Vikings vs Fish 10/16/22

[CharVike]

OK look, I don’t like the way the defense is playing either. It’s VERY uncomfortable to watch.

But let me ask you all … if Donatell went to a 4-3 and had the corners press and everything you’re advocating … would this defense, with these personnel, actually be any better?

You’ve got four guys — Harrison Smith, Eric Kendricks, Jordan Hicks and Patrick Peterson — who are clearly on the decline. If PP, for example, tries to press Tyreek Hill and doesn’t get him jammed, what do you think is going to happen? You want to have Danielle Hunter back in a 3-point stance? Not going to happen in a 3-4 … Hunter’s skill set is not that of a 3-4 DE, whose job is to occupy blockers so that others can make tackles.

I don’t know that this defense would be any better in a 4-3 than a 3-4. The talent and athleticism just isn’t there.

What I’d like to see is a) some way to generate pressure, and b) being more multiple. In other words, mix up the front. Maybe 3-4 base and 4 DLinemen on passing downs, with Hunter and Wonnum (12.7% pressure rate) on the ends, and Z. Smith and maybe Tomlinson rushing from the inside.

It seems to me that being multiple might actually spark more pressure.

Another thing is to use the personnel you have in ways that make sense. Last week against the Bears, I recall a 3rd-and-10 play, an obvious passing situation, where Donatell had Hunter dropping into coverage. To me, that just doesn’t make a lick of sense. Go 4-man front and 6 DBs and use the people you have to do what they do best — such as Hunter rushing the passer.

Some things can probably be fixed IF Ed Donatell will not be stubborn. But honestly guys, there’s no way to make Pat Pete or Jordan Hicks faster. There are going to be limitations with this defense.

I want a 4-3 because the last time Hunter was healthy 2019 he had 14.5 sacks which was tied for number 4. Why change position with a guy like that? Comparing PP to a guy with Hill's speed is a stretch. He couldn't keep up with him in his prime years. Now he's 8 yards off so you have a free charging Hill coming straight at him the games up at that point. Or Hill can get a quick dump off and one juke and he's gone. At least with a jam you slow Hill up and give Hunter a chance to get the QB. If the jam is missed then the guy over the top needs to pick Hill up. Bottom line PP as with most CBs will need help over the top because of the speed Hill has. He will need help being 8 yards off also. There's no gain with this scheme. Hunter has been working with Smith on his pass rushing tech from the LBer position. I'm sure he's working on his coverage tech also. He's at step 1.

[J. Kapp 11]

OK look, I don’t like the way the defense is playing either. It’s VERY uncomfortable to watch.

But let me ask you all … if Donatell went to a 4-3 and had the corners press and everything you’re advocating … would this defense, with these personnel, actually be any better?

You’ve got four guys — Harrison Smith, Eric Kendricks, Jordan Hicks and Patrick Peterson — who are clearly on the decline. If PP, for example, tries to press Tyreek Hill and doesn’t get him jammed, what do you think is going to happen? You want to have Danielle Hunter back in a 3-point stance? Not going to happen in a 3-4 … Hunter’s skill set is not that of a 3-4 DE, whose job is to occupy blockers so that others can make tackles.

I don’t know that this defense would be any better in a 4-3 than a 3-4. The talent and athleticism just isn’t there.

What I’d like to see is a) some way to generate pressure, and b) being more multiple. In other words, mix up the front. Maybe 3-4 base and 4 DLinemen on passing downs, with Hunter and Wonnum (12.7% pressure rate) on the ends, and Z. Smith and maybe Tomlinson rushing from the inside.

It seems to me that being multiple might actually spark more pressure.

Another thing is to use the personnel you have in ways that make sense. Last week against the Bears, I recall a 3rd-and-10 play, an obvious passing situation, where Donatell had Hunter dropping into coverage. To me, that just doesn’t make a lick of sense. Go 4-man front and 6 DBs and use the people you have to do what they do best — such as Hunter rushing the passer.

Some things can probably be fixed IF Ed Donatell will not be stubborn. But honestly guys, there’s no way to make Pat Pete or Jordan Hicks faster. There are going to be limitations with this defense.

I want a 4-3 because the last time Hunter was healthy 2019 he had 14.5 sacks which was tied for number 4. Why change position with a guy like that? Comparing PP to a guy with Hill's speed is a stretch. He couldn't keep up with him in his prime years. Now he's 8 yards off so you have a free charging Hill coming straight at him the games up at that point. Or Hill can get a quick dump off and one juke and he's gone. At least with a jam you slow Hill up and give Hunter a chance to get the QB. If the jam is missed then the guy over the top needs to pick Hill up. Bottom line PP as with most CBs will need help over the top because of the speed Hill has. He will need help being 8 yards off also. There's no gain with this scheme. Hunter has been working with Smith on his pass rushing tech from the LBer position. I'm sure he's working on his coverage tech also. He's at step 1.

