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S197 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:29 pm How does Cousins "can't beat good teams" record get reflected today? Giants were 2-2. If he beats them, they're 2-3 and it goes in the "bad team, doesn't count" bucket. If he loses, Giants are 3-2 and it goes in "good team, see Kirk can't win" category.

Seems like a heads I win, tails you lose type situation.

I'm not saying there isn't merit that Cousins struggles against good teams and in big games, he CLEARLY does. I'm just curious how meaningful this stat is as it will always favor one narrative. You will always be -1, against every single team you play, because of this paradox. Potentially -2 against division rivals. Sometimes it doesn't matter (if a team is +2 in wins/losses) but for close to .500 teams, it skews it big time.

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:29 pm How does Cousins "can't beat good teams" record get reflected today? Giants were 2-2. If he beats them, they're 2-3 and it goes in the "bad team, doesn't count" bucket. If he loses, Giants are 3-2 and it goes in "good team, see Kirk can't win" category.

Seems like a heads I win, tails you lose type situation.

I'm not saying there isn't merit that Cousins struggles against good teams and in big games, he CLEARLY does. I'm just curious how meaningful this stat is as it will always favor one narrative. You will always be -1, against every single team you play, because of this paradox. Potentially -2 against division rivals. Sometimes it doesn't matter (if a team is +2 in wins/losses) but for close to .500 teams, it skews it big time.

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:29 pm How does Cousins "can't beat good teams" record get reflected today? Giants were 2-2. If he beats them, they're 2-3 and it goes in the "bad team, doesn't count" bucket. If he loses, Giants are 3-2 and it goes in "good team, see Kirk can't win" category.

Seems like a heads I win, tails you lose type situation.

I'm not saying there isn't merit that Cousins struggles against good teams and in big games, he CLEARLY does. I'm just curious how meaningful this stat is as it will always favor one narrative. You will always be -1, against every single team you play, because of this paradox. Potentially -2 against division rivals. Sometimes it doesn't matter (if a team is +2 in wins/losses) but for close to .500 teams, it skews it big time.

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:56 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:29 pm How does Cousins "can't beat good teams" record get reflected today? Giants were 2-2. If he beats them, they're 2-3 and it goes in the "bad team, doesn't count" bucket. If he loses, Giants are 3-2 and it goes in "good team, see Kirk can't win" category.

Seems like a heads I win, tails you lose type situation.

I'm not saying there isn't merit that Cousins struggles against good teams and in big games, he CLEARLY does. I'm just curious how meaningful this stat is as it will always favor one narrative. You will always be -1, against every single team you play, because of this paradox. Potentially -2 against division rivals. Sometimes it doesn't matter (if a team is +2 in wins/losses) but for close to .500 teams, it skews it big time.

It's determined by the teams record at the end of the season. If the Giants end the years 9-7 they are a "winning team".

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:01 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:56 pm

It's determined by the teams record at the end of the season. If the Giants end the years 9-7 they are a "winning team".

Yeah I think the stat is bogus because last year cousins beat the eagles but at the time they weren’t a “winning team” yet they made the playoffs and beat the bears. But that doesn’t count on cousins “good team” side of the record. I pay little attention to it

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:01 pm

Yeah I think the stat is bogus because last year cousins beat the eagles but at the time they weren’t a “winning team” yet they made the playoffs and beat the bears. But that doesn’t count on cousins “good team” side of the record. I pay little attention to it

If they didn't end the year with a winning record you consider them good? Or lucky to make the playoffs?

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:16 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:08 pm

If they didn't end the year with a winning record you consider them good? Or lucky to make the playoffs?

