A real offensive line, or just another "offensive" line

[StumpHunter]

OK his OL sucks. He has 5 Samia's, who can't block anything playing around him. It's the release. If you put him on our team last year he wasn't taking that to the super bowl. Just to carry on Cousins had the most time to throw than any QB that ever played the game. Our OL is great. That's why they used a 1st and 3rd pick to fix it and even that wasn't enough. We still need bodies. Brady had a good OL regardless of you indicating they sucked based on some fact that somebody made up. Or that Brady has the quickest release ever. Makes Marino look like Billy Kilmer. It had zero to do with his release. I've seen that same release under pressure and it did nothing for him. Go back and watch our guy Tark in the Super Bowl. Too much pressure. Both the Steelers and Phins took him out because of tremendous pressure. Plus he had great movement. Didn't help because the pocket was pushed into the backfield. Pressure slows them all down.

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has the quickest release of any passer in the NFL this year. According to the latest Next Gen stats, Roethlisberger is releasing the football 2.29 seconds after the snap. That’s right, in addition to turning into this grizzly old vet.
These people think old man Roth has the quickest release. There is garbage posted all over. I know our OL sucks and I know Brady has a dam good one. Big Ben had a pathetic OL also which is why the picked guys and the one I wanted in round 3 Kendrick Green.

Wow, quite the jump there.

Could you try again without the blatant strawmen arguments and incoherent ramblings?

I never mentioned Cousins, didn't say Brady could have won it all playing for the Vikings last year, didn't say Oline wasn't important, and didn't say TB's Oline sucked. I just corrected your terrible take that Brady sat back and took all day to throw last year. That isn't what a good pocket passer does and if Brady needed all day to throw to be successful he wouldn't be as great as he is. Same with Brees and Manning back when they played. Some QBs avoid a rush with their legs, some do it with a quick release. Some do neither and will always make their Oline look worse than it actually is.

[CharVike]

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has the quickest release of any passer in the NFL this year. According to the latest Next Gen stats, Roethlisberger is releasing the football 2.29 seconds after the snap. That’s right, in addition to turning into this grizzly old vet.
These people think old man Roth has the quickest release. There is garbage posted all over. I know our OL sucks and I know Brady has a dam good one. Big Ben had a pathetic OL also which is why the picked guys and the one I wanted in round 3 Kendrick Green.

Wow, quite the jump there.

Could you try again without the blatant strawmen arguments and incoherent ramblings?

I never mentioned Cousins, didn't say Brady could have won it all playing for the Vikings last year, didn't say Oline wasn't important, and didn't say TB's Oline sucked. I just corrected your terrible take that Brady sat back and took all day to throw last year. That isn't what a good pocket passer does and if Brady needed all day to throw to be successful he wouldn't be as great as he is. Same with Brees and Manning back when they played. Some QBs avoid a rush with their legs, some do it with a quick release. Some do neither and will always make their Oline look worse than it actually is.

You didn't correct a terrible take. My take has always been the same. Every QB I have ever seen does not play the same when they are under pressure. Brady's OL played very well based on everything I have read. I have not seen one article stating that his OL sucks. I've seen it with my eyes. They are good. Our OL is one of the worst in the NFL and we didn't improve it. You will say Cousins makes it look bad because of his ability which is what you are trying to point out. I'll tell you what I see. I see a center that gets pushed on his back and can't hold the point. He's terrible and shouldn't be starting. That has nothing to do with whoever the QB is. If Browning get's in there our center will still suck. Even the best young QB in the game played like a bum with no OL but that team fixed the problem. Even Mahomes couldn't fix a bad OL with his great ability. That's what your missing.

[StumpHunter]

You didn't correct a terrible take. My take has always been the same. Every QB I have ever seen does not play the same when they are under pressure. Brady's OL played very well based on everything I have read. I have not seen one article stating that his OL sucks.

Your terrible take is that Brady "just sits back and throws" as if he has all day to throw the football, something the stats say is absolutely false. He gets rid of the ball quickly because that is what great pocket passers do, regardless of how good their oline is.

Every QB I have ever seen does not play the same when they are under pressure.

