Steelers @ Vikings post game

[makila]

Imo, haven't looked a single grade, Udoh is better suited at tackle then guard. Not a huge statement. It's what he played and is a big body. He needs room to move. Interior isn't for him. Clearly the coaching staff thinks they can make tackles become guards successfully though, that's my concern. Cleveland never even got a chance at the position he played all college.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Udoh wouldnt have been in the equation at all. Hill would've been at LT.

Are you seriously upset about Hill, the worst graded tackle in the entire NFL through his first 5 weeks starting, not getting the start over Udoh?

Or are you just complaining to complain? Bradbury and Cole are working out on the interior, better than Cole and Davis or Bradbury and Davis would, and Udoh will go to the bench when Darrisaw is healthy. Great decision by the HC and there really isn't a reasonable argument against it.

I mean I dont know how you would know if Bradbury/Davis or Cole/Davis would be worse? You sound like Mike Zimmer. Not trusting his draft picks (even your best draft pick in the last 20+ years) and having a pathetic sense of roster management. The fact it took until week 13 for Zimmer to "figure out" Cole is a better option than Udoh at guard proves that point. But again, it was an injury/COVID that had to happen for Zimmer to make any sort of switch. So I guess he didnt "figure out" shi#. Sounds pretty familiar right? Just like Hill/O'Neill in 2018 and Samia/Cleveland in 2020. It just further proves that Davis will continue to rot on the bench because Zim didnt give him a single shot throughout the season. Instead he watched Oli Udoh commit the 2nd most penalties in the NFL and thought he was fine. And if Bradbury never landed on COVID, Udoh would still be starting, guaranteed. Wasnt enough injuries to the OL to get Davis in I guess. Because that's the ONLY reason O'Neill and Cleveland ever got a starting job. Perfect example of a coach that pays little attention to his offense. To the point where he cant even recognize not just BAD offensive lineman but HORRIBLE offensive lineman. It's not like Spielman is holding a gun to Zim's head saying "start Oli Udoh". These are Zimmer's decisions and he has failed at them time and time again. Spileman provides the talent and it's Zimmer's job to play his best players and he struggles to do that, especially on the offensive side of the ball. It's embarrassing.

So you keep giving Zim "credit" for Bradbury landing on COVID and making a switch by default that ended up being better. Way to go Zim, you offensive savant you!

[StumpHunter]

Are you seriously upset about Hill, the worst graded tackle in the entire NFL through his first 5 weeks starting, not getting the start over Udoh?

Or are you just complaining to complain? Bradbury and Cole are working out on the interior, better than Cole and Davis or Bradbury and Davis would, and Udoh will go to the bench when Darrisaw is healthy. Great decision by the HC and there really isn't a reasonable argument against it.

I mean I dont know how you would know if Bradbury/Davis or Cole/Davis would be worse? You sound like Mike Zimmer. Not trusting his draft picks (even your best draft pick in the last 20+ years) and having a pathetic sense of roster management. The fact it took until week 13 for Zimmer to "figure out" Cole is a better option than Udoh at guard proves that point. But again, it was an injury/COVID that had to happen for Zimmer to make any sort of switch. So I guess he didnt "figure out" shi#. Sounds pretty familiar right? Just like Hill/O'Neill in 2018 and Samia/Cleveland in 2020. It just further proves that Davis will continue to rot on the bench because Zim didnt give him a single shot throughout the season. Instead he watched Oli Udoh commit the 2nd most penalties in the NFL and thought he was fine. And if Bradbury never landed on COVID, Udoh would still be starting, guaranteed. Wasnt enough injuries to the OL to get Davis in I guess. Because that's the ONLY reason O'Neill and Cleveland ever got a starting job. Perfect example of a coach that pays little attention to his offense. To the point where he cant even recognize not just BAD offensive lineman but HORRIBLE offensive lineman.

So you keep giving Zim "credit" for Bradbury landing on COVID and making a switch by default that ended up being better. Way to go Zim, you offensive savant you!

Bradbury being on Covid had nothing to do with Cole moving to guard. What are you even talking about?

