J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 8:17 am
Gonna disagree here, and in a big way.
First of all, it’s not that the draft lacked talent. It’s that it lacked the extreme top-of-the-board talent that other drafts have featured. There was a lot of debate at who the top 5 would be, and anybody who says they got them all right is lying. Two weeks ago, 2/3 of the mocks had Stingley going to the Vikings. He didn’t make it out of the top 5. Meanwhile Hamilton was mocked as high as 2 … he fell to 14. Instead of blasting the Vikings for failing to draft a “sure thing,” maybe we all should be asking why he fell so far in the first place.
And while everybody moans about Williams going to Detroit, they overlook the fact that the rate of full recovery for WRs who tear ACLs is actually quite low.
In a deep draft without super top-end talent, your best bet is to acquire lots of picks in a range where there are still good players. Kwesi did that, with four picks between 32 and 66.
Obviously it remains to be seen whether the players the Vikings drafted will be any good. But I can’t fault the team for loading up on players in rounds 2 and 3 of a deep draft that lacked high-end talent.
Mocking a safety at 2 is a big time stretch. I'm not looking it up but I highly doubt that ever happened. The position doesn't fit in the draft slot suggested. Hamilton can come up and cover guys. That's a huge advantage. One reason he fell to 14 is Kewsi didn't like him otherwise 12 would have been the slot. The Ravens wasted no time. I'm not moaning about Williams the Lions can have him. I'm moaning about getting very little if anything in return. Especially when there was an early run on WR. Williams was the last man standing. We had them. Make them pay the piper. I still feel we screwed up in round one again. We could have selected a much better prospect at 12 than any guy we could have at 32. No more than that. I'm so tired of this trading down BS. Why do you think we have a shallow roster and no all pros? Bad player selection is part of it but moving away from the talent is a bigger part. Moving away doesn't help the selection process at all.
The trade down approach, in the 1st rd, this year does not bother me because there was a lot of talent in the 2nd round. But I totally agree with what you are saying CharVike... We always, past 10+ years, trade away from the talent to accumulate as many picks to fill holes. Those holes are created because we trade out of the talent to get bodies. They do not perform, and again... trade down to accumulate picks in order to try to keep filling holes with mediocre talent. The Rick way does not work at creating a deep and talented team.
Kwesi moved around alot and up many times to target players. I like that a lot, but I just do not know if they could have gotten some better talent.
I just want to see this team continue to get talent and trade up if need be. Instead of always filling holes, get the BPA and develop depth if that is what is available. Next year has some great QB talent.... are we going to get one ?
CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:37 am
Mocking a safety at 2 is a big time stretch. I'm not looking it up but I highly doubt that ever happened. The position doesn't fit in the draft slot suggested. Hamilton can come up and cover guys. That's a huge advantage. One reason he fell to 14 is Kewsi didn't like him otherwise 12 would have been the slot. The Ravens wasted no time. I'm not moaning about Williams the Lions can have him. I'm moaning about getting very little if anything in return. Especially when there was an early run on WR. Williams was the last man standing. We had them. Make them pay the piper. I still feel we screwed up in round one again. We could have selected a much better prospect at 12 than any guy we could have at 32. No more than that. I'm so tired of this trading down BS. Why do you think we have a shallow roster and no all pros? Bad player selection is part of it but moving away from the talent is a bigger part. Moving away doesn't help the selection process at all.
The trade down approach, in the 1st rd, this year does not bother me because there was a lot of talent in the 2nd round. But I totally agree with what you are saying CharVike... We always, past 10+ years, trade away from the talent to accumulate as many picks to fill holes. Those holes are created because we trade out of the talent to get bodies. They do not perform, and again... trade down to accumulate picks in order to try to keep filling holes with mediocre talent. The Rick way does not work at creating a deep and talented team.
Kwesi moved around alot and up many times to target players. I like that a lot, but I just do not know if they could have gotten some better talent.
I just want to see this team continue to get talent and trade up if need be. Instead of always filling holes, get the BPA and develop depth if that is what is available. Next year has some great QB talent.... are we going to get one ?
