Week 7 Vs. Eagles

[VikingLord]

The kid has 2 games as a starting QB in the NFL. No excuses. That’s just a fact. It’s gonna take some time. Every indication is that the coaches believe in him and his teammates believe in him. It’s time for fans to have some realistic expectations! Give the kid a chance!

What are your expectations for him? How much time should he be given to meet them? Let's say the Vikings regress to the offensive performance we saw in those first two games. The offense can't stay on the field or score. McCarthy is holding the ball too long, taking bad sacks, misfiring passes, turning the ball over. How many games should he get before a change is made? The team is 3-2 as of right now. They've climbed out of the cellar of the offensive rankings. Wentz and the retooled offensive line have shown they can adjust and remain effective even if it hasn't been pretty.

I'm not saying McCarthy shouldn't get a chance. He should and he will. But the early returns have not been encouraging. Should that continue, where would you draw the line? Are you OK with KOC sacrificing the entire season in the pursuit of proving McCarthy can be a franchise QB?

[VikingLord]

I never thought the Giants would destroy the Eagles like that. Expect the unexpected fits that beat down. I guess stop their ground game and you have a good chance to win.

Which is terrible news for the Vikings that can't seem to stop any run game. Gonna get a pissed off Eagles team next week.

I watched them when they played the Bucs and they literally got away with blatant holding on multiple pass attempts. It was so obvious that I believe the NFL ended up suspending one or more of the refs that worked that game. The Bucs were complaining about it too.

And now the Giants just ran over them. Not sure the Vikings can duplicate that but the Eagles defense is a shell of what it was last year, at least so far.

It might actually be good that McCarthy will start. Opposing QBs in particular have posed a real challenge for the Eagles defense when those QBs get out of the pocket and use their legs. McCarthy is a lot more likely to do that than Wentz.

[Cliff]

The kid has 2 games as a starting QB in the NFL. No excuses. That’s just a fact. It’s gonna take some time. Every indication is that the coaches believe in him and his teammates believe in him. It’s time for fans to have some realistic expectations! Give the kid a chance!

What are your expectations for him? How much time should he be given to meet them? Let's say the Vikings regress to the offensive performance we saw in those first two games. The offense can't stay on the field or score. McCarthy is holding the ball too long, taking bad sacks, misfiring passes, turning the ball over. How many games should he get before a change is made? The team is 3-2 as of right now. They've climbed out of the cellar of the offensive rankings. Wentz and the retooled offensive line have shown they can adjust and remain effective even if it hasn't been pretty.

I'm not saying McCarthy shouldn't get a chance. He should and he will. But the early returns have not been encouraging. Should that continue, where would you draw the line? Are you OK with KOC sacrificing the entire season in the pursuit of proving McCarthy can be a franchise QB?

The first two games were up and down and given it's his first year starting I would expect that to happen more. Certainly in week 1 the offense had problems and JJM did too, but by the time the game was over he had 3 TDs and was the NFL offensive player of the week. Ideally he wouldn't wait until the 4th quarter every week to do that, but week 1 isn't a great example of an argument against him.

When it comes to holding the ball too long, I've seen Wentz do it quite a bit too but it comes down to the offensive line. If they can hold up like they did for Wentz but JJM still has problems then I wouldn't wait very long to bench him. If the offensive line is as terrible as it was for his first two games then it's difficult to judge.

At the end of the day, Wentz is a 32 year old QB on a 1 year contract. If they weren't willing to hang onto Darnold after the season he had they certainly won't be hanging onto Wentz. JJM at least has the chance to become the QB of the future. He needs to be given plenty of opportunity to succeed. He's a 23 year QB in his first year starting, there will be growing pains. If he's just so terrible he's a complete detriment to the team every week then sure, bench him and let him learn more. Through his first two games though we really have no idea. He's shown glimpses of garbage and glimpses of greatness and glimpses of averageness. We need more data.

[VikingLord]

Through his first two games though we really have no idea. He's shown glimpses of garbage and glimpses of greatness and glimpses of averageness. We need more data.

I think you're being pretty generous. Of those 8 quarters played he had one where he performed. We do have some idea.

We also need more data, but at what point would you call it? They're 3-2 right now. Let's say the defense continues to improve over the next several games but the offense goes back in the tank and they start losing, and McCarthy is objectively a big reason why. When does KOC have to decide he's seen enough? When the record is 3-6? Does it require more losses than that? More missed throws? More turnovers?

