The Top 20 2022 Minnesota Vikings

[VikingLord]

The less this team passes, the better the offense does. That will not change just because there is a new HC since our QB is by far at his best running PA, Cook is still a very good RB and the Oline is made up of guys who are at their best run blocking. Hopefully O'Connell recognizes that and doesn't move away from the strength of his personnel.

There is nothing wrong with that, although I think you're over-generalizing things a bit. It isn't less passing per se, but better coordination between the passing game and running game that seems to be the key to the offense's success. In other words, as long as the OC doesn't try to put the offense on Cousins' shoulders, it works fine. When Cousins is allowed to play off the running game and the defense has to play him honest, he can be effective.

The point about KOC recognizing what works is a good one and whether he understands that should become apparent pretty quickly. If the offense hums early, that will be a great sign he gets it and can work with the talent he has, because the talent is very good. If it doesn't and we see the Vikings trying to either do too much or not executing well, it will be telling to hear what KOC has to say about that in post game pressers.

To sum it up, a horse is a horse. Does KOC recognize the horse he's got, and can he figure out how to race it effectively?

[VikingsVictorious]

I'm tired and I'm sure many others are also tired of every thread turning into how much Cousins sucks talk. Same stuff from a long time ago is repeated over and over. It's a turn the page year and hopefully this staff will get the most out of every player and use them in a way that takes advantage of their skills. That's what needs to happen or we are done.

I feel like it could have been more of a "turn-the-page-year" than it has actually been. It started off well with the Wilfs making major changes at the top, but then kind of petered out.

Being a Vikings fan requires a great degree of hope seemingly every year.

Still, Stump isn't the only person on this board who has doubts about whether Kirk Cousins is capable of justifying that hope.

As far as stuff being repeated from a long time ago, it's not hard to see why that is the case. I mean, as long as the Vikings keep the same players year after year, those same players are going to be the topic of discussion. If there is fatigue around those players and that discussion, that's more a reflection of the duration of those contracts. In the case of Cousins, we're going on what, 4 solid years now? He first played for them in 2018 and it's now 2022 and he's under contract for 2023 for sure. In that time the Vikings made the playoffs once and have not won a division title. They've been decidedly average.

That isn't all Cousins' fault but he hasn't been part of some major resurgence or even some arc of general improvement. They've tread water every year he's been here. If Zimmer was what held them back, that should become apparent fairly quickly.

All valid points VikingLord and I know that sometimes conversation will stray from the original construct....... BUT Stump will find a way to make every conversation stray from the original construct into a debate about Cousins. There's no other player on the team that this happens with and pretty much nobody else hijacking the threads. Clearly as the QB Cousins will be talked about more than any other player .................BUT................

[StumpHunter]

I feel like it could have been more of a "turn-the-page-year" than it has actually been. It started off well with the Wilfs making major changes at the top, but then kind of petered out.

Being a Vikings fan requires a great degree of hope seemingly every year.

Still, Stump isn't the only person on this board who has doubts about whether Kirk Cousins is capable of justifying that hope.

As far as stuff being repeated from a long time ago, it's not hard to see why that is the case. I mean, as long as the Vikings keep the same players year after year, those same players are going to be the topic of discussion. If there is fatigue around those players and that discussion, that's more a reflection of the duration of those contracts. In the case of Cousins, we're going on what, 4 solid years now? He first played for them in 2018 and it's now 2022 and he's under contract for 2023 for sure. In that time the Vikings made the playoffs once and have not won a division title. They've been decidedly average.

That isn't all Cousins' fault but he hasn't been part of some major resurgence or even some arc of general improvement. They've tread water every year he's been here. If Zimmer was what held them back, that should become apparent fairly quickly.

All valid points VikingLord and I know that sometimes conversation will stray from the original construct....... BUT Stump will find a way to make every conversation stray from the original construct into a debate about Cousins. There's no other player on the team that this happens with and pretty much nobody else hijacking the threads. Clearly as the QB Cousins will be talked about more than any other player .................BUT................

Apparently moderation on this board doesn't exist unless you want to discuss your displeasure over the Vikings drafting a guy who probably did something disgusting to children.