I hope not. That would indicate that the Vikings didn't have a good year.
vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 9:47 pm
Draft threads are maybe my favorite. I get the opinions. I have picks I personally like and others I don't. But I have seen way too many athletes over the years perform the exact opposite of how the majority of fans thought they would perform. I've seen 1st, 2nd and 3rd round busts by "can't miss" players. I've seen too many 5th, 6th 7th and UDFA players make a team, perform very well, and have great success.
I'm part of a fun board for Montana State and while there is always this type of talk around the signing period, who sucks, who's going to be a stud etc.....there isn't much. Instead, there is a great thread where we analyze the recruits 3 years later. It's pretty fascinating, and very similar to the talk we see here. Guys that everyone thought we "stole" from the FBS at the time that isn't even on the roster. Guys who "weren't worth a scholarship" in 2019 and now is one of our best players. Happens all the time.
But from an entertainment standpoint, these draft threads are always my favorite.
This is beyond my retirement job description but there are a lot of stats oriented people in this forum. I suspect that somebody will track and compare our draft choices with the players we would have gotten had we stood fast and used our original picks. Of course we can’t know who GB and Det would have selected if we had not made the trades. I think it will be interesting to revisit this draft in a couple years.
I liked this draft. Keeping in mind that this draft supposedly had a lot of depth I think we could have found more first year (not necessarily game one but during the 2022 season) than a typical draft. A few moths ago we were on pins and needles hoping our starters stayed healthy. The new regime appears to have recognized the need to shore up depth and the defense and did exactly that. They drafted physical players and added some speed and hard hitting in the secondary. They brought in a bunch of competition for the O line and it is sure to be improved over last year. This wasn’t a “sexy” draft but KAM dealt picks to target specific players and needs as the draft unfolded and is being praised by the staff for it but crucified by a lot of the fan base. I suspect that the way they dealt in this years draft is likely not a precedent and they could move up next year for a QB. It appears that they are not bashful about making big moves and could still make trades and add free agents.
A few things KAM has emphasized and fans need to hear and get the sense of. KAM handles the draft like a Wall Street trader, he thinks fast on his feet, gets a consensus from scouting and coaching and makes the move based on that. Forget the idea of Rick making rogue picks, that is not what KAM did. He also emphasized that statistically the backbone of every team is predominantly comprised of 2nd and 3rd rounders. As far as non trading with division rivals, they’re going to find ways to get star players and every draft pick league wide is an unknown. Some will blow out a knee, others will never equal their draft scores. Some will become distractions, and a precious few over the entire 32 teams will be HOF’ers and/or Pro Bowl nominees.
I believe that we will look back at this draft as one our best in years. Maybe I’m wrong but what’s the worst that could happen? Can they make me relive the last 60+ years and every loss over again if I’m wrong? That would be the worst punishment imaginable but I still had to get up and go to work the next day after every Super Bowl loss. Same thing the day after both Twins World Series.
vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 9:47 pm
Draft threads are maybe my favorite. I get the opinions. I have picks I personally like and others I don't. But I have seen way too many athletes over the years perform the exact opposite of how the majority of fans thought they would perform. I've seen 1st, 2nd and 3rd round busts by "can't miss" players. I've seen too many 5th, 6th 7th and UDFA players make a team, perform very well, and have great success.
I'm part of a fun board for Montana State and while there is always this type of talk around the signing period, who sucks, who's going to be a stud etc.....there isn't much. Instead, there is a great thread where we analyze the recruits 3 years later. It's pretty fascinating, and very similar to the talk we see here. Guys that everyone thought we "stole" from the FBS at the time that isn't even on the roster. Guys who "weren't worth a scholarship" in 2019 and now is one of our best players. Happens all the time.
But from an entertainment standpoint, these draft threads are always my favorite.
This is beyond my retirement job description but there are a lot of stats oriented people in this forum. I suspect that somebody will track and compare our draft choices with the players we would have gotten had we stood fast and used our original picks. Of course we can’t know who GB and Det would have selected if we had not made the trades. I think it will be interesting to revisit this draft in a couple years.
I liked this draft. Keeping in mind that this draft supposedly had a lot of depth I think we could have found more first year (not necessarily game one but during the 2022 season) than a typical draft. A few moths ago we were on pins and needles hoping our starters stayed healthy. The new regime appears to have recognized the need to shore up depth and the defense and did exactly that. They drafted physical players and added some speed and hard hitting in the secondary. They brought in a bunch of competition for the O line and it is sure to be improved over last year. This wasn’t a “sexy” draft but KAM dealt picks to target specific players and needs as the draft unfolded and is being praised by the staff for it but crucified by a lot of the fan base. I suspect that the way they dealt in this years draft is likely not a precedent and they could move up next year for a QB. It appears that they are not bashful about making big moves and could still make trades and add free agents.
