Offseason Thread

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CharVike
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Re: Offseason Thread

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:42 am
VikingLord wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:47 am

I don't know if I agree with this conclusion. I think it is very likely (90% or so) at least one guard goes in the 1st round, perhaps in the first 15 picks. Teams are watching Philly and KC. It's a monkey-see, monkey-do league, and both teams have had good IOL play that has been a huge part of their success on offense. The Lions also had good IOL play. While there isn't a bumper crop of top prospects at center for sure, the guard position might be deeper than what you quoted indicates.
Ironically, Philly and KC were both starting backups on the interior in the conference championship and both did just fine. KC in particular had two great interior players in that game, and then arguably below average to bad players in the other 3 spots on the Oline. It didn't matter because Buffalo's front 5 isn't very good at getting to the passer, but if Mark Andrews doesn't sell last week, Baltimore does take advantage and probably keeps KC out of the Super Bowl. Houston just manhandled that line the week prior, they just didn't have the offense to make KC pay.

As for following Philly's approach, the Vikings would need to fire Kwesi and hire a GM who is competent at drafting to come close to what they did. They aren't just good on the interior of the Oline, they are top 5 at nearly every position group outside of maybe QB, and even he arguably among the top 5 QBs in the league, definitely top 10. In fact, you replace any our position groups outside of the pass catchers with Philly's and it would be a massive upgrade. That is true for most teams in the league too. In other words, it isn't just the IOL, it is everything.

Roseman is honestly on his way to becoming the greatest GM of all time and doesn't get nearly enough credit for what he has done with that team. Or at least he is great when he isn't being asked to pick between Reagor and Justin Jefferson that is.
I agree with Roseman. I thought when they lost their center they would have trouble because he was a great player/leader. Didn't miss a beat. I won't take anything away from Hurts who is a true dual threat. He can take it all the way which is a #### for a defense. Defiantly top 10. I really like Jalen Carter. You must put 2 on him. That's an incredible advantage. They have a talented team and hate to say it but we can't play with them at this point. Plus Roseman got Pickette as a backup who performed well enough in that role. With Hurts playing style a good backup is needed. I read their OL coach is great. The Bills/Raven game was very good. The Ravens made to many turnovers and still had a chance on the road. They are the better team but didn't play better.
The Chiefs are stacked and deep. That kid WR Worthy is a lighting bolt. Trying to win 3 SB in a row with today's constant roster turnover is very impressive. They can play any game you want. The draft when they selected the RB in round 7 was a dream.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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VikingLord wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:47 am
CharVike wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:52 pm As for guards, Tyler Booker, Tate Ratledge and Donovan Jackson seem to be getting the most hype. However, it's currently a long shot that we see any of them drafted in the first round. For that reason, look for NFL teams to hit free agency hard at center and guard in March.
I don't know if I agree with this conclusion. I think it is very likely (90% or so) at least one guard goes in the 1st round, perhaps in the first 15 picks. Teams are watching Philly and KC. It's a monkey-see, monkey-do league, and both teams have had good IOL play that has been a huge part of their success on offense. The Lions also had good IOL play. While there isn't a bumper crop of top prospects at center for sure, the guard position might be deeper than what you quoted indicates.
It's only their take. More than likely a few starting guards will come from this group and some will be later picks. For our team we could almost select any position group at 24 and justify it. CB seems to be deep but like most years the top cover players will go quickly. I seen a mock that has us taking a safety. If we let Bynum walk that could be true especially with Smith facing retirement.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:42 am Roseman is honestly on his way to becoming the greatest GM of all time and doesn't get nearly enough credit for what he has done with that team. Or at least he is great when he isn't being asked to pick between Reagor and Justin Jefferson that is.
A GM who can draft well is great. A GM who makes astute moves in free agency is great. A GM who does both well is priceless.

What impresses me the most about GMs who succeed in the draft is that they typically don't trade much. They're content to sit and let the oversights of other GMs fall into their laps, rarely if ever reach, and just make the right moves because they know what they are doing and are not letting emotions get in the way like convincing themselves some great talent is mysteriously falling down the draft board and they just have to move up to get him even at great cost to future draft resources.

