Wows and Pows at the bye

[Maelstrom88]

Mine are a couple of guys that aren’t talked about a lot.

My “wow” is going to be Ezra Cleveland. I really didn’t understand moving him to guard or drafting him in the 2nd if that move was the plan but putting that aside, he does seem to be improving. I forget who, I think maybe Kapp, but someone pointed out some stats that he improved greatly down the stretch in 2020. He has a ways to go but he’s not the weak link in this OL. It will be huge if they can build off a base of him, O’Neill, and Darrisaw.

My “pow” is Chris Herndon. Why in the world did we trade a 4th rounder for this guy? I haven’t checked but I’m pretty sure that 1 yard catch was his only of the season. It’s sad that Irv went down, the emergence of Osborne would make for a killer skill set on the field if Smith was healthy. Seriously though, someone needs to take away Rick’s panic trade abilities right before the season. Herndon, Ngakoue, Vedvik… it’s just bad.

Yeah, I pointed that out about Cleveland. I don’t remember where it came from … an article that used PFF as its barometer.

Highly recommend listening to the Purple Daily podcast from Tuesday, October 19. Alex Boone joins them every Tuesday, and he really gives good — and unfiltered — insight. He talks specifically about where the Vikings interior O-line needs to improve. A lot of people here will say that Boone was mediocre as a Viking, but he’s still a former NFL starter who’s smart and articulate. He also doesn’t hold back when analyzing the Vikings’ O-line coaches. A good listen.

Irv Smith going down was a blow for sure. On the plus side, Kubiak has been forced to use a lot of 11 personnel, and that has allowed for the growth of KJ Osborn. But yeah, really bad trades.

I'll have to check it out. I love oline talk lol

[TSonn]

POWs

— Defense at the end of halfs and/or games. It’s been an issue in every game except the Seattle game.

The defense has given up 7th fewest points of any team in the second half of games despite every game either being close at the end or being a blowout against the best second half scoring QB in the NFL.

The 6 teams ahead of them in that stat, Houston, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, NYJ, and Pit either have good defenses or have been so far behind in the second half teams are just running out the clock and not trying to score.

As for how they have played at the end of games:
Week 1: D held Cincinatti scoreless 4 straight drives to keep the Vikings in at the end of a close game

Week 2: D held AZ on their final drive to give the Vikings a chance to win it with a FG

Week 3: Blew out Seattle, no need for a late game stand

Week 4: Held Cleveland 2 straight at the end of the game even after a bad int to keep it a one score game

Week 5: Stopped Detroit on their final drive to get the ball back to the offense with time to move down the field to score a FG.

Week 6 was the single game where the D struggled to stop the team on their final drive. It took 2 4th down conversions and their best CB going out to do it, and this is after turning over the Panthers 2 times and only giving up 3 points the rest of the 2nd half.

DET scored a TD and a 2pt conversion on their final drive.

3 Yard Run
(1:56) D.Swift right end to MIN 17 for 3 yards (D.Hunter).
1st & 10 at MIN 20
10 Yard Pass
(1:21) (Shotgun) J.Goff pass short middle to A.St. Brown to MIN 7 for 10 yards (M.Alexander).
2nd & 7 at MIN 17
Touchdown Lions
(:41) D.Swift right tackle for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1st & Goal at MIN 7
2PT Conversion Success
TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. J.Goff pass to K.Hodge is complete. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.
XP attempt from MIN 2

Even on the 2nd to last drive DET scored a FG (aka not a stop) if you're gonna say the actual final drive doesn't count because DET got the ball on the 20 from a turnover.

Does someone secretly show you games from 2017 and convince you that they are live? That would explain A LOT of the disconnect here.

[CharVike]

Mine are a couple of guys that aren’t talked about a lot.

My “wow” is going to be Ezra Cleveland. I really didn’t understand moving him to guard or drafting him in the 2nd if that move was the plan but putting that aside, he does seem to be improving. I forget who, I think maybe Kapp, but someone pointed out some stats that he improved greatly down the stretch in 2020. He has a ways to go but he’s not the weak link in this OL. It will be huge if they can build off a base of him, O’Neill, and Darrisaw.