A few things KAM has emphasized and fans need to hear and get the sense of. KAM handles the draft like a Wall Street trader, he thinks fast on his feet, gets a consensus from scouting and coaching and makes the move based on that. Forget the idea of Rick making rogue picks, that is not what KAM did. He also emphasized that statistically the backbone of every team is predominantly comprised of 2nd and 3rd rounders. As far as non trading with division rivals, they’re going to find ways to get star players and every draft pick league wide is an unknown. Some will blow out a knee, others will never equal their draft scores. Some will become distractions, and a precious few over the entire 32 teams will be HOF’ers and/or Pro Bowl nominees.
I believe that we will look back at this draft as one our best in years. Maybe I’m wrong but what’s the worst that could happen? Can they make me relive the last 60+ years and every loss over again if I’m wrong? That would be the worst punishment imaginable but I still had to get up and go to work the next day after every Super Bowl loss. Same thing the day after both Twins World Series.
I did some analysis of the complicated relationships of the trades that eventually landed us Cine and Booth. Posted also in the Booth thread.
Despite me not being a fan of the Detroit trade the draft capitol to get Cine and Booth was almost 100% from that trade with some bonus.
From Detroit. Pick 32 directly used to acquire Cine
From Detroit: Pick 34 used to acquire 53 and 59
Booth and pick 122 acquired using picks 53 and 77 and some very late pick not sure which number. 77 was our own entering the draft, but we got 66 in the Detroit trade more than compensating for that. We did have to give our #46 but we still had 59 and 122 left over when all the dust settled. So I think it's fair to say that pick 12 got us both Cine and Booth.
In the end IMO the compensation was worth the trade.
IIsweet wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 10:03 am
The trade down approach, in the 1st rd, this year does not bother me because there was a lot of talent in the 2nd round. But I totally agree with what you are saying CharVike... We always, past 10+ years, trade away from the talent to accumulate as many picks to fill holes. Those holes are created because we trade out of the talent to get bodies. They do not perform, and again... trade down to accumulate picks in order to try to keep filling holes with mediocre talent. The Rick way does not work at creating a deep and talented team.
Kwesi moved around alot and up many times to target players. I like that a lot, but I just do not know if they could have gotten some better talent.
I just want to see this team continue to get talent and trade up if need be. Instead of always filling holes, get the BPA and develop depth if that is what is available. Next year has some great QB talent.... are we going to get one ?
I hope not. That would indicate that the Vikings didn't have a good year.
The Ravens draft this year is one to keep an eye on just for entertainment. This will be a true test of the body count draft. 6 4th rounders is basically an entire draft in one round. Plus two 1st rounders a 2nd and a 3rd. That's a ton of bodies. Of course they will have some misses that always happens to every GM. Just the volume of picks should set the team up for many years. It's never that simple and of course some other BS will pop up which could throw a monkey wrench into their approach.
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 8:17 am
Gonna disagree here, and in a big way.
First of all, it’s not that the draft lacked talent. It’s that it lacked the extreme top-of-the-board talent that other drafts have featured. There was a lot of debate at who the top 5 would be, and anybody who says they got them all right is lying. Two weeks ago, 2/3 of the mocks had Stingley going to the Vikings. He didn’t make it out of the top 5. Meanwhile Hamilton was mocked as high as 2 … he fell to 14. Instead of blasting the Vikings for failing to draft a “sure thing,” maybe we all should be asking why he fell so far in the first place.
And while everybody moans about Williams going to Detroit, they overlook the fact that the rate of full recovery for WRs who tear ACLs is actually quite low.
In a deep draft without super top-end talent, your best bet is to acquire lots of picks in a range where there are still good players. Kwesi did that, with four picks between 32 and 66.
Obviously it remains to be seen whether the players the Vikings drafted will be any good. But I can’t fault the team for loading up on players in rounds 2 and 3 of a deep draft that lacked high-end talent.