Unfortunately for everyone involved, there are a lot of people beyond McCarthy whose livelihoods depend in great part on how the QB performs week-in and week-out, and McCarthy is a pro QB now. If he isn't getting the job done there should come a point where KOC has to try to salvage the season even if it costs him the chance to develop his protege of choice. It would be beyond irresponsible for him not to do that. As much as everyone on the team wants to rally behind McCarthy, if the losses start to add up that will change, and KOC would risk losing the team's support which would be a disaster.

I personally hope McCarthy gets it figured out and starts to succeed. He's in an almost ideal situation to do so. I'm like every other Vikings fan who wants them to find that young QB who they can build around that will make them Superbowl contenders on a yearly basis for a long time. Other teams that drafted QBs the year McCarthy was drafted have been having a lot of success with their picks and its natural to want to believe the Vikings can get similar results with McCarthy, especially since it is the Vikings that have the QB Whisperer at head coach. But I'm just frankly underwhelmed by what I've seen thus far. McCarthy has looked unprepared, inaccurate and ineffective. Wentz is nothing to write home about either, but I do feel he gives the Vikings offense a chance when he's out there. When McCarthy was under center I was honestly more surprised to see them get a 1st down and amazed when they scored. I hope he can change that.

[Thaumaturgist]

Through his first two games though we really have no idea. He's shown glimpses of garbage and glimpses of greatness and glimpses of averageness. We need more data.

I think you're being pretty generous. Of those 8 quarters played he had one where he performed. We do have some idea.

We also need more data, but at what point would you call it? They're 3-2 right now. Let's say the defense continues to improve over the next several games but the offense goes back in the tank and they start losing, and McCarthy is objectively a big reason why. When does KOC have to decide he's seen enough? When the record is 3-6? Does it require more losses than that? More missed throws? More turnovers?

Unfortunately for everyone involved, there are a lot of people beyond McCarthy whose livelihoods depend in great part on how the QB performs week-in and week-out, and McCarthy is a pro QB now. If he isn't getting the job done there should come a point where KOC has to try to salvage the season even if it costs him the chance to develop his protege of choice. It would be beyond irresponsible for him not to do that. As much as everyone on the team wants to rally behind McCarthy, if the losses start to add up that will change, and KOC would risk losing the team's support which would be a disaster.

I personally hope McCarthy gets it figured out and starts to succeed. He's in an almost ideal situation to do so. I'm like every other Vikings fan who wants them to find that young QB who they can build around that will make them Superbowl contenders on a yearly basis for a long time. Other teams that drafted QBs the year McCarthy was drafted have been having a lot of success with their picks and its natural to want to believe the Vikings can get similar results with McCarthy, especially since it is the Vikings that have the QB Whisperer at head coach. But I'm just frankly underwhelmed by what I've seen thus far. McCarthy has looked unprepared, inaccurate and ineffective. Wentz is nothing to write home about either, but I do feel he gives the Vikings offense a chance when he's out there. When McCarthy was under center I was honestly more surprised to see them get a 1st down and amazed when they scored. I hope he can change that.

I feel like your expectations of a QB who essentially has very few game reps (41 attempts is his official stat line) is unreasonable. Do I think he should have been playing in the pre-season? You betcha! That IMHO is not his fault however.

[CharVike]

Which is terrible news for the Vikings that can't seem to stop any run game. Gonna get a pissed off Eagles team next week.

I watched them when they played the Bucs and they literally got away with blatant holding on multiple pass attempts. It was so obvious that I believe the NFL ended up suspending one or more of the refs that worked that game. The Bucs were complaining about it too.

And now the Giants just ran over them. Not sure the Vikings can duplicate that but the Eagles defense is a shell of what it was last year, at least so far.

It might actually be good that McCarthy will start. Opposing QBs in particular have posed a real challenge for the Eagles defense when those QBs get out of the pocket and use their legs. McCarthy is a lot more likely to do that than Wentz.

I had the same thought. JJM can provide that take off and run ability that has given the Eagles fits. It also limits the ability of a defense to take off on a full out pass rush because it can leave holes in the D. The Eagles D hasn't been that good so far. Maybe that has to do with the Eagles lack of ground game.

[Alaskan]

The kid has 2 games as a starting QB in the NFL. No excuses. That’s just a fact. It’s gonna take some time. Every indication is that the coaches believe in him and his teammates believe in him. It’s time for fans to have some realistic expectations! Give the kid a chance!

