Vikings @ Bengals Post game

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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by VikingLord » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:35 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:14 pm
Those refs absolutely botched that call. Honestly, what is the point of the replay if you can’t accurately analyze what you are looking at
The rule is the call on the field has to stand unless there is clear evidence to overturn it.

As much as I agree with you that both the Jefferson call was wrong and the Cook call was wrong on the field, there just wasn't enough camera evidence to overturn either call.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by VikingLord » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:43 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:33 pm
Again, I try hard not to complain about officiating, but that was a joke. And it cost us a game.
I think two things primarily cost the game:

1a) Vikings offensive line continues to struggle across the board from penalties to just getting flat-out beat both run blocking and pass protecting. The Bengals ate their lunch most of the game.

1b) Vikings defensive line continues to struggle with run defense and contain. Mixon had a field day against them with cutbacks. How many times was Hunter sucked inside to allow an easy cutback? How is this defense going to be better overall if they can't do better stopping the run on early downs than they did last year? It was a poor overall performance by a unit that is supposed to be a LOT better than last year.

The refs missed some calls, sure, but the refs didn't give up a 50 yard bomb late to end the 1st quarter, and the refs weren't the ones holding, false starting and lining up in illegal formations. The Vikings more than made up for any ref deficiencies with their own bumbling incompetence on both lines.

That's why I think this is the 2020 team all over again. Offensively they look almost the same. Defensively I expected a lot better and yet I saw the same types of things again from that unit too. Special teams were better, but that's about it.

There is a really good chance this team will be 0-2 by this time next Sunday. The Cardinals can play D and will move the ball.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:06 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:43 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:33 pm
Again, I try hard not to complain about officiating, but that was a joke. And it cost us a game.
I think two things primarily cost the game:

1a) Vikings offensive line continues to struggle across the board from penalties to just getting flat-out beat both run blocking and pass protecting. The Bengals ate their lunch most of the game.

1b) Vikings defensive line continues to struggle with run defense and contain. Mixon had a field day against them with cutbacks. How many times was Hunter sucked inside to allow an easy cutback? How is this defense going to be better overall if they can't do better stopping the run on early downs than they did last year? It was a poor overall performance by a unit that is supposed to be a LOT better than last year.

The refs missed some calls, sure, but the refs didn't give up a 50 yard bomb late to end the 1st quarter, and the refs weren't the ones holding, false starting and lining up in illegal formations. The Vikings more than made up for any ref deficiencies with their own bumbling incompetence on both lines.

That's why I think this is the 2020 team all over again. Offensively they look almost the same. Defensively I expected a lot better and yet I saw the same types of things again from that unit too. Special teams were better, but that's about it.

There is a really good chance this team will be 0-2 by this time next Sunday. The Cardinals can play D and will move the ball.
I’m not complaining about the refs missing calls. We had 12 penalties (or was it more?), and that’s not the refs’ fault. The O-line was terrible, especially in the first half. They false started, they held, they lined up incorrectly. It was bad. And yet … we were right there at the end.

I also stated that giving up the TD late in the first half was inexcusable, and that Hunter (especially) sucked against the run.

Where I have issue is with replay. Both announcers and Mike Perriera said he was down. Anyone with eyes could see that Cook was down, and you’ll never convince me he wasn’t. For all the Vikings bad play, they had this game won until that play. It was a gutless original no-call on the part of the officials, and an even more gutless move to not overturn it.

Many NFL games come down to the wire, where a single play can tip the scales. Plays like that should not be determined by the officials.
Last edited by J. Kapp 11 on Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:07 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:28 pm
Wild week 1. Patriots lose to the Dolphins, Saints crush the Packers, and Mike Hughes just made the game winning interception for KC.
Patriots losing to the Dolphins is not a surprise
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by CharVike » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:27 pm

Tough loss with breakdowns on both sides.Turnover in overtime was the final nail and Burrow played great. I don't remember a game that we ever had this many penalties called. It;s not something I keep track of. Created some 2nd and 3rd down plays/conversions that were much longer than you want. Many were declined also. One thing I did like and wasn't expecting was coming out throwing. OL penalties threw that off track. Hopefully Burrow's play was him just playing great and not piss poor secondary play. Probably a combo. Off to play against a QB that just threw 4 TDs. Second road game in a row usually spells trouble. Captain Kirk misses another possible OT victory. Looks like a trend.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:43 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:06 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:43 pm


I think two things primarily cost the game:

1a) Vikings offensive line continues to struggle across the board from penalties to just getting flat-out beat both run blocking and pass protecting. The Bengals ate their lunch most of the game.