Mocking a safety at 2 is a big time stretch. I'm not looking it up but I highly doubt that ever happened. The position doesn't fit in the draft slot suggested. Hamilton can come up and cover guys. That's a huge advantage. One reason he fell to 14 is Kewsi didn't like him otherwise 12 would have been the slot. The Ravens wasted no time. I'm not moaning about Williams the Lions can have him. I'm moaning about getting very little if anything in return. Especially when there was an early run on WR. Williams was the last man standing. We had them. Make them pay the piper. I still feel we screwed up in round one again. We could have selected a much better prospect at 12 than any guy we could have at 32. No more than that. I'm so tired of this trading down BS. Why do you think we have a shallow roster and no all pros? Bad player selection is part of it but moving away from the talent is a bigger part. Moving away doesn't help the selection process at all.
I get it. Even though this team hasn't won big over the past decade, it's not that often that we draft as high as 12.
As for the All Pros, maybe this will help. The Los Angeles Rams offensive line had the highest pass-block win rate in the NFL last year. Yet they didn't have a single Pro Bowler, let alone All Pro. As far as roster depth, we're deeper at corner, linebacker, safety and the offensive line than we were on the last day of the season. You don't build depth with No. 12 picks. You build depth in the middle rounds. We had three more picks in rounds 1-5 than we started the draft with.
Also, not sure where you get the idea we have no All Pros. Justin Jefferson is a two-time All Pro, having garnered second-team honors both years in the league. Dalvin Cook should have been an All Pro in 2020, but they gifted it to Alvin Kamara. We got Cook in the second round. Danielle Hunter is an All Pro (2018). We got him in the 3rd round. Eric Kendricks is an All Pro (2019). Got him in the second. And of course Harrison Smith is a two-time All Pro (2017, 2018). We have some pretty darned good players.
This is beyond my retirement job description but there are a lot of stats oriented people in this forum. I suspect that somebody will track and compare our draft choices with the players we would have gotten had we stood fast and used our original picks. Of course we can’t know who GB and Det would have selected if we had not made the trades. I think it will be interesting to revisit this draft in a couple years.
I liked this draft. Keeping in mind that this draft supposedly had a lot of depth I think we could have found more first year (not necessarily game one but during the 2022 season) than a typical draft. A few moths ago we were on pins and needles hoping our starters stayed healthy. The new regime appears to have recognized the need to shore up depth and the defense and did exactly that. They drafted physical players and added some speed and hard hitting in the secondary. They brought in a bunch of competition for the O line and it is sure to be improved over last year. This wasn’t a “sexy” draft but KAM dealt picks to target specific players and needs as the draft unfolded and is being praised by the staff for it but crucified by a lot of the fan base. I suspect that the way they dealt in this years draft is likely not a precedent and they could move up next year for a QB. It appears that they are not bashful about making big moves and could still make trades and add free agents.
A few things KAM has emphasized and fans need to hear and get the sense of. KAM handles the draft like a Wall Street trader, he thinks fast on his feet, gets a consensus from scouting and coaching and makes the move based on that. Forget the idea of Rick making rogue picks, that is not what KAM did. He also emphasized that statistically the backbone of every team is predominantly comprised of 2nd and 3rd rounders. As far as non trading with division rivals, they’re going to find ways to get star players and every draft pick league wide is an unknown. Some will blow out a knee, others will never equal their draft scores. Some will become distractions, and a precious few over the entire 32 teams will be HOF’ers and/or Pro Bowl nominees.
I believe that we will look back at this draft as one our best in years. Maybe I’m wrong but what’s the worst that could happen? Can they make me relive the last 60+ years and every loss over again if I’m wrong? That would be the worst punishment imaginable but I still had to get up and go to work the next day after every Super Bowl loss. Same thing the day after both Twins World Series.
I like the way you think and I hope you're right.
If what the Vikings did made me so upset that I keel over at 70 yelling at the TV they will have screwed me over one more time. I try to keep an open mind and casual approach with sports. They're supposed to be a distraction from stress, not a contributing factor. That is how I approach the two sports that I follow closely. My other favorite sport is dirt track Sprint Car racing, when things go wrong they go over the fence and out of the park so it's pretty intense this time of year.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:14 am
I like the way you think and I hope you're right.
