Off-season Prediction Thread

[halfgiz]

All three of them QB’s was backup QB’s, not a starting QB making 40 million a year.
KOC play calling didn’t help them at all. I blame KOC for a couple losses.
A backup QB with a weak arm threw for a couple 400 yard games. Goes to show talent on offense.
Sure Kirk was in a three game win streak, but what about Kirks 1- 4 start? I would say turnovers was our nemesis even for Kirk.

[Cliff]

All three of them QB’s was backup QB’s, not a starting QB making 40 million a year.
KOC play calling didn’t help them at all. I blame KOC for a couple losses.
A backup QB with a weak arm threw for a couple 400 yard games. Goes to show talent on offense.
Sure Kirk was in a three game win streak, but what about Kirks 1- 4 start? I would say turnovers was our nemesis even for Kirk.

Turnovers is what lost this team games. When the team is even or better on turnover ratio with the other team KOC's record is something like 18-0. His play calling is fine as long as the team holds onto the ball ...

[VikingsVictorious]

If Kirk doesn't go down we win the division over the Lions and host at least one playoff game.

Kirk was a 500 QB when he was done for the season. 4-4
In fact even though he missed half a season he still lead the team in turnovers. Even Mullen’s couldn’t catch him.

Something else, the year Teddy was drafted he was the starting QB by game 5.

Sure Kam wants Kirk back. All they have to do is agree on a contract which they couldn’t do this year.
Edit: last year

Kirk was playing VERY WELL when he got injured. Just dominated San Francisco. The Vikings as a team got off to a rough start, but had worked the kinks out and was ready to go on a great run the rest of the season. I stand by division champs if he had not got injured, but of course that can't be proven and we will never know.

[VikingsVictorious]

Kwesi on resigning Kirk.

[StanM]

I have noticed that too. I think they’re ignoring my comments. I wouldn’t blame them. I would ignore me too.

My thoughts on the offseason is that there are a lot of needs in multiple position groups. I’m guessing it will be another case of there not being enough draft picks and money for free agents to fix it all. Simple math tells me that the number of draft picks and dollars isn’t enough to solve every weakness. Add the fact that they played just good enough to not have a top five pick and got a more difficult schedule out of it. I see they are playing in London as well and that is a difficult week for any team.

I think it’s unrealistic to expect them to right the ship to a contender by next season. I’m thinking that running it back in 2022 and calling it a competitive rebuild in 2023 isn’t the best approach but was a condition of employment to follow ownership’s plan. Meanwhile the rest of the division looks to be improving as we stumble. I hope that all turns around.

Many feel like a ghost mainly because nothing is happening at this point. I like to read peoples thoughts but when it's always one player that gets 99% of the attention it can get boring. StanM we have 9 draft picks and if we pick well you should be able to get a few guys that can make an immediate impact. If we draft like we did in 2022 and get nothing then the amount of picks don't matter. The scouting along with the GM don't have their act together. I don't know what the best approach is. Having nothing at QB will never work. I also don't think the rest of the division is improving. The Lions are the champs but are they really that much better than us? Their D blows and they will get beat in the playoffs. The Packers made the playoffs but we hammered them when we were healthy. Their D blows also. The Bears are still searching for a QB which might never end. They missed a great DL player in the draft last year when they traded their pick to the Eagles. That's stumbling big time. You can't miss great players when they fall in your lap. We did it with Hamilton last year. Having cap for the free agent garbage dump is not the answers. There will be a few players out there that are very good but you will need to overpay big time. The rest are players teams no longer wanted. Friendly cut players like Davenport who we threw 13 million away on last season. You can't build that way not matter what you call the build. We need to draft the best in the league. No more than that.

I agree. I have seen a lot of changes over the years, players come and go. Three stadiums, every Vikings player since 1961, and every Vikings playoff game since they started. I am one of those “Win One Before I Die” and have the whole collection of Before I Die empty cans.

