Let's play "Reckless Speculation — Kirk Cousins Edition"

[halfgiz]

Lots of animated conversations on the sidelines with all them receivers and Cousins.

How many times have you seen a wide open receiver over the top. And Cousins checking down short of the sticks.
Every time I see it...It pisses me right off.

There is a reason Cousins is towards the bottom in NFL for 3rd down conversions.

[CharVike]

Another thing the media and nfl execs and fans say you can't win with a QB with zero mobility like our guy. Well Burrow had a grand total of 118 rushing yard. Maybe being able to pass helped? He only had 34 TDs though.

Whoever said it didn't? Pocket passers can win in this league, Brady, Brees and Manning have proven that. They just have to be that much better than their mobile counterparts at making quick decisions to overcome their athletic deficiencies. Just like a guy with an average arm has to be able to make up for not having a rocket arm by being more accurate and making better decisions. Being athletic is important to being a good QB and that isn't anything new.

Also, Burrow was the most sacked QB in the NFL this year, demonstrating that once again, it is possible to overcome poor Oline play and be successful. Just because your Oline sucks, doesn't mean your season is over.

Burrow was sacked 9 times against the titans. Most sacks ever received by a winning quarterback in an NFL playoff game. Since the OL sucked the Bengals didn't exactly light up the scoreboard.They scored 19. There D stepped up to the plate which saved the day and basically told Tannehill the game is ours. That's how you play playoff D. Don't do a Zim job and lay down and let a team destroy you. They picked that loser off 3 times. Then there FG kicker hit a 52 yard chip shot for the win after an interception. See how that works. If the Bengals defense played like crap they would have been killed. If there kicker was unable to hit the 52 yard chip shot say good night. He also duffed a 54 yarder in there earlier. There defense allowed 1 3rd down conversion all day. There OL sucked and the O did basically nothing. Put up one TD. Like always QBs don't play at there top level when the heat is on. Burrow who is a great young QB is no exception. That's why OL is important. But the D and ST stepped up and won the game for them.

[StumpHunter]

Whoever said it didn't? Pocket passers can win in this league, Brady, Brees and Manning have proven that. They just have to be that much better than their mobile counterparts at making quick decisions to overcome their athletic deficiencies. Just like a guy with an average arm has to be able to make up for not having a rocket arm by being more accurate and making better decisions. Being athletic is important to being a good QB and that isn't anything new.

Also, Burrow was the most sacked QB in the NFL this year, demonstrating that once again, it is possible to overcome poor Oline play and be successful. Just because your Oline sucks, doesn't mean your season is over.

Burrow was sacked 9 times against the titans. Most sacks ever received by a winning quarterback in an NFL playoff game. Since the OL sucked the Bengals didn't exactly light up the scoreboard.They scored 19. There D stepped up to the plate which saved the day and basically told Tannehill the game is ours. That's how you play playoff D. Don't do a Zim job and lay down and let a team destroy you. They picked that loser off 3 times. Then there FG kicker hit a 52 yard chip shot for the win after an interception. See how that works. If the Bengals defense played like crap they would have been killed. If there kicker was unable to hit the 52 yard chip shot say good night. He also duffed a 54 yarder in there earlier. There defense allowed 1 3rd down conversion all day. There OL sucked and the O did basically nothing. Put up one TD. Like always QBs don't play at there top level when the heat is on. Burrow who is a great young QB is no exception. That's why OL is important. But the D and ST stepped up and won the game for them.

Oline is so important that the worst one in the NFL is going to the SB? Interesting. Zimmer's "crap the bed" defense averaged giving up 22.4 points in the playoffs, a number below what Cinci's playoff D gave up in the AFCCG.

Even with a really good D, or a somewhat soft playoff schedule (or as soft as a playoff schedule can get), eventually you are going to run into an offense that forces you to put up points. Like Cincy did against KC. Like LA did against TB.

Defense is important to winning it all, but in the end most playoff games come down to which offense can make the most plays or even which offense can make a play last.

