Cowboys @ Vikings post game

[RandyMoss84]

I hope Hunter’s injury isn’t bad, but if it is that Slick Rick doesn’t make a last minute trade. Trade deadline is tomorrow.

I feel bad for Hunter. He missed all last year and now it seems likely he's done for the rest of this year.

If there is a bright side for the Vikings, I believe his renegotiated deal makes it less painful from a salary cap perspective to move on if they decide to go that route, and if they don't his recent injury history should make it less likely he'll be able to command top dollar in free agency, making it more likely they could bring him back on a reasonable deal if they decide to go that route.

That is very disappointing for Hunter, just bad luck!

[S197]

Bigger question is , what top tier Head Coach would want to come to this Fire Sale ? No One in their right mind would work under Spielman, you have no OL, a QB that is one step above useless when it counts, etc.....There is no quick fix here. We are looking at a rebuild and that just means more years of futility.

I think it depends on the agreement. Cousins is here next year for sure (barring a trade) but thereafter, a coach could start to build his own team with a decent nucleus of players. You'd basically have to give the guy a mulligan in 2022, which isn't uncommon for a new HC.

I think the OL is improving, pass protection was pretty good for most of the game. Udoh had a rough game but it's better than 4 out of 5 guys struggling.

I don't know, seems like an alright gig. You have an owner willing to shell out cash, a new stadium, and a number of guys to build around. How much autonomy the new guy gets will be a big part of it assuming Rick sticks around.

[StumpHunter]

I would be worried about losing Hunter, but Collinsworth said Wonnum is a similar type of player as Hunter when he came in for him last night, so nothing to worry about.

They ARE similar types of players. Wonnum obviously not as good at this point but on limited opportunities. I have high hopes for him. Then again, Hunter is being paid $72M compared to Wonnum's $4M. Sometimes you take what you can get when the salary cap comes into play.

On another note, is no one concerned about Theilen's agents' tweets from last night?

https://apple.news/ARmQ3DW58QZGh12Of0JkWDw

"The agent, Blake Baratz, said on Twitter during the game that "I represent a lot of Vikings and I cannot watch this. It's painful." That makes their feelings on Minnesota's troubles clear.
Baratz also said "enough is enough" and promised to be "transparent" on Monday, which could foreshadow any number of things coming to light."

Yikes. That is never a good sign.

FYI on Wonnum versus Hunter:

In 200+ pass rush opportunities this year he has 8 pressures and 1 sack.

Hunter in 189 pass rush attempts through 8 weeks in his second season: 21 pressures, 4 sacks

PFF also felt Hunter was the better run defender, grading out at 84 against the run in the first 8 games of his second year. Wonnum is sitting at 50.

They are the same height and weight, play the same position but that is about where the similarities end, with Hunter coming in at a blazing 4.57 40 and Wonnum running for a very average 4.73. Other measurables like 3 cone drill, bench press, broad jump and vertical Hunter was significantly better. Wonnum is a good athlete, he wouldn't have been drafted if he wasn't, but Hunter is a freak of nature, which is why I found that comment by Collinsworth so laughable.

[Foreman44]

Does anyone believe this team can contend for aSB..

hi believe our next three games are Rams,Ravens, and packers.. most likehñly losses.

All Three games equal to or better than the cowpukes.

We love our vikings. But is Zimmer the coach to get us To the S.B.

I project us losing the next three.

Our time management at the end of second qtr and 4th qtr was as amateurish as I seen. This falls on Zimmer.

I am ready to get rid of/fire Zimmer. Now to get a jump working on his replacement. End of season at minimum.

Spielman should be added/fired as well.
What ever Zimmer is doing.Spielman too. Isn’t working

I

[Maelstrom88]

They ARE similar types of players. Wonnum obviously not as good at this point but on limited opportunities. I have high hopes for him. Then again, Hunter is being paid $72M compared to Wonnum's $4M. Sometimes you take what you can get when the salary cap comes into play.

On another note, is no one concerned about Theilen's agents' tweets from last night?

https://apple.news/ARmQ3DW58QZGh12Of0JkWDw

"The agent, Blake Baratz, said on Twitter during the game that "I represent a lot of Vikings and I cannot watch this. It's painful." That makes their feelings on Minnesota's troubles clear.
Baratz also said "enough is enough" and promised to be "transparent" on Monday, which could foreshadow any number of things coming to light."

Yikes. That is never a good sign.

FYI on Wonnum versus Hunter:

In 200+ pass rush opportunities this year he has 8 pressures and 1 sack.