I find it amusing , but others might be sick of every discussion evolving into you voicing your displeasure of someone having a different opinion than your own. Is that like the 6th post in a row of you attacking the poster and not the post?

[CharVike]

I'm tired and I'm sure many others are also tired of every thread turning into how much Cousins sucks talk. Same stuff from a long time ago is repeated over and over. It's a turn the page year and hopefully this staff will get the most out of every player and use them in a way that takes advantage of their skills. That's what needs to happen or we are done.

I feel like it could have been more of a "turn-the-page-year" than it has actually been. It started off well with the Wilfs making major changes at the top, but then kind of petered out.

Being a Vikings fan requires a great degree of hope seemingly every year.

Still, Stump isn't the only person on this board who has doubts about whether Kirk Cousins is capable of justifying that hope.

As far as stuff being repeated from a long time ago, it's not hard to see why that is the case. I mean, as long as the Vikings keep the same players year after year, those same players are going to be the topic of discussion. If there is fatigue around those players and that discussion, that's more a reflection of the duration of those contracts. In the case of Cousins, we're going on what, 4 solid years now? He first played for them in 2018 and it's now 2022 and he's under contract for 2023 for sure. In that time the Vikings made the playoffs once and have not won a division title. They've been decidedly average.

That isn't all Cousins' fault but he hasn't been part of some major resurgence or even some arc of general improvement. They've tread water every year he's been here. If Zimmer was what held them back, that should become apparent fairly quickly.

I don't care if people have doubts about a player just don't hijack every thread to voice that feeling. Many here felt that 2017 team was great because we made the Champ game. We didn't even show up for that game and we were destroyed. That should have opened some eyes. In 2018 many bad things happened to our team. Our OC Shurmur left, our OL coach Sparano died right before camp. Pat Elf was a great rookie center in 2017 and in 2018 he got hurt and sucked ever since. Griff had his problems. We lost G Easton in camp. In 2020 and 2021 our D wasn't very good. It could be argued that in 2020 it was the worst we ever had. Our OL has been bad for a long time. I don't see that changing this year. When a team loses the LOS battle they typically don't win.
This new GM that we hired hasn't done a thing to make me feel he's above the rest. I felt he screwed up in the draft by trading away from the talent. IMO Hamilton was the guy to be picked for the safety position and he was there for us. He's a different type of player at 6' 4" and great sideline to sideline in game speed. How do you throw over that guy. If we stay healthy we will compete with the Packers for the title. Cousins beat them last year and when he missed we were beaten badly because we couldn't score and our D sucked as it did the 1st game.

[JJBreaksRecords]

I feel like it could have been more of a "turn-the-page-year" than it has actually been. It started off well with the Wilfs making major changes at the top, but then kind of petered out.

Being a Vikings fan requires a great degree of hope seemingly every year.

Still, Stump isn't the only person on this board who has doubts about whether Kirk Cousins is capable of justifying that hope.

As far as stuff being repeated from a long time ago, it's not hard to see why that is the case. I mean, as long as the Vikings keep the same players year after year, those same players are going to be the topic of discussion. If there is fatigue around those players and that discussion, that's more a reflection of the duration of those contracts. In the case of Cousins, we're going on what, 4 solid years now? He first played for them in 2018 and it's now 2022 and he's under contract for 2023 for sure. In that time the Vikings made the playoffs once and have not won a division title. They've been decidedly average.

That isn't all Cousins' fault but he hasn't been part of some major resurgence or even some arc of general improvement. They've tread water every year he's been here. If Zimmer was what held them back, that should become apparent fairly quickly.

I don't care if people have doubts about a player just don't hijack every thread to voice that feeling. Many here felt that 2017 team was great because we made the Champ game. We didn't even show up for that game and we were destroyed. That should have opened some eyes. In 2018 many bad things happened to our team. Our OC Shurmur left, our OL coach Sparano died right before camp. Pat Elf was a great rookie center in 2017 and in 2018 he got hurt and sucked ever since. Griff had his problems. We lost G Easton in camp. In 2020 and 2021 our D wasn't very good. It could be argued that in 2020 it was the worst we ever had. Our OL has been bad for a long time. I don't see that changing this year. When a team loses the LOS battle they typically don't win.
This new GM that we hired hasn't done a thing to make me feel he's above the rest. I felt he screwed up in the draft by trading away from the talent. IMO Hamilton was the guy to be picked for the safety position and he was there for us. He's a different type of player at 6' 4" and great sideline to sideline in game speed. How do you throw over that guy. If we stay healthy we will compete with the Packers for the title. Cousins beat them last year and when he missed we were beaten badly because we couldn't score and our D sucked as it did the 1st game.

