Do we actually (gulp!) have a decent O-line?

[J. Kapp 11]

You're wrong.

Just because last year the Oline (and entire team was really bad) doesnt mean the Oline is decent now. Once Ingram has a solid year under his belt, I am betting it will be. Oneil is having a bi of an off year, but is still a stud. As is Darrisaw (probably one of the best LT's playing). Once they can open up some holes for Cook and Mattison I will agree more with the OP.

Go look at the overall PFF rankings going into the Miami game.

Darrisaw 3rd of 70 tackles
Bradbury 6th of 35 centers
O'Neill 14th of 70 tackles
Cleveland 20th of 73 guards
Ingram 35th (middle of the pack) of 73 guards

For the entire line, the Vikings rank 15th in pass blocking and 3rd in run blocking.

Per ESPN's win rate, the Vikings are 5th in both pass blocking and run blocking.

So explain to me again how the Vikings aren't only improved, but moving toward being one of the better O-lines in the league.

[IIsweet]

They are improving. However, they were horrible.
I sat in the end zone Sunday and saw the game very differently than from normal, on TV along the side.
I thought that the interior OL was bullied for a lot of the game. Bradbury in particular. However, in the 4th quarter, you could see how the exhausted players for Miami were struggling and we were definitely the more conditioned team for the game and the heat.
We were absolutely dominated in the 1st quarter.
For what it's worth, Darrisaw is going to be a GREAT player very soon. I think that when Ingram starts to develop "man strength" he too will be very good. I feel like I would let Ezra and Bradbury walk when their deals came up. I am not impressed with either. I feel that this line could be exceptional with a more fleet footed QB who can buy time and move around. With a Cousins at QB, you have to be a big bully in the middle. We do not have that yet. Ingram could be but still very young.
Just my observations.
I saw the Miami DL beat up on our interior OL this past Sunday. Christian Wilkins and co. were beating us. Similarly with the Eagles and Fletcher Cox and his crew. This is the weakness of this team on offense. Facing a dominant interior DL.

[JJBreaksRecords]

Just because last year the Oline (and entire team was really bad) doesnt mean the Oline is decent now. Once Ingram has a solid year under his belt, I am betting it will be. Oneil is having a bi of an off year, but is still a stud. As is Darrisaw (probably one of the best LT's playing). Once they can open up some holes for Cook and Mattison I will agree more with the OP.

Go look at the overall PFF rankings going into the Miami game.

Darrisaw 3rd of 70 tackles
Bradbury 6th of 35 centers
O'Neill 14th of 70 tackles
Cleveland 20th of 73 guards
Ingram 35th (middle of the pack) of 73 guards

For the entire line, the Vikings rank 15th in pass blocking and 3rd in run blocking.

Per ESPN's win rate, the Vikings are 5th in both pass blocking and run blocking.

So explain to me again how the Vikings aren't only improved, but moving toward being one of the better O-lines in the league.

So its Cook fault we havent been able to run the ball better?

[J. Kapp 11]

Go look at the overall PFF rankings going into the Miami game.

Darrisaw 3rd of 70 tackles
Bradbury 6th of 35 centers
O'Neill 14th of 70 tackles
Cleveland 20th of 73 guards
Ingram 35th (middle of the pack) of 73 guards

For the entire line, the Vikings rank 15th in pass blocking and 3rd in run blocking.

Per ESPN's win rate, the Vikings are 5th in both pass blocking and run blocking.

So explain to me again how the Vikings aren't only improved, but moving toward being one of the better O-lines in the league.

So its Cook fault we havent been able to run the ball better?

Not exactly the best explanation.

You're giving me your opinion, which is fine. I'm giving you facts. Yes, PFF has its flaws, but it shows that the Vikings are pretty good relative to the rest of the league. ESPN rates them even higher than PFF. They're not the best, but they're young and ascending. And they're demonstrably better than last year, which was the point of the thread to begin with.

If you don't agree, then great. Go on believing we suck at 5-1.

[StumpHunter]

Go look at the overall PFF rankings going into the Miami game.