My “pow” is Chris Herndon. Why in the world did we trade a 4th rounder for this guy? I haven’t checked but I’m pretty sure that 1 yard catch was his only of the season. It’s sad that Irv went down, the emergence of Osborne would make for a killer skill set on the field if Smith was healthy. Seriously though, someone needs to take away Rick’s panic trade abilities right before the season. Herndon, Ngakoue, Vedvik… it’s just bad.

You did pull a few out. Ezra is just a kid playing a new position. It's great news that he is improving. I forgot Herndon was on the team. That tells the story. Maybe because Conklin has done fine.

[StumpHunter]

DET scored a TD and a 2pt conversion on their final drive.

3 Yard Run
(1:56) D.Swift right end to MIN 17 for 3 yards (D.Hunter).
1st & 10 at MIN 20
10 Yard Pass
(1:21) (Shotgun) J.Goff pass short middle to A.St. Brown to MIN 7 for 10 yards (M.Alexander).
2nd & 7 at MIN 17
Touchdown Lions
(:41) D.Swift right tackle for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1st & Goal at MIN 7
2PT Conversion Success
TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. J.Goff pass to K.Hodge is complete. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.
XP attempt from MIN 2

Even on the 2nd to last drive DET scored a FG (aka not a stop) if you're gonna say the actual final drive doesn't count because DET got the ball on the 20 from a turnover.

Copied and pasted from another site and didn't check that one because the others were correct.

Do 3 drives , 2 starting with good field position, 1 in the red zone, make the whole season?

Or does being 9th in points allowed at the end of both halves show that those drives are not necessarily indicative of what the defense has been doing?

[CharVike]

Am I the only one thinking about cheerleader uniforms being on the table?

Anyways. I'll mostly skip what's already been mentioned.

I am going to predict that after the DAL game we are all going to add either one huge WOW or one huge POW. But for now:

WOW
1. I've seen some of this act before but for now it appears our OL is trending in a good direction. If indeed they continue to improve and don't backslide, we will be in way better shape than years past considering the youngish average age. And not that Irv is a devastating blocker but it will do nothing but help when he comes back. Of course if that all holds true we'll have to pay big eventually, but hopefully they'll prove their worth.

2. CJ Ham continues to deliver. A stray dog gets more love, but he always seems to perform at the top of his game.


POW
1. We still have little to no idea what our backup (future?) QB situation may be. That's a credit to Kirk's ability to stay on the field of course, but I'd kinda like to know what we have in Mond. What I don't want is this team to struggle to get wins while every week saying "Kirk gives us the best chance to win", never start Mond and finish 7-10 or worse and have little idea if we need to shoot another QB shot in the '22 draft (not that there will be a lot of QB choices then). Of course maybe Kirk will be extended by then, making the whole thing moot until 2024.

2. 10 years in and #22 can still hit. I wish some of that would rub off on our CB's.

3. This is a mid-pack team in just about every important regard. Most obviously, we are 3-3. Our opponents are 19-18 I believe. Our offense is ranked fairly high in yards gained, but is mid-pack in points scored. Our D seems to be ranked mid-pack in most categories. Our QB is above mid-pack according to most stats, but when you heavily factor in scoring TD's (of course partly/mostly due to coaching decisions) we're back to mid-pack.



Our coaching is mid-pack at best (you are what your record says you are), particularly our position coaching IMO, and that's being generous. 



Ownership is mid-pack, or at the very least seems to prioritize things other than winning a SB.

Agree with everything you said. I'd like to see Mond get some reps as well but I doubt that happens. Kirk will be here next year at least with his cap hit then they likely will move on. He has been very good this year though. If we implode and fire Zimmer I think Mond might see action or if we are way up in a game. Of course Zimmer would probably just run the clock out.

You won't see Mond get any reps. He had his chance in the pre season and they needed to sign a backup based on what they saw. He's not active on game day. Relax and give it a few years.

[VikingLord]

For now, one WOW and one POW:

WOW - Kirk Cousins making key plays. I think the only game where I can't say he stood out at least once was probably the game against the Browns. Otherwise, he's made a key play or plays in every game so far. He seems to be leading when he's on the field, and his teammates seem to be responding to that.

