Teddy Bridgewater

[StumpHunter]

You’re comparing this year because it “helps” your argument. That wasn’t the discussion. It was 2015 teddy vs 2019 cousins. No need to sway it so it works in your favor. No less you’re going off of a 5 game sample size for teddy.

I am comparing this year's stats to this year's stats because they are the most relevant. If the most relevant stats also help my point, it is because I am right.

And Vikings a slightly better team? Coming from the guy that said this before the saints game this year:

If the Vikings win, it is because the OC called a great game and Zimmer out coached Peyton on defense. They are a better team than we are. Much better.

But now all of the sudden since you’re defending teddy, the Vikings were a slightly better team than the saints this year?? Something isn’t adding up.

Clearly I, along with the majority of experts were wrong about them being better. We beat them at their place with our QB struggling for most of 4 quarters. We were the better team.

However, weren't you arguing they were not the better team before that game? Then we beat them and that somehow now makes them better than us? That doesn't make any sense.

Given the 2015 and 2019 were very similar in many ways, does anyone find it odd that even with cousins in a run first offense, just like Teddy was in in 2015, cousins drastically outperformed Teddy in just about any passing category you could ask for. And also got a playoff win on the road as a massive underdog.

There really isn’t even an argument here when comparing the two.

Much better offensive line
Much better receivers
A RB who helps the passing game and doesn't detract from it
A QB passing out of formations that fit his strengths versus one passing out of formations that fit his RB's (Shotgun versus under center)
A QB in his EIGHTH season versus one in his SECOND.

Thy did throw a similar number of times though, so I guess they are the exact same.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Read my previous post regarding a “lack of weapons”. That was far from the case.

Yes, your post had your opinion of those weapons, that is true.

Then explain how they aren’t weapons instead of repeating yourself and acting like you have an argument each time by saying that. AP, Wallace, Diggs, Wright and a younger Rudy? How are they not “weapons”?

[StumpHunter]

Yes, your post had your opinion of those weapons, that is true.

Then explain how they aren’t weapons instead of repeating yourself and acting like you have an argument each time by saying that. AP, Wallace, Diggs, Wright and a younger Rudy? How are they not “weapons”?

AP was a liability in the passing game at that point of his career. Wallace had #1 WR snaps and was statistically the worst WR on the team, behind Jarius Wright who was a capable #3, and Charles Johnson, who barely played, who both caught for more yards per route run than Wallace. He might have had some success running a bunch of short routes in Baltimore, but when he played for the Vikings he was the worst #1 WR in the NFL. That is compared to other WRs on his team, catching passes from the same QB. Diggs was a great rookie, but he was a rookie and not nearly the same WR he has become. Rudy was the very average TE he has been his entire career.

[Mothman]

AP was a liability in the passing game at that point of his career.

He was fine he just had a coaching staff too shortsighted to use him much in that capacity. He wasn't the smooth receiver Cook is but fans talk about him like he couldn't run a route without stumbling over his shoelaces or pick up a blitz (he was able to do both).

Wallace had #1 WR snaps and was statistically the worst WR on the team...

... and we're supposed to believe that had nothing to do with his QB?

This myth that Teddy Bridgewater was somehow held back by the rest of the 2015 roster needs to be put to rest. He simply wasn't that good with the Vikings. The stats reflect that, the film reflects that and unrealized potential is just that: unrealized. I wish him well in the future but the way he's talked about you would think he had come into Minnesota and played like Dan Marino in his first 2 seasons.

It's painful!

[StumpHunter]

Oh, please. He was fine he just had a coaching staff too shortsighted to use him much in that capacity. He wasn't the smooth receiver Cook is but fans talk about him like he couldn't run a route without stumbling over his shoelaces or pick up a blitz (he was able to do both).

I mean, they preferred Matt Asiata to AP on obvious passing situations. Even Sean Payton couldn't figure out how to use AP in the passing game. It wasn't the coaching, it was AP.

Wallace had #1 WR snaps and was statistically the worst WR on the team...

... and we're supposed to believe that had nothing to do with his QB? Again, please.

When every other receiver on the team has their average year outside of the rookie Diggs, it isn't the QB, it is the receiver.

Wallace wasn't just the worst #1 WR in the NFL, like I said in my post, he was the worst WR on a team with Charles Johnson. He didn't want to be here, and he played like it.

[Mothman]

I mean, they preferred Matt Asiata to AP on obvious passing situations. Even Sean Payton couldn't figure out how to use AP in the passing game. It wasn't the coaching, it was AP.