As you note the one thing that can get in their way is a team owner that thinks he knows better. Team owners should stay out of player personnel matters. They're people who think they know more than they do about a lot of things.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:38 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:35 pm This is good research, but I am not convinced there is a guard out there with a consensus first-round grade. Vikings will not go guard in the first. It would be bad value, and Kwesi is all about value.
Well, I checked a site that tracks mocks and this is what they have for Tyler Booker: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/pl ... ler-booker

He's generally trending up and I expect that to continue throughout the pre-draft evaluation period. He's a very good prospect at guard.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:35 pm I’ll go even further. I don’t think Kwesi & company will draft a guard at all.

The reason is simple: I believe KOC is going to win all free agency battles. He’s fed up with the IOL holding this offense back, so he’ll get his guard, maybe two of them. If the Vikings stay at 24, I believe they’ll take either a CB or DT. If they trade back, don’t be surprised if they go RB. That would also be a position to draft in that 3rd round comp pick slot. This is the best and deepest RB class in years, and it’s a position of need. We all love Aaron Jones, but he can’t stay healthy. After him, there’s nothing. The team’s red zone woes won’t get fixed until the Vikings can run the ball.
The top FA at guard is probably the guy from KC (forget his name right now), and I've seen estimates he'll command upwards of $20 million a year. KAM does have some cap space to work with, but he's also got to think about the secondary. If he were to make plays for two 2nd-tier IOL prospects in FA this year he's looking at between $20-30 million of that cap space gone.

I'm not convinced it's possible for him to solve the problem solely through FA, even assuming the Vikings have McCarthy as their starting QB next year on a rookie deal.
A mock I read today at The Athletic had both Jackson and Booker going late first, so it appears I’m wrong on that one.

Really not sure what the Vikings will do with that 24th pick. It will depend greatly upon what their free agency strategy is, and who they can actually sign. The Vikings need players (only 31 are under contract for 2025) so I think a strong possibility is that they trade back to get picks in rounds 2 and 3. That would be sticky … they’d likely have to give up a mid-round pick in 2026 along with their first-rounder this year. If they trade back, I could definitely see them taking a guard. At 24? Not so sure, but who knows?

I also have to admit … I’ve got PTSD when it comes the Vikings and anything they do with guards and centers. They’ve been nothing short of horrible for the better part of 15 years. Who was the last decent Vikings guard? Brandon Fusco for one year in 2012? Or do we have to go all the way back to Hutch? Part of me wants them to pay what it takes to get a guy like Trey Smith, who at least has a proven track record and doesn’t need to be developed. It’s tough for me to trust the Vikings to develop an IOL player. So that’s a bias on my part.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:39 pm Really not sure what the Vikings will do with that 24th pick. It will depend greatly upon what their free agency strategy is, and who they can actually sign. The Vikings need players (only 31 are under contract for 2025) so I think a strong possibility is that they trade back to get picks in rounds 2 and 3. That would be sticky … they’d likely have to give up a mid-round pick in 2026 along with their first-rounder this year. If they trade back, I could definitely see them taking a guard. At 24? Not so sure, but who knows?
The more I look at how things are setting up in the 1st round, the more I like where the Vikings are sitting. They've snagged some really good players in that 20-25 range and I think this is another year where the value likely matches the position as far as the Vikings are concerned. I could see a bona fide IOL prospect on the board at 24 along with good options at RB, S and CB. Not bad at all IF KAM recognizes what has fallen into his lap.

Of course, a trade back could work too depending on strategy as you point out. I just hope if KAM does trade back and passes on someone who might legitimately be a better overall prospect he's got a better reason than simply picking up another mid-round pick so he can take another swing later in the draft. I hope he's learned from his mistakes.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:39 pm I also have to admit … I’ve got PTSD when it comes the Vikings and anything they do with guards and centers. They’ve been nothing short of horrible for the better part of 15 years. Who was the last decent Vikings guard? Brandon Fusco for one year in 2012? Or do we have to go all the way back to Hutch? Part of me wants them to pay what it takes to get a guy like Trey Smith, who at least has a proven track record and doesn’t need to be developed. It’s tough for me to trust the Vikings to develop an IOL player. So that’s a bias on my part.
It comes down to doing the homework on the prospects. I think they did that with Darrisaw, for example, and they've gotten good results. And I think they can repeat that with an IOL prospect this year too.

