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Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:45 pm
by VikingLord
Mothman wrote:Bridgewater does too. Since he's the one who takes the hits when they break down on a passing play, he should understand them as well as anybody. Even if his coaches let him down with a bad play call, a sack or turnover in that situation ends the game and he was the person most responsible for making sure that didn't happen. He had the ball so he was the only one in control of the situation and he needed to throw it away. Don't step up and double clutch, just get rid of it.
Agree with this too, but only to the degree that once the ball is snapped it's up to Bridgewater to then manage the play and the outcome.
In my view, the only play that should have been called was something quick and outside, like a bubble screen. Basically a play where the QB gets the ball, drops, and fires towards the sideline.
Given how aggressive the Cardinals were playing, it just seems like the better option was to not risk it and just kick the field goal on 3rd down.
Freeney deserves credit, sure. Kalil deserves some blame, sure. But I agree with you that Bridgewater bears the burden of post-snap knowing what he needs to do and when he needs to do it by.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:18 pm
by Mothman
I think 13 seconds was enough time to run one more play in that situation but the whole things rests on the QB making a good decision. The time only becomes a serious issue if the decision is bad.
The QB should be able to get the ball out of his hands in 2-2.5 seconds (at most) after the snap and the route needs to be designed to allow that to happen.
If the receiver isn't in position to make the catch and get out of bounds, the QB needs to throw the ball away. If the receiver is open near the sidelines but covered well enough that he might not get out, throw it away. If there's no receiver open, throw it away. Basically, if there's any situation other than an easy throw, catch and step out of bounds, throw it away.
You obviously need to have a well-designed play in that situation but the main danger is a poor choice by the QB.
The Vikes blew it.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:51 pm
by mosscarter
i think the final play was systematic of what we've seen from bridgewater all year mothman. he's been double pumping way more this year than last year and he's been hesitant. when time is a factor you have to know where you are going to go with the football. if that play isn't there throw it away. he dropped back and had no idea where he was going to go, he pumped and looked around and then out came the ball. it seems like teddy is only good at getting us close; but nothing beyond that. as noted, his touchdown statistics are horrible and i don't think mike wallace is the problem. teddy has to be in close range to even have a chance at throwing a td and that isn't a good sign. so many other teams play to win and i didn't feel we played to win on that last drive at all. they put all their eggs in one basket with walsh; who at times has been inconsistent. why don't we take shots to the end zone? the way i see it it can only be one of two things: they don't have confidence in bridgewater, or bridgewater simply cannot make those downfield throws period whether they call the play or not. he hasn't shown me anything whatsoever of a vertical passing element. he looked more poised in the pocket last night, but so many of those throws were short and there were a ton of yac. until, or if he learns to throw deeper passes we'll never beat the tougher teams. the alarming part of this season is against denver, green bay, seattle, and the cardinals were all loses. if we can't beat the good teams what is the point? i said it before that late last year and the first half of this year our schedule was so easy.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:57 pm
by TeddyBaller
Mothman wrote:
I don't know but once it was called, it was going to be run. At that point, the coaches had made their blunder. TB needed to preserve the opportunity to kick the field goal.
Matt Ryan would be perfect for the Vikings
i want teddy in the ATL
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:13 pm
by 808vikingsfan
Mothman wrote:I think 13 seconds was enough time to run one more play in that situation but the whole things rests on the QB making a good decision. The time only becomes a serious issue if the decision is bad.
The QB should be able to get the ball out of his hands in 2-2.5 seconds (at most) after the snap and the route needs to be designed to allow that to happen.
If the receiver isn't in position to make the catch and get out of bounds, the QB needs to throw the ball away. If the receiver is open near the sidelines but covered well enough that he might not get out, throw it away. If there's no receiver open, throw it away. Basically, if there's any situation other than an easy throw, catch and step out of bounds, throw it away.
You obviously need to have a well-designed play in that situation but the main danger is a poor choice by the QB.
The Vikes blew it.
I think you meant to say, "Bridgewater blew it."
I had an emergency call for work last night so I wasn't able to give my full attention to the 2nd half of the game. But I think I have to agree with Jim on this one. Bridgewater has to know the situation. The image that TSonn posted, 3 of the receivers are in the middle of the field. I think the smart decision at that point is to abort the play and kick the FG. I'd like to say that you have to trust your teammates to do their job. I'd like to say that you follow the designed play no matter what. But I think in this instance, you chuck the ball OOB.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:21 pm
by S197
Zimmer's head:
"41 yards... I bet the kid will Walsh it to the right from here. Better get it a little closer."
"Alright #5, quick sideline routes, this line has been Norving their blocks all night long so get it out quick."
"Stop patting the god #### ball and throw it!"
"Son of a #### stupid #### mother ##### ##### sheep #### suck #### #### !!!!"
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:34 pm
by mosscarter
you guys are missing the entire point i've been saying for weeks. bridgewater doesn't know what to do, how much more obvious does it need to be? we have qb problem. i've been saying it longer than anyone on this board aside from mothman.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:01 am
by sneaxsneax
mosscarter wrote:you guys are missing the entire point i've been saying for weeks. bridgewater doesn't know what to do, how much more obvious does it need to be? we have qb problem. i've been saying it longer than anyone on this board aside from mothman.
