Vikings vs. Rams

[808vikingsfan]

Lol you guys are off your rockers. It’s a choice but not a personal one? Uh, what? But yeah Adam f###ing Thielen is a selfish player The colts are 8-2 in their last 10 games but lost Nelson and Leonard to covid and being unvaccinated. Arguably their two best players. Gotta cut them! Can’t build a cohesive team with those two a-holes. My eyes couldn’t roll back further into my own head

I don't agree with you often, but I do here.

The rules around vaccinated versus unvaccinated players are based on outdated science and are a big reason Covid is spreading so quickly across the NFL. If the NFL tested everyone daily, instead of just the unvaccinated, the spread would have gone down significantly, they know this, yet that isn't their policy. Why? Because it isn't about stopping the spread, it is about optics. If you have a beef with Covid affecting your favorite team, it shouldn't be with the players being infected, it should be with the NFL not doing enough to stop the spread.

It doesn't matter. The NFL laid their rules down for whatever reason. Some decided to risk their availability by not getting the vaccine. That's not thinking of the team and the ultimate goal. Just look at what happened to the VIkings on Sunday. There were gaping holes at times that Cook could have took advantage of. It was their playoff game and Cook had to miss it because what? All the practices, the sweat, missing family time for each individual of the organization. because of what?

But I do agree with you, they should be testing everyone, Omicron is blowing over the current NFL protocols.

[CharVike]

Interesting to read that a defense that essentially scored 10 of our 23 points, and held the #1 scoring offense in the NFL to 23 points was part of the issue yesterday.

To put what the D did in perspective, the Rams, prior to this game averaged 2.78 points per drive. The Vikings D gave up 2.09 points per drive, almost a full point less than they typically give up. For those of you who struggle with per drive stats, if the Vikings had given up per drive what the Rams average, not at their best, but on their average day score, they would have given up 31 points.

It was an outstanding day for the D, and a running back picking up 131 yards in a game where the O struggled to move the football for most of the game doesn't change that.

Offensively, the Vikings O scored 13 points that weren't because of the D. That is 1.3 points per drive on the 10 other drives where they weren't gifted scores, .6 less than the LAR give up per drive on average.

Our offense sucked yesterday despite the D doing its job. The D came to play, the O did not.

I’m glad to see that someone saw the same thing I did.

When was the last time the Minnesota Vikings lost a game to a team whose quarterback had a 46 passer rating? Sure, that could’ve been awfulness by Stafford, or crappy playcalling by Sean McVea, but the fact remains that the defense gave up 23 points, plenty good enough to win, and the Vikings’ offense went 2-5 in the red zone despite getting two takeaways inside the 10.

Nobody is mistaking yesterday’s defense for the 2017 Vikings. But they played well enough to win. The offense did not.

I've seen Stafford play many games. Bring pressure and he'll throw some int. He gets in spells and he just don't play very well. He was in that yesterday at times and especially when there was heat. But our D has had some bad games lately. Packers 31 4 TD passes, 49ers 34 1 TD pass, Lions 29 3 TD passes, Steelers 28 3 TD passes, Bears well Field blows so basically nothing. We were giving up 30 + against teams. That is not good D by any stretch. But or O blows and it comes down to getting destroyed at the LOS. Cook was out but he avg 3.2 a carry against the Bears. People can knock Matti but he's a decent player and I've seen him get yards but yesterday 3.2 a pop. Back to back games nothing on the ground. Someone posted Matti had huge holes. If he had huge holes he would have gain yards. He had some nice runs. Cousins was sacked when Bradbury trip somebody deep in the Rams side of the field. I saw the play and you can blame it on the QB or call it what it was. No blocking and a penalty to boot. This O will blow unless they start blocking. That's football 101. Ground game and passing game will struggle. Last two weeks nothing on the ground.

[J. Kapp 11]

Some more info on the Vikings' season following the loss to the Rams, thanks to Chad Graf at The Athletic.

• The Vikings have had 4 chances to go over .500 this year. They're 0-4 in those games.

• The Vikings would be 11-3-1 if the last two minutes of each half were eliminated.

• The Vikings gained more yards on fewer plays than the Rams yet never had control of the game (didn't lead at any point, for the first time this season).

• Matthew Stafford had four turnover-worthy plays, according to PFF, and that DID NOT include batted balls. The Vikings came away with only one turnover on those plays. Cameron Dantzler and Camryn Bynum had drops of easy picks.

• In total, the Vikings had seven interception opportunities against the Rams. They ended up with just 3 interceptions.