[CharVike]

Burrow was sacked 9 times against the titans. Most sacks ever received by a winning quarterback in an NFL playoff game. Since the OL sucked the Bengals didn't exactly light up the scoreboard.They scored 19. There D stepped up to the plate which saved the day and basically told Tannehill the game is ours. That's how you play playoff D. Don't do a Zim job and lay down and let a team destroy you. They picked that loser off 3 times. Then there FG kicker hit a 52 yard chip shot for the win after an interception. See how that works. If the Bengals defense played like crap they would have been killed. If there kicker was unable to hit the 52 yard chip shot say good night. He also duffed a 54 yarder in there earlier. There defense allowed 1 3rd down conversion all day. There OL sucked and the O did basically nothing. Put up one TD. Like always QBs don't play at there top level when the heat is on. Burrow who is a great young QB is no exception. That's why OL is important. But the D and ST stepped up and won the game for them.

Oline is so important that the worst one in the NFL is going to the SB? Interesting. Zimmer's "crap the bed" defense averaged giving up 22.4 points in the playoffs, a number below what Cinci's playoff D gave up in the AFCCG.

Even with a really good D, or a somewhat soft playoff schedule (or as soft as a playoff schedule can get), eventually you are going to run into an offense that forces you to put up points. Like Cincy did against KC. Like LA did against TB.

Defense is important to winning it all, but in the end most playoff games come down to which offense can make the most plays or even which offense can make a play last.

The worst OL was the Dolphins. They didn't make the playoffs. KC was putting up 42 points a game in their first 2 playoff games. The Bengals allowed them only to put up 24. About half of what they averaged in the playoffs. They also picked off loser Mahomes in overtime to setup the game winning FG. That's playoff D. Zim's D was ranked No 1 in 2017 and even shut out the Packers which we had never done in our history. They only allowed Stafford to put up 9 points in each of the games we played them. One game sacking Super Bowl Stafford 10 times. He had no pocket awareness that game. He was a bum. The heat got to him. Couldn't function and that will happen to every QB I have ever seen play this game. The LOS battle is key. Zim's great D was destroyed by a bum backup QB in the NFC Champ game. That D was never the same after that. Then Griff fell off the cliff and Rhodes lost his pro bowl skill level.
OL rankings from PFF. 7 out of the top 10 OL teams made the playoffs. 2 of the bottom 10 made the playoffs and were dumped quickly. See how that works. The Bengals were ranked No 20 which blows but there D and ST stepped up and pulled that team to the show. There FG kicker was making them from everywhere. As Viking fans we all know how important a FG kicker is to victory. We had a game against the Pack where we had our usual stiff FG kicker who couldn't make a kick that day. We had a 22 point 4th quarter to tie the game. Capt Kirk lead the comeback. Instead of going for the TD in OT Zim elected to settle for the game winning FG and the stiff kicker we had who couldn't make a kick all day missed the chip shot. Another lose for loser Kirk. It would help if the FG kicker could hit once in a blue moon. I'm not talking all time record length either. Chip shot for a pro. But that's making excuses for loser Kirk.
Bottom line good for the Bengals they have their 15-20 year QB in place. They played great on all levels to make the Super Bowl. That's what it takes. You need to play well across the board or you will get beat. I thought the 49ers would make it but that Ram team has a dam good OL and didn't allow that 49er D to get Stafford who has no pocket awareness. The Packers middle of the road OL was dominated by that 49er D and there HOF QB didn't do much. Cried like a baby. Again as it always does the heat was too much and he couldn't perform at his HOF level. It always works that way. A team needs to block.

[StumpHunter]

Oline is so important that the worst one in the NFL is going to the SB? Interesting. Zimmer's "crap the bed" defense averaged giving up 22.4 points in the playoffs, a number below what Cinci's playoff D gave up in the AFCCG.

Even with a really good D, or a somewhat soft playoff schedule (or as soft as a playoff schedule can get), eventually you are going to run into an offense that forces you to put up points. Like Cincy did against KC. Like LA did against TB.

Defense is important to winning it all, but in the end most playoff games come down to which offense can make the most plays or even which offense can make a play last.

OL rankings from PFF. 7 out of the top 10 OL teams made the playoffs. 2 of the bottom 10 made the playoffs and were dumped quickly. See how that works.

