Vikings @ Chargers

[makila]

They've definitely created an environment where I don't know if they have a clear path. Brosmer absolutely should have been in the game after halftime. Simply because it could have given some sort of insight as to how much of it was Wentz's indecisiveness (Brosmer appears to be a quick decision maker with the ball), vs the offensive scheme, vs the offensive line. Also, maybe they have something in Brosmer. I doubt it, but you won't freaking know unless they take some snaps.

That actually underscores another thing about the way KOC treated McCarthy during the preseason. I think McCarthy played one series (or was it two) in the first preseason game and that was it. KOC treated McCarthy more like he was an established vet like Rodgers than a rookie QB who needed all the reps he could get.

He then proceeded to trot Howell out for long stretches of those games. Granted, Brosmer got in there for long stretches too but between Howell and Brosmer, KOC needed a lot more information on Brosmer than he did on Howell. The fact they ended up shipping Howell before the season even started made that worse. It should have been McCarthy playing the first half of each preseason game at a minimum with Brosmer getting the majority of the relief work so KOC could make the preseason playing time as valuable to himself and the team as he could. Instead, he protected McCarthy (from what, I don't know) and then wasted substantial reps on a vet backup that he already should have known plenty about.

I just don't know what KOC is doing here. He and KAM made some really questionable decisions over the offseason when it came to making sure they were able to start the best QB they could, and then KOC compounded the impact of those decisions by not just annointing McCarthy as the starting QB, but treating him like he'd already earned something, and then not doing all he could to also learn about what he had in Brosmer, who he chose to be the 3rd string QB but now apparently doesn't trust enough to put him on the field for meaningful snaps.

If I were KOC at this point I would enlist the guidance of some non-invested people I trust to help guide further decisions related to the QB position. He needs some perspective in my opinion.

I think there needs to be a lot more earned vs given with KOC. He's showing a trend of giving people spots, that they didn't have to earn in camp or pre-season battles. It's happened on the o-line a lot too. It traces back to his stubbornness, and smartest guy in the room traits, I think.

[psjordan]

Well my "take with no facts to back it up" is that it's very likely KOC, Phillips and Wentz talked about all this before and during the game. I'm sure they discussed the overall situation - we have the "QB of the future" not 100% and we have an undrafted rookie. We'd love to give McCarthy another 10 days to heal. Hey Carson, even if this gets ugly you're going to have to take one for the team. I could see everyone agreeing he'd stick it out, and Wentz seems like the kind of guy that would be on board with that thought process.

No way KOC wants to trot Brosmer out there. That tells all the other vets that hey, this game is not winnable and we're going to try an experiment. That would not go over well. Maybe, just maybe Brosmer goes out there and lights it up - then what? What happens then? On the other hand, maybe Brosmer throws three pick-6's? Think the OL wants to keep trotting out there after we commit another penalty on the ensuing kickoff and we have three successive drives starting at our 11?

It's all a mess, and in large part is the doing of KAM and KOC. WE ARE NEVER READY TO PLAY A FREAKING GAME. That is ALL on the coaches.

Heck, we can't even jog onto the field correctly! Now we give the refs concussions by accident.

As for McCarthy and what's next, Drew Brees stated this past weekend that he felt a young QB needs FIFTY! games in the NFL to know what the heck he's doing. In today's game that seems excessive, but still. McCarthy needs at least 20 games under his belt before a true report card can result. Which without his injury woes, he might be close to now. More frustration for us fans waiting to see what he can do.

As for Turner [heavy sigh], I am sure everyone involved in his acquisition is cringing non-stop at his play. He's a bust in relation to his cost to acquire, I'm calling it right here right now. Not that he can't play, but he's barely above mediocre on his BEST plays. There was even one Herbert scramble where Turner couldn't even CATCH him, much less tackle him.

DET is not only playing well, they're playing nasty. Should be fun to see how many more ways this Vikes team can collapse. Pretty sure we have the penalty advantage already locked down before the opening whistle.

[CharVike]

That actually underscores another thing about the way KOC treated McCarthy during the preseason. I think McCarthy played one series (or was it two) in the first preseason game and that was it. KOC treated McCarthy more like he was an established vet like Rodgers than a rookie QB who needed all the reps he could get.

He then proceeded to trot Howell out for long stretches of those games. Granted, Brosmer got in there for long stretches too but between Howell and Brosmer, KOC needed a lot more information on Brosmer than he did on Howell. The fact they ended up shipping Howell before the season even started made that worse. It should have been McCarthy playing the first half of each preseason game at a minimum with Brosmer getting the majority of the relief work so KOC could make the preseason playing time as valuable to himself and the team as he could. Instead, he protected McCarthy (from what, I don't know) and then wasted substantial reps on a vet backup that he already should have known plenty about.

I just don't know what KOC is doing here. He and KAM made some really questionable decisions over the offseason when it came to making sure they were able to start the best QB they could, and then KOC compounded the impact of those decisions by not just annointing McCarthy as the starting QB, but treating him like he'd already earned something, and then not doing all he could to also learn about what he had in Brosmer, who he chose to be the 3rd string QB but now apparently doesn't trust enough to put him on the field for meaningful snaps.

If I were KOC at this point I would enlist the guidance of some non-invested people I trust to help guide further decisions related to the QB position. He needs some perspective in my opinion.

I think there needs to be a lot more earned vs given with KOC. He's showing a trend of giving people spots, that they didn't have to earn in camp or pre-season battles. It's happened on the o-line a lot too. It traces back to his stubbornness, and smartest guy in the room traits, I think.

Josh Mccown was added as QB coach last year so I assume he is providing some input/information. Giving spots with no camp battle is wrong. Ingram was that. Even cutting Bradbury was wrong. Redo the contract and keep him in case Kelly gets hurt.

[cogitator]

How long does JJM get before it's reasonable to say what he is as a pro QB? How long should KOC stick with him if he's not showing improvement? He's already lost his rookie season and a big chunk of this season in terms of both development and evaluation.

That's the million dollar question. There doesn't seem to be one model for how quickly a quarterback develops. You have the examples of Darnold, Mayfield, Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, all looking like complete busts and then turning into effective quarterbacks. And you have Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels looking like they get it very quickly. Then CJ Stroud looking very good his rookie year and regressing in his second and third years. So tough to know when to make the call on a young qb.

Clearly he gets at least this year, and if he isn't a complete disaster then next year too, or at least well into next year. I think a low completion percentage and a higher interception rate than the league average would be red flags. I suppose even with those if you see positive improvement throughout the year you'd stick it out with him for another year. This injury thing is starting to be a little concerning, and their stance of not playing him unless he's 100 percent is starting to look overly cautious, they need to see him in as many games as possible.

(if he's a flop, this Ty Simpson kid at Alabama is looking like a really good prospect)