If what the Vikings did made me so upset that I keel over at 70 yelling at the TV they will have screwed me over one more time. I try to keep an open mind and casual approach with sports. They're supposed to be a distraction from stress, not a contributing factor. That is how I approach the two sports that I follow closely. My other favorite sport is dirt track Sprint Car racing, when things go wrong they go over the fence and out of the park so it's pretty intense this time of year.
I am with you at 70. Our time to see a Viking super bowl.hope it happens soon
CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:37 am
Mocking a safety at 2 is a big time stretch. I'm not looking it up but I highly doubt that ever happened. The position doesn't fit in the draft slot suggested. Hamilton can come up and cover guys. That's a huge advantage. One reason he fell to 14 is Kewsi didn't like him otherwise 12 would have been the slot. The Ravens wasted no time. I'm not moaning about Williams the Lions can have him. I'm moaning about getting very little if anything in return. Especially when there was an early run on WR. Williams was the last man standing. We had them. Make them pay the piper. I still feel we screwed up in round one again. We could have selected a much better prospect at 12 than any guy we could have at 32. No more than that. I'm so tired of this trading down BS. Why do you think we have a shallow roster and no all pros? Bad player selection is part of it but moving away from the talent is a bigger part. Moving away doesn't help the selection process at all.
I get it. Even though this team hasn't won big over the past decade, it's not that often that we draft as high as 12.
As for the All Pros, maybe this will help. The Los Angeles Rams offensive line had the highest pass-block win rate in the NFL last year. Yet they didn't have a single Pro Bowler, let alone All Pro. As far as roster depth, we're deeper at corner, linebacker, safety and the offensive line than we were on the last day of the season. You don't build depth with No. 12 picks. You build depth in the middle rounds. We had three more picks in rounds 1-5 than we started the draft with.
Also, not sure where you get the idea we have no All Pros. Justin Jefferson is a two-time All Pro, having garnered second-team honors both years in the league. Dalvin Cook should have been an All Pro in 2020, but they gifted it to Alvin Kamara. We got Cook in the second round. Danielle Hunter is an All Pro (2018). We got him in the 3rd round. Eric Kendricks is an All Pro (2019). Got him in the second. And of course Harrison Smith is a two-time All Pro (2017, 2018). We have some pretty darned good players.
Look up the drafts between 2013-2018 (stopping at 2018 to give picks their 3 years). Despite having 8 first round picks to 4 second round picks during that time period we still did better in the 2nd round.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:15 pm
I did some analysis of the complicated relationships of the trades that eventually landed us Cine and Booth. Posted also in the Booth thread.
Despite me not being a fan of the Detroit trade the draft capitol to get Cine and Booth was almost 100% from that trade with some bonus.
From Detroit. Pick 32 directly used to acquire Cine
From Detroit: Pick 34 used to acquire 53 and 59
Booth and pick 122 acquired using picks 53 and 77 and some very late pick not sure which number. 77 was our own entering the draft, but we got 66 in the Detroit trade more than compensating for that. We did have to give our #46 but we still had 59 and 122 left over when all the dust settled. So I think it's fair to say that pick 12 got us both Cine and Booth.
In the end IMO the compensation was worth the trade.
Kwesi got absolutely destroyed by a Lions GM in his first draft day move. No amount of spin will change that fact.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 12:15 pm
I did some analysis of the complicated relationships of the trades that eventually landed us Cine and Booth. Posted also in the Booth thread.
Despite me not being a fan of the Detroit trade the draft capitol to get Cine and Booth was almost 100% from that trade with some bonus.
From Detroit. Pick 32 directly used to acquire Cine
From Detroit: Pick 34 used to acquire 53 and 59
Booth and pick 122 acquired using picks 53 and 77 and some very late pick not sure which number. 77 was our own entering the draft, but we got 66 in the Detroit trade more than compensating for that. We did have to give our #46 but we still had 59 and 122 left over when all the dust settled. So I think it's fair to say that pick 12 got us both Cine and Booth.
In the end IMO the compensation was worth the trade.
Kwesi got absolutely destroyed by a Lions GM in his first draft day move. No amount of spin will change that fact.