[Pondering Her Percy]

I mean I dont know how you would know if Bradbury/Davis or Cole/Davis would be worse? You sound like Mike Zimmer. Not trusting his draft picks (even your best draft pick in the last 20+ years) and having a pathetic sense of roster management. The fact it took until week 13 for Zimmer to "figure out" Cole is a better option than Udoh at guard proves that point. But again, it was an injury/COVID that had to happen for Zimmer to make any sort of switch. So I guess he didnt "figure out" shi#. Sounds pretty familiar right? Just like Hill/O'Neill in 2018 and Samia/Cleveland in 2020. It just further proves that Davis will continue to rot on the bench because Zim didnt give him a single shot throughout the season. Instead he watched Oli Udoh commit the 2nd most penalties in the NFL and thought he was fine. And if Bradbury never landed on COVID, Udoh would still be starting, guaranteed. Wasnt enough injuries to the OL to get Davis in I guess. Because that's the ONLY reason O'Neill and Cleveland ever got a starting job. Perfect example of a coach that pays little attention to his offense. To the point where he cant even recognize not just BAD offensive lineman but HORRIBLE offensive lineman.

So you keep giving Zim "credit" for Bradbury landing on COVID and making a switch by default that ended up being better. Way to go Zim, you offensive savant you!

Bradbury being on Covid had nothing to do with Cole moving to guard. What are you even talking about?

Oh sorry I stand corrected! It was Christian Darrisaw that got hurt for Mason Cole to move to guard. It was Bradbury landing on COVID for Zim to even realize Mason Cole was a viable starting offensive lineman. So it took two offensive lineman to get hurt for this offensive savant to make this switch that you are praising him for. So thank you, you just further proved my point! Doesnt surprise me that when you have no answer you deflect to nitpicking how something was worded. You know exactly what I'm talking about. I've pointed this out 100 times on this board. You just refuse to believe it when the proof is in the pudding.

It took him until WEEK 13 for him to figure that all out. Does this guy pay attention to a single thing the offense does in practice? Or better yet what his second team does in practice? Clearly not. He had Brian O'Neill, Ezra Cleveland and Mason Cole all rotting on the bench until injuries happened. They all became solid to very good future starters. And if those initial starters didnt get hurt, who knows where these 3 would be. I look at Wyatt Davis the same way. Big 10 OL of the year, higher draft pick (for a guard) and had a strong preseason. Who knows, the guy could be a bust. But looking at Zimmers track record in these situations, it's not good. And I strongly think that Davis deserves playing time and he wont get any this year unless our entire interior breaks their legs. Next year probably the same unless Zim is gone and someone can actually spot offensive talent. There is zero reason two former 6th round picks (Udoh and Brandel) should be getting time over Wyatt Davis. For depth, sure. To start, no. And if they do start and suck hard like Udoh, the leash should be extremely short. Like I said, this is a perfect example of a coach that pays zero attention to his offense and too much attention to his defense (which at this point he cant even figure out either). He is the eye of this storm and nothing will change until he is gone.

[StumpHunter]

Oh sorry I stand corrected! It was Christian Darrisaw that got hurt for Mason Cole to move to guard.

A move you absolutely hated at the time it happened. Zimmer gave a young player with upside a chance to improve as the season went on over starting the more experienced vet with a limited upside. Something you rip Zimmer for not doing enough of pretty consistently on here. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and just more proof it would not matter what Zimmer did, you would still blame him for every bad thing that happens to this team.

[Pondering Her Percy]

A move you absolutely hated at the time it happened.

Dude when did I say that? Seriously, you need to stop making up your own narratives behind peoples arguments. It's been a real problem on here and you literally dont quit. You put your own twist on peoples comments and then practically question their intelligence like we're talking out of both sides of our mouth here.

I literally NEVER ONCE said I "hated" Cole being moved to guard. I hated the fact that #1, Zimmer shuffled around 3 positions on the OL for one guy being out. I'm not sure what organization that EVER happens with other than ours but that's one thing.

