Do we actually (gulp!) have a decent O-line?

[CharVike]

As usual, I am the resident jinx.

Just when I talk up the O-line, they go out and stink against the Saints. I'm actually kind of relieved that Cousins got out of the game without getting hurt. Dude got bounced like a pinball this game. The running game struggled, too. Of course, the Saints' front 7 are really good, but this was still a poor performance by the O-line.

Kirk was pressured less this past week than any other week this season, 9th least among QBs in week 4. He was also only hit 3 times (the 3 sacks), which is what he was averaging over the first 3 weeks.


However, the Saints top pass rusher had less pressures than 4 of the Vikings' pass rushers going into the game. By the end of the game only Z was better than Davenport in total pressures, while Cam Jordan increased his pressures from 3 to 9.

So while the numbers indicate it was a good game by the Oline, they made the Saints front 7 look better than they have all season.

You claim he was hit only 3 times. This article paints a different story. https://www.neworleanssaints.com/news/n ... -on-sunday
DEFENSE: A mixed bag for the defense Sunday. Lots of good (the first interception of the season, by safety Tyrann Mathieu, three sacks and enough pressure – eight quarterback hits – to have affected Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins often and physically), but the bad sprouted at an inopportune time. Who knows. I guess a hit is measured differently by people.
O'neil got his #### kicked and chipped in with some penalties. O’Neill was consistently beaten in one-on-ones, as his man was the one getting to Kirk Cousins, putting him on the ground or at least causing him to throw the ball sooner than intended. O’Neill also drew some flags, which was uncharacteristic of the stalwart right tackle. Who knows the reason why O’Neill struggled so badly against the Saints? Maybe they found something in studying him on film, maybe it was the long trip across the sea, or maybe he just had an off day? https://thevikingage.com/2022/10/04/4-d ... -week-4/2/
Our OL will play based on who they face. That's the way it goes. The Rams OL was destroyed by the 49ers and gave up 7 sacks and the Rams scored 0 TDs as the great MVP Stafford was shut down. Looked liked the bad old days again. All QBs go backwards when they are pressured and hit. That's why LOS is so important.
If our current OL goes up against a real good front 7 they will get their #### kicked. It happened Sunday and we couldn't even run the ball effectively. That don't always mean a loss but it don't help either that's for sure.

[Cliff]

As usual, I am the resident jinx.

Just when I talk up the O-line, they go out and stink against the Saints. I'm actually kind of relieved that Cousins got out of the game without getting hurt. Dude got bounced like a pinball this game. The running game struggled, too. Of course, the Saints' front 7 are really good, but this was still a poor performance by the O-line.

Kirk was pressured less this past week than any other week this season, 9th least among QBs in week 4. He was also only hit 3 times (the 3 sacks), which is what he was averaging over the first 3 weeks.

However, the Saints top pass rusher had less pressures than 4 of the Vikings' pass rushers going into the game. By the end of the game only Z was better than Davenport in total pressures, while Cam Jordan increased his pressures from 3 to 9.

So while the numbers indicate it was a good game by the Oline, they made the Saints front 7 look better than they have all season.

Whatever numbers you're looking at that indicate to you it was a good game by the offensive line would immediately make me rethink which stats informed my opinion. You couldn't have watched that game and come away with a good impression of the offensive line.

I think your main problem is relying on some stats that aren't informative enough. Something like "pressures" is so vague as to be a worthless stat. Does that mean Kirk only had 2 seconds and threw it away or did he hold the ball 5 seconds and throw a bomb before pressure got there? Even if all pressures were created equally, which they clearly are not, "number of pressures" needs to be as a percentage of passing plays to be informative enough to be of any use.

Kirk played with people in his face all game and was willing to stand in the pocket and get the ball out despite it. Despite being sacked 3 times he stayed cool and didn't play rattled like he has sometimes in the past. Even the INT wasn't necessarily a bad decision it was just a really athletic play. I wonder how many players would have made it in time.

[StumpHunter]

Kirk was pressured less this past week than any other week this season, 9th least among QBs in week 4. He was also only hit 3 times (the 3 sacks), which is what he was averaging over the first 3 weeks.

However, the Saints top pass rusher had less pressures than 4 of the Vikings' pass rushers going into the game. By the end of the game only Z was better than Davenport in total pressures, while Cam Jordan increased his pressures from 3 to 9.

So while the numbers indicate it was a good game by the Oline, they made the Saints front 7 look better than they have all season.