I still think for as much cap space as they have there is no way KAM can fill all the holes in free agency alone, at least not with top-tier FA prospects. He'll have to find value in FA. At best he can splurge on maybe a CB and one IOL. And then he needs to hit on his picks in the draft this year. Not all of them, but most, especially given how few he has. He needs the young guys he drafted last year to develop and play well too.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 5:00 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:39 pm Really not sure what the Vikings will do with that 24th pick. It will depend greatly upon what their free agency strategy is, and who they can actually sign. The Vikings need players (only 31 are under contract for 2025) so I think a strong possibility is that they trade back to get picks in rounds 2 and 3. That would be sticky … they’d likely have to give up a mid-round pick in 2026 along with their first-rounder this year. If they trade back, I could definitely see them taking a guard. At 24? Not so sure, but who knows?
The more I look at how things are setting up in the 1st round, the more I like where the Vikings are sitting. They've snagged some really good players in that 20-25 range and I think this is another year where the value likely matches the position as far as the Vikings are concerned. I could see a bona fide IOL prospect on the board at 24 along with good options at RB, S and CB. Not bad at all IF KAM recognizes what has fallen into his lap.

Of course, a trade back could work too depending on strategy as you point out. I just hope if KAM does trade back and passes on someone who might legitimately be a better overall prospect he's got a better reason than simply picking up another mid-round pick so he can take another swing later in the draft. I hope he's learned from his mistakes.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:39 pm I also have to admit … I’ve got PTSD when it comes the Vikings and anything they do with guards and centers. They’ve been nothing short of horrible for the better part of 15 years. Who was the last decent Vikings guard? Brandon Fusco for one year in 2012? Or do we have to go all the way back to Hutch? Part of me wants them to pay what it takes to get a guy like Trey Smith, who at least has a proven track record and doesn’t need to be developed. It’s tough for me to trust the Vikings to develop an IOL player. So that’s a bias on my part.
It comes down to doing the homework on the prospects. I think they did that with Darrisaw, for example, and they've gotten good results. And I think they can repeat that with an IOL prospect this year too.

I still think for as much cap space as they have there is no way KAM can fill all the holes in free agency alone, at least not with top-tier FA prospects. He'll have to find value in FA. At best he can splurge on maybe a CB and one IOL. And then he needs to hit on his picks in the draft this year. Not all of them, but most, especially given how few he has. He needs the young guys he drafted last year to develop and play well too.
One thing about KAM … he doesn’t see draft picks as lottery tickets, the way Spielman did. Spielman seemed to operate with the philosophy that the more picks you had, the better your chances of picking a winner. At least KAM understands that a second-round pick has more value than four seventh-rounders. Whether he can pick the right guy is another story.

Weirdly enough — and I say this as a person who has devalued the RB position as much as anyone — I would not be opposed to the Vikings taking a running back at 24. It’s a position of need, for one thing. For another, I see running back as a position that isn’t really meant to get a big payday on a second contract. I mean, for every Saquon Barkley, there are 100 other backs who don’t come close to thriving beyond the age of 27. Even Pro Bowl backs tend to fall off a cliff after about 5 or 6 years. Think Ezekiel Elliott, Dalvin Cook, and others. So I think it’s good value to get a true game-changing running back, someone who can come in and start from Day 1, at the back end of the first round … mainly because you get him for 5 years on the cheap. Then you can let somebody else pay him 4 years of a huge salary for a year’s worth of production.

And we all see what a difference it makes to have a top notch running game. Philly has rushed for more than 3,700 yards as a team this year, including the playoffs. They’re in the Super Bowl. Yet they weren’t even first in the league. Baltimore was. The top 6 teams in rushing all made the playoffs, with 4 of the 6 winning their division, and Buffalo not far behind at 9th.