First, you don't just switch to a 4-3 in the middle of the season if you haven't done it all offseason. You might be able to install it during the bye, but it's far more than just how many linemen are on the field. There are rules for everybody on defense ... if this happens, do this. You can't just throw an entire new playbook at them in an instant. It would be a disaster of missed assignments. My point, which you seem to have overlooked, was that we aren't being multiple. That's something Donatell and KOC touted all offseason. Donatell said we'd use 3 down linemen on some plays, 4 on others, but we really haven't seen much of that.

Second, on earth are you talking about with Hill? If you're a slow CB, you can't try to jam a fast WR. Why? Because all it takes is one time for you to not get the jam, and you have no chance. Do you not understand that Tyreek Hill gets paid a lot of money to win at the line of scrimmage? Playing off is the only way a slow corner has a chance to prevent deep throws. Plus, PP isn't just standing there. He's working leverage and angles. There was a play against New Orleans where they tried a deep fade, and it looked like PP was beaten badly. But he ended up getting a PBU. When you watch the replay, you see that he wasn't beat ... he was simply cutting down the angle. It was a smart veteran play. That said, when you play off, you're very susceptible to SHORT throws, not long. If the receiver is 10 yards in front of you, he's got all kinds of space short. I'm far more worried in this game about Hill catching a slant or another short throw in rhythm and racking up big yards after the catch than I am about him beating the Vikings deep. If there's one thing a shell coverage does is minimize the opportunity for plays over the top.

[makila]

Another thing is to use the personnel you have in ways that make sense. Last week against the Bears, I recall a 3rd-and-10 play, an obvious passing situation, where Donatell had Hunter dropping into coverage. To me, that just doesn’t make a lick of sense. Go 4-man front and 6 DBs and use the people you have to do what they do best — such as Hunter rushing the passer.

Some things can probably be fixed IF Ed Donatell will not be stubborn. But honestly guys, there’s no way to make Pat Pete or Jordan Hicks faster. There are going to be limitations with this defense.

This paragraph about dropping Hunter into coverage made me think of something I heard preseason. I can not recall which Vikings talking head it was. Paraphrasing, they said that part of this scheme, and it was going to frustrate viking fans, was that Hunter and Smith were gonna drop into coverage a lot more than previously and often in this type of situation.

I don't fully understand the intent. Aces in their places has always been my thought.

Like others I am concerned about Mia wr speed. Their defense has been up and down it seems. Couple games they looked great, others they didn't. Their cb Howard had his hamstring wrapped up last time I saw them play. Two weeks ago? Edit: Howard back in lineup after looking. Shucks. Heh.

As said already here, *pressuring a rookie qb is the way to go. Curious what donatell does this week.

We win 24-17 type score.

[Maelstrom88]

Another thing is to use the personnel you have in ways that make sense. Last week against the Bears, I recall a 3rd-and-10 play, an obvious passing situation, where Donatell had Hunter dropping into coverage. To me, that just doesn’t make a lick of sense. Go 4-man front and 6 DBs and use the people you have to do what they do best — such as Hunter rushing the passer.

Some things can probably be fixed IF Ed Donatell will not be stubborn. But honestly guys, there’s no way to make Pat Pete or Jordan Hicks faster. There are going to be limitations with this defense.

This paragraph about dropping Hunter into coverage made me think of something I heard preseason. I can not recall which Vikings talking head it was. Paraphrasing, they said that part of this scheme, and it was going to frustrate viking fans, was that Hunter and Smith were gonna drop into coverage a lot more than previously and often in this type of situation.

I don't fully understand the intent. Aces in their places has always been my thought.

Like others I am concerned about Mia wr speed. Their defense has been up and down it seems. Couple games they looked great, others they didn't. Their cb Howard had his hamstring wrapped up last time I saw them play. Two weeks ago? Edit: Howard back in lineup after looking. Shucks. Heh.

As said already here, pessuring a rookie qb is the way to go. Curious what donatell does this week.

We win 24-17 type score.

This defense made Von Miller look washed up in Denver under Fangio. He then went on to be a pivotal piece in L.A. and is doing well for the Bills. It's not a great scheme.

[CharVike]

I want a 4-3 because the last time Hunter was healthy 2019 he had 14.5 sacks which was tied for number 4. Why change position with a guy like that? Comparing PP to a guy with Hill's speed is a stretch. He couldn't keep up with him in his prime years. Now he's 8 yards off so you have a free charging Hill coming straight at him the games up at that point. Or Hill can get a quick dump off and one juke and he's gone. At least with a jam you slow Hill up and give Hunter a chance to get the QB. If the jam is missed then the guy over the top needs to pick Hill up. Bottom line PP as with most CBs will need help over the top because of the speed Hill has. He will need help being 8 yards off also. There's no gain with this scheme. Hunter has been working with Smith on his pass rushing tech from the LBer position. I'm sure he's working on his coverage tech also. He's at step 1.

First, you don't just switch to a 4-3 in the middle of the season if you haven't done it all offseason. You might be able to install it during the bye, but it's far more than just how many linemen are on the field. There are rules for everybody on defense ... if this happens, do this. You can't just throw an entire new playbook at them in an instant. It would be a disaster of missed assignments. My point, which you seem to have overlooked, was that we aren't being multiple. That's something Donatell and KOC touted all offseason. Donatell said we'd use 3 down linemen on some plays, 4 on others, but we really haven't seen much of that.