Whatever numbers you're looking at that indicate to you it was a good game by the offensive line would immediately make me rethink which stats informed my opinion. You couldn't have watched that game and come away with a good impression of the offensive line.

I think your main problem is relying on some stats that aren't informative enough. Something like "pressures" is so vague as to be a worthless stat. Does that mean Kirk only had 2 seconds and threw it away or did he hold the ball 5 seconds and throw a bomb before pressure got there? Even if all pressures were created equally, which they clearly are not, "number of pressures" needs to be as a percentage of passing plays to be informative enough to be of any use.

Kirk played with people in his face all game and was willing to stand in the pocket and get the ball out despite it. Despite being sacked 3 times he stayed cool and didn't play rattled like he has sometimes in the past. Even the INT wasn't necessarily a bad decision it was just a really athletic play. I wonder how many players would have made it in time.

If that were the case the pressure numbers would have been significantly higher. PFF is much more liberal with what they consider a pressure than I am, and will give one out even if it doesn't affect the play. So if Kirk was being impacted by a pass rush on any given play, it would be recorded as a pressure and we would have seen his pressured drop back as being significantly higher.

Pressure is also not the only stat I look at btw. I also look at time to throw (Kirk was 10th shortest, near the bottom for pocket passers) and most of his dropbacks he took longer than 2.5 seconds to throw. He was 10th in highest percentage of throws after 2.5 seconds.

Finally, I will go back and re watch the all 22, since initial impressions of games tend to be clouded by emotion and bias. Almost always when I re watch a game the numbers that don't jive with my initial impression make a lot more sense on the second watch through.

The Oline was not great on Sunday based on who they played, but if they had gone up against a team like SF and had the same results it would have been a positive day for them.

[StumpHunter]

Kirk was pressured less this past week than any other week this season, 9th least among QBs in week 4. He was also only hit 3 times (the 3 sacks), which is what he was averaging over the first 3 weeks.


However, the Saints top pass rusher had less pressures than 4 of the Vikings' pass rushers going into the game. By the end of the game only Z was better than Davenport in total pressures, while Cam Jordan increased his pressures from 3 to 9.

So while the numbers indicate it was a good game by the Oline, they made the Saints front 7 look better than they have all season.

You claim he was hit only 3 times. This article paints a different story. https://www.neworleanssaints.com/news/n ... -on-sunday
DEFENSE: A mixed bag for the defense Sunday. Lots of good (the first interception of the season, by safety Tyrann Mathieu, three sacks and enough pressure – eight quarterback hits – to have affected Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins often and physically), but the bad sprouted at an inopportune time. Who knows. I guess a hit is measured differently by people.
O'neil got his #### kicked and chipped in with some penalties. O’Neill was consistently beaten in one-on-ones, as his man was the one getting to Kirk Cousins, putting him on the ground or at least causing him to throw the ball sooner than intended. O’Neill also drew some flags, which was uncharacteristic of the stalwart right tackle. Who knows the reason why O’Neill struggled so badly against the Saints? Maybe they found something in studying him on film, maybe it was the long trip across the sea, or maybe he just had an off day? https://thevikingage.com/2022/10/04/4-d ... -week-4/2/
Our OL will play based on who they face. That's the way it goes. The Rams OL was destroyed by the 49ers and gave up 7 sacks and the Rams scored 0 TDs as the great MVP Stafford was shut down. Looked liked the bad old days again. All QBs go backwards when they are pressured and hit. That's why LOS is so important.
If our current OL goes up against a real good front 7 they will get their #### kicked. It happened Sunday and we couldn't even run the ball effectively. That don't always mean a loss but it don't help either that's for sure.

Not sure where they are getting QB hits from, because every site I have looked at has it at 3 or 4.

This site has the past game as being the best by the Oline of the season: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /advanced/

O'Neill only gave up 2 pressures, 1 of them a sack. A down game for him, especially with the penalties, but he was still solid. It also doesn't help that Ingram gives him absolutely no help.