• The Vikings have played in 10 games this year where they trailed at some point in the fourth quarter. They tied or took the lead in seven of them. Of those seven, they held on to win only twice.

• Like the entire season, the Vikings were terrible against the Rams after a sudden change of possession (turnover). The Vikings have forced 21 turnovers this season, 8th best in the NFL. But they're only 22nd in touchdowns off turnovers, and first in punts off turnovers.

• In NFL games where one team has a turnover margin of +2 or greater, teams have won 87.5 percent of games over the past 5 years. Over that same time period, the Vikings have won 57.1 percent, which is 31st in the NFL.

These are great examples of why we Vikings fans are so frustrated. At the 10,000-foot view, we look great. We rank reasonably high in things like passing efficiency, yards per play, turnover margin and field position. But we fail at the wrong times, over and over and over. We give up things like punt returns for touchdowns or holding penalties at inopportune moments, and we flounder when we get those turnovers. We gain 6 yards on 3rd-and-10, and we fall apart at the end of halves.

Teams that are well coached don't do these things. In the most important moments, they play their best football. Their focus is razor-sharp. Their execution is at a zenith. They don't freelance, but do their jobs.

Mike Zimmer was a good coach for awhile. He changed the culture. He rebuilt the defense and did some things that culminated in a really good season in 2017. But like bread in the grocery store, every coach not named Bill Belichick has a shelf life. Zimmer has exceeded his. Time for a new loaf of bread.

[StumpHunter]

Mike Zimmer was a good coach for awhile. He changed the culture. He rebuilt the defense and did some things that culminated in a really good season in 2017. But like bread in the grocery store, every coach not named Bill Belichick has a shelf life. Zimmer has exceeded his. Time for a new loaf of bread.

Even in Grant's final 7 seasons he only had 2 defenses in the top half of the league in scoring and 0 in the top 10. His last 6 seasons he failed to win more than 9 games in a season.

Whether it is complacency, the league figuring a coach out or something else, you are right, coaches, with few exceptions, just lose their effectiveness after a time.

[VikingLord]

We had 8 passes defended, which I believe was a season high. So if you didn’t see good coverage, I would suggest you simply missed it.

I must have missed it. I'm not trying to be facetious or anything. I honestly don't recall seeing particularly good coverage from the secondary. Dantzler and Alexander in particular stood out giving wide cushions consistently, falling down, failing to close down. I recall seeing Ram receivers running wide open several times. Those things stand out more than 8 passes defensed, but maybe at this point in the season I'm just more inclined to remember the failures than the successes.

Never once did I say the defense was good enough, which I assume you mean in an overall sense for the season. It’s not a championship defense. But in this game, yes it was good enough to win. The Vikings gave up 359 total yards (just 159 in the second half), which is a shade over what the Rams’ defense averages this season (they rank 15th in yards). In this era of offense, that’s pretty decent. Our defense gave up 23 points (the other 7 came on the punt return). Again, not dominating, but good enough to win.

I think you're right. I think the defense did play well enough to win had the offense held up its end of the bargain and the special teams did as well.

It still wasn't good defense, though. The Rams did what they wanted on the ground and the Vikings couldn't stop it. Not early and not late either, and that has been going on all year against pretty much every team they've faced, especially at the end of the halves. Horrific breakdowns all year.

[Maelstrom88]

Some more info on the Vikings' season following the loss to the Rams, thanks to Chad Graf at The Athletic.

• The Vikings have had 4 chances to go over .500 this year. They're 0-4 in those games.

• The Vikings would be 11-3-1 if the last two minutes of each half were eliminated.

• The Vikings gained more yards on fewer plays than the Rams yet never had control of the game (didn't lead at any point, for the first time this season).

• Matthew Stafford had four turnover-worthy plays, according to PFF, and that DID NOT include batted balls. The Vikings came away with only one turnover on those plays. Cameron Dantzler and Camryn Bynum had drops of easy picks.

• In total, the Vikings had seven interception opportunities against the Rams. They ended up with just 3 interceptions.

• The Vikings have played in 10 games this year where they trailed at some point in the fourth quarter. They tied or took the lead in seven of them. Of those seven, they held on to win only twice.

• Like the entire season, the Vikings were terrible against the Rams after a sudden change of possession (turnover). The Vikings have forced 21 turnovers this season, 8th best in the NFL. But they're only 22nd in touchdowns off turnovers, and first in punts off turnovers.

• In NFL games where one team has a turnover margin of +2 or greater, teams have won 87.5 percent of games over the past 5 years. Over that same time period, the Vikings have won 57.1 percent, which is 31st in the NFL.

