Vikings @ Lions

[Cliff]

Looks like another ugly loss which means it'll be a close game that the Vikings lose in the last few minutes. It's all about watching how JJM does from my perspective. It's too early in the season to officially "give up" but the offense will have to seriously improve under JJM for the team to have a chance. It's really unfortunate that the Vikings have so many issues with the offensive line considering how much they have invested in it. Three of the top five highest paid players on the team are offensive line and there's a 1st rounder on there. Maybe if they can all stay healthy and play together a while that will change.

The defense is built on getting pressure to the QB and Goff gets the ball away quickly which means coverage has to step up. I don't think they can. They've proven all year they can't stop the run either.

The offense is going to have to out duel the Lions if there is any hope in winning. Otherwise it'll be ugly.

[VikingLord]

I don't see how this game ends up close, but I'd like to be surprised.

When McCarthy was out there before he couldn't move the offense against worse defenses save that 4th quarter burst against the Bears. The Lions defense is much better than the Bear defense and they're going to come after him all game. I could see the Vikings offense struggling to crack 150 yards total for the game. I'll also be cringing every time McCarthy takes a hit now, which is probably going to be early and often in this one.

The Lions offense is so much better than the last two offenses the Vikings "defense" has faced, both of which torched them in different ways. The Lions run game is very effective, with Gibbs a legit threat to go the distance on any given run, and he can catch it out of the backfield as well. The Lions can pass it equally effectively.

If there were a game on the schedule that I think is most likely to be a true blowout, this is the game. I could see the Lions easily putting up 50+ on this defense, especially given how anemic I expect the Vikings offense to be with McCarthy returning. I'd say it's very likely the Lions end up with at least one defensive score in this game off an INT or fumble by the QB. I don't know what the line will be on this game but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Lions are favored by 2 TDs, which just indicates how bad this year's Vikings have become.

[psjordan]

This team is not competitive. Period. And IMO this is 100% tied to our horrid, abysmal drafting record the past several years.

You simply cannot whiff on your entire draft class year after year after year and expect to be competitive three years down the road.

[CharVike]

The best thing about this game for me it's played Sunday at 1:00 est. We've played in every possible country,day and time slot so far. KOC is riding a 5 game losing streak against the Lions and I think he stretches that to 6. Looks like a blowout loss and I think that will hold true. I expect the Lions to put up over 30 and I don't see us getting beyond 24 and IMO that's the high mark. My main concern is we are getting beat at the point on both sides of the ball. It's hard to get anything going when that happens. Our D isn't much of a factor and we don't get many turnovers. Our offense looks like a ragtag group and currently I can't even say what we are good at. JJM is back in the lineup and perhaps he will provide some type of spark. Brosmer is the backup and it looks like they don't want to put him in. If we get into a heavy pass mode I expect JJM to take a beating like he did against the Falcons. If it becomes a blowout I hope they give Brosmer some action. I'd prefer they give both players some action regardless of score. Do something to provide a little excitement beyond the normal plug, play and hope scenario. Of course that won't happen. I see Lions 34-17 in a yawn-fest.

[CharVike]

This team is not competitive. Period. And IMO this is 100% tied to our horrid, abysmal drafting record the past several years.

You simply cannot whiff on your entire draft class year after year after year and expect to be competitive three years down the road.

Throw in the fact that it appears we have missed this year in the FA market certainly isn't helping. Hiring Ryan Grigson as an assistant GM is another puzzle. That is why I cringed when they gave KAM an extension. There was no reason for that.

[Cliff]

This team is not competitive. Period. And IMO this is 100% tied to our horrid, abysmal drafting record the past several years.

You simply cannot whiff on your entire draft class year after year after year and expect to be competitive three years down the road.

I'm still holding out a little hope.

No team in the NFL was going to be competitive with Wentz as their starting quarterback. He was never meant to be. Certainly they have other problems, but none was (possibly still is) as big as quarterback. Just because of the fact that the team is supposed to be steered by their offense. If JJM continues to be injured or is terrible for some other reason the team will continue to not be competitive. If he starts to put it together, however, this team could actually be really good.

[psjordan]

This team is not competitive. Period. And IMO this is 100% tied to our horrid, abysmal drafting record the past several years.

You simply cannot whiff on your entire draft class year after year after year and expect to be competitive three years down the road.

I'm still holding out a little hope.

No team in the NFL was going to be competitive with Wentz as their starting quarterback. He was never meant to be. Certainly they have other problems, but none was (possibly still is) as big as quarterback. Just because of the fact that the team is supposed to be steered by their offense. If JJM continues to be injured or is terrible for some other reason the team will continue to not be competitive. If he starts to put it together, however, this team could actually be really good.

I do appreciate your optimism. But what really depresses me is looking around the league and seeing 3rd, 4th, 5th round young OL kicking butts out there. IND let their OL injury-prone vets walk (to us of course!) and have unknown, unheralded youngsters being coached into what might be the best OL in football. And for all who think "look how Daniel Jones is doing, we should have kept him" - well, there is no way our OL is anywhere near as good as INDY's. Jones would be suffering with our OL.