#2- What I hated most about that entire shuffle was the fact he put Udoh at LT because Udoh doesnt belong on the field. His penalties have continued to cost us game after game. I really blew up on the move after the Detroit game because Udoh is so damn inexperienced at LT that he was jumping Cousins' snap early because he was clearly worried he couldnt get out of his stance fast enough. Again, in the 2nd half when the game is winding down.

and #3- The position switch I was LEAST worried about was indeed moving Cole to guard which you claimed above that I "absolutely hated". Cole should've been starting at center or guard, we all knew that. He's better than both Bradbury and Udoh. My problem is, it takes Zimmer 13 F'in weeks to figure that out? I could care less to see Bradbury come in the game again. So I have no clue where you're coming up with me hating Cole moving to guard. If I was to take the team over mid year, there is zero doubt in my mind that my starting OL would be Darrisaw, Cleveland, Cole, Davis, O'Neill. I still think that would be the best combo so I STILL dont believe Zim has figured this out which is quite pathetic by this point in the season. And dont be surprised one bit if Udoh makes his way back into the right guard spot. We have a coach that's stuck in his own ways, trust me, that is very possible.

Zimmer gave a young player with upside a chance to improve as the season went on over starting the more experienced vet with a limited upside.

Who are you even referring to here?

Something you rip Zimmer for not doing enough of pretty consistently on here.

Yeah because he absolutely blows at it. Especially on the offensive side of the ball. It took injuries to get Oneill, Cleveland, Oneill and now Davis (if he's lucky) on the field.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and just more proof it would not matter what Zimmer did, you would still blame him for every bad thing that happens to this team.

#1, That's false
#2, Stump....does this sound familiar? Welcome to the party. Pot meet kettle. Kirk Cousins enter the room. You have literally been accused of this with Cousins for how many years? I always said, Cousins could go 35 for 36 for 400 yards and you'd be the one guy that finds fault with his one incompletion. You literally blame the guy for everything. When Cousins plays average to below average you're on here shredding him a new as# crack. No matter what anyone says, you'll weasel your way into making it about how it's Kirks fault. Just like the other day for example, I mentioned something about Udoh's poor play, not even directed at you and you still find a way to come in and make it about the QB. Because Kirk Cousins is the reason Udoh averages at least one holding penalty a game.

But the BEST part is, when Cousins plays well, beats a winning team, executes in the clutch, etc. (ya know, all the bullshi# narratives you say about him), you literally go into hiding. It's quite comical. I remember specifically the Chargers and Packers game, you were absent following both of those weeks. Literally absent. Yet we lose to Detroit and Kirk has a rough 2nd half vs. Pitt and here you are. Making post after post, responding within minutes, etc. You literally hate Kirk so much that you literally go hide when we play a good team, he plays well and wins. I legit thinks it bothers you when he does that because you are so hell bent on proving to everyone that he sucks that you cant even show your face when he succeeds.

So please, dont even go there with me. If you ask any Vikings fan right now, 95% of them would say out of anyone, Mike Zimmer is the root of this problem. Zim still shows his flashes of being a great schemer against guys like Rodgers, Herbert, Murray but literally goes mental against guys like Jared Goff (x2), Cooper Rush, 2nd half Big Ben, etc. Doesnt blitz, doesnt give them different looks, just sits back with confidence his defense will beat them as is.

Outside of scheming against good QBs defensively, yes Mike Zimmer SUCKS as a head coach.

His early conservativeness
His inability go step on a teams throat
His roster management
His defensive play calling against bad teams
His lack of involvement in the offense
His lack of trust in his draft picks, especially offensively
His 2 minute defense which he will either break or broke HIS old record for most points allowed in the final 2 minutes of a half
....I can keep going.

I can blame other guys for other things, but the ROOT of all of this right now and this underachievement 100% falls on the head coaches shoulders.

[StumpHunter]

Who are you even referring to here?

Udoh. One of the many young players Rick drafted who was a great find until they actually saw the field.

Yeah because he absolutely blows at it. Especially on the offensive side of the ball. It took injuries to get Oneill, Cleveland, Oneill and now Davis (if he's lucky) on the field.