Darrisaw 3rd of 70 tackles
Bradbury 6th of 35 centers
O'Neill 14th of 70 tackles
Cleveland 20th of 73 guards
Ingram 35th (middle of the pack) of 73 guards

For the entire line, the Vikings rank 15th in pass blocking and 3rd in run blocking.

Per ESPN's win rate, the Vikings are 5th in both pass blocking and run blocking.

So explain to me again how the Vikings aren't only improved, but moving toward being one of the better O-lines in the league.

So its Cook fault we havent been able to run the ball better?

Cook has a 4.8 YPA, but that is inflated in large part because the Vikings have faced some lousy run defenses. NO and Miami were the two best run defenses they have faced and he averaged 3.8 YPA against NO and outside of one run against Miami, he was averaging 2.0 YPA and there was 0 push.

The Oline is looking similar to recent years where they suck against every good front 7 they face and are good against every bad front 7, we just had a long run of bad front 7s coming into the Miami game. As I said before the game, they were a good test for the Oline and the Oline flunked that test, or at least 3/5s of the Oline failed.

O'Neill and Darrisaw were still really good, but the interior of the Oline struggled, particularly Bradbury and Ingram.

4 pressures each given up by those two and Bradbury was the 2nd worst pass blocking center in the NFL on Sunday. Ingram was only the 8th worst guard. Speaking of Ingram, he is dead last in pass blocking efficiency among guards going up against pass rushes that for the most part haven't been very good. Wright is the Vikings' ROY, but it sad a really bad pass blocking Olineman would probably be second.

[JJBreaksRecords]

So its Cook fault we havent been able to run the ball better?

Not exactly the best explanation.

You're giving me your opinion, which is fine. I'm giving you facts. Yes, PFF has its flaws, but it shows that the Vikings are pretty good relative to the rest of the league. ESPN rates them even higher than PFF. They're not the best, but they're young and ascending. And they're demonstrably better than last year, which was the point of the thread to begin with.

If you don't agree, then great. Go on believing we suck at 5-1.

Wow. Where did I say we suck. My point is the Oline isnt as good as some think. Thats it. Once the start run blocking better, we could have a great Oline. We have a few weeks to get better.

[J. Kapp 11]

Not exactly the best explanation.

You're giving me your opinion, which is fine. I'm giving you facts. Yes, PFF has its flaws, but it shows that the Vikings are pretty good relative to the rest of the league. ESPN rates them even higher than PFF. They're not the best, but they're young and ascending. And they're demonstrably better than last year, which was the point of the thread to begin with.

If you don't agree, then great. Go on believing we suck at 5-1.

Wow. Where did I say we suck. My point is the Oline isnt as good as some think. Thats it. Once the start run blocking better, we could have a great Oline. We have a few weeks to get better.

Actually you did.

Just because last year the Oline (and entire team was really bad) doesnt mean the Oline is decent now.

The line not being "decent" sounds a lot like "suck" to me, but forgive me for putting words in your mouth. Either way, you're wrong. The line is more than decent, and the facts back it up.

What we seem to have here is a moving of the goalposts by you. Your quote "we could have a great O-line" is not the standard I mentioned. I never said "great." I said "decent." I would refer you to the title of the thread. Before the season, one Vikings fan after another said, "If only we could have a league-average O-line." Well, we've got our wish, by every metric possible.

As for the so-called lack of a rushing attack, I would remind you that Dalvin Cook is top 6 in rushing yards even without having a breakout game, and he's averaging nearly 5 yards per carry despite having only one long run. So I fail to see what the point is there.

Is the line where I hope it will end up? No. But I believe it's at least league average (i.e. decent) and ascending.

EDIT: Just re-read. Sorry to be a dick. I don't mean to be. Hopefully we can agree that the line, while not "there yet," is better than last year. They still struggle a bit against the really good fronts, especially on the interior, but they seem to be a lot better than the line that featured Oli Udoh at right guard.

[StumpHunter]

Ingram is a LONG way from being able to handle all but the worst interior defensive linemen one on one pass blocking.

Not since Dru Samia has a Vikings guard looked so overmatched.