[VikingsVictorious]

Many feel like a ghost mainly because nothing is happening at this point. I like to read peoples thoughts but when it's always one player that gets 99% of the attention it can get boring. StanM we have 9 draft picks and if we pick well you should be able to get a few guys that can make an immediate impact. If we draft like we did in 2022 and get nothing then the amount of picks don't matter. The scouting along with the GM don't have their act together. I don't know what the best approach is. Having nothing at QB will never work. I also don't think the rest of the division is improving. The Lions are the champs but are they really that much better than us? Their D blows and they will get beat in the playoffs. The Packers made the playoffs but we hammered them when we were healthy. Their D blows also. The Bears are still searching for a QB which might never end. They missed a great DL player in the draft last year when they traded their pick to the Eagles. That's stumbling big time. You can't miss great players when they fall in your lap. We did it with Hamilton last year. Having cap for the free agent garbage dump is not the answers. There will be a few players out there that are very good but you will need to overpay big time. The rest are players teams no longer wanted. Friendly cut players like Davenport who we threw 13 million away on last season. You can't build that way not matter what you call the build. We need to draft the best in the league. No more than that.

I agree. I have seen a lot of changes over the years, players come and go. Three stadiums, every Vikings player since 1961, and every Vikings playoff game since they started. I am one of those “Win One Before I Die” and have the whole collection of Before I Die empty cans.

I think they're more valuable as a collectors item if they're unopened, but what's the fun in that?

[CharVike]

Many feel like a ghost mainly because nothing is happening at this point. I like to read peoples thoughts but when it's always one player that gets 99% of the attention it can get boring. StanM we have 9 draft picks and if we pick well you should be able to get a few guys that can make an immediate impact. If we draft like we did in 2022 and get nothing then the amount of picks don't matter. The scouting along with the GM don't have their act together. I don't know what the best approach is. Having nothing at QB will never work. I also don't think the rest of the division is improving. The Lions are the champs but are they really that much better than us? Their D blows and they will get beat in the playoffs. The Packers made the playoffs but we hammered them when we were healthy. Their D blows also. The Bears are still searching for a QB which might never end. They missed a great DL player in the draft last year when they traded their pick to the Eagles. That's stumbling big time. You can't miss great players when they fall in your lap. We did it with Hamilton last year. Having cap for the free agent garbage dump is not the answers. There will be a few players out there that are very good but you will need to overpay big time. The rest are players teams no longer wanted. Friendly cut players like Davenport who we threw 13 million away on last season. You can't build that way not matter what you call the build. We need to draft the best in the league. No more than that.

I agree. I have seen a lot of changes over the years, players come and go. Three stadiums, every Vikings player since 1961, and every Vikings playoff game since they started. I am one of those “Win One Before I Die” and have the whole collection of Before I Die empty cans.

What you did see and not many have was the last NFL championship that we won. 1970 was the merger. So you have that one and drink another for it. I have never seen a championship.

[StanM]

I agree. I have seen a lot of changes over the years, players come and go. Three stadiums, every Vikings player since 1961, and every Vikings playoff game since they started. I am one of those “Win One Before I Die” and have the whole collection of Before I Die empty cans.

What you did see and not many have was the last NFL championship that we won. 1970 was the merger. So you have that one and drink another for it. I have never seen a championship.

The Vikings of the 70’s were one of the top teams and were always in the Super Bowl conversation. It’s a lot different now, the game and league have changed. I probably won’t see them win one but it has been fun having a pro football team.

[Maelstrom88]

I'd like to see the team trade up for Drake Maye even if it costs a fortune.

It's also ridiculous that Flores didn't get a HC interview. He's better than Raheem Morris and as good as Patrick Graham and Dan Quinn. I'm happy to keep him another year though. He may take over for KOC soon.

[CharVike]

I'd like to see the team trade up for Drake Maye even if it costs a fortune.