The eagles had a winning record and made the playoffs last year. But when cousins beat them they didn’t have a winning record so it doesn’t count as a “good team” win for him. That’s why I think the stat is bogus. I can’t imagine how many 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, etc teams he’s played and beat and they finished the year with a winning record but it didn’t count as a “win” for him in that category. It’s just a meaningless stat IMO. They make it look way worse than it probably is. It’s definitely not good, but it’s much better than 5 wins I guarantee it. Rodgers is 17-26 all time vs winning teams. But who knows how that’s calculated since he’s looked at as a god

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:56 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:29 pm How does Cousins "can't beat good teams" record get reflected today? Giants were 2-2. If he beats them, they're 2-3 and it goes in the "bad team, doesn't count" bucket. If he loses, Giants are 3-2 and it goes in "good team, see Kirk can't win" category.

Seems like a heads I win, tails you lose type situation.

I'm not saying there isn't merit that Cousins struggles against good teams and in big games, he CLEARLY does. I'm just curious how meaningful this stat is as it will always favor one narrative. You will always be -1, against every single team you play, because of this paradox. Potentially -2 against division rivals. Sometimes it doesn't matter (if a team is +2 in wins/losses) but for close to .500 teams, it skews it big time.

It's determined by the teams record at the end of the season. If the Giants end the years 9-7 they are a "winning team".

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:26 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:56 pm

It's determined by the teams record at the end of the season. If the Giants end the years 9-7 they are a "winning team".

Even if that’s the case, it’s a skewed stat because of what I mentioned. Think of it this way, if the season were 1 game long, that stat gives Kirk no scenario where he comes out on top. Essentially he will always be playing by 1 game behind because the teams used in the analysis hurt the “positive” Kirk narrative regardless of that game’s outcome.

Again, not saying it’s a stat without merit, just that it’s set up to be inherently unfair.

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:32 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:26 pm

Even if that’s the case, it’s a skewed stat because of what I mentioned. Think of it this way, if the season were 1 game long, that stat gives Kirk no scenario where he comes out on top. Essentially he will always be playing by 1 game behind because the teams used in the analysis hurt the “positive” Kirk narrative regardless of that game’s outcome.

Again, not saying it’s a stat without merit, just that it’s set up to be inherently unfair.

Yeah, in the end it's a stat like any other. Draw your own conclusions and all that. It's not the entire story. Doesn't bode well tho.

Everyone's heard a billion times by now that Kirk Cousins has a 5-25 record against teams with a season winning record. What does that actually mean, though? Wouldn't you expect all QB's to have poorer records against good teams? How do other QB's stack up? Let's find out!

I used Pro-Football-Reference's Team Game Finder to find team records against teams with a winning season (end-of-season record), and then matched those games up with games that individual QB's started. I picked about a dozen or so QB's that have been regular starters and have been in the league since at least 2015 but not further back than 2008. I'll be honest and say that laziness played a big part in what QB's I picked. No one before 2008, no sporadic starters, and no one who jumped around teams a lot because it takes more effort to get those stats.

So, here's the stats: QB record and win%, overall and vs. winning/nonwinning teams, sorted by the difference between QB's win% vs winning and nonwinning teams.

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:48 pm https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/a ... =post_body

Everyone's heard a billion times by now that Kirk Cousins has a 5-25 record against teams with a season winning record. What does that actually mean, though? Wouldn't you expect all QB's to have poorer records against good teams? How do other QB's stack up? Let's find out!

I used Pro-Football-Reference's Team Game Finder to find team records against teams with a winning season (end-of-season record), and then matched those games up with games that individual QB's started. I picked about a dozen or so QB's that have been regular starters and have been in the league since at least 2015 but not further back than 2008. I'll be honest and say that laziness played a big part in what QB's I picked. No one before 2008, no sporadic starters, and no one who jumped around teams a lot because it takes more effort to get those stats.

So, here's the stats: QB record and win%, overall and vs. winning/nonwinning teams, sorted by the difference between QB's win% vs winning and nonwinning teams.

Posters takeaway notes:

Cousins is rightly criticized for his record vs. winning teams. The combination of his record vs. winning teams and the discrepancy in between his record vs. winning and non-winning teams is incredible (both are second only to Stafford).

Holy s*** Matt Stafford. Lol.