Cousins didnt beat them. Remember its a team sport. And I agree with you on the Hamilton part.

[CharVike]

I don't care if people have doubts about a player just don't hijack every thread to voice that feeling. Many here felt that 2017 team was great because we made the Champ game. We didn't even show up for that game and we were destroyed. That should have opened some eyes. In 2018 many bad things happened to our team. Our OC Shurmur left, our OL coach Sparano died right before camp. Pat Elf was a great rookie center in 2017 and in 2018 he got hurt and sucked ever since. Griff had his problems. We lost G Easton in camp. In 2020 and 2021 our D wasn't very good. It could be argued that in 2020 it was the worst we ever had. Our OL has been bad for a long time. I don't see that changing this year. When a team loses the LOS battle they typically don't win.
This new GM that we hired hasn't done a thing to make me feel he's above the rest. I felt he screwed up in the draft by trading away from the talent. IMO Hamilton was the guy to be picked for the safety position and he was there for us. He's a different type of player at 6' 4" and great sideline to sideline in game speed. How do you throw over that guy. If we stay healthy we will compete with the Packers for the title. Cousins beat them last year and when he missed we were beaten badly because we couldn't score and our D sucked as it did the 1st game.

Cousins didnt beat them. Remember its a team sport. And I agree with you on the Hamilton part.

Remember the QB gets the win or loss. I didn't make that up it's been there a long time. Brady gets credit for Super Bowl wins and loses. Of course the whole team was involved with both of those.

[VikingsVictorious]

I don't care if people have doubts about a player just don't hijack every thread to voice that feeling. Many here felt that 2017 team was great because we made the Champ game. We didn't even show up for that game and we were destroyed. That should have opened some eyes. In 2018 many bad things happened to our team. Our OC Shurmur left, our OL coach Sparano died right before camp. Pat Elf was a great rookie center in 2017 and in 2018 he got hurt and sucked ever since. Griff had his problems. We lost G Easton in camp. In 2020 and 2021 our D wasn't very good. It could be argued that in 2020 it was the worst we ever had. Our OL has been bad for a long time. I don't see that changing this year. When a team loses the LOS battle they typically don't win.
This new GM that we hired hasn't done a thing to make me feel he's above the rest. I felt he screwed up in the draft by trading away from the talent. IMO Hamilton was the guy to be picked for the safety position and he was there for us. He's a different type of player at 6' 4" and great sideline to sideline in game speed. How do you throw over that guy. If we stay healthy we will compete with the Packers for the title. Cousins beat them last year and when he missed we were beaten badly because we couldn't score and our D sucked as it did the 1st game.

Cousins didnt beat them. Remember its a team sport. And I agree with you on the Hamilton part.

Total agreement on first two sentences. Disagreement on 3rd. Cine is going to be The Man. Can we please stop discussing the one player though. If we're done giving our top 20 rankings than let this thread die. I'm not posting on this one again UNLESS there's an actual top 20 player ranking to discuss.

[J. Kapp 11]

I notice how you completely ignore the rest of the post. I guess nothing ever changes around here.

It is just that we have already been over all of this before and in the end, how much the offense scores and helps the team win should be all that matters.

However, if you insist:

During that stretch you think Cousins was doing really well, the Vikings faced exactly 1 top 10 scoring defense and were annihilated by it. The other D's they faced?

26th (4 wins)
22nd (6 Wins)
19th (13 wins)
23rd (9 Wins)
16th (3 wins)
21st (4 wins)

They then got to the more difficult part of the schedule, teams adjusted to the Vikings new offense and it sucked. Worse than just about any other Viking's offense of the past decade. Not because Zimmer was upset about scoring 37 against the Jets (lol), or because the team ran more, but because it was Cousins can't carry an offense and is at his best with a strong run game. The Vikings ended up only breaking 100 yards rushing 3 times after that Jets game (all wins, all the three highest scoring games in the second half of the season against bad teams, Detroit X2 and Miami).