Pressure typically means a QB is throwing the football before they have had time to find an open receiver, so what you say is true. However, a QB who finds open receivers quicker, will face less pressure. It isn't rocket science.

Brady's OL played very well based on everything I have read. I have not seen one article stating that his OL sucks.

You also haven't seen me write that his OL sucks. That was just something you made up in your head.

Oline matters, but is blamed far too often for losses that were more on the QB or receivers for not finding guys open/getting open quickly enough.

The Vikings keep defenses honest with a strong run game, and a stout defense and the Oline will be good enough for what many on here think is acceptable: making the playoffs. It will be the goat for our eventual loss in those playoffs as Cousins will inevitably struggle to find open guys against our final opponent and will take sacks after holding the ball forever, but up until then it will be fine.

[VikingTom]

Zimmer is describing Darrisaw’s injury as “one step forward, two steps back.” Perhaps this is why he fell so far in the 1st.

It’s going to be interesting long term to see how passing on Vera-Tucker or not moving up for Slater pans out. The immediate returns on Darrisaw, Davis and Mond aren’t as they were hoping I’m sure but it’ll be at least a year or two before we see which decision was best.

Took a few extra steps back as he apparently had another groin surgery. Was framed as minor, and not likely to prevent him from being ready by the first game. I had been thinking he was going to end up back under the knife given his progress from the 1st surgery. Hopefully this takes care of the issue.

[CharVike]

You didn't correct a terrible take. My take has always been the same. Every QB I have ever seen does not play the same when they are under pressure. Brady's OL played very well based on everything I have read. I have not seen one article stating that his OL sucks.

Your terrible take is that Brady "just sits back and throws" as if he has all day to throw the football, something the stats say is absolutely false. He gets rid of the ball quickly because that is what great pocket passers do, regardless of how good their oline is.

Every QB I have ever seen does not play the same when they are under pressure.

Pressure typically means a QB is throwing the football before they have had time to find an open receiver, so what you say is true. However, a QB who finds open receivers quicker, will face less pressure. It isn't rocket science.

Brady's OL played very well based on everything I have read. I have not seen one article stating that his OL sucks.

You also haven't seen me write that his OL sucks. That was just something you made up in your head.

Oline matters, but is blamed far too often for losses that were more on the QB or receivers for not finding guys open/getting open quickly enough.

The Vikings keep defenses honest with a strong run game, and a stout defense and the Oline will be good enough for what many on here think is acceptable: making the playoffs. It will be the goat for our eventual loss in those playoffs as Cousins will inevitably struggle to find open guys against our final opponent and will take sacks after holding the ball forever, but up until then it will be fine.

Brady who you claim avoids the pressure with his release was under tremendous pressure by the Saints in week 9 and like every QB I have ever seen his result wasn't very good. He couldn't put up a TD and had the following stats.
22 for 38, 209 passing yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, 40.4 passer rating. He was pressured on 46% of his drop backs and took 3 sacks. Certainly not the most incredible pressure but he went backwards as they all do.
It don't get much worse than that. He is the best that ever stepped on a football field. Cousins isn't on the same planet when it comes to talent as Brady. It comes down to pressure. His OL had a bad game and his release did nothing. Too much heat and they all go backwards. I've seen Cousins fall off the cliff under pressure. It happened out in SF when the 49ers were coming hard and he basically was worthless. Rodgers who again is a HOFer and certainly Cousins isn't close to that also didn't have his best game against a D that was bringing pressure. He went home a loser also the following week. Held the ball too long. Couldn't get rid of it. It always works that way in my life watching the game. I don't care who the QB is.
I don't think our current OL which this is about is good enough to make the show. They need to help the team also. Go out there and smash people. Take the game over. And not against a so so team but against a top dog. Can they do that? Sure. But they need 4 out of the 5 to pick their game up a few miles. That certainly could happen but that's expecting alot. And if the OL crumbles against a good team we won't win. That's how it works. It starts at the point and works back.

[StumpHunter]

Brady who you claim avoids the pressure with his release was under tremendous pressure by the Saints in week 9 and like every QB I have ever seen his result wasn't very good.