O'Neill and O'Neill he did it with huh?

What about Darrisaw or Bradbury one guy who got in pretty much as soon as he was healthy and the other who started day 1? Seems like he is okay with starting rookies sometimes.

Cleveland got in after Samia because he wasn't very good in his rookie season and still isn't very good now. Plus, he was the backup LG and practiced there all of camp, not RG. Your complaint should be that he didn't start over Dozier, not Samia, and Dozier was bad in 2020 and was the 60th best (dead last) in pass blocking efficiency that season. Cleveland was 58th. What a disaster not starting that guy sooner huh? Imagine being upset about one of the worst guards in football not starting more games...

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and just more proof it would not matter what Zimmer did, you would still blame him for every bad thing that happens to this team.

#2, Stump....does this sound familiar? Welcome to the party. Pot meet kettle. Kirk Cousins enter the room. You have literally been accused of this with Cousins for how many years? I always said, Cousins could go 35 for 36 for 400 yards and you'd be the one guy that finds fault with his one incompletion.

I give Cousins lots of "credit" for the "success" of this team. Have you not been paying attention?

[Thaumaturgist]

I give Cousins lots of "credit" for the "success" of this team. Have you not been paying attention?

Sorry, I found that funny! Nice use of quotes

[Pondering Her Percy]

Udoh. One of the many young players Rick drafted who was a great find until they actually saw the field.

He was a 6th round pick. Those are flier players so I don’t know where anyone is saying that was a great find. Rick Spielman didn’t decide to start him at guard and then sadly tackle, Mike Zimmer did. If 6th round picks develop into depth swing guys that’s a win. Zimmer somehow thought he warranted a starting job when he had Cole and I can bet money Davis that are both better. Again, Mike Zimmers fault, not Rick Spielmans. A for effort though

O'Neill and O'Neill he did it with huh?

Did I not just mention this in the last post? The pot stirring trolling and correcting an obvious typo. I knew that was Cole, you knew that was Cole, but you still have to find a way to point it out and be a #### about it. The child continues his childish ways per usual and you sit here and act like you do no wrong.

What about Darrisaw or Bradbury one guy who got in pretty much as soon as he was healthy and the other who started day 1? Seems like he is okay with starting rookies sometimes.

Again, I NEVER said this was every time. But when he misses on O’Neill, Cleveland, Cole, Davis and even Jefferson who is literally breaking records and was splitting time with Bisi for two weeks, that’s pis# poor roster management.

Cleveland got in after Samia because he wasn't very good in his rookie season and still isn't very good now. Plus, he was the backup LG and practiced there all of camp, not RG. Your complaint should be that he didn't start over Dozier, not Samia, and Dozier was bad in 2020 and was the 60th best (dead last) in pass blocking efficiency that season. Cleveland was 58th. What a disaster not starting that guy sooner huh? Imagine being upset about one of the worst guards in football not starting more games...

Dude what?! Cleveland got in after Samia because he wasn’t very good in his rookie season? What kind of sense does that make. Samia was an absolute revolving door last year. To the point where he was literally ranked as the lowest graded offensive PLAYER in the league. Cleveland was miles better than that and when Cleveland came in, he gave an instant boost to that OL because he eliminated 1 of 2 of the revolving doors.

But way to twist that around to fit your cool story saying it was Dozier and then comparing him to Cleveland when Dozier had nothing to do with this. I don’t care where Cleveland practiced. The guard spots are pretty interchangeable. But he didn’t go in for Dozier because Dozier didn’t get hurt. Samia did with a wrist injury. That’s what it took for zimmer to realize this, otherwise Samia would’ve continued with one of the worst if not the worst grade PFF has ever spit out with a 33.1. Again Zim needed injury to figure this out for him.

But of course you continue to manipulate stats to fit your narrative and mentioned Doziers pass blocking and Cleveland’s pass blocking. Dozier had a 44.6 overall grade compared to Cleveland’s 66.2 overall. Like they weren’t even remotely close when you actually look at the entire body of work. Not "stumps cherry picked fit my narrative" stats. You literally just found one thing they were “similar” in and tried to compare them that way. Pretty bad look but hey, you’ve been doing it for years making yourself look like a fool in this regard.