I see how it works. When it suits your argument, PFF is the standard, when it doesn't sacks is the most important, and when that doesn't work, it is the good old eye test.

PFF is just an indicator of how good an Oline is, it isn't the gold standard. It is evidence of something, but not absolute. An Oline ranked #1 in PFF means that Oline was actually pretty good, but it does not mean it produced the best results in that given season. Just like the 32nd ranked Oline didn't necessarily produce the worst results. They were likely bad, but other lines could have performed worse. PFF is not results driven and is meant to be an indicator of how well an individual played. That means when it is used with units, like the Oline, it is just averaging out how well the individuals played on that line, not how well the Oline as a unit played. It also doesn't really care if a LT gets beat 4 seconds after the ball was snapped or if he got beat immediately. Both will get the Olineman a negative grade, but one is much more catastrophic. That is what I mean when I say not results driven. PFF doesn't care if a LT let the DE blow by them on the snap and get his QB strip sacked versus he held his block long enough for a play to be made before his QB held the ball too long and he eventually go beat for a sack. Fans care. Teams care. PFF doesn't.

A QB getting sacked 62 times, 15 times more than the next highest QB (who played for the #1 seed in the AFC, btw), and the second highest of any QB in the past 10 years, is pretty absolute though. Burrows line was the worst in the NFL, and they are in the SB because their QB didn't curl up into the fetal position when he was sacked 9 times, and in the AFCCG he adjusted and got the ball out in under 2.5 seconds the majority of time to make sure the pressure didn't get to him. Being that bad was impactful and could bite them in the butt in the SB, and Cinci should look to improve their oline next off season, but the success of the Bengals this year proves that a great Oline is not required to be successful. It helps, it is not required and there are more important things to worry about.

[CharVike]

OL rankings from PFF. 7 out of the top 10 OL teams made the playoffs. 2 of the bottom 10 made the playoffs and were dumped quickly. See how that works.

I see how it works. When it suits your argument, PFF is the standard, when it doesn't sacks is the most important, and when that doesn't work, it is the good old eye test.

PFF is just an indicator of how good an Oline is, it isn't the gold standard. It is evidence of something, but not absolute. An Oline ranked #1 in PFF means that Oline was actually pretty good, but it does not mean it produced the best results in that given season. Just like the 32nd ranked Oline didn't necessarily produce the worst results. They were likely bad, but other lines could have performed worse. PFF is not results driven and is meant to be an indicator of how well an individual played. That means when it is used with units, like the Oline, it is just averaging out how well the individuals played on that line, not how well the Oline as a unit played. It also doesn't really care if a LT gets beat 4 seconds after the ball was snapped or if he got beat immediately. Both will get the Olineman a negative grade, but one is much more catastrophic. That is what I mean when I say not results driven. PFF doesn't care if a LT let the DE blow by them on the snap and get his QB strip sacked versus he held his block long enough for a play to be made before his QB held the ball too long and he eventually go beat for a sack. Fans care. Teams care. PFF doesn't.

A QB getting sacked 62 times, 15 times more than the next highest QB (who played for the #1 seed in the AFC, btw), and the second highest of any QB in the past 10 years, is pretty absolute though. Burrows line was the worst in the NFL, and they are in the SB because their QB didn't curl up into the fetal position when he was sacked 9 times, and in the AFCCG he adjusted and got the ball out in under 2.5 seconds the majority of time to make sure the pressure didn't get to him. Being that bad was impactful and could bite them in the butt in the SB, and Cinci should look to improve their oline next off season, but the success of the Bengals this year proves that a great Oline is not required to be successful. It helps, it is not required and there are more important things to worry about.

I agree with what you posted. Having a top 10 OL is not required but it helps. The Bengals are a perfect example of a team getting hot at the right time. They played good to great at all levels. They also have some very good talent on that team. A good young QB, a game breaking WR and a good all around back in Mixon. There OL is a problem and the one part that could cause the offense to struggle and that was showed when they only put up 1 TD during the 9 sack game. That's not a knock on Burrow either. He's lucky he survived the beaten he took. There defense really stepped up for the stretch which is always needed. They only gave up 3 points to the Chiefs in the 2nd half. That was after getting smoked in the 1st half. I guess it was coaching that played a role but I'm not sure. They were an average D for the season. Something happened. Plus Evan McPherson is about as good as it gets. He don't miss much and distance don't concern him. McPherson's 12-of-12 playoff field goals set the record for most field goals made by a rookie, as well as the all time record for most field goals made without any misses in a single postseason. That right there is a tremendous advantage. If they had our bum they never would have made it.

