Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:17 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:19 pm

GMs that blow teams up are GMs of teams that have next to no talent (Chicago, the jets, Houston, etc). So that doesn’t make any sense.

As for the games, was the 2nd half of the eagles game anything for the eagles to brag about? No. But they still dominated us. They still played good defense. Just like we did against GB. Again, if you see the eagles game as us getting dominated but don’t see us dominating the packers in week 1, then idk what to tell you other than you’re just a negative fan that can’t help yourself from bitc#ing
Maybe. But at least I didnt put my faith in Ricky and Cousins like you. And whats that gotten you? A playoff game or two and a crap roster. Our roster is too d*m old and Ricky boi is to blame for signing our aging players. I didnt want Rick here after the Dolphins fired his bum. He just burned us for many years with no results. But I bet you loved him. Hes like Matt Millen with the Lions. I'd rather be a bitc# than an idiot anyday. Didnt anyone ever teach you how to play well with others? :govikes:
I did like Rick. I’ll be the first to admit. But in the end the downfall of this team the last two years was more on zimmer than anyone. Hell former offensive lineman Alex Boone who knew and played for BOTH of these guys even said it was Zim. Look at all the players that have came out throwing Zim under the bus. Regardless, you seem to have a lot of thoughts but very little answers. Instead it’s just constant complaining from you. I’m honestly not sure where you think blowing this roster up would’ve solved problems. Again, this roster has much more talent than teams like the bears who only had to get rid of Allen Robinson and Kalil Mack to reset their roster. What are you going to do? Just cut every good player and leave JJ by himself? And then what? He wants out after his rookie contract because we have nobody here? Good plan GM, I’m sure that would’ve worked
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Husker Vike »

The next two games will tell a lot more of this seasons story, we usually play the Lions well and then up is New Orleans, who I think we can match up well with. Every team in our division is 1-1, lets not panic just yet,
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by VikingsFan84 »

Husker Vike wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:46 pm The next two games will tell a lot more of this seasons story, we usually play the Lions well and then up is New Orleans, who I think we can match up well with. Every team in our division is 1-1, lets not panic just yet,
Vikings have not matched up with Saints well lately, Vikings got embarrassed by Saints 52-33 two years ago
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by CharVike »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:57 am
Husker Vike wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:46 pm The next two games will tell a lot more of this seasons story, we usually play the Lions well and then up is New Orleans, who I think we can match up well with. Every team in our division is 1-1, lets not panic just yet,
Vikings have not matched up with Saints well lately, Vikings got embarrassed by Saints 52-33 two years ago
Saints have a very good D and that's what makes them tough for any team. Their problem as is with half or more of NFL teams is QB. Winston is a turn over machine. He will give the ball back and it seems to happen in streaks. He gave away their game last week. Our team will have a tough time because they have a very good secondary. They will put their best CB on JJ and that will be it for him. With him shut down they will need to look for slow footed Adam. That's not good either. The Bucs with the best QB ever only put up 20 points thanks to help from interceptions. We might score 10 points. Plus we are on the road. Our D needs to go in there and hold them to a single digit score. What's the chance of that? Basically zero.
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by StanM »

cmoss84 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:45 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:37 pm

We literally got dominated by the Eagles, not beat, dominated. That doesn't happen to a contender week 2.
Any team can get dominated any given week. Not likely for some, but there is always a possibility. I am glad we ate humble pie week 2 so we can fix some things and get momentum going.

Rams lost 31-10 to Bills, Cardinals lost 44-21 to Chiefs, and a lot of border line playoff teams have lost/tied to some bad teams. The NFL seems to be a little top heavy at this point, which means anyone can have a decent season, get hot at the right time, and make a playoff run...

The Eagles appear to be for real. Bills and Chiefs probably two best teams before them. But who is 4-10?
Philly is the kind of place where an opponent can take a beat down when they’re playing well and the crowd gets into it. The only way to win after getting behind a couple scores there is to make a few big plays and quiet the crowd. They never did that on Monday night with all the mental errors and INT’s. I don’t think the Eagles are that good or that the Vikings are that bad. It was one of those meltowns that only ends when the final whistle blows. 1-1 isn’t a bad start and losing to Philly on Monday night in their building week two of a new system with a lot of new players isn’t the end of the season. On to week 3.
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:44 pm
JJBreaksRecords wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:17 pm