I "claim" he does that? You disagree with that?

He couldn't put up a TD and had the following stats.
22 for 38, 209 passing yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, 40.4 passer rating. He was pressured on 46% of his drop backs and took 3 sacks. Certainly not the most incredible pressure but he went backwards as they all do.
It don't get much worse than that. He is the best that ever stepped on a football field. Cousins isn't on the same planet when it comes to talent as Brady. It comes down to pressure. His OL had a bad game and his release did nothing. Too much heat and they all go backwards.

You sure do like to point to single game scenarios as evidence of an overall trend. How was Brady the rest of the year? Overall, what does he do to avoid pressure?

I've seen Cousins fall off the cliff under pressure. It happened out in SF when the 49ers were coming hard and he basically was worthless.

Another single game situation as proof of a trend. Fine then, I saw Mahomes get pressured on more of his dropbacks 2 weeks later and carry his team to the SB. Proof that pressure doesn't matter.

Rodgers who again is a HOFer and certainly Cousins isn't close to that also didn't have his best game against a D that was bringing pressure. He went home a loser also the following week. Held the ball too long. Couldn't get rid of it. It always works that way in my life watching the game. I don't care who the QB is.

You are doing it again, this time with a single game where Rodgers was barely pressured. Following your line of thinking this is actually proof that pressure doesn't matter, since Rodgers was only pressured on 19%(8 total) of his dropbacks. Whoops.

I don't think our current OL which this is about is good enough to make the show. They need to help the team also. Go out there and smash people. Take the game over. And not against a so so team but against a top dog. Can they do that? Sure. But they need 4 out of the 5 to pick their game up a few miles. That certainly could happen but that's expecting alot. And if the OL crumbles against a good team we won't win. That's how it works. It starts at the point and works back.

There was no real difference in pressure rate in wins vs losses last year for the Vikings.

Pressure rate wins: 38.7
Pressure rate losses: 38.5

We win if the Dalvin gets going (average ypg 130 in wins, 97 in losses) and if the defense plays well. Oline needs to run block well for Dalvin, and it is built to do that at least. Defense is looking good for the most part. Not good enough for a SB run, but good enough for a solid regular season and the playoffs.

[CharVike]

Brady who you claim avoids the pressure with his release was under tremendous pressure by the Saints in week 9 and like every QB I have ever seen his result wasn't very good.

I "claim" he does that? You disagree with that?

He couldn't put up a TD and had the following stats.
22 for 38, 209 passing yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs, 40.4 passer rating. He was pressured on 46% of his drop backs and took 3 sacks. Certainly not the most incredible pressure but he went backwards as they all do.
It don't get much worse than that. He is the best that ever stepped on a football field. Cousins isn't on the same planet when it comes to talent as Brady. It comes down to pressure. His OL had a bad game and his release did nothing. Too much heat and they all go backwards.

You sure do like to point to single game scenarios as evidence of an overall trend. How was Brady the rest of the year? Overall, what does he do to avoid pressure?

I've seen Cousins fall off the cliff under pressure. It happened out in SF when the 49ers were coming hard and he basically was worthless.

Another single game situation as proof of a trend. Fine then, I saw Mahomes get pressured on more of his dropbacks 2 weeks later and carry his team to the SB. Proof that pressure doesn't matter.

Rodgers who again is a HOFer and certainly Cousins isn't close to that also didn't have his best game against a D that was bringing pressure. He went home a loser also the following week. Held the ball too long. Couldn't get rid of it. It always works that way in my life watching the game. I don't care who the QB is.

You are doing it again, this time with a single game where Rodgers was barely pressured. Following your line of thinking this is actually proof that pressure doesn't matter, since Rodgers was only pressured on 19%(8 total) of his dropbacks. Whoops.

I don't think our current OL which this is about is good enough to make the show. They need to help the team also. Go out there and smash people. Take the game over. And not against a so so team but against a top dog. Can they do that? Sure. But they need 4 out of the 5 to pick their game up a few miles. That certainly could happen but that's expecting alot. And if the OL crumbles against a good team we won't win. That's how it works. It starts at the point and works back.