POW - Inconsistency. The entire team has moments or stretches where things just seem to fall apart. This is happening on defense, special teams and offense. Sometimes the units fall apart in sync, but most of the time its happening where two of the units are getting it done while the third falls apart. This has outright cost them several games now. It could just be some bad luck, or it might be something we continue to see. On the bright side, if these are just early season aberrations and they get these kinks worked out, we're looking at a really good football team. If not and these things continue to rear their ugly heads throughout the season, we're likely looking at the pattern of close games to continue and something around a .500 record when all is said and done.

[S197]

Mine are a couple of guys that aren’t talked about a lot.

My “wow” is going to be Ezra Cleveland. I really didn’t understand moving him to guard or drafting him in the 2nd if that move was the plan but putting that aside, he does seem to be improving. I forget who, I think maybe Kapp, but someone pointed out some stats that he improved greatly down the stretch in 2020. He has a ways to go but he’s not the weak link in this OL. It will be huge if they can build off a base of him, O’Neill, and Darrisaw.

My “pow” is Chris Herndon. Why in the world did we trade a 4th rounder for this guy? I haven’t checked but I’m pretty sure that 1 yard catch was his only of the season. It’s sad that Irv went down, the emergence of Osborne would make for a killer skill set on the field if Smith was healthy. Seriously though, someone needs to take away Rick’s panic trade abilities right before the season. Herndon, Ngakoue, Vedvik… it’s just bad.

Yeah, I pointed that out about Cleveland. I don’t remember where it came from … an article that used PFF as its barometer.

Highly recommend listening to the Purple Daily podcast from Tuesday, October 19. Alex Boone joins them every Tuesday, and he really gives good — and unfiltered — insight. He talks specifically about where the Vikings interior O-line needs to improve. A lot of people here will say that Boone was mediocre as a Viking, but he’s still a former NFL starter who’s smart and articulate. He also doesn’t hold back when analyzing the Vikings’ O-line coaches. A good listen.

Irv Smith going down was a blow for sure. On the plus side, Kubiak has been forced to use a lot of 11 personnel, and that has allowed for the growth of KJ Osborn. But yeah, really bad trades.

Thanks, I'll try and check it out although I'm not a huge podcast guy. I still have a ton of audiobooks in my backlog. What's the cliff notes on his thoughts about Cleveland so far?

[YikesVikes]

You’re leaving out the end of halves, which was included in my original take. But that’s what you do, isn’t it?

Now I’m done talking with you about this … or anything. You’ve proven with your own words that you’re trolling (the crack about getting in my head, which is the very definition of trolling). I try to start a fun bye week thread, and your first inclination is to troll me. So I’m done with you. I’ve officially put you on ignore … not the foe list, but personal ignore. I will not reply to anything you say, ever, nor will I participate in any thread you start. I simply don’t have time for trolls.

I am not trolling, just pointing out that your POW was really a WOW.

9th fewest points given up in the final 5 minutes of either half, 2 total TDs (3rd fewest), 3 FGs. That is a good thing, not bad.

I write something positive and I am trolling. I write something negative and I am trolling. Just can't win with some people.

You are complete wrong about this. You stretched the stat to 5 mins but you should really look at the last 3 mins of Halfs.
We've gave up
14 points in Cinn
17 in Arizona
0 vs Seattle
10 vs the Browns
13 vs the lions
8 vs the Panthers ( 6 more points added from the 4 mins onward)

6 mins of a 48 min game is responsible for more than half the points we gave up in almost every game. This is with the clock against the opponent most times. I don't have the stats but I would wager we are dead last in points given up in the final 3 mins. How do you give up 17 points in 3 mins (should be mathematically impossible).

[YikesVikes]

In my job (before I retired ) we used to do a weekly thing we called “Wows and Pows.” Basically, we’d talk about what went well, and what could use improvement. I thought maybe we could take the week without a game to hand out Wows and Pows for the Vikings during their first six games.

Allow me to set a few parameters. Obviously I have no rule-enforcing authority, so I simply ask as a friendly request.

1. Post BOTH Wows and Pows. Don’t just be a negative nelly, and don’t be a kool-aid guzzler.
2. Nothing concerning the Vikings is off limits. Quality of play, coaching, play calling, selection of beer at US Bank Stadium, cheerleader outfits … it’s all on the table.
3. Opinions are fine, even if you don’t back them with facts. For definition purposes, an opinion can’t be proven conclusively (for example, “Kirk Cousins is a terrible quarterback” can’t be proven). Facts can be proven (e.g. Dalvin Cook has fewer rushing TDs than last year at this time) and are useful for supporting opinions.
4. If you cite facts, please tell us where you got them.