The defenses they faced during that period/result of the game
20th/Loss
17th/Win
22nd/Win
1st/Loss
7th/Loss
12th/Loss
17th/Win
24th/Win
1st/Loss

See a pattern? The only really good scoring output they had was against Miami and that happened to be the single best rushing game of the season. Just a coincidence I am sure. That O ended up the 2nd worst ranked scoring of the past decade for the Vikings, the first being 2016, yet another year the team ran the ball very infrequently. Another coincidence.

On top of that, this pattern holds true for Cousins career. The best ranked scoring offense Cousins ever lead was not with McVay in Washington having him throw the ball a ton, it was in 2019 where Cousins threw the ball the fewest times of his career. More coindicidence?

There, I addressed your take on the terrible offense of the 2018 season yet again. Not sure why anyone wants to go back to that offense, but there you go.

No, you didn’t address it. You spun it, as usual. And nobody is defending 2018. This is about putting the season in its correct historical context.

The Vikings were 4-2-1. Spin it any way you want, but it’s a fact. They had played the Packers, division favorites at the start of the season. They had played the Rams, NFC representative in the Super Bowl. They had averaged 30 against those two on the road. They had beaten the Eagles, defending SB champs and still a playoff team, on the road.

After they beat the Jets, Zimmer DID complain about the offense and began to interfere, in spite of your childish “lol” comebacks. Following Zimmer’s interference, the Vikings didn’t score more than 24 points for the next six weeks. Oh I know, we’re supposed to discard what credentialed journalists say, guys who are in the locker room and have access to everyone, in favor of … YOU, who makes the ridiculous generalization that “teams figured DeFilippo out.” Whatever man. Again, I’ll take the word of the guys who do this for a living over a Zimmer sycophant like you.

Let’s get real here. Zimmer hated the whole thing. He hated that a loose cannon with a horseshoe up his butt had led the Vikings to 13-3. He then dumped that loose cannon, but hated that the Vikings spent $84 million on Kirk Cousins. He especially hated that the Vikings were a passing team under DeFilippo. So he meddled. And when the season spiraled into the sh!tter, he did what he always did … he blamed somebody else. He fired his OC. Least accountable coach in Vikings history.

But hey, you just keep on defending Zimmer’s genius offensive plan of “when we run more, we win.” They didn’t win. After the Jets game, they went 4-5. By my math, that’s worse than they started. And who did they beat? The Lions twice. The good-awful Dolphins. And the Packers, in total free fall by this point. A game, by the way, in which the Vikings averaged barely 3 yards per carry but Cousins threw for 342 and 3 with a 129 passer rating. The only games of those nine in which they rushed for 100 yards were against the Lions twice and the Dolphins, two of the worst defenses in the NFL. This idea that the offense suddenly became a juggernaut once Zimmer got involved is a joke.

You can try to revise history all you want. That season started 4-2-1 (would’ve been 5-2 if not for Daniel Carlson, who suddenly became a Pro Bowler once he left Mike Zimmer) and turned into a dumpster fire starting week 8. Pretty much the moment Zimmer put his stamp on the offense.

[Cliff]

All valid points VikingLord and I know that sometimes conversation will stray from the original construct....... BUT Stump will find a way to make every conversation stray from the original construct into a debate about Cousins. There's no other player on the team that this happens with and pretty much nobody else hijacking the threads. Clearly as the QB Cousins will be talked about more than any other player .................BUT................

Apparently moderation on this board doesn't exist unless you want to discuss your displeasure over the Vikings drafting a guy who probably did something disgusting to children.

I find it amusing , but others might be sick of every discussion evolving into you voicing your displeasure of someone having a different opinion than your own. Is that like the 6th post in a row of you attacking the poster and not the post?

This board only really has one active moderator (me) and I'm currently in the hospital with his wife. So forgive me if I really just don't care at all at this moment about the endless and worthless off-season back and forth over the same topics over and over and over.

That said, even if I was hyper-focused on the board I'm not going to get my underwear in a bunch because someone said you tend to morph conversations about anything else to Cousins. If you have a problem with the level of moderation feel free to find another community.