It's also ridiculous that Flores didn't get a HC interview. He's better than Raheem Morris and as good as Patrick Graham and Dan Quinn. I'm happy to keep him another year though. He may take over for KOC soon.

I think he's the best QB prospect in this class. He has a great arm, movement and is a big dude. That's every physical skill needed. Far above the other 2. Jayden Daniels I don't even know how he is rated as a 1st rounder. He has a weak arm and is thin. Being thin and a runner at the NFL level isn't a good combination. Somebody will break him in half. Here is what I read. Jayden Daniels' main weakness is his arm strength. He has great motion, touch, and accuracy, yet he fails to deliver the ball with zip and is especially unrefined on throws against his body and outside the numbers.Jan 6, 2024. We already have that with Mullens. In the end he will put bodies in the seats. That's the main objective for every owner. Cash is king for them also. Flores will get a chance again. He controlled himself very well for us and put a good product out there with little talent. Perhaps letting the Lions score 30 twice in a short time frame didn't help either. It showed a lack of adjusting. That never looks good.

[VikingLord]

I'd like to see the team trade up for Drake Maye even if it costs a fortune.

It's also ridiculous that Flores didn't get a HC interview. He's better than Raheem Morris and as good as Patrick Graham and Dan Quinn. I'm happy to keep him another year though. He may take over for KOC soon.

I think he's the best QB prospect in this class. He has a great arm, movement and is a big dude. That's every physical skill needed. Far above the other 2. Jayden Daniels I don't even know how he is rated as a 1st rounder. He has a weak arm and is thin. Being thin and a runner at the NFL level isn't a good combination. Somebody will break him in half. Here is what I read. Jayden Daniels' main weakness is his arm strength. He has great motion, touch, and accuracy, yet he fails to deliver the ball with zip and is especially unrefined on throws against his body and outside the numbers.Jan 6, 2024. We already have that with Mullens. In the end he will put bodies in the seats. That's the main objective for every owner. Cash is king for them also. Flores will get a chance again. He controlled himself very well for us and put a good product out there with little talent. Perhaps letting the Lions score 30 twice in a short time frame didn't help either. It showed a lack of adjusting. That never looks good.

Daniels has a weak arm? Where did you read/see that?

This is what Walter Football has to say about Daniels:

01/24/24: Daniels completed 72 percent of his passes in 2023 for 3,812 yards, 40 touchdowns and four interceptions. He notched 10 rushing touchdowns as well. Daniels is a dual-threat quarterback who showed improvement as a passer throughout the 2022 season with LSU. He has a quality arm and is a dangerous runner with shocking speed. While he has plenty of room for growth, Daniels has become more consistent with pocket-passing accuracy and reading the field.

Daniels completed 69 percent of his passes in 2022 for 2,913 yards, 17 touchdowns and three interceptions. He also went for 885 yards and 11 touchdowns on the ground. While playing for Arizona State in 2021, Daniels completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,380 yards, 10 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. He was impressive in 2019, showing playmaking ability as a passer and runner while producing points for the Sun Devils, but he did not look as good in the short 2020 season.

I mean, is he a big guy? Not really. But if someone is saying he is too small or has a weak arm, I think they either don't know what they're talking about or are not looking at the tape. A guy doesn't complete 72 percent for almost 4,000 yards and 40 TDs if he can't throw it in all situations.

The two things holding Daniels back from the consensus #1 QB in this draft are his relative size (he's 6'3" but only weighs 185 pounds) and the fact that he only produced at an elite level in his final year of college. Take those two things away, however, and I think Daniels would be the first QB off the board.

By comparison, the consensus #1 QB in this year's draft, Caleb Williams, completed 69% of his passes for ~3,600 yards and 30 TDs. He did pop another 11 scores using his feet, but Daniels had 10 rushing TDs himself, so Williams doesn't stand out there. And the consensus #2 QB in this year's draft, Drake Mayes, completed 63% of his passes for ~3,600 yards and 24 TDs with 9 scores on the ground.