Second, on earth are you talking about with Hill? If you're a slow CB, you can't try to jam a fast WR. Why? Because all it takes is one time for you to not get the jam, and you have no chance. Do you not understand that Tyreek Hill gets paid a lot of money to win at the line of scrimmage? Playing off is the only way a slow corner has a chance to prevent deep throws. Plus, PP isn't just standing there. He's working leverage and angles. There was a play against New Orleans where they tried a deep fade, and it looked like PP was beaten badly. But he ended up getting a PBU. When you watch the replay, you see that he wasn't beat ... he was simply cutting down the angle. It was a smart veteran play. That said, when you play off, you're very susceptible to SHORT throws, not long. If the receiver is 10 yards in front of you, he's got all kinds of space short. I'm far more worried in this game about Hill catching a slant or another short throw in rhythm and racking up big yards after the catch than I am about him beating the Vikings deep. If there's one thing a shell coverage does is minimize the opportunity for plays over the top.

We already have a 4-3 because it's part of this multiple front D. Just use it. Hunter is our best D player and his best position is DE in a 4-3 alignment. Matter of fact he's one of the best in the game. I would start there and use that as our base. The best way to help a weak secondary is getting after the QB. Watching that stiff Fields tear us apart should have lite a light in our DC head. He faces a 7th round rookie QB this week. Get after him. Don't give him these back off coverage dump offs.

[SunyP]

I hope Donatell can take advantage of a rookie QB...if not it's time to question his coaching. Could it be a classic example of the "Peter Principle"

[CharVike]

This paragraph about dropping Hunter into coverage made me think of something I heard preseason. I can not recall which Vikings talking head it was. Paraphrasing, they said that part of this scheme, and it was going to frustrate viking fans, was that Hunter and Smith were gonna drop into coverage a lot more than previously and often in this type of situation.

I don't fully understand the intent. Aces in their places has always been my thought.

Like others I am concerned about Mia wr speed. Their defense has been up and down it seems. Couple games they looked great, others they didn't. Their cb Howard had his hamstring wrapped up last time I saw them play. Two weeks ago? Edit: Howard back in lineup after looking. Shucks. Heh.

As said already here, pessuring a rookie qb is the way to go. Curious what donatell does this week.

We win 24-17 type score.

This defense made Von Miller look washed up in Denver under Fangio. He then went on to be a pivotal piece in L.A. and is doing well for the Bills. It's not a great scheme.

Same thing is happening to Hunter. Today you will see a 7th round pick rookie QB look great when he should be a 50 pct completion guy. He will be so scared of Hill and Waddle that our CBs will be back even further. Hunter will be running in space trying to figure out how/who to cover that he'll be exhausted when trying to blitz if he does on obvious passing downs. There is only one way to cover a weak secondary and that's getting after the QB. Get him off balance on throws and then chase the floating duck throw down. We will do the opposite and play a prevent D as if we are starting with a 30 point lead. I hope when this game is over we canned this guy. There has to be somebody out there that understands Hunter is gold as a DL player and that helps the entire defense. If he can't see the obvious what else is he missing?

[Fran the Man]

Watching the game and just don’t know when we might consider changing things up so every pass is not completed. Week after week, just sling it anywhere on the field; completion. So frustrating. Anyone starting to feel like Donatello might not be the guy??

[VikingsFan84]

Watching the game and just don’t know when we might consider changing things up so every pass is not completed. Week after week, just sling it anywhere on the field; completion. So frustrating. Anyone starting to feel like Donatello might not be the guy??

Dontaello sucks, the hire was a mistake from the start, I hope he is gone after the season

[JJBreaksRecords]

KOC and this team are a joke, we play a tough D and we are showing how weak we are. Weaker even than when Zimmer led this team.

[CharVike]

KOC and this team are a joke, we play a tough D and we are showing how weak we are. Weaker even than when Zimmer led this team.

12 total yards in the 1st quarter. Some want consistency with each qtr. I hope it's not this week.

[chicagopurple]

That was our only 1st down….at least we held a 3rd string QB to 3 points…everything i read said the Fins pass defense was weak

[CharVike]

Watching the game and just don’t know when we might consider changing things up so every pass is not completed. Week after week, just sling it anywhere on the field; completion. So frustrating. Anyone starting to feel like Donatello might not be the guy??

Dontaello sucks, the hire was a mistake from the start, I hope he is gone after the season

Why flush a season away. We should put everything we can into it. We have a bye week coming up can him and bring somebody else in. It's not that hard. Zim canned Flip easy enough. It shouldn't take more than a few hours to come up with something better than this.

[StanM]

10-3 Vikings at the half and the Vikings went into the locker room with momentum. I’m not seeing a problem. They made adjustments and appear to have figured things out. Keep that up for another half and we might come out with a win on the road.

[JJBreaksRecords]

10-3 Vikings at the half and the Vikings went into the locker room with momentum. I’m not seeing a problem. They made adjustments and appear to have figured things out. Keep that up for another half and we might come out with a win on the road.

Is your middle name Homer?