Look at the other options Payton had. There's a big difference between teams having a back they prefer to use in the passing game and a player being a liability in the passing game. Peterson demonstrated all the way back in 2009 that he could be an effective receiver. I understand that his strengths were as a runner but he wasn't a liability.

As for Wallace... he was clearly frustrated and TB's shortcomings were clearly a source of that frustration. I agree: he had a bad year but it's not because he was a bad "weapon".

[StumpHunter]

I mean, they preferred Matt Asiata to AP on obvious passing situations. Even Sean Payton couldn't figure out how to use AP in the passing game. It wasn't the coaching, it was AP.

Look at the other options Payton had. There's a big difference between teams having a back they prefer to use in the passing game and a player being a liability in the passing game. Peterson demonstrated all the way back in 2009 that he could be an effective receiver. I understand that his strengths were as a runner but he wasn't a liability.

Yes, that 1 year where AP broke 400 yards receiving sure proved he was a not used correctly in the passing game. He has had a 13 year career and broke 300 yards twice in receiving and never had more than 500 yards receiving in a single season. #111 among receiving backs all time.

He wasn't a pass catching back and struggled with his blitz pickups or the Vikings would not have taken him off the field on 3rd down.

As for Wallace... he was clearly frustrated and TB's shortcomings were clearly a source of that frustration. I agree: he had a bad year but it's not because he was a bad "weapon".

https://brickwallblitz.com/2016/06/09/t ... 5-part-13/
Flacco's deep ball stats for 2015: 31-72
Teddy's: 34-76

Hey, but maybe it got better with Mike Wallace's deep ball "skill set"?
Nope, he was much worse in 2016.

27-86 on passes over 15 yards and was ranked 29th in the NFL in accuracy over 15 yards.

So Wallace went to a team with a QB with a worse deep ball, that QB then had a much worse year throwing it deep than Teddy ever had, with Wallace as a receiver.

The myth that Wallace went on to be successful in Baltimore because Flacco can throw it deep is just that, a myth. He had yards because of a bunch of short dump offs and YAC. Why couldn't he have done that here I wonder?

[Mothman]

Yes, that 1 year where AP broke 400 yards receiving sure proved he was a not used correctly in the passing game. He has had a 13 year career and broke 300 yards twice in receiving and never had more than 500 yards receiving in a single season. #111 among receiving backs all time.

Not the point. Again, there's a difference between how coaches choose to use a back and that back's abilities. Nobody's suggesting Peterson excelled as a receiver or pass blocker. I'm simply saying he wasn't a liability.

The myth that Wallace went on to be successful in Baltimore because Flacco can throw it deep is just that, a myth.

I didn't say he was successful in Baltimore because Flacco can throw it deep.

[VikingsVictorious]

Look at the other options Payton had. There's a big difference between teams having a back they prefer to use in the passing game and a player being a liability in the passing game. Peterson demonstrated all the way back in 2009 that he could be an effective receiver. I understand that his strengths were as a runner but he wasn't a liability.

Yes, that 1 year where AP broke 400 yards receiving sure proved he was a not used correctly in the passing game. He has had a 13 year career and broke 300 yards twice in receiving and never had more than 500 yards receiving in a single season. #111 among receiving backs all time.

He wasn't a pass catching back and struggled with his blitz pickups or the Vikings would not have taken him off the field on 3rd down.

As for Wallace... he was clearly frustrated and TB's shortcomings were clearly a source of that frustration. I agree: he had a bad year but it's not because he was a bad "weapon".

https://brickwallblitz.com/2016/06/09/t ... 5-part-13/
Flacco's deep ball stats for 2015: 31-72
Teddy's: 34-76

Hey, but maybe it got better with Mike Wallace's deep ball "skill set"?
Nope, he was much worse in 2016.

27-86 on passes over 15 yards and was ranked 29th in the NFL in accuracy over 15 yards.

So Wallace went to a team with a QB with a worse deep ball, that QB then had a much worse year throwing it deep than Teddy ever had, with Wallace as a receiver.

The myth that Wallace went on to be successful in Baltimore because Flacco can throw it deep is just that, a myth. He had yards because of a bunch of short dump offs and YAC. Why couldn't he have done that here I wonder?

He didn't do that here because of QB play.

[Pondering Her Percy]

AP was a liability in the passing game at that point of his career.

He wasnt a pass catching back at any point of his career but he was also the best RB in the NFL even in 2015. Take it how you'd like.