So... yeah. I don't really see a justification for knocking Daniels down compared to those two. At all. If anything, should KAM decide to move up in this year's draft for a QB, I hope he moves up for Daniels as I think Daniels is showing the best progression among the top 3 QBs in this year's class.

[CharVike]

I think he's the best QB prospect in this class. He has a great arm, movement and is a big dude. That's every physical skill needed. Far above the other 2. Jayden Daniels I don't even know how he is rated as a 1st rounder. He has a weak arm and is thin. Being thin and a runner at the NFL level isn't a good combination. Somebody will break him in half. Here is what I read. Jayden Daniels' main weakness is his arm strength. He has great motion, touch, and accuracy, yet he fails to deliver the ball with zip and is especially unrefined on throws against his body and outside the numbers.Jan 6, 2024. We already have that with Mullens. In the end he will put bodies in the seats. That's the main objective for every owner. Cash is king for them also. Flores will get a chance again. He controlled himself very well for us and put a good product out there with little talent. Perhaps letting the Lions score 30 twice in a short time frame didn't help either. It showed a lack of adjusting. That never looks good.

Daniels has a weak arm? Where did you read/see that?

This is what Walter Football has to say about Daniels:

01/24/24: Daniels completed 72 percent of his passes in 2023 for 3,812 yards, 40 touchdowns and four interceptions. He notched 10 rushing touchdowns as well. Daniels is a dual-threat quarterback who showed improvement as a passer throughout the 2022 season with LSU. He has a quality arm and is a dangerous runner with shocking speed. While he has plenty of room for growth, Daniels has become more consistent with pocket-passing accuracy and reading the field.

Daniels completed 69 percent of his passes in 2022 for 2,913 yards, 17 touchdowns and three interceptions. He also went for 885 yards and 11 touchdowns on the ground. While playing for Arizona State in 2021, Daniels completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,380 yards, 10 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. He was impressive in 2019, showing playmaking ability as a passer and runner while producing points for the Sun Devils, but he did not look as good in the short 2020 season.

I mean, is he a big guy? Not really. But if someone is saying he is too small or has a weak arm, I think they either don't know what they're talking about or are not looking at the tape. A guy doesn't complete 72 percent for almost 4,000 yards and 40 TDs if he can't throw it in all situations.

The two things holding Daniels back from the consensus #1 QB in this draft are his relative size (he's 6'3" but only weighs 185 pounds) and the fact that he only produced at an elite level in his final year of college. Take those two things away, however, and I think Daniels would be the first QB off the board.

By comparison, the consensus #1 QB in this year's draft, Caleb Williams, completed 69% of his passes for ~3,600 yards and 30 TDs. He did pop another 11 scores using his feet, but Daniels had 10 rushing TDs himself, so Williams doesn't stand out there. And the consensus #2 QB in this year's draft, Drake Mayes, completed 63% of his passes for ~3,600 yards and 24 TDs with 9 scores on the ground.

So... yeah. I don't really see a justification for knocking Daniels down compared to those two. At all. If anything, should KAM decide to move up in this year's draft for a QB, I hope he moves up for Daniels as I think Daniels is showing the best progression among the top 3 QBs in this year's class.

