Championship Roster

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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Stump I see you are still replying to my comments and that is fine as what you have to say may be of interest to others. However, I'm not looking at them any more as it's just too irritating to me to read them. So continue to reply when intended for others, but don't bother when intended for me.
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Re: Championship Roster

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:09 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:37 am
I never said a draft pick is a sure thing. But for this year we were in a position to move up and get the top prospect for a position of need. If we were in slot 30 sure the price would be to high. If next years No 1 pick needs to go so what. For the top LT prospect it's a small price.
The price would have been in all likelihood the following. Darrisaw, Mond, Surratt, Davis, Jones and our next years #1. I don't consider it a small price. No other team traded up for Sewell so it appears nobody thought the price for trading up for Sewell was small.
Your guess is as good as anybodies concerning the price. Maybe no other team had nothing at LT so there was no attempt. Who knows how far Darrisaw would have fallen but Rick couldn't wait until round 2 because his pick in round 2 was gone and he couldn't convince the stupid Jets to cough up a 2nd rounder. The draft is over. I would expect trader down Rick has closed the gap between us and the hated Packer squad. Time will tell.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

This team won 7 games last year with one of the worst defenses I’ve seen in my 50+ years as a Vikings fan. And the O-line was absolutely horrible in pass pro, yet we still averaged 27 ppg.

With just the return of Hunter, Kendricks and Barr from injury, our defense would have been better. But now add new faces such as Tomlinson, Pierce, Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, and now Sheldon Richardson (who, lest we forget, had 47 pressures and 5 sacks for the Vikings in 2018) … this defense has the potential to be elite.

Pair an elite defense with 27 ppg, and I see plenty of reason for optimism.
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Re: Championship Roster

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:51 pm This team won 7 games last year with one of the worst defenses I’ve seen in my 50+ years as a Vikings fan. And the O-line was absolutely horrible in pass pro, yet we still averaged 27 ppg.

With just the return of Hunter, Kendricks and Barr from injury, our defense would have been better. But now add new faces such as Tomlinson, Pierce, Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, and now Sheldon Richardson (who, lest we forget, had 47 pressures and 5 sacks for the Vikings in 2018) … this defense has the potential to be elite.

Pair an elite defense with 27 ppg, and I see plenty of reason for optimism.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:51 pm This team won 7 games last year with one of the worst defenses I’ve seen in my 50+ years as a Vikings fan. And the O-line was absolutely horrible in pass pro, yet we still averaged 27 ppg.

With just the return of Hunter, Kendricks and Barr from injury, our defense would have been better. But now add new faces such as Tomlinson, Pierce, Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, and now Sheldon Richardson (who, lest we forget, had 47 pressures and 5 sacks for the Vikings in 2018) … this defense has the potential to be elite.

Pair an elite defense with 27 ppg, and I see plenty of reason for optimism.
Yes thats the other part of it Kapp. I continued to say that last year that losing Hunter, Pierce, Barr and Kendricks for 1/3 of the year is a huge killer to any defense. Getting these guys back plus all the other talent we added this offseason, who wouldnt be excited? I feel like this board is very split right now. Some think they will do great and others think they'll be lucky to win 7 games. I have no reason to believe they arent at worst a playoff team. At best, in the running as one of the better teams in the league.
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Re: Championship Roster

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StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:31 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am
Trader Down Rick made by far the best trade in the draft moving back from 14-23 getting Darrisaw, Mond and Davis instead of just Darrisaw. You are so blinded by your "you can't trade down" philosophy.
Best trade of the draft goes to the NYG or the Chicago Bears. NYG got a high 1st next year if Fields busts, Chicago got a franchise QB for relatively little if he doesn't.

Second definitely goes to the Vikings though.
There is a third outcome to the NYG-Bears trade though - Fields turns into what the odds say he is most likely to turn into which is neither a franchise QB nor a bust, but simply a flawed NFL starter. In that case neither the Giants nor the Bears benefit all that much from the trade.
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Re: Championship Roster

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:24 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:51 pm This team won 7 games last year with one of the worst defenses I’ve seen in my 50+ years as a Vikings fan. And the O-line was absolutely horrible in pass pro, yet we still averaged 27 ppg.

With just the return of Hunter, Kendricks and Barr from injury, our defense would have been better. But now add new faces such as Tomlinson, Pierce, Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, and now Sheldon Richardson (who, lest we forget, had 47 pressures and 5 sacks for the Vikings in 2018) … this defense has the potential to be elite.