1b) Vikings defensive line continues to struggle with run defense and contain. Mixon had a field day against them with cutbacks. How many times was Hunter sucked inside to allow an easy cutback? How is this defense going to be better overall if they can't do better stopping the run on early downs than they did last year? It was a poor overall performance by a unit that is supposed to be a LOT better than last year.

The refs missed some calls, sure, but the refs didn't give up a 50 yard bomb late to end the 1st quarter, and the refs weren't the ones holding, false starting and lining up in illegal formations. The Vikings more than made up for any ref deficiencies with their own bumbling incompetence on both lines.

That's why I think this is the 2020 team all over again. Offensively they look almost the same. Defensively I expected a lot better and yet I saw the same types of things again from that unit too. Special teams were better, but that's about it.

There is a really good chance this team will be 0-2 by this time next Sunday. The Cardinals can play D and will move the ball.
I’m not complaining about the refs missing calls. We had 12 penalties (or was it more?), and that’s not the refs’ fault. The O-line was terrible, especially in the first half. They false started, they held, they lined up incorrectly. It was bad. And yet … we were right there at the end.

I also stated that giving up the TD late in the first half was inexcusable, and that Hunter (especially) sucked against the run.

Where I have issue is with replay. Both announcers and Mike Perriera said he was down. Anyone with eyes could see that Cook was down, and you’ll never convince me he wasn’t. For all the Vikings bad play, they had this game won until that play. It was a gutless original no-call on the part of the officials, and an even more gutless move to not overturn it.

Many NFL games come down to the wire, where a single play can tip the scales. Plays like that should not be determined by the officials.
It was 17 penalties
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by 40for60 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:51 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:06 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:43 pm


I think two things primarily cost the game:

1a) Vikings offensive line continues to struggle across the board from penalties to just getting flat-out beat both run blocking and pass protecting. The Bengals ate their lunch most of the game.

1b) Vikings defensive line continues to struggle with run defense and contain. Mixon had a field day against them with cutbacks. How many times was Hunter sucked inside to allow an easy cutback? How is this defense going to be better overall if they can't do better stopping the run on early downs than they did last year? It was a poor overall performance by a unit that is supposed to be a LOT better than last year.

The refs missed some calls, sure, but the refs didn't give up a 50 yard bomb late to end the 1st quarter, and the refs weren't the ones holding, false starting and lining up in illegal formations. The Vikings more than made up for any ref deficiencies with their own bumbling incompetence on both lines.

That's why I think this is the 2020 team all over again. Offensively they look almost the same. Defensively I expected a lot better and yet I saw the same types of things again from that unit too. Special teams were better, but that's about it.

There is a really good chance this team will be 0-2 by this time next Sunday. The Cardinals can play D and will move the ball.
I’m not complaining about the refs missing calls. We had 12 penalties (or was it more?), and that’s not the refs’ fault. The O-line was terrible, especially in the first half. They false started, they held, they lined up incorrectly. It was bad. And yet … we were right there at the end.

I also stated that giving up the TD late in the first half was inexcusable, and that Hunter (especially) sucked against the run.

Where I have issue is with replay. Both announcers and Mike Perriera said he was down. Anyone with eyes could see that Cook was down, and you’ll never convince me he wasn’t. For all the Vikings bad play, they had this game won until that play. It was a gutless original no-call on the part of the officials, and an even more gutless move to not overturn it.

Many NFL games come down to the wire, where a single play can tip the scales. Plays like that should not be determined by the officials.
What bugs me now about how replay works is that it goes to New York. To me, that makes it more difficult for the field officials in that they *should* have a better feel for what happened on the field and can fix if they can see the replay and can tell they screwed up. Versus “there’s not indisputable evidence”.

Regardless, Bud Grant would frequently say “Don’t let the officials decide the game”. The Vikings lost that game.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by S197 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:21 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:35 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:14 pm
Those refs absolutely botched that call. Honestly, what is the point of the replay if you can’t accurately analyze what you are looking at
The rule is the call on the field has to stand unless there is clear evidence to overturn it.

As much as I agree with you that both the Jefferson call was wrong and the Cook call was wrong on the field, there just wasn't enough camera evidence to overturn either call.
I was really surprised on the Jefferson one. It was clear his knee didn’t touch and it appeared like a good 1/3rd of his body was in the end zone let alone the tip of the ball. One official signaled touchdown and they should have let that stand in order for the automatic review. The Vikings ended up scoring anyway but that seemed to be the more obvious overturn to me.

