Cousins Extended

[J. Kapp 11]

FA guards being signed. Scherff to jax and Corbett to car.

We have to do something on the interior.

This is the difference between teams who are under the cap and those who aren’t.

While the Vikings are scrambling to get cap compliant by Wednesday, teams with cap space are using the legal tampering period to sign important players. By the time the Vikings have enough cap space to do anything, the best free agents will be gone.

KAM needs to change this “run up the credit card” part of the Vikings’ former culture.

[JJBreaksRecords]

I have the right to look at the stats and see Wentz had a significantly higher YPA, completion percentage and passer rating under pressure than Cousins 5.2 YPA, 45 completion % and 72 passer rating.

Are those numbers "really good"? Don't seem like it to me.

You will only post stats when they support you. I know you've seen many stats that support how good Cousins is under pressure and not under pressure and under many kinds of circumstances. You will only quote stats from this year if they're below his norms, but if they're above his norms you will state his career stats. You know you do this. You know you don't discuss in good faith.

Like you dont do this. And the few Cousins Crusaders here dont. I think Stumps makes good points here, that are as valid as anyone else's posts about Kirk. Kirks is a stat machine, so pro Kirks people can pick only the stats they want. But just about ever reporter I have seen say Kirk loses some control when he doesnt have a perfectly clean pocket. He checks down immediately, which improves passer ratings but does nothing for the team. And KOC is a first time ever HC, that some people think can can preform a magic trick and correct most, if not all of Kirks mistakes. Thats not going to happen. He may fix a few, and if a few is enough, we may see the playoffs. But I doubt we get close to a SB, based of the facts of Kirks record so far on the Vikings. OFC its not all his vault. but some of the fault is his. Just listen to some of his talks after the game. And what does this even mean 'You know you don't discuss in good faith' when you were talking to stump? Are you suggesting he lies? Or bends the truth to fit his narrative, like almost everyone i see here does sometime. One thing Kirk is good at is making money here, and for the most part, not a real team player, like, say, Barr and numerous other players have (Brady comes to mind).

[makila]

FA guards being signed. Scherff to jax and Corbett to car.

We have to do something on the interior.

This is the difference between teams who are under the cap and those who aren’t.

While the Vikings are scrambling to get cap compliant by Wednesday, teams with cap space are using the legal tampering period to sign important players. By the time the Vikings have enough cap space to do anything, the best free agents will be gone.

KAM needs to change this “run up the credit card” part of the Vikings’ former culture.

Agreed. I think most every viking fan realizes we need to improve the interior of the line, quickly. Especially with Kirk being extended. Gotta give him a clean pocket as much as possible to maximize ability. I realize that's any nfl qb (clean pocket = better results).

[makila]

Coller and Zulgad. Decent listen imo. Discussing last month or two. Personally share the thoughts about rs and the wilfs. Keep telling myself to be patient. Ha. I don't get firing Rick to keep his guys, and operate similar.

Zulgad is extreme of course. With a lot of what ifs. I think there is some underlying stuff about changing the "well we could end up off worse" mentality that seems to permeate within the ownership.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3uwkDb ... =copy-link

[Frozen Rope]

KIRK!!!

Where have you been my friend. We’ve missed your astute commentary.

[JJBreaksRecords]

Like all the years Kirk has been playing already? Or is everything Zimmers fault? Did you look at the Vikings records the past few years? Part of those losses were his fault. But KOC will work miracles with someone whose main concerns are getting rich, and putting up great stats. Not wins and especially tough wins against winning teams.

Kirk controls what is in his control. Makes good passes, has a high YPA, throws TDs and doesn't throw interceptions. Definitely one of the 10 best QBs in the world and you may not like him, but Vikings management does.

Or the WIlfs do. By giving him all the money he can dream of having, no trade clauses, and short extensions. I am betting KOC wont be spending much time at all with the backup QB(s). Kirk doesnt want competition.