Pair an elite defense with 27 ppg, and I see plenty of reason for optimism.
Yes thats the other part of it Kapp. I continued to say that last year that losing Hunter, Pierce, Barr and Kendricks for 1/3 of the year is a huge killer to any defense. Getting these guys back plus all the other talent we added this offseason, who wouldnt be excited? I feel like this board is very split right now. Some think they will do great and others think they'll be lucky to win 7 games. I have no reason to believe they arent at worst a playoff team. At best, in the running as one of the better teams in the league.
Whereas in the past, most of the optimists place their hope in the emergence of young, promising potential, this year it feels like the hope is placed in older veterans being able to maintain. If Patrick Peterson is as done as many in AZ think, if Harrison Smith's decline last year was for real, the secondary is suddenly in a more precarious situation. If Pierce is out of shape, if Danielle's injury is significant, the D Line is not as dominant or deep as it first appeared. The game is so overwhelmingly about QBs these days that the Cousins question also remains polarizing. Can he elevate a team or is he just a guy? For most, the question probably comes down to whether this team will be good enough to put Cousins in a position to truly thrive, and rise above some of his limitations.

The OL is a major question that we really won't have answered until the games begin. The other major question is just how good the defense can be with this infusion of talent and a possible shift in scheme.
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Re: Championship Roster

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:24 pm Some think they will do great and others think they'll be lucky to win 7 games. I have no reason to believe they arent at worst a playoff team. At best, in the running as one of the better teams in the league.
Its hard for me to understand the pessimistic view.

The three things that hurt the team most last year have been addressed. Not hopefully addressed, but addressed. Well, OL might still be characterized as hopeful, but the other two are actually addressed.

Even so, its hard to believe the OL could be worse than it was last year. Even if it remains the same, we're still talking about an offense that finished 4th overall and showed it can put up points. So you take the objective defensive improvements and couple them with the belief that the offense is no better and even the most pessimistic view still has to be that the team overall improves notably.

Maybe the pessimism comes from folks who want the Vikings to be a clear Superbowl contender. If so, I get that perspective. Clear Superbowl contenders don't have significant question marks heading into a season, and the Viking OL is a significant question mark.

Still, very few teams are clear Superbowl contenders in any given year, and all things considered, I'd rather the Vikings NOT be a clear contender and surprise to the upside than be a clear contender and disappoint.
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Re: Championship Roster

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:51 pm This team won 7 games last year with one of the worst defenses I’ve seen in my 50+ years as a Vikings fan. And the O-line was absolutely horrible in pass pro, yet we still averaged 27 ppg.

With just the return of Hunter, Kendricks and Barr from injury, our defense would have been better. But now add new faces such as Tomlinson, Pierce, Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, and now Sheldon Richardson (who, lest we forget, had 47 pressures and 5 sacks for the Vikings in 2018) … this defense has the potential to be elite.

Pair an elite defense with 27 ppg, and I see plenty of reason for optimism.
That is an excellent post. I completely agree. I guess I just have reservations about 4 things:

The oline working out.

Cousins at crunch time.

A defensive end opposite Hunter emerging.

Hunter being the Hunter of old.
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Re: Championship Roster

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fiestavike wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:41 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:24 pm

Yes thats the other part of it Kapp. I continued to say that last year that losing Hunter, Pierce, Barr and Kendricks for 1/3 of the year is a huge killer to any defense. Getting these guys back plus all the other talent we added this offseason, who wouldnt be excited? I feel like this board is very split right now. Some think they will do great and others think they'll be lucky to win 7 games. I have no reason to believe they arent at worst a playoff team. At best, in the running as one of the better teams in the league.
Whereas in the past, most of the optimists place their hope in the emergence of young, promising potential, this year it feels like the hope is placed in older veterans being able to maintain. If Patrick Peterson is as done as many in AZ think, if Harrison Smith's decline last year was for real, the secondary is suddenly in a more precarious situation. If Pierce is out of shape, if Danielle's injury is significant, the D Line is not as dominant or deep as it first appeared. The game is so overwhelmingly about QBs these days that the Cousins question also remains polarizing. Can he elevate a team or is he just a guy? For most, the question probably comes down to whether this team will be good enough to put Cousins in a position to truly thrive, and rise above some of his limitations.

The OL is a major question that we really won't have answered until the games begin. The other major question is just how good the defense can be with this infusion of talent and a possible shift in scheme.
The secondary is actually the area I feel most confident about. I think Zimmer will play a lot of zone and they will thrive. They have a lot of experience and collective football IQ that will pay dividends if the pass did works.
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Re: Championship Roster

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Maelstrom88 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:40 pm I guess I just have reservations about 4 things:

The oline working out.

Cousins at crunch time.

A defensive end opposite Hunter emerging.

Hunter being the Hunter of old.
I'll try to alleviate your concerns.

- OL can't be worse than it was last year, and there is good reason to expect it to be better, especially as the season wears on. You have 3 young vets at RT, G and C, 2 of whom should be entering the primes of their careers at RT and C. You have a 1st round rookie LT who started 4 years in college and got better every year, and a 3rd round G who also started 4 years in college and who many had rated as a late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder heading into the draft. There is plenty of highly drafted talent on the Vikings OL now.

- Cousins at crunch time is less important if the rest of the team around him is better. Teams need individual players to be heroes when the rest of the team isn't good overall. Make the rest of the team better overall, you need fewer individual heroes. Cousins can make the throws and the plays to win. If the rest of the team is better, he hopefully won't be put in positions where he has to bear the burden at crunch time because there will be fewer crunch times.

