active, and not at all surprised that he didn't last. I think if he's healthy, he makes enough plays to turn this game. Treadwell is not a game changer, and Diggs was shut down in this game unfortunately. We also failed to use Bisi. Overall, it felt like they weren't expected Thielen to go out again... and didn't have a plan in place if he did. That's probably not true in reality, but it felt that way.

I'm sure there is more, and I'm sure my arm-chair analysis can be shredded, but those are my thoughts this morning. Overall, I still feel pretty good about this team, but we are seeing some disturbing trends on defense, and that makes me a little nervous.

Posted: **Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:42 am**

Dames wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:34 am I stopped thinking about the game for a few hours, and tried to take the emotion out of it. It worked. Some of you should try it.

My summation: This was the ultimate definition of a team loss. The thing about a close loss like this, is that everyone can point to whatever bothered them the most and say “that’s the reason we lost”, and they can confirm that theory with facts. And each reason is different and valid, and none are the sole reason we lost. We lost to a really talented team, in their house... and we could have won. It's frustrating.

The optimist:
1. We are 6-3, and if the season ended today, we are in the playoffs.
2. Every loss matters, but an AFC loss for us is the best loss for tie-breakers. Yay?
3. We've lost 3 games. All on the road, and if we were honest before the season started, all 3 would be losses we expected. @Chi, @GB, and @KC. Sure, getting even one of those would be great, but it's hardly the end of the world to lose those 3 very tough games. We were very competitive in 2 of those. We missed opportunities in both GB and KC, but none of the 3 losses are season enders. All NFL teams lose. Even the best teams.
4. The Packers lost to a much worse team than we did yesterday, and they looked AWFUL doing it. It's probably just a bad day for them, but we can always hope they start a mini downward spiral for a few games.

The mixed:
1. Cousins had a weird day. He seemed to have the yips on the shorter throws, but on the medium-deep stuff he wasn't bad. He didn't have a horrible game, but he didn't have a great game. He just wasn't his normal, accurate self. He made enough plays to help us win though, in my opinion. Sure we can always hope for more, and a winning drive would have been great.
2. Defense was wildly inconsistent as a whole. One series we looked like world beaters, and the next KC was ripping off huge plays. Some of that I expected, because they have tremendous receivers, and Hill is going to get his. He's just too talented. The 91 yard run by Williams was a killer, and out of character for the Vikings.
3. Play calling. Looking back and a few of those series, I'm left just scratching my head at what was being called. Personally, I've seen enough of the stupid TE screens. It's not that they can't be sort of successful, but seriously, put the ball into more of a play makers hands. We didn't do nearly enough to get Cook out on the edge and into space. Granted, the poor blocking was an issue. Running the ball up the middle was strange, but maybe the edges were not there. I don't know enough to judge that, but it feels like we didn't run our best plays.

The pessimist:
1. The missed XP. I think this changed the game a lot. It's hard to get too pissed at Bailey, who for the most part has been excellent this year, but that miss really hurt. It didn't cost us the win on it's own, but it certainly didn't help, and it allowed KC to settle for a FG instead of having to go for the end zone before the 2-minute warning.
2. Big plays. We gave up too many, and didn't really make any. We have been a team of big plays during the winning streak, and we just just make many yesterday.
3. Penalties. This is probably the most frustrating thing for me this year. For one thing, the league is officiating the games WAY too much. BUT, we are getting penalties in the worst spots, and most of those were technically warranted. It seems we are lacking some team discipline that I wouldn't expect from this coach.
4. Run blocking. This was a surprise. Cook had 73 yards... I believe all of which came AFTER first contact. That's a sign of some bad blocking. KC somehow turned a weakness into a strength yesterday, and we just were not good at figuring them out.
5. Thielen. Losing Thielen that early was bad. I was really surprised he was active, and not at all surprised that he didn't last. I think if he's healthy, he makes enough plays to turn this game. Treadwell is not a game changer, and Diggs was shut down in this game unfortunately. We also failed to use Bisi. Overall, it felt like they weren't expected Thielen to go out again... and didn't have a plan in place if he did. That's probably not true in reality, but it felt that way.

I'm sure there is more, and I'm sure my arm-chair analysis can be shredded, but those are my thoughts this morning. Overall, I still feel pretty good about this team, but we are seeing some disturbing trends on defense, and that makes me a little nervous.

Great post. Definitely agree here. This defense is starting to worry me. Guys say Cousins is "only good against bad teams" (which I dont agree with) but I'm starting to think the same goes for this defense. The best offenses we've played this year are probably GB, Philly, KC and Detroit. In all 4 of those games, the defense wasnt very good, at all.

I am completely baffled as to why Zim doesnt blitz more and is so conservative. He is a master of getting a free rusher when we blitz and when we did that and show that aggressive style at the end of that game yesterday, Matt Moore was absolutely lost. He was fumbling right and left, back pedaling 10 yards and looked downright scared. Zim knew the game was on the line at that point and became aggressive. Granted they got a few quick passes out of it but for the most part, we were dominating their front. But that's what ticks me off, why are we waiting until then to do it?? If he blitzed more early on and was more aggressive, Matt Moore crumbles and we win by at least 10 or more IMO.

Posted: **Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:52 am**

Dames wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:34 am We lost to a really talented team, in their house... and we could have won. It's frustrating.

The Vikings definitely earned their participation award yesterday...

You're right about trying to take the emotion out of it, but I'd almost rather leave the emotion in, because the irrationality of that emotion is really the only thing that can keep me hopeful for this team.

If I take the emotion out of it and look at the facts, I see a team that isn't nearly as good in reality as they are on paper. I see a QB who can't settle down and execute simple or difficult plays and lacks awareness in key situations where he can't afford to be unaware. I see a defense that knows what's coming and still can't stop it, nor can they actually dictate to an offense in key situations where they need a stop. I see a special teams that continues to struggle, and a coaching staff that does likewise, coming up with ill-advised calls and a strategy that doesn't mate with the facts heading into a game.

If only the better teams in the NFL were all like the Giants, Redskins, and Falcons... The Vikes under Zimmer would be Superbowl-bound. Unfortunately, to get to anything meaningful in this league, you have to be able to beat teams that want it BAD and have talent, and, the way this particular Vikings team is going, you're going to have to beat said teams in their stadiums to boot. That is something the Vikings haven not shown any ability to do so far.

I guess we'll see if they can shake that off against a very good Dallas team in a primetime game. Anyone here want to bet they'll do that?

[Insert cricket smily here...]

Posted: **Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:54 am**

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:42 am Granted they got a few quick passes out of it but for the most part, we were dominating their front.

You saw the last play before the winning field goal was kicked, right?

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