OK. I’ll start. Mine will be in the form of surprises.

WOWs

— The emergence of KJ Osborn. Honestly, who saw this coming? What he’s done, after taking ZERO offensive snaps in 2020, is truly impressive. One of the more unheralded benefits of having him on the field in 3-receiver sets is that the Vikings are more likely to stretch the field. With Osborn on the field, the Vikings throw the ball deep twice as often — a rate of 8.2 percent instead of 3.4 percent — per TruMedia. Also, Kirk Cousins’ depth of target is 1.5 yards farther downfield on average with Osborn on the field, despite similar time to throw, and his yards per attempt also increases dramatically from 6.38 to 7.75. He even helps the running game. According to TruMedia, the Vikings’ expected points per rush on standard rushing downs is much higher with Osborn on the field than off it, and the Vikings rush with higher yards per carry. On top of that, Dalvin Cook’s yards after contact increases, likely because he has a higher probability of taking on defensive backs in nickel defense than he does against base defenses when the Vikings run in heavy personnel. Also, Osborn is stocky (5-11, 203) and strong, and he does a great job, according to Vikings coaches, of cracking back against defensive ends on running plays. I’ll be watching for that when the Vikings play Dallas.

Essentially, KJ Osborn’s ability to be a reliable (even spectacular at times) WR3 makes the Vikings’ offense better.

— The addition of Christian Darrisaw. The rookie has taken 116 snaps and allowed ONE pressure. That’s impressive. But more than that, his addition has made the interior better. Alex Boone explained it really well on The Purple Daily podcast this past Tuesday. Normally against a 4-man front, the center helps out one or both of the guards against 3-techs and nose tackles. But when you have a liability at tackle, the guard on that side has to slide over to help the tackle. That leaves the center on an island — not a good thing when you have a small, athletic center like Garrett Bradbury. We’ve all seen him get pounded by DTs in pass pro. But when you have two tackles who can handle their business, the guards can stay home and the center can be the helper.

Adding Darrisaw has freed up our guards to handle the tackles, rather than sliding to help the overmatched Rashod Hill. That makes Bradbury more effective. We saw it against a really good front in Carolina.

— Kirk Cousins has suddenly become clutch. In his first three seasons, Cousins ranked 45th out of 49 quarterbacks in passer rating during the last 4 minutes of a game with his team tied or trailing by no more than two scores. He had more interceptions than TDs. Suddenly this year, out of nowhere, he ranks first (source PFF, per The Athletic). I don’t know why this turnaround has happened, and I don’t know if it will continue. But I sure like it for now.

— Opponents are converting just 29.5% of third downs against our defense, our best mark since 2017, and easily the best in the league. I have to believe some of that has to do with …

— Our pass rush has returned. After recording just 23 sacks in 2020, the Vikings are tied with Chicago for the NFL lead with 21 this year. At this rate, we’ll finish the season with 59! Welcome back Danielle and Everson.

— Bashaud Breeland. Special mention here. The guy was ranked dead last by PFF among all NFL corners after three weeks. In the past three weeks, he’s allowed just 5 completions and a 33% completion rate. Keep it up BB … and try not to mention your Johnson in your tweets.

POWs

— Defense at the end of halfs and/or games. It’s been an issue in every game except the Seattle game.

— Maddeningly inconsistent offense. We went four games without an offensive TD in the second half.

— Rush defense. Obviously it hasn’t been great, although we gave up only 70 yards against Carolina on running plays (the other 48 were on Darnold scrambles). The thing that gives me hope is that Michael Pierce and Anthony Barr (much better against the run than Nick Vigil) have yet to play together. That’ll change against Dallas.

— Next to nothing in the return game. With the exception of a nice return by Ameer Abdullah against Carolina, we’ve had nothing in the return game. Maybe that’ll change with the activation of Kene Nwangwu. And don’t even get me started on punt returns. Maybe we oughta give Marcus Sherels a call.

There’s a lot more I could highlight, but I’m interested in your thoughts. What are your WOWs and POWs for the first six weeks?

Don't know how anyone can see point given up at the end of Halfs and think that's not an issue. Almost every game we are giving up multiple scores. We have lost all 3 games because of it. It almost cost us the Panthers and lions game.