There was no real difference in pressure rate in wins vs losses last year for the Vikings.

Pressure rate wins: 38.7
Pressure rate losses: 38.5

We win if the Dalvin gets going (average ypg 130 in wins, 97 in losses) and if the defense plays well. Oline needs to run block well for Dalvin, and it is built to do that at least. Defense is looking good for the most part. Not good enough for a SB run, but good enough for a solid regular season and the playoffs.

With Brady it was more than one game but I not digging through it and posting. We have different opinions. Mine is when a QB is under tremendous pressure they don't play as well. As you said I pointed out one game with Rodgers. There's more. That 49er game you claim he was barely pressured. He was sacked 3 times. He lead his team to zero points the 1st half. They were down 27 to 0. The game was over at that point. From ESPN Nick Bosa harassed Aaron Rodgers from the start. You stated Rodgers was barely pressured. You and ESPN stated the complete opposite. I know what it was. The 49ers got after him and put the game out of reach by half. Yes Rodgers threw up some garbage stats in the 4th. The media claims every stat Cousins post is garbage stats. That's why we don't win. Some fans think that. Yet Watson puts up great stats and his team won 4 games. That's not garbage stats. That's not a knock against Rodgers. He's a future HOF QB and I wish they would have traded him. The 49ers D was on a roll and that means getting after the QB. Knock him backwards. They did that to Cousins first and then to Rodgers. They did it to Rodgers during the regular season also. There's a second game for you. Again Cousins ins't close to the player Rodgers is. When the HOF time comes Rodgers will get in and for Cousins it will be he blows don't bring that name up again and he will be out. It always comes down to pressure. Bring it and every QB goes backwards. I don't care who it is. That's why an OL is important. If you can't pass block very well you will get your assed kicked against a good team eventually. Right now our OL doesn't appear to be a top level pass blocking line. Every preview I read of our team says basically the same thing. Their OL pass blocking will cause problems. You claim the opposite.

[StumpHunter]

I "claim" he does that? You disagree with that?


You sure do like to point to single game scenarios as evidence of an overall trend. How was Brady the rest of the year? Overall, what does he do to avoid pressure?


Another single game situation as proof of a trend. Fine then, I saw Mahomes get pressured on more of his dropbacks 2 weeks later and carry his team to the SB. Proof that pressure doesn't matter.

You are doing it again, this time with a single game where Rodgers was barely pressured. Following your line of thinking this is actually proof that pressure doesn't matter, since Rodgers was only pressured on 19%(8 total) of his dropbacks. Whoops.


There was no real difference in pressure rate in wins vs losses last year for the Vikings.

Pressure rate wins: 38.7
Pressure rate losses: 38.5

We win if the Dalvin gets going (average ypg 130 in wins, 97 in losses) and if the defense plays well. Oline needs to run block well for Dalvin, and it is built to do that at least. Defense is looking good for the most part. Not good enough for a SB run, but good enough for a solid regular season and the playoffs.

With Brady it was more than one game but I not digging through it and posting. We have different opinions. Mine is when a QB is under tremendous pressure they don't play as well. As you said I pointed out one game with Rodgers. There's more. That 49er game you claim he was barely pressured. He was sacked 3 times. He lead his team to zero points the 1st half. They were down 27 to 0. The game was over at that point. From ESPN Nick Bosa harassed Aaron Rodgers from the start. You stated Rodgers was barely pressured. You and ESPN stated the complete opposite. I know what it was. The 49ers got after him and put the game out of reach by half. Yes Rodgers threw up some garbage stats in the 4th. The media claims every stat Cousins post is garbage stats. That's why we don't win. Some fans think that. Yet Watson puts up great stats and his team won 4 games. That's not garbage stats. That's not a knock against Rodgers. He's a future HOF QB and I wish they would have traded him. The 49ers D was on a roll and that means getting after the QB. Knock him backwards. They did that to Cousins first and then to Rodgers. They did it to Rodgers during the regular season also. There's a second game for you. Again Cousins ins't close to the player Rodgers is. When the HOF time comes Rodgers will get in and for Cousins it will be he blows don't bring that name up again and he will be out. It always comes down to pressure. Bring it and every QB goes backwards. I don't care who it is. That's why an OL is important. If you can't pass block very well you will get your assed kicked against a good team eventually. Right now our OL doesn't appear to be a top level pass blocking line. Every preview I read of our team says basically the same thing. Their OL pass blocking will cause problems. You claim the opposite.