These are great examples of why we Vikings fans are so frustrated. At the 10,000-foot view, we look great. We rank reasonably high in things like passing efficiency, yards per play, turnover margin and field position. But we fail at the wrong times, over and over and over. We give up things like punt returns for touchdowns or holding penalties at inopportune moments, and we flounder when we get those turnovers. We gain 6 yards on 3rd-and-10, and we fall apart at the end of halves.

Teams that are well coached don't do these things. In the most important moments, they play their best football. Their focus is razor-sharp. Their execution is at a zenith. They don't freelance, but do their jobs.

Mike Zimmer was a good coach for awhile. He changed the culture. He rebuilt the defense and did some things that culminated in a really good season in 2017. But like bread in the grocery store, every coach not named Bill Belichick has a shelf life. Zimmer has exceeded his. Time for a new loaf of bread.

Sure would be nice to have a cornerback with hands like Trevon Diggs. Our coach made drafting him impossible though. They're really lucky they drafted JJ to replace Stefon or they'd all have been fired already ( by competent owners, which I'm not sure we have). Sure, the Wilfs have helped get some nice buildings (with taxpayer dollars) but as far as aggressively pursuing a championship... that remains to be seen.

[J. Kapp 11]

We had 8 passes defended, which I believe was a season high. So if you didn’t see good coverage, I would suggest you simply missed it.

I must have missed it. I'm not trying to be facetious or anything. I honestly don't recall seeing particularly good coverage from the secondary. Dantzler and Alexander in particular stood out giving wide cushions consistently, falling down, failing to close down. I recall seeing Ram receivers running wide open several times. Those things stand out more than 8 passes defensed, but maybe at this point in the season I'm just more inclined to remember the failures than the successes.

Never once did I say the defense was good enough, which I assume you mean in an overall sense for the season. It’s not a championship defense. But in this game, yes it was good enough to win. The Vikings gave up 359 total yards (just 159 in the second half), which is a shade over what the Rams’ defense averages this season (they rank 15th in yards). In this era of offense, that’s pretty decent. Our defense gave up 23 points (the other 7 came on the punt return). Again, not dominating, but good enough to win.

I think you're right. I think the defense did play well enough to win had the offense held up its end of the bargain and the special teams did as well.

It still wasn't good defense, though. The Rams did what they wanted on the ground and the Vikings couldn't stop it. Not early and not late either, and that has been going on all year against pretty much every team they've faced, especially at the end of the halves. Horrific breakdowns all year.

You've hit the nail on the head with what I think is going on here. This team has conditioned us to remember the failures. In fact, I'd say they've conditioned us to expect failure.

And I agree, the most frustrating thing about this season has been the defense. Yes, the offense at times has no sense of itself. By and large, Klint Kubiak has been awful as a playcaller. But there's so much talent on the offensive side of the ball that they still consistently put up 25+ points.

But the defense. Ugh.

What's most infuriating to me is their failure to perform in crucial situations. When the Vikings lead late. At the end of halves. Big third downs. I've never seen a team that can rank in the top of the league in stopping opponents on third down, but when it's at a crucial point in the game, they ALWAYS give up the first down. And fourth down? Forget about it. We're gonna give it up, almost every time. I sometimes wonder why opposing coaches ever kick field goals against us. Look at that fourth-and-short after the challenge by Zimmer. Stafford fumbles the snap and still picks it up.

Also high on the list is this team's inability to stop the run. You've got Michael Pierce, Dalvin Tomlinson and Eric Kendricks in the middle, yet opponents somehow gash us time after time inside the tackles. I don't remember a lot of really long runs, like 25 yards or more. But there are TONS of 8, 9, 10, 12 yard runs. The kind that give an offense momentum, especially on early downs, and lead to long, time-consuming drives. It's so deflating.

So yeah, I get it. Sony Michel running for 130 yards is not a good look. But the defense did manage to keep a fairly explosive Rams offense at bay. It was not good enough defense to win a championship, or even a playoff game. But it was good enough to win this game. Of course, for all intents and purposes, this WAS the Vikings playoff game.

I don't know. The only thing I do know is that this team, as currently constructed, is not working.

[Maelstrom88]

So are Pierce, Tomlinson, and Kendricks overrated or is it the fault of other players not doing their job? Anyone really looked into the film?

[Pondering Her Percy]

Some more info on the Vikings' season following the loss to the Rams, thanks to Chad Graf at The Athletic.

• The Vikings have had 4 chances to go over .500 this year. They're 0-4 in those games.

• The Vikings would be 11-3-1 if the last two minutes of each half were eliminated.

• The Vikings gained more yards on fewer plays than the Rams yet never had control of the game (didn't lead at any point, for the first time this season).