[Pondering Her Percy]

....the guy threw for 33 TDs. Tied for 7th in the NFL. I mean we could go back to the Teddy Bridgewater days where he's averaging 14 TDs a year

Context.

2015 team points with Bridgewater and his 14TDs: 16th in NFL
2021 team points with Cousins: 14th in NFL

The *team* on offense wasn't much better. Plus, in 2015 they actually made the playoffs too.

Bridgewater was the perfect QB for Zimmer's scheme and style of roster building, in my opinion, and I think Zimmer himself felt the same way.

Hopefully Kirk does better with a more offensive-minded coach.

ok, to better put this, we were 11th in passing offense in 2021 with Cousins. We were 31st in pass offense in 2015 with Teddy. Yeah Bridgewater was the perfect QB for Zimmer because he managed the game and did the best he could at avoiding mistakes. He was simply "just a guy" out there making sure he didnt pis# away what the defense was doing. Cousins on the other hand, was constantly going neck and neck with teams because our defense couldnt stop a nose bleed. We were putting up 25 points a game and if you look, everyone above us was in the playoffs. We were not.

Then if you look at total defense, the bottom 12 defenses were as follows:
20. Jags (No playoffs)
21. NYG (no)
22. Wash (no)
23. LAC (no)
24. Pitt (yes by fluke with Indy losing to the Jags)
25. Bal (no)
26. Atl (no)
27. KC (yes with an all-world QB)
28. Sea (no)
29. Det (no)
30. Min (no)
31. Hou (no)
32. NYJ (no)

Notice how many of these teams did not make the playoffs. The only way Cousins had a chance at getting this team in the playoffs is if he had this offense in the top 7ish in points and overall production while he's playing for a dinosaur that by no means wants anything to do with any sort of high powered offense. I think this is exactly why Zim didnt want or like Cousins. Because game managing (like Teddy) is not Cousins. Cousins is your more modern day gun slinger that will push the ball downfield.

As I've said before, the Vikings can make noise in the playoffs all day with their offense. But when their defense is near dead last, getting to .500 was a near miracle. If it wasnt for our offense we'd be much worse than 8-9. But if we can just get that defense to league average at worst and an offense that was already good, now with an offensive minded coach, we're a playoff team all day.

Sorry got a little off track there lol

[Pondering Her Percy]

FA guards being signed. Scherff to jax and Corbett to car.

We have to do something on the interior.

This is the difference between teams who are under the cap and those who aren’t.

While the Vikings are scrambling to get cap compliant by Wednesday, teams with cap space are using the legal tampering period to sign important players. By the time the Vikings have enough cap space to do anything, the best free agents will be gone.

KAM needs to change this “run up the credit card” part of the Vikings’ former culture.

Ehh I dont think that's going on. They are more than free to sign guys right now and worry about the cap after. They already did with Phillips. I guarantee they already have things in place that they are going to do like restructuring and such that just havent been announced yet.

[VikingsVictorious]

You will only post stats when they support you. I know you've seen many stats that support how good Cousins is under pressure and not under pressure and under many kinds of circumstances. You will only quote stats from this year if they're below his norms, but if they're above his norms you will state his career stats. You know you do this. You know you don't discuss in good faith.

What I was saying is that Kirk is quick to check down and not stay true to the big play route. He is quick to abandon that route and find the safety valve. It is great for padding stats. I just wish we had a better interior OL. I would like to see Kirk stay in there and utilize his throwing skills hitting the deep WR, deep can even be a 15-20 yard throw. I feel that he has to trust the route better and throw it to the spots regardless if they appear open at the time of the pass. He trusts his eyes, not the plan.
He throws to the open guy, not to the spot as often as I wish.
Hopefully KOC gets him to do so. If he does, we may see a very different KC this season.
Maybe not, but we will soon find out !

QBs are supposed to check down. I don't think Kirk is any quicker to check down than any other QB and I think his time in the pocket is one of the higher #s in the league. He's courageous enough to stand in and take the hit.