I am not just claiming Rodgers was barely pressured, I am posting the factual numbers from that game. 34 of 42 dropbacks Rodgers was unpressured. On those 8 dropbacks where he was pressured, his passer rating was 158.3, he average 13.2 YPA and threw 1 TD to 0 Ints.

I think you need a different one-off example cause this one doesn't fit.

[S197]

Zimmer is describing Darrisaw’s injury as “one step forward, two steps back.” Perhaps this is why he fell so far in the 1st.

It’s going to be interesting long term to see how passing on Vera-Tucker or not moving up for Slater pans out. The immediate returns on Darrisaw, Davis and Mond aren’t as they were hoping I’m sure but it’ll be at least a year or two before we see which decision was best.

Took a few extra steps back as he apparently had another groin surgery. Was framed as minor, and not likely to prevent him from being ready by the first game. I had been thinking he was going to end up back under the knife given his progress from the 1st surgery. Hopefully this takes care of the issue.

Yeah sounds like he saw a specialist and had a minor procedure done. Hopefully it's not a Zimmer "tweak".

[VikingsVictorious]

Took a few extra steps back as he apparently had another groin surgery. Was framed as minor, and not likely to prevent him from being ready by the first game. I had been thinking he was going to end up back under the knife given his progress from the 1st surgery. Hopefully this takes care of the issue.

Yeah sounds like he saw a specialist and had a minor procedure done. Hopefully it's not a Zimmer "tweak".

Yep the dreaded T word that no Vikings fan ever wants to hear again.

[chicagopurple]

getting injured in preseason drills...great....
Once again, the GM screws the pooch on the OL and finds us fragile puzzle piece that wont work.

[VikingLord]

getting injured in preseason drills...great....
Once again, the GM screws the pooch on the OL and finds us fragile puzzle piece that wont work.

There is no evidence that Darrisaw is going to be a fragile puzzle piece that won't work.

He was a four year starter in college and IIRC didn't miss a game.

Whatever is going on with him medically could just be bad luck and if he's dealing with recovery from a hernia of some type that can take time, especially if its in the groin area where there is a lot of sensitivity.

[chicagopurple]

I just have Zero confidence in the Viking Org in terms of being able or willing to build a OL that allows for any hope of a super bowl.
The last top tier Ol we had was decades ago. Really, stop an look back and you will be astounded how far back you have to go in Vikes history to see when we had a good OL. Never occurred under this GM.

[Thaumaturgist]

I just have Zero confidence in the Viking Org in terms of being able or willing to build a OL that allows for any hope of a super bowl.
The last top tier Ol we had was decades ago. Really, stop an look back and you will be astounded how far back you have to go in Vikes history to see when we had a good OL. Never occurred under this GM.

I'm right there with you. It's hard to know where all the issues lie, and there may be multiple issues. Scouting? Drafting? Coaching? Scheme? Play Calling? Bad Luck? Vikings? I'm sure I'm missing a few, but it has been way too long since the Vikings have had a decent OL.

[S197]

getting injured in preseason drills...great....
Once again, the GM screws the pooch on the OL and finds us fragile puzzle piece that wont work.

There is no evidence that Darrisaw is going to be a fragile puzzle piece that won't work.

He was a four year starter in college and IIRC didn't miss a game.

Whatever is going on with him medically could just be bad luck and if he's dealing with recovery from a hernia of some type that can take time, especially if its in the groin area where there is a lot of sensitivity.

It does make you wonder if the Vikings either missed something other teams found in their evaluations or they decided to roll the dice. Given that they tried to trade back up for Darrisaw, I'm thinking it wasn't so much a dice roll move. It will be interesting to watch his progress over time, especially compared to Vera-Tucker.