What are your expectations for him? How much time should he be given to meet them? Let's say the Vikings regress to the offensive performance we saw in those first two games. The offense can't stay on the field or score. McCarthy is holding the ball too long, taking bad sacks, misfiring passes, turning the ball over. How many games should he get before a change is made? The team is 3-2 as of right now. They've climbed out of the cellar of the offensive rankings. Wentz and the retooled offensive line have shown they can adjust and remain effective even if it hasn't been pretty.

I'm not saying McCarthy shouldn't get a chance. He should and he will. But the early returns have not been encouraging. Should that continue, where would you draw the line? Are you OK with KOC sacrificing the entire season in the pursuit of proving McCarthy can be a franchise QB?

My expectation is for him to play and grow. 8 quarters isn’t enough to form any kind of conclusion. Especially behind that offensive line he played behind those first two starts.

Look, clearly the Plan KOC and KAM are following centers around having a QB on Rookie deal and having the resources to load up around him and give he and the team the best opportunity for success . Most rookies struggle to some degree. It’s just a fact. Unfortunately injuries have affected things early on to some degree, but it doesn’t mean it’s time to throw in the towel. He’s set up for success from my perspective. I put more of the blame squarely on KOC for not adjusting his game plans and play calling to try to compensate for the injuries and inexperience.

I also believe it’s important to be realistic about this team and what it truly is. It’s a pretender at this point, not a contender. It doesn’t matter if you have a veteran journeyman QB or an inexperienced rookie QB. This is a .500 team, at best. It struggles to stop the run and doesn’t really have a formidable running game. Without those two aspects they aren’t going anywhere. Definitely not going to contend for anything. So, from that perspective, which is the one I hold, why would we want to play a veteran journeyman who is obviously not the future to possibly win and extra game or two and fight for a wild card and be 1 and done in the playoffs? To me, it makes more sense to get The 23 year old as many reps as possible and develop him, even if they loose more games this year as I truly don’t believe this team is any sort of contender, not this year. This is how teams end up with franchise QB’s. Growing pains are part of the deal. Look no further than the names on the list at the end of the Article I linked to my original post from the Daily Norseman. If teams should have given up due to rookies not meeting unrealistic expectations we may have never had Peyton Manning, or Josh Allen. Etc…. I am not saying McCarthy is going be one of this guys, what I am saying is let the process play out over time and let’s find out that’s all.

[CharVike]

Good to see the Lions taking a good beat down. The way the Bucs are playing they could be a problem next week.

[VikingLord]

I also believe it’s important to be realistic about this team and what it truly is. It’s a pretender at this point, not a contender. It doesn’t matter if you have a veteran journeyman QB or an inexperienced rookie QB. This is a .500 team, at best. It struggles to stop the run and doesn’t really have a formidable running game. Without those two aspects they aren’t going anywhere. Definitely not going to contend for anything. So, from that perspective, which is the one I hold, why would we want to play a veteran journeyman who is obviously not the future to possibly win and extra game or two and fight for a wild card and be 1 and done in the playoffs? To me, it makes more sense to get The 23 year old as many reps as possible and develop him, even if they loose more games this year as I truly don’t believe this team is any sort of contender, not this year. This is how teams end up with franchise QB’s. Growing pains are part of the deal. Look no further than the names on the list at the end of the Article I linked to my original post from the Daily Norseman. If teams should have given up due to rookies not meeting unrealistic expectations we may have never had Peyton Manning, or Josh Allen. Etc…. I am not saying McCarthy is going be one of this guys, what I am saying is let the process play out over time and let’s find out that’s all.

OK, I get where you're coming from and I can't say I disagree with your perspective although I suspect with the way KAM spent in free agency this last offseason he might not see it the same way.

I do agree that McCarthy needs more time so we can see if he can overcome some of the issues he's been having. I look forward to seeing how he plays against the Eagles. That is not a great defensive team. They've been terrible at getting pressure on the QB, so hopefully the Vikings OL can help him there. Their run and pass defense is middling, and they've struggled against mobile QBs thus far. If McCarthy can just start to string together a few drives and maybe hit a few plays down the field like he did in the 4th quarter of the game against the Bears I'll feel a lot better about his potential.