[CharVike]

You claim he was hit only 3 times. This article paints a different story. https://www.neworleanssaints.com/news/n ... -on-sunday
DEFENSE: A mixed bag for the defense Sunday. Lots of good (the first interception of the season, by safety Tyrann Mathieu, three sacks and enough pressure – eight quarterback hits – to have affected Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins often and physically), but the bad sprouted at an inopportune time. Who knows. I guess a hit is measured differently by people.
O'neil got his #### kicked and chipped in with some penalties. O’Neill was consistently beaten in one-on-ones, as his man was the one getting to Kirk Cousins, putting him on the ground or at least causing him to throw the ball sooner than intended. O’Neill also drew some flags, which was uncharacteristic of the stalwart right tackle. Who knows the reason why O’Neill struggled so badly against the Saints? Maybe they found something in studying him on film, maybe it was the long trip across the sea, or maybe he just had an off day? https://thevikingage.com/2022/10/04/4-d ... -week-4/2/
Our OL will play based on who they face. That's the way it goes. The Rams OL was destroyed by the 49ers and gave up 7 sacks and the Rams scored 0 TDs as the great MVP Stafford was shut down. Looked liked the bad old days again. All QBs go backwards when they are pressured and hit. That's why LOS is so important.
If our current OL goes up against a real good front 7 they will get their #### kicked. It happened Sunday and we couldn't even run the ball effectively. That don't always mean a loss but it don't help either that's for sure.

Not sure where they are getting QB hits from, because every site I have looked at has it at 3 or 4.

This site has the past game as being the best by the Oline of the season: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /advanced/

O'Neill only gave up 2 pressures, 1 of them a sack. A down game for him, especially with the penalties, but he was still solid. It also doesn't help that Ingram gives him absolutely no help.

I don't even know if anyone knows what a hit is or how it's determined to be a hit. A sack is known because it ends the play. Maybe it's some type of fantasy football stat that is made up. Our ground game sucked and we couldn't manage 4 yards a pop. That tells me all I need to know. The Rams OL was abused by the 49ers and gave up 7 sacks. Who knows how many hits. You can get a sack with a hand trip tackle. No hit involved unless you count the swipe of a hand against a calf as a hit. I seen sacks where the QB falls down on his own and is touched. That could be considered a hit. A hit is vague.

[J. Kapp 11]

Saw a video breakdown of Christian Darrisaw against the Bears.

Dude had SIX PANCAKE BLOCKS in that one game alone. Five of them were in pass protection against defensive linemen. Absolute domination. And the knock on him was that he supposedly didn’t have a killer instinct. Ended up with a 90+ PFF grade in pass pro.

This young man can play. He’s come so far since the end of last season.

One more amazing nugget … Ezra Cleveland graded out even better than Darrisaw against the Bears!

[Maelstrom88]

Saw a video breakdown of Christian Darrisaw against the Bears.

Dude had SIX PANCAKE BLOCKS in that one game alone. Five of them were in pass protection against defensive linemen. Absolute domination. And the knock on him was that he supposedly didn’t have a killer instinct. Ended up with a 90+ PFF grade in pass pro.

This young man can play. He’s come so far since the end of last season.

One more amazing nugget … Ezra Cleveland graded out even better than Darrisaw against the Bears!

It sure is nice to have these oline picks pan out for once.

[CharVike]

Saw a video breakdown of Christian Darrisaw against the Bears.

Dude had SIX PANCAKE BLOCKS in that one game alone. Five of them were in pass protection against defensive linemen. Absolute domination. And the knock on him was that he supposedly didn’t have a killer instinct. Ended up with a 90+ PFF grade in pass pro.

This young man can play. He’s come so far since the end of last season.

One more amazing nugget … Ezra Cleveland graded out even better than Darrisaw against the Bears!

It sure is nice to have these oline picks pan out for once.

That is a good deal. They are both young players also.

[Maelstrom88]

It sure is nice to have these oline picks pan out for once.

That is a good deal. They are both young players also.

Yeah now we just have to worry about locking them up. That's a long way away though.

[Maelstrom88]

[J. Kapp 11]

This guy’s breakdowns are epic. For those of you who like to get into the weeds, I can’t recommend these highly enough. Hadn’t seen this one. Thanks!

[Maelstrom88]

This guy’s breakdowns are epic. For those of you who like to get into the weeds, I can’t recommend these highly enough. Hadn’t seen this one. Thanks!

The initial quickness and recovery at 12:21 in the video is very impressive.

[JJBreaksRecords]

Still a NO

[J. Kapp 11]

Still a NO

You're wrong.

[JJBreaksRecords]

Still a NO

You're wrong.

Just because last year the Oline (and entire team was really bad) doesnt mean the Oline is decent now. Once Ingram has a solid year under his belt, I am betting it will be. Oneil is having a bi of an off year, but is still a stud. As is Darrisaw (probably one of the best LT's playing). Once they can open up some holes for Cook and Mattison I will agree more with the OP.