[Cliff]

ok, to better put this, we were 11th in passing offense in 2021 with Cousins. We were 31st in pass offense in 2015 with Teddy. Yeah Bridgewater was the perfect QB for Zimmer because he managed the game and did the best he could at avoiding mistakes. He was simply "just a guy" out there making sure he didnt pis# away what the defense was doing. Cousins on the other hand, was constantly going neck and neck with teams because our defense couldnt stop a nose bleed. We were putting up 25 points a game and if you look, everyone above us was in the playoffs. We were not.

Then if you look at total defense, the bottom 12 defenses were as follows:
20. Jags (No playoffs)
21. NYG (no)
22. Wash (no)
23. LAC (no)
24. Pitt (yes by fluke with Indy losing to the Jags)
25. Bal (no)
26. Atl (no)
27. KC (yes with an all-world QB)
28. Sea (no)
29. Det (no)
30. Min (no)
31. Hou (no)
32. NYJ (no)

Notice how many of these teams did not make the playoffs. The only way Cousins had a chance at getting this team in the playoffs is if he had this offense in the top 7ish in points and overall production while he's playing for a dinosaur that by no means wants anything to do with any sort of high powered offense. I think this is exactly why Zim didnt want or like Cousins. Because game managing (like Teddy) is not Cousins. Cousins is your more modern day gun slinger that will push the ball downfield.

As I've said before, the Vikings can make noise in the playoffs all day with their offense. But when their defense is near dead last, getting to .500 was a near miracle. If it wasnt for our offense we'd be much worse than 8-9. But if we can just get that defense to league average at worst and an offense that was already good, now with an offensive minded coach, we're a playoff team all day.

Sorry got a little off track there lol

I think you're selling Teddy a little short for the kind of QB he could have been in Zimmer's team and the chemistry they could have had. It wasn't just about skill. Teddy was young and moldable and bought in to Zimmer's system. I think the rest of the team also bought into Teddy. You can't oversell how important that "chain of respect" is. There was a chemistry with the entire team when Teddy was at QB that I haven't felt with Cousins. And of course we *know* it wasn't there between Cousins and Zimmer.

Sure, Kirk is the overall better quarterback but not on Mike Zimmer's team considering his contract specifically. You can't keep together a really good defense and pay a QB the way the Vikings paid/pay Kirk.

Whatever the case, the 2015 Vikings with a statistically worse QB and better team the Vikings went 11-5 and lost in the playoffs with a last second missed kick. Mike Zimmer's Vikings with much better QB play went 8-9 and missed the playoffs.

I think in hindsight it's easy to see that Kirk Cousins (and specifically his salary) did not give a Mike Zimmer coached team the best chance of winning but I also think he wouldn't give most teams the best chance under his contract. He can't elevate a team enough to dedicate that much cap to him.

[VikingsVictorious]

You will only post stats when they support you. I know you've seen many stats that support how good Cousins is under pressure and not under pressure and under many kinds of circumstances. You will only quote stats from this year if they're below his norms, but if they're above his norms you will state his career stats. You know you do this. You know you don't discuss in good faith.

Like you dont do this. And the few Cousins Crusaders here dont. I think Stumps makes good points here, that are as valid as anyone else's posts about Kirk. Kirks is a stat machine, so pro Kirks people can pick only the stats they want. But just about ever reporter I have seen say Kirk loses some control when he doesnt have a perfectly clean pocket. He checks down immediately, which improves passer ratings but does nothing for the team. And KOC is a first time ever HC, that some people think can can preform a magic trick and correct most, if not all of Kirks mistakes. Thats not going to happen. He may fix a few, and if a few is enough, we may see the playoffs. But I doubt we get close to a SB, based of the facts of Kirks record so far on the Vikings. OFC its not all his vault. but some of the fault is his. Just listen to some of his talks after the game. And what does this even mean 'You know you don't discuss in good faith' when you were talking to stump? Are you suggesting he lies? Or bends the truth to fit his narrative, like almost everyone i see here does sometime. One thing Kirk is good at is making money here, and for the most part, not a real team player, like, say, Barr and numerous other players have (Brady comes to mind).