[Lash Man]

My Wow is the play of Cousins he has been a pleasant surprise this year .


My Pow is the coaching , with a better coach this team could be 4-2 or even 5-1 Some of these losses are the direct result of Zimmer's blunders IMHO.

[J. Kapp 11]

Yeah, I pointed that out about Cleveland. I don’t remember where it came from … an article that used PFF as its barometer.

Highly recommend listening to the Purple Daily podcast from Tuesday, October 19. Alex Boone joins them every Tuesday, and he really gives good — and unfiltered — insight. He talks specifically about where the Vikings interior O-line needs to improve. A lot of people here will say that Boone was mediocre as a Viking, but he’s still a former NFL starter who’s smart and articulate. He also doesn’t hold back when analyzing the Vikings’ O-line coaches. A good listen.

Irv Smith going down was a blow for sure. On the plus side, Kubiak has been forced to use a lot of 11 personnel, and that has allowed for the growth of KJ Osborn. But yeah, really bad trades.

Thanks, I'll try and check it out although I'm not a huge podcast guy. I still have a ton of audiobooks in my backlog. What's the cliff notes on his thoughts about Cleveland so far?

It’s been nearly a week, but IIRC, Boone’s take was that Cleveland has ability, but he and the entire interior are being coached poorly, especially when it comes to communication. I got the impression that he feels we could be a really good O-line with better coaching. Even Bradbury — better coaching and Xs & Os would maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. But in general, I’d say he sees Cleveland as the best of the three interior linemen (perhaps akin to being the best surfer in Nebraska, but hey).

[S197]

(perhaps akin to being the best surfer in Nebraska, but hey).

[CharVike]

WOW
Conklin - Has done a great job filling in.
Griffen - Good for him. He plays hard.
Osborn - Good job.
Darrisaw - Great job especially for missing camp. Looks like he is helping everyone.
Berry - Solid job
Zim - I put him in both spots. He's in the middle IMO. I never thought we had the talent to challenge for the title because that's a 14 win deal. 3-3 isn't good by any stretch but this season is still shaking out. The Cards are the only undefeated squad but there time is coming. We should have beat them in there house. That's a back breaking trip out west. We are still in the WC chase which was my expectation. We haven't even played that well yet and have dealt with injuries including the center piece for Zim's offense Cook who is a fantastic player. Getting Darrisaw back from injury is huge. I'm not even concerned with this so called tough schedule ahead. The Cowboys? They played one tough team and folded. The Ravens it seems like everything is breaking perfect for them. . They beat the Chargers bad but that's the west coast east coast travel and there kid QB didn't play well which happens. Jackson was 19/27/167/1/2 which is pitiful. TOs are death. I don't know how a team wins like that. Maybe giving up 7 points helped. Sorry for the rant.

POW
Johnson my bad Joseph - Worthless. Can't even get his name right. My mind wants to forget it. He must have pictures of Zim. He'll cut a kicker quickly but this guy appears to be a season long deal. He's like a blinded sharp shooter. Every target hit is luck.
Barr - Huge CAP hit zero return. Zim loves him for some reason.
Pierce - Huge CAP hit and nothing. Can't hold the point. Another Zim favorite
Dantzler - In 50 years I never hated one of ours. Hopefully he gets knocked out soon. Another Zim favorite who will be destroyed again next week. Then tweet how great he is. Everyone else sucks.
Tomlison - Worthless. Can't hold the point.
Woods - I wonder why the Boys threw him in the garbage.
Speilman - Mr trade down for nothing. He's in the Wilf's pocket. Not a bad place to be. QB falls to him and he says no thanks. He was picking only one position. Lawerence could have been there and he would have passed. Doesn't understand position value. Big trade was for a backup center who is light, has no base and is weak for a pro player. Still don't understand that football is a physical game. Size matters.
Zim - For some reason I have respect for Zim. Bottom line he ranks up there with our best Grant replacements. Took a team with a backup slug QB to the Champ game. That's not easy. Green only made it that far with several HOF players. He has one more year left. As many have said it will be boring but perhaps he can get us a WC spot. Division title was never a realistic goal as it will take 14 wins for that.

Researching the Dallas game Oli needs to be on the POW because he is a Dozier clone. Good start but is worthless at this point.