Hunter in 189 pass rush attempts through 8 weeks in his second season: 21 pressures, 4 sacks

PFF also felt Hunter was the better run defender, grading out at 84 against the run in the first 8 games of his second year. Wonnum is sitting at 50.

They are the same height and weight, play the same position but that is about where the similarities end, with Hunter coming in at a blazing 4.57 40 and Wonnum running for a very average 4.73. Other measurables like 3 cone drill, bench press, broad jump and vertical Hunter was significantly better. Wonnum is a good athlete, he wouldn't have been drafted if he wasn't, but Hunter is a freak of nature, which is why I found that comment by Collinsworth so laughable.

I was blown away by that comment as well. Collinsworth didn't know what he was talking about.

[VikingLord]

They ARE similar types of players. Wonnum obviously not as good at this point but on limited opportunities. I have high hopes for him. Then again, Hunter is being paid $72M compared to Wonnum's $4M. Sometimes you take what you can get when the salary cap comes into play.

On another note, is no one concerned about Theilen's agents' tweets from last night?

https://apple.news/ARmQ3DW58QZGh12Of0JkWDw

"The agent, Blake Baratz, said on Twitter during the game that "I represent a lot of Vikings and I cannot watch this. It's painful." That makes their feelings on Minnesota's troubles clear.
Baratz also said "enough is enough" and promised to be "transparent" on Monday, which could foreshadow any number of things coming to light."

Yikes. That is never a good sign.

That's a terrible sign. It suggests not just one or two players who are upset, but quite a few, at least the ones represented by that agent.

And if there are quite a few the agent knows about, my guess is there are more he doesn't.

I do wonder what the actual beef is beyond "frustrated" though. I felt like the team was on the verge of coming apart after the debacle against the Browns, but they seemed to recover after the mini win streak against the Lions and Panthers. Now again the team resembles the post-Browns loss group, except the rumblings from the volcano are louder and I think we can see some ash clouds starting to erupt...

[halfgiz]

The riff goes a lot deeper I would like to think.
The receivers seemed pretty frustrated. That they are not getting the ball.
And who is that on?? That's anybody's guess.
Last year Theilen was pretty animated with cousins on the sideline a couple times
Diggs had less patience and got a trade.

Myself I would like to see a new coach come in mid season. And see what he can do.

[J. Kapp 11]

This unfortunately isn’t going to resolve anytime soon. Danielle Hunter goes down again, the offense disappears for weeks, Zimmer can’t remember he just called a timeout … there is so much wrong with this team. It breaks my heart as a fan of this team for 50+ years. We seem further than ever from a Lombardi Trophy.

Meanwhile teams like the Rams trade for Von Miller. At the risk of sounding like a 4th grader, it hardly seems fair.

I do feel that firing Zimmer now would send a message to players like Adam Thielen that ownership is serious about changing the culture. If they let Zimmer stay and he loses the locker room, then guys we want to stay are gonna want out. Make Patterson the interim. At least he has the respect of the locker room.

[makila]

It's amazing when you look at our coaching staff and think "who could take over as interm" to realize what kind of coaching staff Zimmer has assembled currently. : |

Patterson is the only one, and he's another defensive minded guy. Not a single young offensive mind I would want to elevate in HC tasks. In today's NFL.... wow.

[Foreman44]

It's amazing when you look at our coaching staff and think "who could take over as interm" to realize what kind of coaching staff Zimmer has assembled currently. : |

Patterson is the only one, and he's another defensive minded guy. Not a single young offensive mind I would want to elevate in HC tasks. In today's NFL.... wow.

Probably.right. Who would take his place?

Probably do no-worse

If we did better position upcoming draft.

[Mothman]

Top ten defence, pass whatever your drinking/smoking. Fire Zimmer, trying to defend this guy still is just getting old, he sucks period.

Perception versus reality. Perception is that this defense isn't good because of one drive at the end of a game where the offense consistently went 3 and out and kept the D on the field. Reality is that the D held up for the vast majority of that game despite being down two of its best players and played well enough where competent QB play easily wins that game.

Perception is that I am defending Zimmer. Reality is that I am pointing out that the real issue with this team is the offense, something the head coach is also responsible for and have stated he should be fired.

You’re making a stat-based argument that all but ignores objective reality. A defense that repeatedly breaks down, collapses in big moments, allows opponents to create substantial advantages in TOP, etc. is not a good defense. The “real issue” with this Vikings team is that it simply isn’t very good on either side of the ball. The coaching is mediocre, the personnel often misused, the vaunted defense a letdown.

[S197]

Patterson as an interim is okay so long as they don't go the Leslie Frazier route again and hand him the HC job after the season. That's my biggest worry.