Of course, having a great rushing attack starts with the offensive line. Philly and Baltimore have offensive lines that just bludgeon you to death. Yes, envy is one of the 7 deadly sins. Guilty, your honor.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:57 pm
Weirdly enough — and I say this as a person who has devalued the RB position as much as anyone — I would not be opposed to the Vikings taking a running back at 24. It’s a position of need, for one thing. For another, I see running back as a position that isn’t really meant to get a big payday on a second contract. I mean, for every Saquon Barkley, there are 100 other backs who don’t come close to thriving beyond the age of 27.
I think a number of really bad GMs devalued that RB position this off season and a bunch of good GMs benefited from it. There is no reason LV, NY, and TN should have let their RBs go for nothing, they had the cap space and a good run game can only help a bad QB situation. They fell victim to the analytics trap that says RBs have little value, ignoring the fact that the analytics can't factor in how a strong run game changes what plays are called on both the offense and defense, or how the run game in the 1st and 2nd quarter wears down and opens up a defense in the 3rd and 4th.

You are correct that RBs like Saquon are the rare exception too. There are significantly fewer workhorse RBs than there are quality starting QBs, and most RBs are a dime a dozen. I think that also feeds the myth that RBs aren't as valuable as other positions, because most aren't.

The other thing that factors into this is the shift to two high safeties in recent years. This makes a good run game a killer on offense, and I expect a shift back starting next season, with how successful Detroit, Philly and Baltimore were this year. That will be good news for the Vikings, who have nothing at RB right now, and who probably won't end up improving the interior of the Oline to the point where we are dangerous running the football.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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A prospect I like for G is Anthony Belton NC State 6'5" 356. The guy is a monster. He played LT in college but some see him moving inside because speed rushers gave him problems. Against power rushers he played great. The guy is a powerful player and mean. He's a 5th round or lower projection.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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On the topic of KAM's extension and the draft there is this article by Kevin Seifert over at ESPN today - https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/436 ... las-turner

Some highlights from that:
As they compiled a 34-17 record (.667) from 2022 to 2024, the Vikings had 107 starts from players drafted during that period. It was the NFL's second-lowest total over that time frame, according to ESPN Research. The Miami Dolphins were the only team with fewer (31), but their scope was limited by league discipline that forced them to forfeit a first-round pick in 2023 and a third-rounder in 2024.
The Vikings have three 2025 draft picks (with one more likely coming via the NFL's compensatory system), which puts them on track to select the second-fewest players among NFL teams in the four drafts between 2022 and 2025, per ESPN Research projections.
Adofo-Mensah acknowledged his poor 2022 class after waiving first-round safety Lewis Cine and trading second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr., saying he tried to fill too many of the team's needs in one draft. Guard Ed Ingram, another second-round pick that year, was benched midseason after the Vikings gave him 2 1/2 seasons to develop. All told, the Vikings can count one impact player (Addison) and one consistent offensive or defensive contributor (receiver Jalen Nailor) among the 19 players they've drafted since the start of 2022.
But Adofo-Mensah put a historic level of faith in acquiring linebacker Dallas Turner, trading six picks and using a seventh to draft him No. 17 overall last spring. At the time, the Vikings had already signed linebackers Jonathan Greenard and Andrew Van Ginkel in free agency. Both started all 17 games and made the Pro Bowl, while Turner played only 315 defensive snaps (26.8%). A total of 51 rookies around the NFL played more.
The Kansas City Chiefs, for example, have benefited from 286 starts among players drafted between 2022 and 2024, more than twice the Vikings' total. The Chiefs are headed to their fifth Super Bowl in the past six seasons.
After reading that I really do cringe when I think of the Vikings extending KAM. His first draft in particular was bad, but one does wonder had the Vikings not lucked into their Sam Darnold renaissance this past year and gotten historically good production out of their defensive free agent signings what this past season would have looked like. They were expected to be a 6-win team heading into the season that somehow produced 14 wins. So now they are drafting accordingly, but without draft picks in most rounds because those picks were traded away for non-productive prospects. Whether those prospects become productive remains to be seen, but one would think the 2024 Vikings were coming off a Superbowl victory heading into this offseason rather than an unceremonious 1st round butt kicking.