[vikeinmontana]

Apparently moderation on this board doesn't exist unless you want to discuss your displeasure over the Vikings drafting a guy who probably did something disgusting to children.

I find it amusing , but others might be sick of every discussion evolving into you voicing your displeasure of someone having a different opinion than your own. Is that like the 6th post in a row of you attacking the poster and not the post?

This board only really has one active moderator (me) and I'm currently in the hospital with his wife. So forgive me if I really just don't care at all at this moment about the endless and worthless off-season back and forth over the same topics over and over and over.

That said, even if I was hyper-focused on the board I'm not going to get my underwear in a bunch because someone said you tend to morph conversations about anything else to Cousins. If you have a problem with the level of moderation feel free to find another community.

Hope your wife is on the mend Cliff!

[StumpHunter]

Apparently moderation on this board doesn't exist unless you want to discuss your displeasure over the Vikings drafting a guy who probably did something disgusting to children.

I find it amusing , but others might be sick of every discussion evolving into you voicing your displeasure of someone having a different opinion than your own. Is that like the 6th post in a row of you attacking the poster and not the post?

This board only really has one active moderator (me) and I'm currently in the hospital with his wife. So forgive me if I really just don't care at all at this moment about the endless and worthless off-season back and forth over the same topics over and over and over.

That said, even if I was hyper-focused on the board I'm not going to get my underwear in a bunch because someone said you tend to morph conversations about anything else to Cousins. If you have a problem with the level of moderation feel free to find another community.

Sorry to hear about your wife, and hope it is nothing too serious.

[VikingLord]

I'm currently in the hospital with his wife.

I hope everything is OK and your wife gets better soon.

[VikingLord]

This new GM that we hired hasn't done a thing to make me feel he's above the rest. I felt he screwed up in the draft by trading away from the talent. IMO Hamilton was the guy to be picked for the safety position and he was there for us. He's a different type of player at 6' 4" and great sideline to sideline in game speed. How do you throw over that guy.

I've given this some thought, because I originally had the exact same reaction and feeling about the draft and KAM's moves as you did.

However, I'm willing to give KAM some leeway on this, not because he's new at it or I just want to be optimistic about the moves he made, but because he's articulated a strategy about how he views talent and draft picks and I am curious to see if he's on to anything. I mean, Spielman was a wheeler and a dealer during his time as GM, but I didn't get the sense he had much of a strategy behind the moves he made beyond trying to hit a home run with every pick. That strategy seemed to have its share of spectacular successes, but those seemed to be cancelled by misses of equal note. In the end, the wins cancelled out the losses, and the average results overall speak for themselves.

So while I don't know if KAM is going to be more successful, and in practice he made a lot of moves in this last draft as well, in regards to how he picked the players he picked, I'm willing to hold my fire until we get a better chance to watch how things play out. If Spielman was trying to hit home runs with his swings in the draft, KAM seems to be trying to get on base and even looking for multiple base hits rather than the big boomer. Sure, he might have connected with a guy like Hamilton earlier in the 1st, but what if the combo of Cine-Booth ends up driving in 2-3 runs instead of a solo shot?

Sorry for all the baseball analogies, but I managed to take in a Twins-Diamondbacks game recently and it put baseball in my mind.

[StumpHunter]

It is just that we have already been over all of this before and in the end, how much the offense scores and helps the team win should be all that matters.

However, if you insist:

During that stretch you think Cousins was doing really well, the Vikings faced exactly 1 top 10 scoring defense and were annihilated by it. The other D's they faced?

26th (4 wins)
22nd (6 Wins)
19th (13 wins)
23rd (9 Wins)
16th (3 wins)
21st (4 wins)

They then got to the more difficult part of the schedule, teams adjusted to the Vikings new offense and it sucked. Worse than just about any other Viking's offense of the past decade. Not because Zimmer was upset about scoring 37 against the Jets (lol), or because the team ran more, but because it was Cousins can't carry an offense and is at his best with a strong run game. The Vikings ended up only breaking 100 yards rushing 3 times after that Jets game (all wins, all the three highest scoring games in the second half of the season against bad teams, Detroit X2 and Miami).