[IIsweet]

So this could be an interesting take on things...
I am getting the numbers from: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings/

We may keep Cousins but I could see a crazy overhaul on the defensive side of the ball....
Cutting players that do not fit a 3-4 alignment and ones that are old.
So lets cut Post June 1 !!!!
Player - Cap Savings
Hunter - $20,000,000
Smith - $11,550,000
Kendricks - $9,500,000
Pierce - $8,500,000
Tomlinson - $5,000,000
Barr - $4,495,000
Watts - $2,540,000
_____________________________________________
Total - $61, 585,000

On offensive side of ball would consider:
Thielen - $12,645,000
Cook - $8,500,000
_____________________________________________
Total - $21,145,000

So that can save $82,730,000. Obviously we do not need to cut all of them, but if keeping Cousins is what KOC wants to do, it is definitely feasible. I look at also bringing in Donatell and Pettine with 3-4 backgrounds and who we have that can fit. With the above cap savings, I would look at keeping Barr (who I think is a perfect 3-4 OLB), Tomlinson can anchor in the middle of the DL, Kendricks is a lot but is a great MLB, but I would release the others. That saves $42,590,000 by cutting Hunter, Smith, Pierce, Watts. Now, restructure Thielen and pay Cook which is not a horrible hit.

BTW, we are looking at already being $83 million under the cap in 2023 as of right now !

[J. Kapp 11]

More news on the Cousins front. From Courtney Cronin.

From what I’m hearing, I would not be surprised to see Cousins’ camp try to force the Vikings’ hand by not wanting to go back to the negotiating table just yet. That means he’d play out his expensive contract or force the team to trade him.

I think that's an angle we hadn't considered ... that Cousins might not want to renegotiate. If that's the case (please ... I said IF) then he'll force the Vikings hand. They can't keep the guy on a $45 million contract and risk letting him walk for nothing. Or am I wrong?

[halfgiz]

If there ever was a year for trading Cousins. I think this is the year to do it. Especially after what Stafford done this year.

[CharVike]

If there ever was a year for trading Cousins. I think this is the year to do it. Especially after what Stafford done this year.

We could trade Cousins easily. The NFL needs QBs very badly. Cousins CAP hit is bad but if a team has a shot they can make it work. Some act like Cousins is paid double or triple of everybody else. That not the case. Some feel his stats are inflated. Every QB has 30+ TDs. But Cousins got his by inflation. You would think they would all do that and make more money. I wonder why they don't. Here's the problem with trading him. We have nothing behind him. Other offensive players will suffer like JJ did against GB when Cousins didn't play. Nobody sees that stuff. Plus if we do get hot at the right time it won't matter with no QB.

[StumpHunter]

If there ever was a year for trading Cousins. I think this is the year to do it. Especially after what Stafford done this year.

We could trade Cousins easily. The NFL needs QBs very badly. Cousins CAP hit is bad but if a team has a shot they can make it work. Some act like Cousins is paid double or triple of everybody else. That not the case. Some feel his stats are inflated. Every QB has 30+ TDs. But Cousins got his by inflation. You would think they would all do that and make more money. I wonder why they don't. Here's the problem with trading him. We have nothing behind him. Other offensive players will suffer like JJ did against GB when Cousins didn't play. Nobody sees that stuff. Plus if we do get hot at the right time it won't matter with no QB.

Well, Carson Wentz just threw 27 TDs on 50 fewer attempts and is likely going to be cut by the Colts.

Gardner Minshew has actually thrown more TDs per start than Cousins has in his career and he is a backup.

I think if you put either one of those QBs in our offense they put up similar passing TDs as Cousins, even if the offense takes a step back.