I really hope the Wilfs are objectively looking at KAM before they extend him.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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VikingLord wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:28 pm On the topic of KAM's extension and the draft there is this article by Kevin Seifert over at ESPN today - https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/436 ... las-turner

Some highlights from that:
As they compiled a 34-17 record (.667) from 2022 to 2024, the Vikings had 107 starts from players drafted during that period. It was the NFL's second-lowest total over that time frame, according to ESPN Research. The Miami Dolphins were the only team with fewer (31), but their scope was limited by league discipline that forced them to forfeit a first-round pick in 2023 and a third-rounder in 2024.
The Vikings have three 2025 draft picks (with one more likely coming via the NFL's compensatory system), which puts them on track to select the second-fewest players among NFL teams in the four drafts between 2022 and 2025, per ESPN Research projections.
Adofo-Mensah acknowledged his poor 2022 class after waiving first-round safety Lewis Cine and trading second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr., saying he tried to fill too many of the team's needs in one draft. Guard Ed Ingram, another second-round pick that year, was benched midseason after the Vikings gave him 2 1/2 seasons to develop. All told, the Vikings can count one impact player (Addison) and one consistent offensive or defensive contributor (receiver Jalen Nailor) among the 19 players they've drafted since the start of 2022.
But Adofo-Mensah put a historic level of faith in acquiring linebacker Dallas Turner, trading six picks and using a seventh to draft him No. 17 overall last spring. At the time, the Vikings had already signed linebackers Jonathan Greenard and Andrew Van Ginkel in free agency. Both started all 17 games and made the Pro Bowl, while Turner played only 315 defensive snaps (26.8%). A total of 51 rookies around the NFL played more.
The Kansas City Chiefs, for example, have benefited from 286 starts among players drafted between 2022 and 2024, more than twice the Vikings' total. The Chiefs are headed to their fifth Super Bowl in the past six seasons.
After reading that I really do cringe when I think of the Vikings extending KAM. His first draft in particular was bad, but one does wonder had the Vikings not lucked into their Sam Darnold renaissance this past year and gotten historically good production out of their defensive free agent signings what this past season would have looked like. They were expected to be a 6-win team heading into the season that somehow produced 14 wins. So now they are drafting accordingly, but without draft picks in most rounds because those picks were traded away for non-productive prospects. Whether those prospects become productive remains to be seen, but one would think the 2024 Vikings were coming off a Superbowl victory heading into this offseason rather than an unceremonious 1st round butt kicking.

I really hope the Wilfs are objectively looking at KAM before they extend him.
You can't extend him. Turner was many swings for 1 player so he needs to play FT day 1. He can't draft. I don't see some light coming on all the sudden for him.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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One other quote from that ESPN article that stood out to me was this:
Asked earlier this month if he thinks he should make any changes to his draft process, Adofo-Mensah initially said "it's amazing that I get asked these questions," but later added that the team is "always" trying to get better.
In reading it over again, I think that is the most damning line in that article because it shows an incredible lack of self awareness. Does KAM really not understand why someone would ask him that question after his demonstrably poor record in the draft? That's like a student bringing home repeated failing grades and when his parents ask him if he's doing all he can do to learn the material is amazed that he'd even be asked that.

I'm still also not convinced KAM knows what he's doing with free agency either. He did try to bring Cousins back on a multi-year deal. In hindsight, he was saved from the consequences of that by the Falcons. Had he managed to keep Cousins, that would have affected his other home runs on the defensive side of the ball, or some other position. Also, the move to get Darnold was far from genius-level. There is a good reason he came cheap, and one could argue that KAM missed there by not adding a team option clause to Darnold's contract when Darnold would have likely been open to it.

