Rules Changes that would Improve the game

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VikingsVictorious
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Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Hey all. Do you all get really excited to watch kneel downs? Is that the play you go to or watch the game hoping to see? Sure if it's our Vikings it means we win the game, but it's not a play that inspires anybody. Something I've proposed for years is now being proposed by Bud Grant. During what is now "victory formation" time if the offense doesn't gain yardage the clock stops. He also makes a plea for making the kickoff and punt returns more viable. The KR may be the single most exciting play to watch in all of football. How many of us enjoy an End Zone kneel down more than watching the kickoff returned? How many of us enjoy watching the ball sail though the end zone more than watching the kickoff returned?

Bud Grant and I. Brilliant football minds thinking alike. :lol: :D :govikes:
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by fiestavike »

Allow QBs to be hit in the head.

Allow defenders to take two steps after the ball is out to legally hit the QB.

Allow defenders to hit and tackle again.

limit all players to a max of either 14 or 16 games per season.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by VikingsVictorious »

fiestavike wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 3:34 pm Allow QBs to be hit in the head.

Allow defenders to take two steps after the ball is out to legally hit the QB.

Allow defenders to hit and tackle again.

limit all players to a max of either 14 or 16 games per season.
I would disagree with intentionally going for the head, but if contact clearly happened without intent it should not be penalized. I'm all for allowing defenders to not only tackle, but tackle with force. I saw a defender injure himself badly once in an attempt to not land with weight on the guy he was tackling.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by StanM »

Football has changed a lot since I first started watching with my dad in the late 50’s. It looks almost like a different game today. Seeing as I had no input or influence on NFL rules my only option was to adapt to the changes. That approach has served me well.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

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StanM wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:12 am Football has changed a lot since I first started watching with my dad in the late 50’s. It looks almost like a different game today. Seeing as I had no input or influence on NFL rules my only option was to adapt to the changes. That approach has served me well.
Things needed to change particularly to prevent concussions. I don't know how successful the league has been reducing those. Do any of you think you know the play I'm talking about where the defender hurt himself pretty bad due to trying to hold back on a tackle? I can't remember the name of the player, but I sure remember seeing it and it made me sick.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by fiestavike »

StanM wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:12 am Football has changed a lot since I first started watching with my dad in the late 50’s. It looks almost like a different game today. Seeing as I had no input or influence on NFL rules my only option was to adapt to the changes. That approach has served me well.
It's reached the point that I enjoy the offseason more than the season now, and thinking about what little bit of strategy is left in the NFL game. Last year I hardly watched. That was a huge change for me. I'd didn't miss a game since I started watching except for the day after my wedding. Now, I don't even feel like I've missed anything when I do something else on Sunday. I think I realized when I was getting frustrated with the refs for making the correct call by the rulebook, that the game had been ruined, and I stand by that. I think a league with lesser talent could steal a big share of the audience by simply going back to the NFL rulebook of the 1990s.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by vikeinmontana »

fiestavike wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:05 pm
StanM wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:12 am Football has changed a lot since I first started watching with my dad in the late 50’s. It looks almost like a different game today. Seeing as I had no input or influence on NFL rules my only option was to adapt to the changes. That approach has served me well.
It's reached the point that I enjoy the offseason more than the season now, and thinking about what little bit of strategy is left in the NFL game. Last year I hardly watched. That was a huge change for me. I'd didn't miss a game since I started watching except for the day after my wedding. Now, I don't even feel like I've missed anything when I do something else on Sunday. I think I realized when I was getting frustrated with the refs for making the correct call by the rulebook, that the game had been ruined, and I stand by that. I think a league with lesser talent could steal a big share of the audience by simply going back to the NFL rulebook of the 1990s.
You don't think there is strategy in the NFL currently?! :shock: :lol:

I get what you're saying about the rules as they currently stand. I'd be lying if I said I didn't get frustrated a few times a game. But the fact of the matter is this game isn't played for the fans. It is a career for these guys. They deserve to work in an environment that is as safe as possible just like you and I do. If they lose a few fans because of it I'm sure they are fine with it if it means they get to go home to their families every night. Just like you and I prefer to do.