Maybe. But at least I didnt put my faith in Ricky and Cousins like you. And whats that gotten you? A playoff game or two and a crap roster. Our roster is too d*m old and Ricky boi is to blame for signing our aging players. I didnt want Rick here after the Dolphins fired his bum. He just burned us for many years with no results. But I bet you loved him. Hes like Matt Millen with the Lions. I'd rather be a bitc# than an idiot anyday. Didnt anyone ever teach you how to play well with others? :govikes:
I did like Rick. I’ll be the first to admit. But in the end the downfall of this team the last two years was more on zimmer than anyone. Hell former offensive lineman Alex Boone who knew and played for BOTH of these guys even said it was Zim. Look at all the players that have came out throwing Zim under the bus. Regardless, you seem to have a lot of thoughts but very little answers. Instead it’s just constant complaining from you. I’m honestly not sure where you think blowing this roster up would’ve solved problems. Again, this roster has much more talent than teams like the bears who only had to get rid of Allen Robinson and Kalil Mack to reset their roster. What are you going to do? Just cut every good player and leave JJ by himself? And then what? He wants out after his rookie contract because we have nobody here? Good plan GM, I’m sure that would’ve worked
The problems now aren't related at all to Zimmer, but are related to the players Rick brought in. Struggling against the run, inability to stop teams from scoring at the half, struggles to maintain drives and avoid 3 and outs are all rearing their ugly heads yet again with a completely new coaching staff.

Looking at what Zimmer did is meaningless and pretty petty to be honest now, but the team is still feeling Rick's impact. Hopefully ownership finally sees the light and lets the new GM gut this team, dumping guys who are not going to be a part of a team that hopefully competes for a SB in 2024 and beyond. Thielen, Cook, Kendricks, and Smith were great players for the Vikings, but we cannot continue to pay them like they are in their primes.
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Foreman44 »

My two cents.

Cousins showed what I have said many times, He can get the passing yardage in many games..,

Here is the But,,,,,when you are down like we were against the Eagles, HE IS NOY GOING to pull the game out, like Rodgers, Favre, and others.l

If they are to make the play offs . Our defense better hold the other team down. Kurt will not bring it back
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by psjordan »

Having coached a LOT of teams with many types of players, talents and personalities, I can tell you coaches CAN teach old dogs new tricks.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need to whack some vets off this roster. This is obviously not the time to do it however. The staff will need to make the best they can of it for the remainder of this season.

Kirk can learn to read defenses better, both pre-snap and in first few seconds of the play. The question is do we have anyone on staff that can make that happen? Does KOC know enough and have enough teaching tools at his disposal to make that happen? Most people do not lose their capacity to learn, and Kirk is no different. My complete guess under the prior regime is that he was told to "get better", which is hardly a robust teaching environment. I don't think the odds are in Kirk's favor, but I can see him at least making progress this season. Probably just enough to get a maddening extension ... :D

Irv Smith roils me to be honest. For a guy his size and speed, he runs terrible routes with zero separation IMO. He's not much of a blocker either. Can this staff teach him to be better? I have hopes they can, but it may boil down to how hard he wants to work at it. Right now he's an early 2023 cut running around in a purple uniform.

HSmith and PPeterson are crafty, smart and now, sadly, slow veterans. We do not have enough young bucks in the secondary stepping up to the plate that will allow us to continue to play with those two back there. Bynum seems to be a lost freelancer. Dantzler makes three good plays in a row and then decides to back off AJ Brown for a critical reception (he was benched shortly thereafter). This secondary needs to get younger and smarter, but that's not likely to happen this year. Yes HS and PP can still make plays, but they cannot carry the group, especially if the remaining DB's continue to make sub-optimal decisions.

And for all the talk about Donatell sticking to the zone in the first half, where is the experience of HS and PP? And Kendricks? Did they talk to the DC about what they thought might work? If they did and he ignored them, that's a big problem. If they didn't provide any input, that's a big problem.

Our dismal performance on third down will be the death of this team if it continues. This is where KOC has to earn the big bucks.

Fixing, or at least adequately addressing the above will be very difficult in a short week with the re-born Lions coming to town. I am glad I'm not an oddsmaker because I have absolutely no clue how this game will go. We're favored, but I have no idea why other than home field. We are certainly not a proven commodity in any aspect other than punting.
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:00 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:44 pm