And I do not want to hear the "yeah but injury" mantra. IND saw the injury prone on their team and let them walk, knowing they could develop the kids they had drafted. We can't develop freaking Ramen noodles on our OL, much less decent young OL players.

Point is we whiffed on pretty much all the rest of KAM's picks and draft-day trades.

Therefore KAM is perennially dipping into the FA pool. And we always seem to pick those with injury history, magically thinking they'll be healthy with a team that seems to ALWAYS have injury problems. I'd give KAM's FA forays a "mixed results" grade.

IMO it's the draft whiffs that are killing us*. Yes, whiffing on 1-2's Cine, Booth, Ingram and Turner** hurts (kudos for the Addison pick, even with his off field issues. And I like Jackson). But the only mid-late-rounders we've really hit on in the KAM years are Reichard and maybe Nailor. I know people like the Jurgens and LDR picks but they've not proven anything yet.

Beyond the 1st and 2nd rounders, at some point a good-or-above team HAS to hit on 3rd-7th rd picks. HAS TO.

* I'm more than willing to listen to any logical argument that says KAM's picks were OK, but we have suboptimal position coaches who fail to develop players that are developable. Certainly Bradbury is holding his own in NE.

** So far. But my Bust Meter is peaking on the high side right now.

[VikingLord]

If JJM continues to be injured or is terrible for some other reason the team will continue to not be competitive. If he starts to put it together, however, this team could actually be really good.

The problem I have with the "JJM needs time to develop" arguments isn't even really about JJM himself - its about KOC and the other decisions that were made that impacted the QB position this year and, by extension, the ability of a team that went 14-3 the year before to remain competitive this year. When the head coach and GM of said 14-3 team tell everyone that they're all-in on JJM after what Sam Darnold did the year before, that they're OK with Daniel Jones leaving in FA because they've got their franchise QB already on the roster, said franchise QB had better be ready-to-go. Not "give him time to mature" ready-to-go, but actually ready-to-go. Because if he's not ready yet and he's got to go through a development cycle or two before he's ready, #1 you don't let your already-on-the-team vet options that are ready leave in free agency, and #2 you don't let the owners spend massive sums in free agency in an effort to remain immediately competitive.

Something doesn't smell right in Denmark with all of this. KOC told everyone who would listen that McCarthy was ready, and franchise-altering decisions were made based on those assurances. He treated JJM as if he were ready based on the offseason and preseason. And now it appears JJM is far from ready based on what we've seen so far.

Here's hoping McCarthy settles in against the Lions and helps us understand what KAM and KOC have been selling everyone thus far. If that doesn't become clear soon, if I were the Wilfs I would have some hard questions for both of them by the end of this season.

[Tark]

Not happening against the Lion’s defense. Kevin O Clueless should be fired.Detroit 34, Vikings 10.

[Cliff]

The problem I have with the "JJM needs time to develop" arguments isn't even really about JJM himself - its about KOC and the other decisions that were made that impacted the QB position this year and, by extension, the ability of a team that went 14-3 the year before to remain competitive this year. When the head coach and GM of said 14-3 team tell everyone that they're all-in on JJM after what Sam Darnold did the year before, that they're OK with Daniel Jones leaving in FA because they've got their franchise QB already on the roster, said franchise QB had better be ready-to-go. Not "give him time to mature" ready-to-go, but actually ready-to-go. Because if he's not ready yet and he's got to go through a development cycle or two before he's ready, #1 you don't let your already-on-the-team vet options that are ready leave in free agency, and #2 you don't let the owners spend massive sums in free agency in an effort to remain immediately competitive.

For Darnold there were pretty split opinions. Many didn't want to pay him the 100m contract that he got from Seattle. Especially after how that 14-3 season ended. I don't know all of the ins and outs for the Daniel Jones situation but I thought he wanted to start and went to the team with the best odds of doing so.

Something doesn't smell right in Denmark with all of this. KOC told everyone who would listen that McCarthy was ready, and franchise-altering decisions were made based on those assurances. He treated JJM as if he were ready based on the offseason and preseason. And now it appears JJM is far from ready based on what we've seen so far.

KOC told everyone he was ready and then he started him. He has now played two games, one of which he won NFC offensive player of the week. I don't care if he did it in one of the quarters or spread it out over all 4. Otherwise he has been injured. The guy hasn't had an opportunity to prove anything one way or another.

Here's hoping McCarthy settles in against the Lions and helps us understand what KAM and KOC have been selling everyone thus far. If that doesn't become clear soon, if I were the Wilfs I would have some hard questions for both of them by the end of this season.

What he was "selling everyone thus far" is a team led by JJM. Instead what we've had is a team led by Wentz.

I just hope he can stay healthy. His biggest problem so far is that he can't actually stay on the field. It doesn't matter if he had played perfectly both of his games and was the best QB we had ever seen. If he can't stay on the field he may as well be terrible.