[IIsweet]

Just so you know... that's Raekwon Davis. 6'7" 335 Beast from 'Bama that is 25 and been in an NFL weight room for 3 years now.
I am saying this because Ingram still has young man strength and will develop in time. I keep watching it, it's brutal and funny all at the same time. I guarantee Mark Schlereth and Marcus Spears have a blast with this clip !!! It is actually an example of a player with MAN strength and NFL coaching vs a rookie that was in a college weight room just 6 months ago.

[CharVike]

Ingram is a LONG way from being able to handle all but the worst interior defensive linemen one on one pass blocking.

Not since Dru Samia has a Vikings guard looked so overmatched.

That's a perfect example of size advantage. Ran through him like he wasn't even there.
One other thing why is Bradbury helping the vet and not the rookie especially when matched up against a guy who dwarfs him. That's either bad coaching or Bradbury didn't want to deal with that monster and get his #### kicked also.

[VikingLord]

For me, the offensive line just has to be competent. The Vikings have two solid tackles, a solid left guard, a good run blocker at center who is spotty at best in pass blocking and will remain that way for the duration of this time with the Vikings and a rookie right guard who isn't yet playing at pace as a pro. It is difficult for any rookie to come into the league and perform at a high level, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if Ingram struggles, and those struggles might last the year.

The real question for me is can the line improve both as a unit and as individual players within that unit? I think we know what the Vikings are going to get from Bradbury. I think Darrisaw, Cleveland and O'Neill will all improve in terms of consistency. Ingram can improve the most yet this year as he gains further experience against NFL-caliber interior defenders. And the entire unit can continue to gain comfort with KOC's scheme.

So yes, I think the line can continue to improve overall. The fact the team is 5-1 and hasn't played it's best yet in any facet is great. Lots to look forward to, and I expect the OL will be a big part of the eventual success of this year's team.

[JJBreaksRecords]

For me, the offensive line just has to be competent. The Vikings have two solid tackles, a solid left guard, a good run blocker at center who is spotty at best in pass blocking and will remain that way for the duration of this time with the Vikings and a rookie right guard who isn't yet playing at pace as a pro. It is difficult for any rookie to come into the league and perform at a high level, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if Ingram struggles, and those struggles might last the year.

The real question for me is can the line improve both as a unit and as individual players within that unit? I think we know what the Vikings are going to get from Bradbury. I think Darrisaw, Cleveland and O'Neill will all improve in terms of consistency. Ingram can improve the most yet this year as he gains further experience against NFL-caliber interior defenders. And the entire unit can continue to gain comfort with KOC's scheme.

So yes, I think the line can continue to improve overall. The fact the team is 5-1 and hasn't played it's best yet in any facet is great. Lots to look forward to, and I expect the OL will be a big part of the eventual success of this year's team.

Couldnt have said it better myself. The Oline will continue to gel though. Ingram isnt very good at all, and both he and Bradbury are getting pushed around. And we are so lucky Cousin hasnt got hurt. But if we want to make a playoff run we will need Cousins. We are dead without him, and so lucky the guy is as durable as they come. Plus hes just a much better passer when guys aernt in his face all the time. With 5 wins, even the most skeptical knows we can probably make a playoff run, with so many teams at 3-3 or worse. Our biggest fear shouldnt be the Bills or tough road games (Packers and Bears at home in freezing weather), it will be if we get injuries. Especially to Cousins. And JJ.

[StumpHunter]

For me, the offensive line just has to be competent.

And it has been that since 2016 for the most part. With a few exceptions, there is not a significant gap in Oline play among teams in the NFL. There are 1 or 2 terrible Olines each season that get dominated by almost every Dline they face and 1 or 2 elite Olines that only get dominated by the best Dlines, but most Olines have success against bad defensive front sevens and struggle against good ones.

In general, if a team faces a healthy 49ers team that Oline is going to get destroyed. If they face the Lions, they will look great. That doesn't mean it is hopeless for a team that faces the 9ers, but it does mean that any team that goes against them needs to scheme ways to minimize their pass rush, not just hope their Oline can hold up.

[Maelstrom88]

The interior still sucks.

https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethe ... y-the-week

[JJBreaksRecords]

The Bills will show just how WEAK our Oline really is. If we fail to the Bills, like we did to the Eagles, even the biggest homers will have to realize we just have an average team that beats up on poor teams.