This is where I saw the weak arm. Maybe they are dead wrong. One thing I did notice by looking at his games is he played in some games that you really can't even call a game. It was a practice session. Beating Army 62-0 is a joke. Beat Grambling state to death.
When he did play a team like FSU and Bama it was a different story and he couldn't elevate his team to a win. But this scouting report seems ok to me. They point out his positives along with his negatives. They also do a pro comparison which I like to see. Of course no 2 players are exactly the same. But traits do exist. I like Mayes the best but I haven't picked a QB that has done a dam thing. So Maye is probably the worst one. Although I think Mac Jones who I liked won a rookie award. But has since fell off the planet and became another Ponder. It's only draft talk which is fun to have. Caleb I wouldn't touch. He shows me nothing. I read a report and they said he's electric. I have no idea what that is. Plus when I read reports on QBs and one has strong arm and the next has weak arm that tells me there are questions about his arm. You won't find that with Maye. He has a cannon which I like. Of course his accuracy has been questioned in every report. His size is great compared to thin man Daniels. Who knows what they will do at the QB spot. I'm one of the few fans who liked Cousins. But if they don't sign him it's no life changing deal. Reading about us and watching some of the regular youtube post is getting boring. Everything is Cousins. We need to get this OL to a top flight level as Detroit has done. The Pack have done that also but not to the Lions level. That will improve us more than a rookie QB who more than likely will struggle for several seasons and then be a bust or flame out. I've seen that enough in my lifetime.

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2024-nf ... %20numbers.

[VikingLord]

We need to get this OL to a top flight level as Detroit has done. The Pack have done that also but not to the Lions level. That will improve us more than a rookie QB who more than likely will struggle for several seasons and then be a bust or flame out. I've seen that enough in my lifetime.

Thanks for the link to the source. I think there is a difference between a truly weak arm and an average arm, but let's face it, the arm is just the gun - if a guy can't aim or time shots, the gun he's firing with won't compensate for that. A good arm on a good QB is worth it's weight in gold, but an average arm on a good QB is good too. If a QB can't process the field post-snap, can't see guys coming open or can't time his throws when guys do come open, it really doesn't matter much if he can throw it fast and hard.

I like what you wrote about focusing on the interior OL, and I do think this is a good draft to do that. The value at OL will be there in the 2nd-3rd rounds (assuming KAM gets back into the 3rd somehow). The Vikings could pick up a quality center and should be looking for a RG to replace Ingram.

In the 1st, the value that will likely be on the board at 11 will be at DE and CB. If KAM stays there, and barring an unforeseen slide by one of the top QBs, he's going to get a shot at a difference-maker at those positions.

[VikingsVictorious]

I took some time to let the season settle. I've heard rumors that Kirk is seeking 2 years 90 million fully guaranteed. I don't blame him for seeking that, but coming off injury at his age he won't get it. The Vikings need to hold the line at maximum 2 years 70 million. If that doesn't work out let's get one of the top 3 QBs from this draft class. That would probably include trading Jefferson away.

[CharVike]

I took some time to let the season settle. I've heard rumors that Kirk is seeking 2 years 90 million fully guaranteed. I don't blame him for seeking that, but coming off injury at his age he won't get it. The Vikings need to hold the line at maximum 2 years 70 million. If that doesn't work out let's get one of the top 3 QBs from this draft class. That would probably include trading Jefferson away.

Does it really matter what any player gets? I've read many times you can't field a team if you have a highly paid QB. The Chiefs do it. Mahomes gets all the credit and yes he is the best but I wouldn't overlook that defense. They played great in the playoffs and the season. Allowing 7, 10 and holding Allen down. That's top notch playoff D. That takes players and coaching. The Ravens field a strong team across the board. Their D is really good. Held Mahomes down but couldn't win. They also did it. We have never played playoff D like that. Players all recover differently. Davenport couldn't recover this season with a high ankle sprain. That should be 4-6 weeks. If Caleb is as good as many think the Bears will make that pick and should be on a Super Bowl run for at least a decade. Purdy did it year 2 so year 1 should be no problem for this guy. He's the best ever with every skill compared to a 7th rounder with very limited skills. When I saw Purdy play against us I didn't sit there and say this is the best I've ever seen. He tossed up a dead duck down the middle of the field for the game ending interception. Threw it right to our guy. He had other games when he looked like crap. His fans were calling for his head. I read it. They are all backing down now. Too late you jumped off. If I was Kirk I'd go to Atlanta. They will pay him and their core team is much better than ours. But I'm not him.