I did like Rick. I’ll be the first to admit. But in the end the downfall of this team the last two years was more on zimmer than anyone. Hell former offensive lineman Alex Boone who knew and played for BOTH of these guys even said it was Zim. Look at all the players that have came out throwing Zim under the bus. Regardless, you seem to have a lot of thoughts but very little answers. Instead it’s just constant complaining from you. I’m honestly not sure where you think blowing this roster up would’ve solved problems. Again, this roster has much more talent than teams like the bears who only had to get rid of Allen Robinson and Kalil Mack to reset their roster. What are you going to do? Just cut every good player and leave JJ by himself? And then what? He wants out after his rookie contract because we have nobody here? Good plan GM, I’m sure that would’ve worked
The problems now aren't related at all to Zimmer, but are related to the players Rick brought in. Struggling against the run, inability to stop teams from scoring at the half, struggles to maintain drives and avoid 3 and outs are all rearing their ugly heads yet again with a completely new coaching staff.
Huh? Struggling against the run? So Rick Spielman was responsible in signing Zadarius Smith, Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard and Jordan Hicks and for them "struggling against the run"? That makes zero sense.

Inability to stop teams at the half? Like what does this stuff have anything to do with Spielman? He drafted players. He doesnt coach them or teach them. That was Zimmer's job. It is now KOC's job. Not Kwesi's. Not sure where you're even trying to go here. Kwesi didnt need to keep anything that Spielman had here. He chose to. Some he let go (mainly guys from last years draft), but he kept most from the 2021 roster.

What is still insanely comical to me, is we had one great game and one bad game. And here you are again acting like the season is over, it's all the same mistakes, yata yata yata. For christ sake let the season play out. It's literally been two games.
but we cannot continue to pay them like they are in their primes.
Agreed that needs to change soon.
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

Foreman44 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:45 am

If they are to make the play offs . Our defense better hold the other team down. Kurt will not bring it back
I mean in all fairness he did take them down in OT, on the road against a SB favorite and won the game. So to be honest I dont really buy that. Anything can happen on any given week
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:35 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:00 am
The problems now aren't related at all to Zimmer, but are related to the players Rick brought in. Struggling against the run, inability to stop teams from scoring at the half, struggles to maintain drives and avoid 3 and outs are all rearing their ugly heads yet again with a completely new coaching staff.
Huh? Struggling against the run? So Rick Spielman was responsible in signing Zadarius Smith, Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard and Jordan Hicks and for them "struggling against the run"? That makes zero sense.

Inability to stop teams at the half? Like what does this stuff have anything to do with Spielman? He drafted players. He doesnt coach them or teach them. That was Zimmer's job. It is now KOC's job. Not Kwesi's. Not sure where you're even trying to go here. Kwesi didnt need to keep anything that Spielman had here. He chose to. Some he let go (mainly guys from last years draft), but he kept most from the 2021 roster.

What is still insanely comical to me, is we had one great game and one bad game. And here you are again acting like the season is over, it's all the same mistakes, yata yata yata. For christ sake let the season play out. It's literally been two games.
Game 1's are much worse at predicting season success historically than any other game during the season for some very obvious reasons. In fact, if the opposite had happened and the Packers had crushed the Vikings I would have spent most of the week on here talking people off the ledge, pointing out all the teams that sucked week 1 but turned things around after words. You have a bunch of players who haven't played real football in almost a year, no one has film on any offenses or defenses yet, and fluky things can happen.

It also doesn't help that the Packers under Lafleur have historically sucked offensively week 1, with the one exception being the week 1 of 2020 when they beat up on a practice squad roster that was our 2020 defense. Or that some metrics pointed to the success that week as being somewhat of an aberration. DVOA for instance (really VOA at this point), had our defense ranked at 18th and the offense was did very little outside of passes to a wide open JJ. That type of offensive success was not maintainable and teams were not going to watch what GB did and do the same.

I do think this team is not as bad as that defeat Monday says we are, but neither are they as good as the previous week implied. They are somewhere in between, which is good enough for the Wilfs, but not good enough for a fan base that has never seen their team win a SB. It is an okay team right up against the cap with little hope of big improvements next season.
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by VikingLord »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:14 pm This actually DOES happen to good/great teams way more often than you think. What matters is how often you let those games happen. So far the Vikings let it happen once. Nobody is denying that. But to say it never happens to good teams any week is, no offense, laughable
Fair enough, and no offense taken.

Still, you pointed out the Packers last year as an example of a good team that did suffer an early season blowout loss, and while it is true they were a good team, they ultimately didn't make the Super Bowl and haven't even appeared in one despite going 13-3 what, the last 3 seasons?

So while a good team might get blown out, the fact that any team gets blown out does seem to indicate that team may have some flaws that, while not fatal against most competition, can be exploited and will be fatal against better teams or teams that can expose the flaws.