[J. Kapp 11]

It's amazing when you look at our coaching staff and think "who could take over as interm" to realize what kind of coaching staff Zimmer has assembled currently. : |

Patterson is the only one, and he's another defensive minded guy. Not a single young offensive mind I would want to elevate in HC tasks. In today's NFL.... wow.

It is amazing to think about. The nepotism game is in full swing. You’ve got a (co-)defensive coordinator who’s the coach’s kid. You’ve got an offensive coordinator who’s the coach’s bud’s kid. Neither would likely have a job in the NFL as equipment managers if not for their dads. Ryan Ficken was like a traveling secretary or something. Andrew Janocko is Kub’s bud. Keenan McCardell has potential, but he’s too inexperienced as a coach. Phil Rauscher may be the worst O-line coach in the NFL. And waiting in the wings as the young assistant RB coach? A.C. Patterson. Yep. Son of Andre Patterson. More nepotism.

It’s a veritable who’s who of coaching nobodies.

Blow it up. Hire an offensive-minded head coach like Byron Leftwich or Joe Lombardi. Actually try to win a Super Bowl, rather than settle for “just barely good enough and still make money.”

[CharVike]

Bigger question is , what top tier Head Coach would want to come to this Fire Sale ? No One in their right mind would work under Spielman, you have no OL, a QB that is one step above useless when it counts, etc.....There is no quick fix here. We are looking at a rebuild and that just means more years of futility.

Don't kid yourself. If there is a guy out there that wants to be a HC he'll take whatever comes up. There's only 32 of these jobs. The biggest question is who is better? Zim's claim to fame is taking us to the NFC Champ game. That was with a bum QB. Same thing Childress, Burns and Green did for us. They all had better QBs than Zim. Farve is a HOFer. The great Nick Foles ripped his D apart. . Foles is a Super Bowl QB. Is he that much better than Cousins? I don't think so. Not too many GMs think that either. The Eagles won because they played some D. Only gave up 7 in the Champ Game. We gave up 30+. Some feel Cousins sucks but I don't. He's not at Rodgers level we all know that. But he isn't at the Case level either which some think. People act like HOF QBs are laying around all over the place to be signed. Goff made the SB. Jimmy G. Speilman had a chance to draft a high rated QB this year and didn't take it. He should be fired for that. Never skip those. We lost to the great Cardinals this year and everyone is saying what a great young HC they have and what a great QB they have. IMO they were lucky to beat Zim and Cousins in their own back yard. They couldn't beat Rodgers. Are they great? I don't see it. Watson is a QB who is considered top level. His team won 4 games last year. That's a loser in my book. Who is this top tier HC that is available. Jax signed one for this year and not much is happening. They are worse than us. Plus they have a great young QB. Steckle could do what he is doing. Who is the next great HC sitting out there that no team wants?

[StumpHunter]

Perception versus reality. Perception is that this defense isn't good because of one drive at the end of a game where the offense consistently went 3 and out and kept the D on the field. Reality is that the D held up for the vast majority of that game despite being down two of its best players and played well enough where competent QB play easily wins that game.

Perception is that I am defending Zimmer. Reality is that I am pointing out that the real issue with this team is the offense, something the head coach is also responsible for and have stated he should be fired.

You’re making a stat-based argument that all but ignores objective reality. A defense that repeatedly breaks down, collapses in big moments, allows opponents to create substantial advantages in TOP, etc. is not a good defense. The “real issue” with this Vikings team is that it simply isn’t very good on either side of the ball. The coaching is mediocre, the personnel often misused, the vaunted defense a letdown.

Stats are literally the "objective reality" and you are making a subjective argument. For instance your feelings tell you the defense is allowing opponents an advantage in TOP, but objectively the defense is 7th in shortest TOP per drive, and the offense has held the ball the 25th longest on each of their drives. D is doing their job to get the offense the ball back. Offense is not doing their job to keep the D off the field. That is a cold hard fact.

The defense isn't elite and going into the season you can find posts of mine where I point out the talent it isn't as good as the 2018 defense, let alone the 2017 one that got us to the NFCCG. It is however good enough to win easily with a competent offense and it is not even close to being the problem. Not being able to put up more than 16 points against a very average D was THE problem Sunday. Only being able to put up 2 TDs in the second half of 7 games is the problem on the season. Going 3 and out more than any team but Houston and Jacksonville is also a huge problem.

If nothing on D changed, and the offense was even average, we would probably be 6-1, maybe even 7-0 and we would be talking about the huge turnaround the D made after last year. These "collapses" at the end of games would instead be garbage time drives that have no impact on the final result. The offense is changing the perception of what up until this point has been a pretty good defense.