• Matthew Stafford had four turnover-worthy plays, according to PFF, and that DID NOT include batted balls. The Vikings came away with only one turnover on those plays. Cameron Dantzler and Camryn Bynum had drops of easy picks.

• In total, the Vikings had seven interception opportunities against the Rams. They ended up with just 3 interceptions.

• The Vikings have played in 10 games this year where they trailed at some point in the fourth quarter. They tied or took the lead in seven of them. Of those seven, they held on to win only twice.

• Like the entire season, the Vikings were terrible against the Rams after a sudden change of possession (turnover). The Vikings have forced 21 turnovers this season, 8th best in the NFL. But they're only 22nd in touchdowns off turnovers, and first in punts off turnovers.

• In NFL games where one team has a turnover margin of +2 or greater, teams have won 87.5 percent of games over the past 5 years. Over that same time period, the Vikings have won 57.1 percent, which is 31st in the NFL.

These are great examples of why we Vikings fans are so frustrated. At the 10,000-foot view, we look great. We rank reasonably high in things like passing efficiency, yards per play, turnover margin and field position. But we fail at the wrong times, over and over and over. We give up things like punt returns for touchdowns or holding penalties at inopportune moments, and we flounder when we get those turnovers. We gain 6 yards on 3rd-and-10, and we fall apart at the end of halves.

Teams that are well coached don't do these things. In the most important moments, they play their best football. Their focus is razor-sharp. Their execution is at a zenith. They don't freelance, but do their jobs.

Mike Zimmer was a good coach for awhile. He changed the culture. He rebuilt the defense and did some things that culminated in a really good season in 2017. But like bread in the grocery store, every coach not named Bill Belichick has a shelf life. Zimmer has exceeded his. Time for a new loaf of bread.

Sure would be nice to have a cornerback with hands like Trevon Diggs. Our coach made drafting him impossible though. They're really lucky they drafted JJ to replace Stefon or they'd all have been fired already ( by competent owners, which I'm not sure we have). Sure, the Wilfs have helped get some nice buildings (with taxpayer dollars) but as far as aggressively pursuing a championship... that remains to be seen.

Yeah but Diggs is also Marcus Peters 2.0. A gambling corner that gets a bunch of picks but also gives up a ridiculous amount of yards. He has given up 962 yards already this year. Not sure where that ranks now but I know as of like week 10, he gave up the most yards of any corner in the entire nfl.

It was the great debate we use to have with Trae Waynes and Peters. And it’s why I said I would’ve taken Waynes over him any day. When you’re giving up that many yards it cancels out the picks

[StumpHunter]

So are Pierce, Tomlinson, and Kendricks overrated or is it the fault of other players not doing their job? Anyone really looked into the film?

Pierce has been our best pass rusher in the few snaps he has played this year but hasn't really helped against the run. Tomlinson is just okay against the run and does nothing against the pass. Kendricks is still great.

The biggest issue is the defensive ends. They suck.

[CharVike]

Some more info on the Vikings' season following the loss to the Rams, thanks to Chad Graf at The Athletic.

• The Vikings have had 4 chances to go over .500 this year. They're 0-4 in those games.

• The Vikings would be 11-3-1 if the last two minutes of each half were eliminated.

• The Vikings gained more yards on fewer plays than the Rams yet never had control of the game (didn't lead at any point, for the first time this season).

• Matthew Stafford had four turnover-worthy plays, according to PFF, and that DID NOT include batted balls. The Vikings came away with only one turnover on those plays. Cameron Dantzler and Camryn Bynum had drops of easy picks.

• In total, the Vikings had seven interception opportunities against the Rams. They ended up with just 3 interceptions.

• The Vikings have played in 10 games this year where they trailed at some point in the fourth quarter. They tied or took the lead in seven of them. Of those seven, they held on to win only twice.

• Like the entire season, the Vikings were terrible against the Rams after a sudden change of possession (turnover). The Vikings have forced 21 turnovers this season, 8th best in the NFL. But they're only 22nd in touchdowns off turnovers, and first in punts off turnovers.

• In NFL games where one team has a turnover margin of +2 or greater, teams have won 87.5 percent of games over the past 5 years. Over that same time period, the Vikings have won 57.1 percent, which is 31st in the NFL.

These are great examples of why we Vikings fans are so frustrated. At the 10,000-foot view, we look great. We rank reasonably high in things like passing efficiency, yards per play, turnover margin and field position. But we fail at the wrong times, over and over and over. We give up things like punt returns for touchdowns or holding penalties at inopportune moments, and we flounder when we get those turnovers. We gain 6 yards on 3rd-and-10, and we fall apart at the end of halves.