Either way, blowout losses indicate something is missing in my experience. You're correct that it is important to show an ability to bounce back and perform, but I've just seen too many games like this last one from Cousins and the defense over the last several years to believe the new regime has properly identified and fixed the underlying issues that have plagued them on the field and especially in big games.
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Foreman44 »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:51 pm
Foreman44 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:45 am

If they are to make the play offs . Our defense better hold the other team down. Kurt will not bring it back
I mean in all fairness he did take them down in OT, on the road against a SB favorite and won the game. So to be honest I dont really buy that. Anything can happen on any given week
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut occasionally. How many felt comfy cousins pulling out the iggles game. Did he even come close to bringing it back. I believe he threw two picks.
I bet when Brady, favre, mahomes,Rodgers, others. If they are down two tds. Do they feel there QBs can pullnitbout. Yes. Do we have that in cousins?
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

VikingLord wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:35 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:14 pm This actually DOES happen to good/great teams way more often than you think. What matters is how often you let those games happen. So far the Vikings let it happen once. Nobody is denying that. But to say it never happens to good teams any week is, no offense, laughable
Fair enough, and no offense taken.

Still, you pointed out the Packers last year as an example of a good team that did suffer an early season blowout loss, and while it is true they were a good team, they ultimately didn't make the Super Bowl and haven't even appeared in one despite going 13-3 what, the last 3 seasons?

So while a good team might get blown out, the fact that any team gets blown out does seem to indicate that team may have some flaws that, while not fatal against most competition, can be exploited and will be fatal against better teams or teams that can expose the flaws.

Either way, blowout losses indicate something is missing in my experience. You're correct that it is important to show an ability to bounce back and perform, but I've just seen too many games like this last one from Cousins and the defense over the last several years to believe the new regime has properly identified and fixed the underlying issues that have plagued them on the field and especially in big games.
Ok if you want to use the packers as not making the super bowl fine. But I also named both teams in the super bowl last year. One losing to the jets and bears last year and the other losing 3 games in a row and winning the SB still. So again it happens to many good to great teams and it happens more often than you think
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Re: Vikings (1-0) at Eagles (1-0) MNF Week 2

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:00 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:35 pm

Huh? Struggling against the run? So Rick Spielman was responsible in signing Zadarius Smith, Harrison Phillips, Jonathan Bullard and Jordan Hicks and for them "struggling against the run"? That makes zero sense.

Inability to stop teams at the half? Like what does this stuff have anything to do with Spielman? He drafted players. He doesnt coach them or teach them. That was Zimmer's job. It is now KOC's job. Not Kwesi's. Not sure where you're even trying to go here. Kwesi didnt need to keep anything that Spielman had here. He chose to. Some he let go (mainly guys from last years draft), but he kept most from the 2021 roster.

What is still insanely comical to me, is we had one great game and one bad game. And here you are again acting like the season is over, it's all the same mistakes, yata yata yata. For christ sake let the season play out. It's literally been two games.
Game 1's are much worse at predicting season success historically than any other game during the season for some very obvious reasons. In fact, if the opposite had happened and the Packers had crushed the Vikings I would have spent most of the week on here talking people off the ledge, pointing out all the teams that sucked week 1 but turned things around after words. You have a bunch of players who haven't played real football in almost a year, no one has film on any offenses or defenses yet, and fluky things can happen.

It also doesn't help that the Packers under Lafleur have historically sucked offensively week 1, with the one exception being the week 1 of 2020 when they beat up on a practice squad roster that was our 2020 defense. Or that some metrics pointed to the success that week as being somewhat of an aberration. DVOA for instance (really VOA at this point), had our defense ranked at 18th and the offense was did very little outside of passes to a wide open JJ. That type of offensive success was not maintainable and teams were not going to watch what GB did and do the same.

I do think this team is not as bad as that defeat Monday says we are, but neither are they as good as the previous week implied. They are somewhere in between, which is good enough for the Wilfs, but not good enough for a fan base that has never seen their team win a SB. It is an okay team right up against the cap with little hope of big improvements next season.
Week 1 games are hard to judge but week 2 is not? Again, still not making sense. This is a 17 game season. As I’ve said before, this is a game that could haunt us but it’s also a game we could quickly forget about if they go back to playing how they did week 1. We simply have to wait and see much further into the season to get a true judgement. Again, the rams lost 3 games in a row last year. Went into a huge slump and looked like a lower end playoff team during that span at best. But they turned it around and got hot at the right time. We have to see how this team plays up to the bye week. A lot of winnable games in that stretch with Miami being our toughest. But to count them out right now is very premature. Im not saying this is the next super bowl champion team but judging this team off 2 games with a new staff and much more complicated scheme, that’s 100% premature
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