Passing TDs is an important stat, but if you don't have offensive success to go along with those stats, those stats are probably inflated. We were 16th in scoring efficiency last season with a top 5 RB. The only other average or worse offenses with similar RBs were Pitt, Cleveland, and Washington. Old, broken down QB, injured QB, backup QB.

[halfgiz]

Char Vike

I figure that if Cousins gets traded, The staff will have a plan in place for a QB.
The next QB doesn’t have to be better than Cousins, he has to give the Vikings more value per dollar than Cousins. He has to be good enough that they can restocked roster so they can win.


What exactly has Cousins accomplished in the 4 years he has been here?

[CharVike]

We could trade Cousins easily. The NFL needs QBs very badly. Cousins CAP hit is bad but if a team has a shot they can make it work. Some act like Cousins is paid double or triple of everybody else. That not the case. Some feel his stats are inflated. Every QB has 30+ TDs. But Cousins got his by inflation. You would think they would all do that and make more money. I wonder why they don't. Here's the problem with trading him. We have nothing behind him. Other offensive players will suffer like JJ did against GB when Cousins didn't play. Nobody sees that stuff. Plus if we do get hot at the right time it won't matter with no QB.

Well, Carson Wentz just threw 27 TDs on 50 fewer attempts and is likely going to be cut by the Colts.

Gardner Minshew has actually thrown more TDs per start than Cousins has in his career and he is a backup.

I think if you put either one of those QBs in our offense they put up similar passing TDs as Cousins, even if the offense takes a step back.

Passing TDs is an important stat, but if you don't have offensive success to go along with those stats, those stats are probably inflated. We were 16th in scoring efficiency last season with a top 5 RB. The only other average or worse offenses with similar RBs were Pitt, Cleveland, and Washington. Old, broken down QB, injured QB, backup QB.

We avg 25 points per game. Packers avg 26.5 with a HOF MVP QB 39 TDs. Dak was the best as the Boys average 31.2 he tossed 40 TDs. He sucked in the playoffs and they got beat at home. The Bucs 30.1. Brady 43 TDs. Sometimes stats work.
The Packers were a point better than us with a HOF MVP year QB and most would say why didn't we win more. Well our defense and special teams were worthless. I seen that bum Dantzler just stand there in the end zone and just let a guy from the Lions catch a TD pass in front of him game over. Just stood there. The Packers actually played good D and even played great in the playoffs. That D stepped up and held the 49ers down. We never had a D under Zim that could do that. They always backed down. There special teams cost them. The 49ers D won the LOS battle and stuffed Rodgers. They didn't play well on all three levels and paid the price. That will happen most of the time unless your playing a bad team.
25 points a game isn't horrible the bottom was 14.9 now. Now that's horrible.
As for Cook he started 14 games. Sound familiar?

[CharVike]

Lots of animated conversations on the sidelines with all them receivers and Cousins.

How many times have you seen a wide open receiver over the top. And Cousins checking down short of the sticks.
Every time I see it...It pisses me right off.

There is a reason Cousins is towards the bottom in NFL for 3rd down conversions.

The worst game was against Dallas when we were 1 of 13 on 3rd down. That's almost impossible bad. Was he seeing ghost out there? The avg per attempt was 8.1 yards. Not the best but it wasn't 3rd and 20 all the time. Who knows.

[CharVike]

Lots of animated conversations on the sidelines with all them receivers and Cousins.

How many times have you seen a wide open receiver over the top. And Cousins checking down short of the sticks.
Every time I see it...It pisses me right off.

There is a reason Cousins is towards the bottom in NFL for 3rd down conversions.

The worst game was against Dallas when we were 1 of 13 on 3rd down. That's almost impossible bad. Was he seeing ghost out there? The avg per attempt was 8.1 yards. Not the best but it wasn't 3rd and 20 all the time. Who knows.

The best Cousins was at 3rd down conversions with us was 2019 he was No 9. He sucked every other year. Case was No 1 in 2017. I never would have guessed that one. Almost shocking. It made him about 15 million.They all want money. Good for Kessum. I guess that's why Elway signed him. Every team knows this stuff. If a team values 3rd down conversions Cousins is not the QB you want. That will knock almost every team off the list for a trade.