The defenses they faced during that period/result of the game
20th/Loss
17th/Win
22nd/Win
1st/Loss
7th/Loss
12th/Loss
17th/Win
24th/Win
1st/Loss

See a pattern? The only really good scoring output they had was against Miami and that happened to be the single best rushing game of the season. Just a coincidence I am sure. That O ended up the 2nd worst ranked scoring of the past decade for the Vikings, the first being 2016, yet another year the team ran the ball very infrequently. Another coincidence.

On top of that, this pattern holds true for Cousins career. The best ranked scoring offense Cousins ever lead was not with McVay in Washington having him throw the ball a ton, it was in 2019 where Cousins threw the ball the fewest times of his career. More coindicidence?

There, I addressed your take on the terrible offense of the 2018 season yet again. Not sure why anyone wants to go back to that offense, but there you go.

No, you didn’t address it. You spun it, as usual. And nobody is defending 2018. This is about putting the season in its correct historical context.

The Vikings were 4-2-1. Spin it any way you want, but it’s a fact. They had played the Packers, division favorites at the start of the season. They had played the Rams, NFC representative in the Super Bowl. They had averaged 30 against those two on the road. They had beaten the Eagles, defending SB champs and still a playoff team, on the road.

After they beat the Jets, Zimmer DID complain about the offense and began to interfere, in spite of your childish “lol” comebacks. Following Zimmer’s interference, the Vikings didn’t score more than 24 points for the next six weeks. Oh I know, we’re supposed to discard what credentialed journalists say, guys who are in the locker room and have access to everyone, in favor of … YOU, who makes the ridiculous generalization that “teams figured DeFilippo out.” Whatever man. Again, I’ll take the word of the guys who do this for a living over a Zimmer sycophant like you.

Let’s get real here. Zimmer hated the whole thing. He hated that a loose cannon with a horseshoe up his butt had led the Vikings to 13-3. He then dumped that loose cannon, but hated that the Vikings spent $84 million on Kirk Cousins. He especially hated that the Vikings were a passing team under DeFilippo. So he meddled. And when the season spiraled into the sh!tter, he did what he always did … he blamed somebody else. He fired his OC. Least accountable coach in Vikings history.

But hey, you just keep on defending Zimmer’s genius offensive plan of “when we run more, we win.” They didn’t win. After the Jets game, they went 4-5. By my math, that’s worse than they started. And who did they beat? The Lions twice. The good-awful Dolphins. And the Packers, in total free fall by this point. A game, by the way, in which the Vikings averaged barely 3 yards per carry but Cousins threw for 342 and 3 with a 129 passer rating. The only games of those nine in which they rushed for 100 yards were against the Lions twice and the Dolphins, two of the worst defenses in the NFL. This idea that the offense suddenly became a juggernaut once Zimmer got involved is a joke.

You can try to revise history all you want. That season started 4-2-1 (would’ve been 5-2 if not for Daniel Carlson, who suddenly became a Pro Bowler once he left Mike Zimmer) and turned into a dumpster fire starting week 8. Pretty much the moment Zimmer put his stamp on the offense.

Accuse me of spinning and then post THAT?

Anyway, I would love to see examples of Zimmer putting his stamp on the offense in the final 9 games of the season. Was it in the NE game where Cook was averaging over 9 YPC and the Vikings only ran the ball with him 9 times on route to scoring 10 points? What about against Seattle where Cook was averaging more than 4 YPC on only 13 carries? Or the 13 carries at over 4 YPC for Murray against NO? That sure doesn't seem like Zimmer was forcing his OC to run more.

You downplays the 4 wins against bad teams because they were against bad defenses but then claims the 4 wins against bad defenses in the first part of the season meant something? How does that work now? Just like in the first half of the season, when the Vikings played bad defenses they did well, when they played good ones they sucked. Every. Single. Time.

[VikingsVictorious]

This board only really has one active moderator (me) and I'm currently in the hospital with his wife. So forgive me if I really just don't care at all at this moment about the endless and worthless off-season back and forth over the same topics over and over and over.

That said, even if I was hyper-focused on the board I'm not going to get my underwear in a bunch because someone said you tend to morph conversations about anything else to Cousins. If you have a problem with the level of moderation feel free to find another community.

Hope your wife is on the mend Cliff!

All the best to you and your wife Cliff.