Wallace had #1 WR snaps and was statistically the worst WR on the team behind Jarius Wright who was a capable #3, and Charles Johnson, who barely played, who both caught for more yards per route run than Wallace.

So Wallace was a consistent 750+ yard WR from 2009-2017, practically his entire career and floated just below or above 1,000 yards 6 of those 9 seasons. But somehow he dips to a 473 yard WR in Minnesota. And we're blaming that on Mike Wallace say HE was the worst WR on the team? He himself called out Teddy for practically sucking. His first year with Flacco and he was over 1,000 again. I dont get why Wallace gets blamed. Wallace wasnt the problem.

He might have had some success running a bunch of short routes in Baltimore, but when he played for the Vikings he was the worst #1 WR in the NFL.

What?? He averaged over 14 yards a catch in Baltimore. Just to put that in perspective, he was averaging right around what Julio Jones was averaging this year. And guys like Mike Thomas and hopkins were averaging around 11 yards. He was the "worst #1" in the league because he didnt have a QB that could stretch the field. I'm not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. Mike Wallace was known for going deep his whole career. Teddy couldnt make it happen. That's not Wallace's fault because he continued to play at a high level even after that. Big Ben, Ryan Tannehill and Joe Flacco all found a way to get him the ball consistently. Teddy Bridgewater could not. Do you believe if Cousins was Wallace's QB, he'd have the same numbers? Not a chance in hell. It wouldnt even be comparable.

Diggs was a great rookie, but he was a rookie and not nearly the same WR he has become.

Like I said, rookie or not, Diggs was still a very good WR that year. He put up 720 yards in 13 games with a below average QB.

Rudy was the very average TE he has been his entire career.

In 2016, Rudy had 83 catches for 840 yards and 7 TDs. How in any way is that average for a tight end?


You're trying to twist this around to help your argument. Bottom line is, these were FAR from "no weapons". You're writing your own narratives for these players where I am providing facts. Teddy had plenty to work with. If you want to talk about a guy that had limited weapons mainly at WR, look at Christian Ponder when he had Michael Jenkins and Jerome Simpson. Or Tarvaris Jackson when he had Robert Ferguson, Bobby Wade and Troy Williamson. THAT is having no weapons. Stefon Diggs as a rookie was 100 times the WR any of those guys ever were. So was Mike Wallace. I might even take Jarius Wright over any of them. Maybe Charles Johnson too? Hell, were there any practice squad guys in 2015 that were better? Teddy had plenty to work with. He just didnt improve as a passer from year 1 to year 2. Simple as that.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I am comparing this year's stats to this year's stats because they are the most relevant.[/qupte]

Again, not what we were discussing. And what we are comparing (2015 vs 2019) is just as relevant because it's the last time Teddy played a full season. You're trying to go off a 5 game sample size and use speculation to win an argument.

If the most relevant stats also help my point, it is because I am right.

and this is where I wish you would learn....

Clearly I, along with the majority of experts were wrong about them being better. We beat them at their place with our QB struggling for most of 4 quarters. We were the better team.

However, weren't you arguing they were not the better team before that game? Then we beat them and that somehow now makes them better than us? That doesn't make any sense.

Nope that's not what I said. This is what I said:

**I’ve been saying the past few days I think we match up better with the saints as well. We tend to struggle with mobile QBs. We’ve given Brees fits before. I’m not sold on their defense either. Plus it’s a good thing being in a dome IMO.We gotta go back to our bread and butter offense tho. I would think cook and mattison are back and we need to utilize them big time. Hopefully Thielen is back up to par. Everyone should be healthy. We can’t sit cousins back in this pocket. Utilize the rollouts and screen game. I like our chances

**And on a side note, we always seem to play better when we’re considered the underdogs and everyone is doubting us which I’m guessing will happen

**The main thing I disagree with is that they are a much better team than we are. I would say they are more consistent than we are. But they are definitely not a “much better” team than we are. Talent for talent it’s awfully close.

I was simply saying I thought we matched up well with them and we play better when we're underdogs.

Much better offensive line
Much better receivers
A RB who helps the passing game and doesn't detract from it
A QB passing out of formations that fit his strengths versus one passing out of formations that fit his RB's (Shotgun versus under center)
A QB in his EIGHTH season versus one in his SECOND.

Thy did throw a similar number of times though, so I guess they are the exact same.

Cousins had better WRs for 9 games out of 15.