I give Cousins lots of "credit" for the "success" of this team. Have you not been paying attention?

I won’t even bother addressing this garbage

[Purple Reign]

Every reason to NOT to come and play hard? How about still being in the playoff race? Besides, if they don't play hard then they aren't going to last very long in this league and lose their job. That should be the only reason they need to play hard.

What you say is obvious and true, but what I propose is that Dalvin's effort and willingness to play hurt (two WEEKS earlier than expected) is extraordinary and it may reflect well on his relationship with coach Zimmer. It may also just be that he felt good. Maybe he's sick of the reputation of being injury-prone? It's all just speculation on our part.

Ultimately, this team is a straight-up enigma. They can come out flat and unprepared and uninspired or they can come out on fire, like we saw Thursday night... and I can't make heads or tails of them. I guess that inconsistency has been a defining characteristic of the Zimmer era.

Still don't know where you get the idea that they had every reason to NOT play hard. What reason(s) would those be? I don't see any reason for not playing hard. Yes, they may come out flat and uninspired at times, but that doesn't translate to not having a reason to play hard.

[Texas Vike]

What you say is obvious and true, but what I propose is that Dalvin's effort and willingness to play hurt (two WEEKS earlier than expected) is extraordinary and it may reflect well on his relationship with coach Zimmer. It may also just be that he felt good. Maybe he's sick of the reputation of being injury-prone? It's all just speculation on our part.

Ultimately, this team is a straight-up enigma. They can come out flat and unprepared and uninspired or they can come out on fire, like we saw Thursday night... and I can't make heads or tails of them. I guess that inconsistency has been a defining characteristic of the Zimmer era.

Still don't know where you get the idea that they had every reason to NOT play hard. What reason(s) would those be? I don't see any reason for not playing hard. Yes, they may come out flat and uninspired at times, but that doesn't translate to not having a reason to play hard.

They lost to the winless Lions 4 days prior and the rumors of a major coach (and possibly GM) shake up went from a gentle swirling of leaves to an F5 Tornado. If you weren't surprised by how hard they played that first half, I'm not going to sweat it... just my impression.

[J. Kapp 11]

Well, the Steelers beat the Titans, who were vying for the No. 1 seed in the AFC.

And Detroit beat the Cardinals, who were No. 1 in the NFC.

It's a weird league this year. Anything is possible.

[Dmizzle0]

Well, the Steelers beat the Titans, who were vying for the No. 1 seed in the AFC.

And Detroit beat the Cardinals, who were No. 1 in the NFC.

It's a weird league this year. Anything is possible.

Thanks for posting this, I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread to bring this up.

[J. Kapp 11]

Well, the Steelers beat the Titans, who were vying for the No. 1 seed in the AFC.

And Detroit beat the Cardinals, who were No. 1 in the NFC.

It's a weird league this year. Anything is possible.

Thanks for posting this, I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread to bring this up.

I put it here because we just beat the Steelers. Seemed like a good place to go.

It's such a weird league. We had the Cardinals beat on the road until we missed the chip shot. We lose to winless Detroit. Then Detroit beats the heck out of the Cardinals. We beat the Steelers, who then beat the AFC's top seed.

This is why I'm not giving up on the season. That and I've taken a lot of metaphoric hits to the head in 50+ years as a Vikings fan.

[Dmizzle0]

Thanks for posting this, I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread to bring this up.

I put it here because we just beat the Steelers. Seemed like a good place to go.

It's such a weird league. We had the Cardinals beat on the road until we missed the chip shot. We lose to winless Detroit. Then Detroit beats the heck out of the Cardinals. We beat the Steelers, who then beat the AFC's top seed.

This is why I'm not giving up on the season. That and I've taken a lot of metaphoric hits to the head in 50+ years as a Vikings fan.

Nope I didn't give up either, I thought I did after we lost to the Lions but here I am with Vikings @ Bears MNF tickets and my JJ jersey on standby.