Doesn't know what to do? Dude what are you talking about. You think you have been vindicated by that play? You think a game where he played very well and then got strip sacked in under 3 seconds on a play that shouldn't have been called and that ended in a #### up that was largely dude to a complete wiff by out LT? Holy #### dude, I see you in another thread thinking a 90 year old immobile manning is a good idea for this team. If my palm hit my face any harder it would come out the back of my head.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:38 am
by mosscarter
same exact result in the denver game. explain that to me. please, i'm serious enlighten me. bridgewater is a weak armed over hyped qb and he has done nothing to prove that wrong. his statistics as a starter are among the top 5 worst in the entire nfl. he does not have it get used to it. what games have you been watching? every single pass of his is either a dump, screen, or 5 yd out pattern he is pathetic as an nfl qb. he cannot throw down the field its obvious.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:51 am
by 808vikingsfan
808vikingsfan wrote:
I think you meant to say, "Bridgewater blew it."
I had an emergency call for work last night so I wasn't able to give my full attention to the 2nd half of the game. But I think I have to agree with Jim on this one. Bridgewater has to know the situation. The image that TSonn posted, 3 of the receivers are in the middle of the field. I think the smart decision at that point is to abort the play and kick the FG. I'd like to say that you have to trust your teammates to do their job. I'd like to say that you follow the designed play no matter what. But I think in this instance, you chuck the ball OOB.
On the same note, if you're getting tackled on a reverse, you don't try and force the handoff.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:07 am
by Dmizzle0
Teddy and the Defense did what they could do to keep us in the game. Initially I was mad only at Teddy for that play. I mean he could have had a got rid of the ball quicker but I think its on whoever mad that play call. This loss hurts only because I keep wondering if we could've pulled though in OT.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:24 am
by The Breeze
808vikingsfan wrote:On the same note, if you're getting tackled on a reverse, you don't try and force the handoff.
OMG...that was a horrible decision.
He was looking right at the defender bear down on him as tried to convert that exchange.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:06 pm
by sneaxsneax
mosscarter wrote:same exact result in the denver game. explain that to me. please, i'm serious enlighten me. bridgewater is a weak armed over hyped qb and he has done nothing to prove that wrong. his statistics as a starter are among the top 5 worst in the entire nfl. he does not have it get used to it. what games have you been watching? every single pass of his is either a dump, screen, or 5 yd out pattern he is pathetic as an nfl qb. he cannot throw down the field its obvious.
Because we have protection that holds up for a few seconds, the majority of his passes are going to be plays that develop in time for that. It is actually really positive that he can go through his reads understand the coverage and then throw to his check down whilst evading pressure on nearly half of his snaps. Maybe he should stare down his 1st read and force a throw and throw a pick six.
No one calls tom brady bad, and most of his throws this season have been little dink and dunk passes to lewis and Edelman. I have seen teddy make the intermediate throws, and given the time to do so he can and does make them. The deep ball has been a bit of an issue but I think the chemistry is just lacking with Wallace, if he's back next year teddy and him really need to work on it.
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:51 pm
by Purple bruise
Re: Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:40 pm
by Raptorman
mosscarter wrote:same exact result in the denver game. explain that to me. please, i'm serious enlighten me. bridgewater is a weak armed over hyped qb and he has done nothing to prove that wrong. his statistics as a starter are among the top 5 worst in the entire nfl. he does not have it get used to it. what games have you been watching? every single pass of his is either a dump, screen, or 5 yd out pattern he is pathetic as an nfl qb. he cannot throw down the field its obvious.
Let's play myth vs reality. The myth is that Bridgewater is a dink and dunk QB unlike other QB's in the NFL. The reality is something different. So here goes. Bridgewater's passes compared to some other "REAL" NFL QB's. This is pass attempts into known area of the field. Data comes from ESPN. As people can see, Teddy has about the same number of attempts behind the LOS to the 10 yards past the LOS as other "real" NFL QB's. Now, I have done this before and will do it for any QB you want. But I can tell you the results are going to be about the same. His completion percentage past 31 yards is down below what many other do. Carr looks like a downfield freak at this point. BTW, Rodgers, Brees, and Rivers all had a higher percentage of attempts behind the LOS than Bridgewater. This is the reality of NFL QB's.
Edit: I add Culpepper and Favre on the bottom and addded percentage of TD's from 31+ as well as corrected the 31-40 should have read 31+. Total number of TD's thrown by these QB's that are in he 31+ range. 17. Wilson has the most at 4.
Code: Select all
BLOS-10yards 11-30 yards 31+ yards % comp 31+ % of TDs from 31+
Brady 73.6 23.5 2.9 23 0.0
Rivers 71.5 25.1 3.4 27 9.1
Bridgewater 69.9 26.6 3.5 17 12.5
Brees 68.8 27.3 3.9 31 15.0
Wilson 68.0 27.0 5.0 38 22.2
Rodgers 66.4 30.0 3.6 36 4.2
Carr 65.1 31.5 3.4 62 12.5
Palmer 55.4 37.4 7.2 38 10.3
I figured let's add a couple of Vikings QB's to the mix. So I came up with Culpepper in 2003-04 and Favre in 2009. Obviously their best years on the Vikings. Now, granted, they did go down field more often. But the numbers are not that much greater.
Code: Select all
BLOS-10yards 11-30 yards 31-40 yards % comp 31-40
Culpepper 03 69.7 23.7 6.6 50
Culpepper 04 67.8 23.4 8.8 28
Favre 2009 70.6 25.1 4.3 43