Again, Peterson was also the best back in the NFL that year. So maybe Cook helped in the passing game more but from a pure RB standpoint, Peterson was the better back.

A QB passing out of formations that fit his strength? I wish I could find a stat but I can bet money that Cousins was under center just as much or more than Teddy was in 2015. All I did the entire season was complain about being under center so much with Cousins. We were under center quite often this year.

First season or 12th season, Cousins was and still is a better QB than Teddy and I dont think there is any arguing it.

[Pondering Her Percy]

https://brickwallblitz.com/2016/06/09/t ... 5-part-13/
Flacco's deep ball stats for 2015: 31-72
Teddy's: 34-76

Hey, but maybe it got better with Mike Wallace's deep ball "skill set"?
Nope, he was much worse in 2016.

27-86 on passes over 15 yards and was ranked 29th in the NFL in accuracy over 15 yards.

So Wallace went to a team with a QB with a worse deep ball, that QB then had a much worse year throwing it deep than Teddy ever had, with Wallace as a receiver.

The myth that Wallace went on to be successful in Baltimore because Flacco can throw it deep is just that, a myth. He had yards because of a bunch of short dump offs and YAC. Why couldn't he have done that here I wonder?

Again, you have no argument here. Mike Wallace was an impact player from his rookie year until 2017. He succeeded in Miami of all places. 2015 was his ONLY bad year of his career.

That's like Diggs being very good when he was here, heading to Buffalo for 1 year, sucking it up, and going to someone like Philly in 2021 and picking up where he left off when he was in Minnesota. And then someone trying to say Diggs was just bad in Buffalo and it had nothing to do with Josh Allen. It would have everything to do with Josh Allen.

Actually a perfect example and one we all know very well, Randy Moss.

Not saying Wallace is Moss by any means but the point is, Moss was a stud in Minnesota, went to Oakland and nearly ruined his career and then went to NE and broke records. Is anyone going to say Moss was just bad in Oakland and it had nothing to do with Kerry Collins or whatever other Joe Blow they had at QB?? I bet you could say Moss was the "worst #1 in the NFL" in 2006 in Oakland. Does that make any sense to even say that? No.

[StumpHunter]

https://brickwallblitz.com/2016/06/09/t ... 5-part-13/
Flacco's deep ball stats for 2015: 31-72
Teddy's: 34-76

Hey, but maybe it got better with Mike Wallace's deep ball "skill set"?
Nope, he was much worse in 2016.

27-86 on passes over 15 yards and was ranked 29th in the NFL in accuracy over 15 yards.

So Wallace went to a team with a QB with a worse deep ball, that QB then had a much worse year throwing it deep than Teddy ever had, with Wallace as a receiver.

The myth that Wallace went on to be successful in Baltimore because Flacco can throw it deep is just that, a myth. He had yards because of a bunch of short dump offs and YAC. Why couldn't he have done that here I wonder?

Again, you have no argument here. Mike Wallace was an impact player from his rookie year until 2017. He succeeded in Miami of all places. 2015 was his ONLY bad year of his career.

That's like Diggs being very good when he was here, heading to Buffalo for 1 year, sucking it up, and going to someone like Philly in 2021 and picking up where he left off when he was in Minnesota. And then someone trying to say Diggs was just bad in Buffalo and it had nothing to do with Josh Allen. It would have everything to do with Josh Allen.

Actually a perfect example and one we all know very well, Randy Moss.

Not saying Wallace is Moss by any means but the point is, Moss was a stud in Minnesota, went to Oakland and nearly ruined his career and then went to NE and broke records. Is anyone going to say Moss was just bad in Oakland and it had nothing to do with Kerry Collins or whatever other Joe Blow they had at QB?? I bet you could say Moss was the "worst #1 in the NFL" in 2006 in Oakland. Does that make any sense to even say that? No.

Moss clearly wanted out of Oakland. The guy had 200 fewer yards than some guy named Ronald Curry. That is why Oakland dumped him.

[StumpHunter]

I am comparing this year's stats to this year's stats because they are the most relevant.[/qupte]

Again, not what we were discussing. And what we are comparing (2015 vs 2019) is just as relevant because it's the last time Teddy played a full season. You're trying to go off a 5 game sample size and use speculation to win an argument.

If the most relevant stats also help my point, it is because I am right.

and this is where I wish you would learn....

Clearly I, along with the majority of experts were wrong about them being better. We beat them at their place with our QB struggling for most of 4 quarters. We were the better team.