The fact is, these guys are simply bigger, faster, stronger than they have ever been. And will likely get bigger, faster and stronger in the future. I like big hits as much as the next guy. And I agree that the qb's are coddled more than ever before. But I don't want to see a guy die out there simply so as a fan I can see a brutal collision. If the league is making rule changes to try and make a violent game a little bit safer, I'm fine adjusting to the rules, even if they drive me crazy at times.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by StanM »

fiestavike wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:05 pm
StanM wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:12 am Football has changed a lot since I first started watching with my dad in the late 50’s. It looks almost like a different game today. Seeing as I had no input or influence on NFL rules my only option was to adapt to the changes. That approach has served me well.
It's reached the point that I enjoy the offseason more than the season now, and thinking about what little bit of strategy is left in the NFL game. Last year I hardly watched. That was a huge change for me. I'd didn't miss a game since I started watching except for the day after my wedding. Now, I don't even feel like I've missed anything when I do something else on Sunday. I think I realized when I was getting frustrated with the refs for making the correct call by the rulebook, that the game had been ruined, and I stand by that. I think a league with lesser talent could steal a big share of the audience by simply going back to the NFL rulebook of the 1990s.
I don't think about it that deeply. If I couldn't adapt to the changes and lost interest in the sport I'd move onto something else. I could make a case for going back to the rules that were in place in the late 50's when I became interested in the sport. There is a fine line between fondness for the past and dinosaur so I try to straddle that line. So far I'm still liking football and the Vikings but I leave all the decisions to the team. My only choice is whether to continue following them. It's still working for me.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by VikingsVictorious »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:09 am
fiestavike wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:05 pm

It's reached the point that I enjoy the offseason more than the season now, and thinking about what little bit of strategy is left in the NFL game. Last year I hardly watched. That was a huge change for me. I'd didn't miss a game since I started watching except for the day after my wedding. Now, I don't even feel like I've missed anything when I do something else on Sunday. I think I realized when I was getting frustrated with the refs for making the correct call by the rulebook, that the game had been ruined, and I stand by that. I think a league with lesser talent could steal a big share of the audience by simply going back to the NFL rulebook of the 1990s.
You don't think there is strategy in the NFL currently?! :shock: :lol:

I get what you're saying about the rules as they currently stand. I'd be lying if I said I didn't get frustrated a few times a game. But the fact of the matter is this game isn't played for the fans. It is a career for these guys. They deserve to work in an environment that is as safe as possible just like you and I do. If they lose a few fans because of it I'm sure they are fine with it if it means they get to go home to their families every night. Just like you and I prefer to do.

The fact is, these guys are simply bigger, faster, stronger than they have ever been. And will likely get bigger, faster and stronger in the future. I like big hits as much as the next guy. And I agree that the qb's are coddled more than ever before. But I don't want to see a guy die out there simply so as a fan I can see a brutal collision. If the league is making rule changes to try and make a violent game a little bit safer, I'm fine adjusting to the rules, even if they drive me crazy at times.
The only safe choice regarding American Tackle Football is not to play. There will be danger for anybody who plays it. How far to go in the quest to make the game safer is the question. Making rules to tackle gently is flat out weird. Do we switch to flag and take out tackling completely?
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by vikeinmontana »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:14 pm
vikeinmontana wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:09 am

You don't think there is strategy in the NFL currently?! :shock: :lol:

I get what you're saying about the rules as they currently stand. I'd be lying if I said I didn't get frustrated a few times a game. But the fact of the matter is this game isn't played for the fans. It is a career for these guys. They deserve to work in an environment that is as safe as possible just like you and I do. If they lose a few fans because of it I'm sure they are fine with it if it means they get to go home to their families every night. Just like you and I prefer to do.

The fact is, these guys are simply bigger, faster, stronger than they have ever been. And will likely get bigger, faster and stronger in the future. I like big hits as much as the next guy. And I agree that the qb's are coddled more than ever before. But I don't want to see a guy die out there simply so as a fan I can see a brutal collision. If the league is making rule changes to try and make a violent game a little bit safer, I'm fine adjusting to the rules, even if they drive me crazy at times.
The only safe choice regarding American Tackle Football is not to play. There will be danger for anybody who plays it. How far to go in the quest to make the game safer is the question. Making rules to tackle gently is flat out weird. Do we switch to flag and take out tackling completely?
I'm not aware of rules to tackle gently. But I disagree with the premise that the only way we can make sports safer is by getting rid of them all together. I can't follow that logic.