[CharVike]

This is looking like the 3 and out bowl as we are the worst and they are 2nd worst. The Eagles punter Mann has a 52.6 gross avg and Wright has a 49.1. The net avg is 41.8 vs 45.5. Both have 6 inside the 20. Mann has 3 touch backs and Wright 0. Thunderfoot Weaver I mean Wright has the longest bomb which is a tie for 77 yards. Looks like we have the edge in the punting game. A puntfest isn't the best way to get the home crowd fired up unless there's a block, down inside the 5, muff or big return.

https://www.crossingbroad.com/news/eagl ... out-teams/

As we diagnose the Eagles’ woes and sift through the data, a couple of numbers that jump off the page and slap you across the face ahead of Sunday’s game in Minnesota:

3 and out percentage

Eagles: 34.9% (2nd worst)
Vikings: 35.1% (worst)
3rd down conversion rate

Eagles: 34.7% (6th worst)
Vikings: 31% (third worst)

So expect a lot of punting inside of U.S. Bank Stadium on Sunday afternoon, beginning at 1 p.m. The teams have combined for 54 punts through 11 games, not coincidentally because J.J. McCarthy, Carson Wentz, and Jalen Hurts have been sacked 39 times. In Minnesota’s case, they’re 3-2 because they have a very good defense and haven’t exactly played a murderer’s row type of schedule, facing the Bears, Falcons, Browns, Steelers, and Joe Burrow-less Bengals. The Eagles have already had to play the Cowboys, Chiefs, Buccaneers, Rams, Broncos, and Giants.
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The Eagles did beat the Chiefs in the SB rematch which is impressive. The Chiefs are still a strong team as shown by the hammering they laid on the Lions. Plus they beat the Rams 33-26 only giving up 7 points in the 2nd half which again is impressive.
Even taking down the Bucs is a good win.

[CharVike]

I originally thought we had a good chance beating this team. But now I think the Eagles overall are too much better all around. Plus they have beat some good teams and haven't played good ball yet. Beating the Chiefs, Rams and Bucs is very impressive. They tripped up against the Giants who are a division rival but I don't see them tripping over us. The Eagles need to get their ground game working and I do believe it will happen this week. They got an extra rest with a half week bye and we got a week off after being in Europe for 2 weeks. Who's better off. I see it Eagles 31-20.

[Cliff]

I originally thought we had a good chance beating this team. But now I think the Eagles overall are too much better all around. Plus they have beat some good teams and haven't played good ball yet. Beating the Chiefs, Rams and Bucs is very impressive. They tripped up against the Giants who are a division rival but I don't see them tripping over us. The Eagles need to get their ground game working and I do believe it will happen this week. They got an extra rest with a half week bye and we got a week off after being in Europe for 2 weeks. Who's better off. I see it Eagles 31-20.

This year really seems to be an "Any Given Sunday" type season. I've really got no good handle on which team is going to win from week to week. At this point the Eagles and Vikings seem pretty evenly matched. It's really anybody's game.

[CharVike]

I originally thought we had a good chance beating this team. But now I think the Eagles overall are too much better all around. Plus they have beat some good teams and haven't played good ball yet. Beating the Chiefs, Rams and Bucs is very impressive. They tripped up against the Giants who are a division rival but I don't see them tripping over us. The Eagles need to get their ground game working and I do believe it will happen this week. They got an extra rest with a half week bye and we got a week off after being in Europe for 2 weeks. Who's better off. I see it Eagles 31-20.

This year really seems to be an "Any Given Sunday" type season. I've really got no good handle on which team is going to win from week to week. At this point the Eagles and Vikings seem pretty evenly matched. It's really anybody's game.

That's true. I just make a best guess at these games. Nothing would surprise me. The Commanders letting the game get away from them is ridiculous.

[VikingsVictorious]

I'm hoping for a fully healthy JJ McCarthy starting and leading our Vikings to victory.

[VikingLord]

I originally thought we had a good chance beating this team. But now I think the Eagles overall are too much better all around. Plus they have beat some good teams and haven't played good ball yet. Beating the Chiefs, Rams and Bucs is very impressive. They tripped up against the Giants who are a division rival but I don't see them tripping over us. The Eagles need to get their ground game working and I do believe it will happen this week. They got an extra rest with a half week bye and we got a week off after being in Europe for 2 weeks. Who's better off. I see it Eagles 31-20.

I think the biggest risk for the Vikings defense against the Eagles offense is they let Saquon go off. He hasn't had a great year by any measure but the Vikings defense has been awfully generous to opposing running backs so far. I'm not as worried about Hurts and the Eagles passing game. I think defensive coordinators have found ways to force Hurts into uncomfortable situations and I expect Flores will have little trouble doing the same.

For the Vikings offense against the Eagles defense, execution will again be a critical factor. The Vikings have to minimize the unforced errors like false starts that have been drive killers, and avoid the turnovers that have created short fields and even led to direct points. If the Vikings offense can play a clean game I like their chances.