Teams that are well coached don't do these things. In the most important moments, they play their best football. Their focus is razor-sharp. Their execution is at a zenith. They don't freelance, but do their jobs.

Mike Zimmer was a good coach for awhile. He changed the culture. He rebuilt the defense and did some things that culminated in a really good season in 2017. But like bread in the grocery store, every coach not named Bill Belichick has a shelf life. Zimmer has exceeded his. Time for a new loaf of bread.

Sure would be nice to have a cornerback with hands like Trevon Diggs. Our coach made drafting him impossible though. They're really lucky they drafted JJ to replace Stefon or they'd all have been fired already ( by competent owners, which I'm not sure we have). Sure, the Wilfs have helped get some nice buildings (with taxpayer dollars) but as far as aggressively pursuing a championship... that remains to be seen.

I think the Wilf's have shown aggression in pursing a championship. They allowed us to sign Cousins in FA. He wasn't a cheap signing by any stretch. Our defense signed some expensive guys. I think they want to win.

[StumpHunter]

Sure would be nice to have a cornerback with hands like Trevon Diggs. Our coach made drafting him impossible though. They're really lucky they drafted JJ to replace Stefon or they'd all have been fired already ( by competent owners, which I'm not sure we have). Sure, the Wilfs have helped get some nice buildings (with taxpayer dollars) but as far as aggressively pursuing a championship... that remains to be seen.

I think the Wilf's have shown aggression in pursing a championship. They allowed us to sign Cousins in FA. He wasn't a cheap signing by any stretch. Our defense signed some expensive guys. I think they want to win.

Spending big in free agency is not a sign of a GM dedicated to winning. Almost every owner spends up to the cap. This isn't baseball where an owner can spend significantly more on free agents to win.

Where the Wilfs can prove they are dedicated to winning is not allow their GM to sign a QB like Cousins to a contract that ensures we won't win the SB. They can hold their GM and HC more accountable and spend big on replacing very average management after over a decade of failure.

If they don't do that, it means they are content with mediocrity and occasionally making the playoffs, because that is all they need to do to continue to maintain interest in the team.

[VikingLord]

I don't know. The only thing I do know is that this team, as currently constructed, is not working.

The most frustrating part for me is that are so close and can play really well for stretches. This is true of the offense too and I suppose even the special teams.

It's not like they outright suck. In some ways it would be easier if they did. Your post about the season that could have been this year was one of the most interesting I've read. I actually had to go back and read it a few times because had just a few things gone their way in each game, you're absolutely correct that they would be not just in the playoff picture, but vying for HFA throughout the playoffs.

And yet, here we sit ruing another lost season, facing an uncertain and likely long and frustrating offseason where the team will be batting around yet again what to do, if anything, with their GM, head coach, and key free agents. Do they make some tweaks and try to push over the top, or blow the whole thing up and start over?

I know where I stand on that question at this point, but I can easily see the Wilfs having a different opinion.

I just want to feel some optimism.

Who knows? Maybe that Malik Willis kid from Liberty will drop to them in the draft this year. The Vikings will likely be picking in the mid-teens yet again, and Willis is the sort of prospect that somebody might decide to spring for in the top 10, but he also might fall a bit as he's not a surefire prospect at QB. He's electric. He can escape pressure and get the ball where it needs to go on the field. Great arm talent. He's not that big but then again, when you watch his film you don't see that affecting him much. He's sort of the opposite of what I saw with Mond who is more of a pocket QB. Could add some excitement and legit competition to replace Cousins.

Personally, I'd focus on the lines (specifically, center or guard on the OL and any DL position if I felt a special player were there like Jordan Davis of Georgia), but getting more dynamic at QB could also make a difference.

[StumpHunter]

I don't know. The only thing I do know is that this team, as currently constructed, is not working.

The most frustrating part for me is that are so close and can play really well for stretches. This is true of the offense too and I suppose even the special teams.

The biggest issue and the thing that will keep us out of the playoffs is that when the D was playing well, the offense was not and when the offense was playing well, the defense was not. We were never consistently good or bad across the team as a whole and when half your team is bad and half good you will only win half your games.

[halfgiz]

So are Pierce, Tomlinson, and Kendricks overrated or is it the fault of other players not doing their job? Anyone really looked into the film?

I think Kendrick’s needs to move to the outside. And put a big thumper in the middle.
I don’t think Kendrick’s was originally going to play the middle. But injures I think forced him to move there. Correct me if I am wrong.
Edit: Was it EJ Henderson that got hurt?