I wonder if there is a chance the Vikings don't extend KAM. Like others, maybe that isn't where you want to be with your GM heading into an offseason, but if I'm the Wilfs I'd want KAM to be in prove-it mode before they decide they want him at the helm longer.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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More context for the Vikings offseason decisions, this time related to Garrett Bradbury from https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... 0834&ei=23:
Bradbury finished the 2024 season with PFF's lowest pass blocking grade among Vikings O-linemen, so it's no surprise that his future with the team would be under the microscope.
For context, the Philadelphia Eagles drafted center Cam Jurgens in the second round in 2022, and he's already one of the top centers in the NFL, making the NFC's initial Pro Bowl roster this season. The Vikings can't say the same for Bradbury, who they took No. 19 overall in 2019. The team likely projected him as a top-five player at the position at this point in his contract. Instead, he's struggling to the tune of 38 pressures allowed this season, the most among NFL centers in 2024
I really thought Bradbury wasn't terrible this last season, but his performance placed in context with other NFL centers is abysmal. One does have to wonder if the entire interior OL needs to be replaced, and if so, how to go about that in a way that is realistic with the other needs the team has.

The author of that article believes the Vikings will stick with Bradbury for at least another year. Center is not a position of strength in the draft this year, so I don't think KAM can address it via that avenue even if he wanted to do it that way.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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As they compiled a 34-17 record (.667) from 2022 to 2024, the Vikings had 107 starts from players drafted during that period. It was the NFL's second-lowest total over that time frame, according to ESPN Research. The Miami Dolphins were the only team with fewer (31), but their scope was limited by league discipline that forced them to forfeit a first-round pick in 2023 and a third-rounder in 2024.
Of those 107 starts, the vast majority are from terrible players like Evans, Ingram, Hall, and Chandler. Only 29 starts from a quality starter in Addison, and with a few backups getting starts because of injury to fill out the rest.

He really has had the worst drafts of the past 3 seasons, and I think that more than anything will force his hand into doing whatever it takes to get JJ McCarthy starting this coming season. He needs JJ to make his drafts not look bad, because 2025 and his 1 pick in the first 3 rounds isn't going to cut it.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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StumpHunter wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 5:57 pm
As they compiled a 34-17 record (.667) from 2022 to 2024, the Vikings had 107 starts from players drafted during that period. It was the NFL's second-lowest total over that time frame, according to ESPN Research. The Miami Dolphins were the only team with fewer (31), but their scope was limited by league discipline that forced them to forfeit a first-round pick in 2023 and a third-rounder in 2024.
Of those 107 starts, the vast majority are from terrible players like Evans, Ingram, Hall, and Chandler. Only 29 starts from a quality starter in Addison, and with a few backups getting starts because of injury to fill out the rest.

He really has had the worst drafts of the past 3 seasons, and I think that more than anything will force his hand into doing whatever it takes to get JJ McCarthy starting this coming season. He needs JJ to make his drafts not look bad, because 2025 and his 1 pick in the first 3 rounds isn't going to cut it.
To be fair when considering those stats they drafted JJ who they never intened to start, Turner who was behind Van Ginkel, and Cine who was immediately injured. We'll never know if he was destine to be terrible or if he never fully recovered.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Post by CharVike »

Cliff wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:02 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 5:57 pm
Of those 107 starts, the vast majority are from terrible players like Evans, Ingram, Hall, and Chandler. Only 29 starts from a quality starter in Addison, and with a few backups getting starts because of injury to fill out the rest.

He really has had the worst drafts of the past 3 seasons, and I think that more than anything will force his hand into doing whatever it takes to get JJ McCarthy starting this coming season. He needs JJ to make his drafts not look bad, because 2025 and his 1 pick in the first 3 rounds isn't going to cut it.
To be fair when considering those stats they drafted JJ who they never intened to start, Turner who was behind Van Ginkel, and Cine who was immediately injured. We'll never know if he was destine to be terrible or if he never fully recovered.
There is no sense making a bunch of moves for a 1st round backup. Turner might not start until year 4 unless Ginkel is dealt or told to be a backup at his cap number. Round 1 isn't a depth/development round. KAM has been living off Speilman's players. Which is fine but fill the holes with your players. That all starts with drafting and signing UDFA and he has failed.