Stump not only bends the truth to fit his narrative, but he ignores everything that doesn't. He knows the great stats, but he will disregard them and search until he finds a negative. It's disingenuous and negates any value of what he has to say. He admitted to assuming his premise and just looking for what supports his premise.

[VikingsVictorious]

Kirk controls what is in his control. Makes good passes, has a high YPA, throws TDs and doesn't throw interceptions. Definitely one of the 10 best QBs in the world and you may not like him, but Vikings management does.

Or the WIlfs do. By giving him all the money he can dream of having, no trade clauses, and short extensions. I am betting KOC wont be spending much time at all with the backup QB(s). Kirk doesnt want competition.

Kirk has no competition. He will spend time with the backups, but socially distanced and behind plexiglass.

[VikingsVictorious]

Context.

2015 team points with Bridgewater and his 14TDs: 16th in NFL
2021 team points with Cousins: 14th in NFL

The *team* on offense wasn't much better. Plus, in 2015 they actually made the playoffs too.

Bridgewater was the perfect QB for Zimmer's scheme and style of roster building, in my opinion, and I think Zimmer himself felt the same way.

Hopefully Kirk does better with a more offensive-minded coach.

ok, to better put this, we were 11th in passing offense in 2021 with Cousins. We were 31st in pass offense in 2015 with Teddy. Yeah Bridgewater was the perfect QB for Zimmer because he managed the game and did the best he could at avoiding mistakes. He was simply "just a guy" out there making sure he didnt pis# away what the defense was doing. Cousins on the other hand, was constantly going neck and neck with teams because our defense couldnt stop a nose bleed. We were putting up 25 points a game and if you look, everyone above us was in the playoffs. We were not.

Then if you look at total defense, the bottom 12 defenses were as follows:
20. Jags (No playoffs)
21. NYG (no)
22. Wash (no)
23. LAC (no)
24. Pitt (yes by fluke with Indy losing to the Jags)
25. Bal (no)
26. Atl (no)
27. KC (yes with an all-world QB)
28. Sea (no)
29. Det (no)
30. Min (no)
31. Hou (no)
32. NYJ (no)

Notice how many of these teams did not make the playoffs. The only way Cousins had a chance at getting this team in the playoffs is if he had this offense in the top 7ish in points and overall production while he's playing for a dinosaur that by no means wants anything to do with any sort of high powered offense. I think this is exactly why Zim didnt want or like Cousins. Because game managing (like Teddy) is not Cousins. Cousins is your more modern day gun slinger that will push the ball downfield.

As I've said before, the Vikings can make noise in the playoffs all day with their offense. But when their defense is near dead last, getting to .500 was a near miracle. If it wasnt for our offense we'd be much worse than 8-9. But if we can just get that defense to league average at worst and an offense that was already good, now with an offensive minded coach, we're a playoff team all day.

Sorry got a little off track there lol

Thanks for telling it like it is. I don't know if we can fix the D enough to matter, but I'm hopeful.

[halfgiz]

@TomPelissero
The ‪#Vikings‬ are signing Pro Bowl QB Kirk Cousins to a one-year, $35 million fully guaranteed extension that puts him under contract through 2023, per sources.
Cousins gets a raise to $40 million in 2022, $55 million payable by next March and a no-trade clause.

Disgusting signing Kwesi for QB of his ranking and what he has accomplished.

Cliff I agree with you on Teddy. Not as polished as Cousins, but a much better valve for the team.
His teammates respected and played hard for him.

[vikeinmontana]

Cliff I agree with you on Teddy. Not as polished as Cousins, but a much better valve for the team.
His teammates respected and played hard for him.

Just curious, are you under the impression our guys don't respect Kirk or play hard for him? I'm not saying that's what you're saying; I've just never gotten that impression.