Cook was a little tougher. He was down when the ball was fully ripped out but the question is was the ball starting to come out prior and there were just too many bodies in the way to definitively tell. It’s a tough way to lose for sure but I hated the play call. The Vikings were predictably running on 1st down as it was obvious Zimmer was playing for a FG or tie in classic “play not to lose” fashion.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:29 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:35 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:14 pm
Those refs absolutely botched that call. Honestly, what is the point of the replay if you can’t accurately analyze what you are looking at
The rule is the call on the field has to stand unless there is clear evidence to overturn it.

As much as I agree with you that both the Jefferson call was wrong and the Cook call was wrong on the field, there just wasn't enough camera evidence to overturn either call.
Oh I know exactly what the rule is. But I’m sorry, idk how you can say there wasn’t enough camera evidence. His as# landed on the 1 inch line and that was the first thing to hit. Unless his upper body was leaning forward or straight up at a 90 degree angle, maybe there’s an argument but his body was nearly stretched out with his butt landing on the 1 inch line. He was in by a country mile and that was obvious. Literally nothing hit the ground and I can tell you it was exactly why they initially questioned it and said no TD. Because they figured some part of his body hit. I would’ve love to ask the referees in that moment “sir, just wondering, what part of Justin jeffersons body hit the ground that made him down at the one inch line”. They wouldn’t have an answer. They just simply hate being wrong. High school refs are like that, college refs are like that. Their egos get in the way. I’m a coach. I see it all the time. They don’t want to admit they were wrong. They use the “not enough evidence” rule as an easy scapegoat.

As for cook, literally every analyst, Perrera, non Vikings fans, etc were saying cook was down. He was literally sitting down

What kills me, these refs somehow “saw” Justin Jeffersons butt down and the ball not over the line but “didn’t see” cooks butt down and the ball coming out?

They let cincys sideline make that call in OT. And bottom line is, if this is the fricken rule, you don’t call a fumble when you have no clue what the hell even happened. You don’t drastically change the dynamic of a game because you hear a sideline screaming and shouting. You let the replay decide if the ball did indeed change hands. You don’t just hand it to the other team because of loud noises from their sidelines. You just fuc#ed over a team by doing that. It’s not right.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by S197 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:31 pm

According to Zimmer, the play that Burrow checked into on 4th and inches in OT was one they practiced defending all week. Looking back at the play, it does seem like they diagnosed it pretty well but Woods overplayed it. He struggled a lot today as did Breeland. A lot of these 1-year vet signings aren’t looking so positive right now. This year and last have shown that the cap does matter and hard choices need to be made when you’re cap constrained.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:43 pm

S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:31 pm
According to Zimmer, the play that Burrow checked into on 4th and inches in OT was one they practiced defending all week. Looking back at the play, it does seem like they diagnosed it pretty well but Woods overplayed it. He struggled a lot today as did Breeland. A lot of these 1-year vet signings aren’t looking so positive right now. This year and last have shown that the cap does matter and hard choices need to be made when you’re cap constrained.
It is just 1 game, I will be more concerned if Breeland and Woods continue to play like crap
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by VikingLord » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:48 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:29 pm
...idk how you can say there wasn’t enough camera evidence.
I can say that because neither call was overturned.

The camera angles just didn't show either play well enough.

For what its worth I agree with you on both plays.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:29 pm
you don’t call a fumble when you have no clue what the hell even happened. You don’t drastically change the dynamic of a game because you hear a sideline screaming and shouting. You let the replay decide if the ball did indeed change hands. You don’t just hand it to the other team because of loud noises from their sidelines. You just fuc#ed over a team by doing that. It’s not right.
I agree once again.

I still don't think this game was determined by the refs. I think it was mostly determined by sloppy play on both Vikings lines. They better get that cleaned up fast or the Cardinals will make them pay.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:49 pm

Speaking of next week’s opponent … Chandler Jones had FIVE sacks for the Cardinals today. Five.

Heaven help our O-line.
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by RandyMoss84 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:28 pm

The NFC North all lost so who is in first place? I can not remember the last time that happened, it must be a long time
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Re: Vikings @ Bengals Post game

Post by me4get » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:35 pm

1st place is margin of loss. Vikings are -3.
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