You think that. I thought that too. We both think that Kwesi should have got more. There is no way to prove he could have. There is no spin. What I posted was FACT. What I showed here clearly is that we did better making that trade than we would have if we didn't if you consider Cine and Booth to be greater than who we could have taken at 12 alone. I would have drafted Jordan Davis at 12, but I would trade Jordan Davis in a heartbeat for Cine and Booth. You probably didn't even consider that because you hate me and anything I propose you will take the other side of. Who would you have drafted at 12? Hamilton? He is timed by sundial. Williams? All accounts have him as a great talent, but he might not even play this year and how will he recover from his ACL surgery. I'd like to have Williams, but I would trade him for Cine and Booth in a heartbeat. I have shared that formula across YouTube nationwide and despite most sites understandably hating on the trade many people have had to admit to my point. However, with you I expect my words will fall upon deaf ears.
CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:37 am
Mocking a safety at 2 is a big time stretch. I'm not looking it up but I highly doubt that ever happened. The position doesn't fit in the draft slot suggested. Hamilton can come up and cover guys. That's a huge advantage. One reason he fell to 14 is Kewsi didn't like him otherwise 12 would have been the slot. The Ravens wasted no time. I'm not moaning about Williams the Lions can have him. I'm moaning about getting very little if anything in return. Especially when there was an early run on WR. Williams was the last man standing. We had them. Make them pay the piper. I still feel we screwed up in round one again. We could have selected a much better prospect at 12 than any guy we could have at 32. No more than that. I'm so tired of this trading down BS. Why do you think we have a shallow roster and no all pros? Bad player selection is part of it but moving away from the talent is a bigger part. Moving away doesn't help the selection process at all.
I get it. Even though this team hasn't won big over the past decade, it's not that often that we draft as high as 12.
As for the All Pros, maybe this will help. The Los Angeles Rams offensive line had the highest pass-block win rate in the NFL last year. Yet they didn't have a single Pro Bowler, let alone All Pro. As far as roster depth, we're deeper at corner, linebacker, safety and the offensive line than we were on the last day of the season. You don't build depth with No. 12 picks. You build depth in the middle rounds. We had three more picks in rounds 1-5 than we started the draft with.
Also, not sure where you get the idea we have no All Pros. Justin Jefferson is a two-time All Pro, having garnered second-team honors both years in the league. Dalvin Cook should have been an All Pro in 2020, but they gifted it to Alvin Kamara. We got Cook in the second round. Danielle Hunter is an All Pro (2018). We got him in the 3rd round. Eric Kendricks is an All Pro (2019). Got him in the second. And of course Harrison Smith is a two-time All Pro (2017, 2018). We have some pretty darned good players.
You forgot Cousins who made it in 2021 replacing Rodgers. I guess he don't count. You do know it's 2022 right? Hunter was a great pick and it could be argued he was Speilman's best pick. We are a different team when he plays. That's what top talent does. You are going back to 2018 with him. You can get players from anywhere I'm fully aware of that. Perhaps me stating All pro was far fetched. IMO you have a much better chance of getting a top level player at pick 1 than pick 32. As an example Andrew Luck would never be at 32. As you keep rolling through the picks your odds go down because the pool of top players is smaller. Trader down Kewsi made the move. Good for him. He's being billed as a genius because of a Wall Street background which is BS. The move he made anybody could have made. He did nothing close to ground breaking or Earth shattering. Draft one is in the books. Hopefully he drafted some good players.
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:14 am
I like the way you think and I hope you're right.
If what the Vikings did made me so upset that I keel over at 70 yelling at the TV they will have screwed me over one more time. I try to keep an open mind and casual approach with sports. They're supposed to be a distraction from stress, not a contributing factor. That is how I approach the two sports that I follow closely. My other favorite sport is dirt track Sprint Car racing, when things go wrong they go over the fence and out of the park so it's pretty intense this time of year.
I enjoy reading your post. You have a good attitude about this stuff. It's entertainment and most of us are older fans so we have seen the stuff we have been through. I also keep in mind what Bud Grant said about losing Super Bowls. He was a great person and when I was younger he pissed me off by keeping veterans around long past there primes. He did that for the players pensions. At he time I couldn't appreciate that but in reflection he helped these guys out and sacrificed his own potential success for their security. That's a great person.
I will keep this sentence in mind that you posted. They're supposed to be a distraction from stress, not a contributing factor. Of course we would all like a Super Bowl. I would accept another appearance before it's over. The discussions on this board are great and there are many different views and that's what makes it great. It opens the eyes everyday.