I agree that as it stands now, even with the current rules that injuries will still occur. Even serious ones. But that doesn't negate the fact that there are measures that can be taken to limit injuries. Not being able to spear a person helmet to helmet is one of those measures. Protecting defenseless players is another. Doesn't mean I love all the rules or that the officials always get them right. But I have no issue whatsoever with measures trying to prevent serious injury in a very violent sport. :confused:
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

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vikeinmontana wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:46 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:14 pm
The only safe choice regarding American Tackle Football is not to play. There will be danger for anybody who plays it. How far to go in the quest to make the game safer is the question. Making rules to tackle gently is flat out weird. Do we switch to flag and take out tackling completely?
I'm not aware of rules to tackle gently. But I disagree with the premise that the only way we can make sports safer is by getting rid of them all together. I can't follow that logic.

I agree that as it stands now, even with the current rules that injuries will still occur. Even serious ones. But that doesn't negate the fact that there are measures that can be taken to limit injuries. Not being able to spear a person helmet to helmet is one of those measures. Protecting defenseless players is another. Doesn't mean I love all the rules or that the officials always get them right. But I have no issue whatsoever with measures trying to prevent serious injury in a very violent sport. :confused:
What do you call rules about not landing with your weight on the person being tackled? Players continually get penalized for tackling too hard.

I never said the only way to make sports safer is eliminating them completely. Show me anywhere I said that? I said the only safe choice is not to play and that is a fact. For those who do choose to play anyway we can take some measures to make the game "safer". One would be changing to flag so there is no tackling at all. However, I don't think that will gain approval. The anti-spearing and defenseless player rules help make the game safer also. I like those rules. So it seems we are willing to make choices that only make the game slightly safer rather than going for choices such as removing tackling that would make the game dramatically safer.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by vikeinmontana »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:54 pm
vikeinmontana wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:46 pm
I'm not aware of rules to tackle gently. But I disagree with the premise that the only way we can make sports safer is by getting rid of them all together. I can't follow that logic.

I agree that as it stands now, even with the current rules that injuries will still occur. Even serious ones. But that doesn't negate the fact that there are measures that can be taken to limit injuries. Not being able to spear a person helmet to helmet is one of those measures. Protecting defenseless players is another. Doesn't mean I love all the rules or that the officials always get them right. But I have no issue whatsoever with measures trying to prevent serious injury in a very violent sport. :confused:
What do you call rules about not landing with your weight on the person being tackled? Players continually get penalized for tackling too hard.

I never said the only way to make sports safer is eliminating them completely. Show me anywhere I said that? I said the only safe choice is not to play and that is a fact. For those who do choose to play anyway we can take some measures to make the game "safer". One would be changing to flag so there is no tackling at all. However, I don't think that will gain approval. The anti-spearing and defenseless player rules help make the game safer also. I like those rules. So it seems we are willing to make choices that only make the game slightly safer rather than going for choices such as removing tackling that would make the game dramatically safer.
Yes I agree. They're not going to stop playing football as a whole. Players can always choose. Some DO choose not to play and that's fine. Others choose to play and accept that there could be risks. That still doesn't negate the fact that there are rules to make an unsafe sport safer. And players are willing to deal with those rules so they can play a game they love and make a fortune doing it.

In regards to not landing on a player with all of your weight being considered a rule to "tackle gently" I'd disagree with that as well. It's not that black and white. I bet I could find a lot of QB's who have been leveled from their blindside that wouldn't consider it gentle simply because the guy didn't land on them after the fact with all of his weight. :lol:
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

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vikeinmontana wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:05 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:54 pm
What do you call rules about not landing with your weight on the person being tackled? Players continually get penalized for tackling too hard.