I'm sure had the team known he was going to be injured in week 2 and then miss 6 games they would have made different decisions about how they approached quarterback. Maybe they go ahead and pay Darnold the 100m. Maybe they try harder to keep Jones. They made decisions assuming JJM was going to actually be playing.

[VikingLord]

What he was "selling everyone thus far" is a team led by JJM. Instead what we've had is a team led by Wentz.

That's not how I see it. He sold JJM as ready to go. He played JJM as ready to go in the preseason. He banked the team's fortunes on JJM as ready to go.

JJM is not ready to go. Not even close judging by what we've seen so far.

I'm sure had the team known he was going to be injured in week 2 and then miss 6 games they would have made different decisions about how they approached quarterback. Maybe they go ahead and pay Darnold the 100m. Maybe they try harder to keep Jones. They made decisions assuming JJM was going to actually be playing.

The excuses for JJM are getting a little tiring. He can either objectively play the position or he can't. He can either read the field and make the throws accurately and on time or he can't. He's either well prepared and knows what to do with the football (which includes protecting it) or he isn't. KOC should have a pretty good idea of what McCarthy is, especially given how convincingly he has sold him as ready to take over.

I'm sure the Lions are going to be all over McCarthy in this upcoming game and we'll get more excuses for him if he struggles again. I suspect if McCarthy actually stays healthy the rest of this year it will be like that. We'll all be hoping to see that single quarter of semi-decent play while we spend most of the games watching McCarthy sail the ball over, behind, too far in front, short, or not throw it at all.

[VikingLord]

Not happening against the Lion’s defense. Kevin O Clueless should be fired.Detroit 34, Vikings 10.

I think there is a good chance the Lions put up 50+ against this defense.

[Cliff]

That's not how I see it. He sold JJM as ready to go. He played JJM as ready to go in the preseason. He banked the team's fortunes on JJM as ready to go.

JJM is not ready to go. Not even close judging by what we've seen so far.

And that's fine, we can agree to disagree. I personally don't think we can possibly know if he's ready to go or not after 2 games with the strongest pieces of the offensive line and Jordan Addison being out. I know he played well enough to be offensive player of the week in one of his two games. I'm not buying the "but for 3 of the quarters ..." argument. Games are 4 quarters. If he had played well for 3 quarters of that game and then threw 3 pick sixes in the 4th quarter instead of 3 touchdowns we wouldn't be talking about how well he did in the first three quarters. We would all agree he sucked that game.

He's got to start sometime. I don't think any QB is completely ready their first season as starter and it's unrealistic to expect that. If you were wanting KOC to wait until he was a completely finished product before he started you'd be waiting forever.

The excuses for JJM are getting a little tiring. He can either objectively play the position or he can't. He can either read the field and make the throws accurately and on time or he can't. He's either well prepared and knows what to do with the football (which includes protecting it) or he isn't. KOC should have a pretty good idea of what McCarthy is, especially given how convincingly he has sold him as ready to take over.

I don't really have any excuses for him. To me he's still a mystery. I expect him to still make "rookie" type mistakes in his first season, no question. I don't see that as him "not being ready", I see that as the normal process a first time starting QB has.

If you've decided you can make a judgement on him after 2 games with various important pieces of the offense missing that's ok. We're just not on the same page.

I'm sure the Lions are going to be all over McCarthy in this upcoming game and we'll get more excuses for him if he struggles again. I suspect if McCarthy actually stays healthy the rest of this year it will be like that. We'll all be hoping to see that single quarter of semi-decent play while we spend most of the games watching McCarthy sail the ball over, behind, too far in front, short, or not throw it at all.

Personally I just want to see progression. Do I expect his 3rd game ever coming off an injury against one of the best teams in the league to be great? No. But I would like to see progress. I would like to see more of that one quarter of way-better-than-semi-decent-play out of him.

We'll see. At this point it wouldn't take much for him to be labeled a bust. If he can't stay healthy the rest of the season that would be one big measure. If he stays healthy but is terrible that's another. In either of those scenarios they need to be prepared next season with a better QB than Carson Wentz at backup. Or starter.

[kidcrash]

KOC cannot abandon the run and call long developing plays in this game. Dink and dunk short passing game and RUN THE BALL

It's the only chance they have to keep it close and save JJ from getting killed. so far I have not seen this from KOC as the Vikings coach.

[Alaskan]

KOC cannot abandon the run and call long developing plays in this game. Dink and dunk short passing game and RUN THE BALL

It's the only chance they have to keep it close and save JJ from getting killed. so far I have not seen this from KOC as the Vikings coach.

THIS!!!!

The Vikings have the fewest rushing attempts in the league this year. KOC and staff have shown total incompetence in developing a running game. And this isn’t the first year it’s been this way. By now this is who KOC is. This season , with the turnstile on the offensive line, a developing young QB in a McCarthy and then a QB in Wentz who is a low level back up at best how can it be we have almost totally abandoned the run? This team will never be a true contender unless this changes, no matter what happens with McCarthy. I have zero confidence this will change under KOC.