However, weren't you arguing they were not the better team before that game? Then we beat them and that somehow now makes them better than us? That doesn't make any sense.

Nope that's not what I said. This is what I said:

**I’ve been saying the past few days I think we match up better with the saints as well. We tend to struggle with mobile QBs. We’ve given Brees fits before. I’m not sold on their defense either. Plus it’s a good thing being in a dome IMO.We gotta go back to our bread and butter offense tho. I would think cook and mattison are back and we need to utilize them big time. Hopefully Thielen is back up to par. Everyone should be healthy. We can’t sit cousins back in this pocket. Utilize the rollouts and screen game. I like our chances

**And on a side note, we always seem to play better when we’re considered the underdogs and everyone is doubting us which I’m guessing will happen

**The main thing I disagree with is that they are a much better team than we are. I would say they are more consistent than we are. But they are definitely not a “much better” team than we are. Talent for talent it’s awfully close.

I was simply saying I thought we matched up well with them and we play better when we're underdogs.

Much better offensive line
Much better receivers
A RB who helps the passing game and doesn't detract from it
A QB passing out of formations that fit his strengths versus one passing out of formations that fit his RB's (Shotgun versus under center)
A QB in his EIGHTH season versus one in his SECOND.

Thy did throw a similar number of times though, so I guess they are the exact same.

Cousins had better WRs for 9 games out of 15.

Again, Peterson was also the best back in the NFL that year. So maybe Cook helped in the passing game more but from a pure RB standpoint, Peterson was the better back.

A QB passing out of formations that fit his strength? I wish I could find a stat but I can bet money that Cousins was under center just as much or more than Teddy was in 2015. All I did the entire season was complain about being under center so much with Cousins. We were under center quite often this year.

First season or 12th season, Cousins was and still is a better QB than Teddy and I dont think there is any arguing it.

But Cousins wasn't this season. Yards and TDs, Teddy had him. Wins Teddy had him. GWD, Teddy had him.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Again, you have no argument here. Mike Wallace was an impact player from his rookie year until 2017. He succeeded in Miami of all places. 2015 was his ONLY bad year of his career.

That's like Diggs being very good when he was here, heading to Buffalo for 1 year, sucking it up, and going to someone like Philly in 2021 and picking up where he left off when he was in Minnesota. And then someone trying to say Diggs was just bad in Buffalo and it had nothing to do with Josh Allen. It would have everything to do with Josh Allen.

Actually a perfect example and one we all know very well, Randy Moss.

Not saying Wallace is Moss by any means but the point is, Moss was a stud in Minnesota, went to Oakland and nearly ruined his career and then went to NE and broke records. Is anyone going to say Moss was just bad in Oakland and it had nothing to do with Kerry Collins or whatever other Joe Blow they had at QB?? I bet you could say Moss was the "worst #1 in the NFL" in 2006 in Oakland. Does that make any sense to even say that? No.

Moss clearly wanted out of Oakland. The guy had 200 fewer yards than some guy named Ronald Curry. That is why Oakland dumped him.

You’re completely missing the point. What does him wanting out of Oakland have anything to do with anything? The point is, he was elite in Minnesota, disappeared in Oakland mainly in year 2 to the point where some wondered if his career was on a down slide and then absolutely went off in New England and broke records. Why did he struggle in Oakland? Not because he wanted out. Because his quarterbacks were aaron Brooks and Andrew Walters. His YPC was way down compared to normal. Similar to someone like Wallace who had the lowest yards per catch of his career in Minnesota. These are two receivers, not comparing talent levels but comparing skill sets, that were considered two of the best deep threats of their time. And they had a drastic dip in play when they were with below average QBs but somehow had success everywhere else. There was a reason for that. Moss and Wallace didn’t just crap the bed. If you’re a good WR, you’re a good WR but you can’t perform at a high level if your QB isn’t getting you the ball.

If Wallace had the poor year he did in 2015 and then continued poor play on other teams, you’d have an argument because you could easily say he hit his peak and then his career tailed off when he hit his late 20’s/early 30’s. You could claim he was past his prime in Minnesota. The same reason fans were thinking moss could be done in Oakland. But given they still had success on other teams. Quite a bit of success no less, then you have no argument. Wallace wasn’t the problem in the passing game. Teddy was. I just don’t get how anyone can defend a guy that quarterbacked the 31st ranked passing offense?? It literally blows my mind. The amount of excuses and manipulating some go through to make it sound like he was a good QB just baffles me. I don’t think I will ever understand it either.