I never said the only way to make sports safer is eliminating them completely. Show me anywhere I said that? I said the only safe choice is not to play and that is a fact. For those who do choose to play anyway we can take some measures to make the game "safer". One would be changing to flag so there is no tackling at all. However, I don't think that will gain approval. The anti-spearing and defenseless player rules help make the game safer also. I like those rules. So it seems we are willing to make choices that only make the game slightly safer rather than going for choices such as removing tackling that would make the game dramatically safer.
Yes I agree. They're not going to stop playing football as a whole. Players can always choose. Some DO choose not to play and that's fine. Others choose to play and accept that there could be risks. That still doesn't negate the fact that there are rules to make an unsafe sport safer. And players are willing to deal with those rules so they can play a game they love and make a fortune doing it.

In regards to not landing on a player with all of your weight being considered a rule to "tackle gently" I'd disagree with that as well. It's not that black and white. I bet I could find a lot of QB's who have been leveled from their blindside that wouldn't consider it gentle simply because the guy didn't land on them after the fact with all of his weight. :lol:
Gentle is a relative term. That rule is to make the tackle more gentle. Tackling a person with full force is pretty much discouraged by the NFL under any circumstances. Tackle somebody hard and there is a very good chance you will get penalized.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by fiestavike »

StanM wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:24 pm
fiestavike wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:05 pm

It's reached the point that I enjoy the offseason more than the season now, and thinking about what little bit of strategy is left in the NFL game. Last year I hardly watched. That was a huge change for me. I'd didn't miss a game since I started watching except for the day after my wedding. Now, I don't even feel like I've missed anything when I do something else on Sunday. I think I realized when I was getting frustrated with the refs for making the correct call by the rulebook, that the game had been ruined, and I stand by that. I think a league with lesser talent could steal a big share of the audience by simply going back to the NFL rulebook of the 1990s.
I don't think about it that deeply. If I couldn't adapt to the changes and lost interest in the sport I'd move onto something else. I could make a case for going back to the rules that were in place in the late 50's when I became interested in the sport. There is a fine line between fondness for the past and dinosaur so I try to straddle that line. So far I'm still liking football and the Vikings but I leave all the decisions to the team. My only choice is whether to continue following them. It's still working for me.
I can appreciate that. I am beyond dinosaur and ok with it. Football has been a huge part of my life, but I'm weening myself off of it until/unless some better brand of football emerges. Not likely to happen though.
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Re: Rules Changes that would Improve the game

Post by fiestavike »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:09 am
fiestavike wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:05 pm

It's reached the point that I enjoy the offseason more than the season now, and thinking about what little bit of strategy is left in the NFL game. Last year I hardly watched. That was a huge change for me. I'd didn't miss a game since I started watching except for the day after my wedding. Now, I don't even feel like I've missed anything when I do something else on Sunday. I think I realized when I was getting frustrated with the refs for making the correct call by the rulebook, that the game had been ruined, and I stand by that. I think a league with lesser talent could steal a big share of the audience by simply going back to the NFL rulebook of the 1990s.
You don't think there is strategy in the NFL currently?! :shock: :lol:

I get what you're saying about the rules as they currently stand. I'd be lying if I said I didn't get frustrated a few times a game. But the fact of the matter is this game isn't played for the fans. It is a career for these guys. They deserve to work in an environment that is as safe as possible just like you and I do. If they lose a few fans because of it I'm sure they are fine with it if it means they get to go home to their families every night. Just like you and I prefer to do.

The fact is, these guys are simply bigger, faster, stronger than they have ever been. And will likely get bigger, faster and stronger in the future. I like big hits as much as the next guy. And I agree that the qb's are coddled more than ever before. But I don't want to see a guy die out there simply so as a fan I can see a brutal collision. If the league is making rule changes to try and make a violent game a little bit safer, I'm fine adjusting to the rules, even if they drive me crazy at times.
Comparatively, very little strategy. It's become incredibly 'top heavy', with fewer and fewer equalizers at positions other than QB. What strategy remains is still the one part of the game I enjoy, and I think that's why I enjoy the offseason.

As to reducing injuries and physicality, that's fine, but why not apply the same to MMA? Or why not switch the helmets and pads to reduce impact? Because it wouldn't 'look as cool'? There are things you could do to reduce injuries without compromising the integrity and nature of the game. The NFL has chosen not to do those things, to market to the lowest common denominator in order to maximize $, and to make the game a celebrity drive, high action fantasy football and betting product. Yuck.
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