- Its true the Vikings don't have an established DE opposite Hunter, but they do have a pool of players who could emerge as viable pass rushers and overall players. Some of them flashed last year (Wonnum and Holmes), so who knows? As with the OL, though, it's not like it could get worse. At worst, the level of play at the other DE spot doesn't improve, but at best, the Vikings get increased production out of that spot.

- Zimmer said Hunter is healthy and ready to go. While Zimmer might be willing to whitewash things a bit, those are encouraging words.

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Re: Championship Roster

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:43 am
808vikingsfan wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:01 pm I'll say this, this is probably the best roster Cousins has had in his career. If he doesn't lead this team deep into the playoffs, he'll never do it. But that's what we've been saying since he's got here (except 2020).

I'm still predicting a 7 to 9 win season. I would love to be proven wrong.
We won 6 of our last 10 last year with a non-existent defense. Our defense should be quite good this year. Why such low expectations? Are you guarding against disappointment?
Let's not dismiss the first part of the season. The offense was a big reason for the 1-5 start. And the 6 wins to run out the season? 4 were against defenses just as bad or worse than the Vikings. I wouldn't say the D was non existent. They helped win a bunch of games last year including the win in GB.

I do believe the defense will be much better than last year esp against the run, if they can stay healthy . DE and LB seem a bit thin.
However, the Vikings were a top 10 defense in 2018 and 2019 yet they still were just an average team. What makes anyone think they'll do better? I just don't see any significant change since 2018. Yes, a lot has to do with Cousins. Nice stats but I see him as a crutch to take the next step. Maybe the OL will improve, so now his checkdowns on 3rd and 6 will take 4 seconds instead of 2.88.

I hope they do well this year, I just don't see it unless Cook can have an even better season. And making the playoffs is not really a good measurement since almost half of the league will make the playoffs now.
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Re: Championship Roster

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808vikingsfan wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:53 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:43 am
We won 6 of our last 10 last year with a non-existent defense. Our defense should be quite good this year. Why such low expectations? Are you guarding against disappointment?
Let's not dismiss the first part of the season. The offense was a big reason for the 1-5 start. And the 6 wins to run out the season? 4 were against defenses just as bad or worse than the Vikings. I wouldn't say the D was non existent. They helped win a bunch of games last year including the win in GB.

I do believe the defense will be much better than last year esp against the run, if they can stay healthy . DE and LB seem a bit thin.
However, the Vikings were a top 10 defense in 2018 and 2019 yet they still were just an average team. What makes anyone think they'll do better? I just don't see any significant change since 2018. Yes, a lot has to do with Cousins. Nice stats but I see him as a crutch to take the next step. Maybe the OL will improve, so now his checkdowns on 3rd and 6 will take 4 seconds instead of 2.88.

I hope they do well this year, I just don't see it unless Cook can have an even better season. And making the playoffs is not really a good measurement since almost half of the league will make the playoffs now.
Making the playoffs means you're OK to Good. Winning in the playoffs means you're good to great. I'm expecting us to do some winning in the playoffs with a good shot at winning it all. The Offense was great last year and now the Defense will be too.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Maelstrom88 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:40 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:51 pm This team won 7 games last year with one of the worst defenses I’ve seen in my 50+ years as a Vikings fan. And the O-line was absolutely horrible in pass pro, yet we still averaged 27 ppg.

With just the return of Hunter, Kendricks and Barr from injury, our defense would have been better. But now add new faces such as Tomlinson, Pierce, Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, and now Sheldon Richardson (who, lest we forget, had 47 pressures and 5 sacks for the Vikings in 2018) … this defense has the potential to be elite.

Pair an elite defense with 27 ppg, and I see plenty of reason for optimism.
That is an excellent post. I completely agree. I guess I just have reservations about 4 things:

The oline working out.

Cousins at crunch time.

A defensive end opposite Hunter emerging.

Hunter being the Hunter of old.
All legitimate concerns. That’s why I’m not predicting anything like a division title or Super Bowl contention. I’m just seeing reason for optimism.

Last year was hard to bear. Somebody said that we can’t overlook the 1-5 start, and I totally agree. At one point early last season, I stated that we were the worst team in the NFL. That turned out to be an overreaction, but there’s no arguing the fact that we were seriously bad. And we were bad because we simply didn’t have the personnel to compete on defense. Zimmer eventually adjusted and started playing a lot of 3-deep zone, but that was only triage. In a pass-happy league, you can’t win if you can’t get stops. Give up 30 ppg, and you’re going to lose a lot.

Zimmer found out the hard way that scheme, no matter how brilliant, can’t overcome a lack of personnel. Where I’m optimistic is that the Vikings are not only taking the lack of personnel seriously, they’re also addressing depth. That helps make us somewhat less vulnerable to injury. Yes, Hunter needs to be his old self. Yes, the other DE needs to provide some help. But this defense will be significantly improved. Of that, I have no doubt.

Where I’m worried is that the O-line doesn’t have such depth. Even if the rookies work out and Bradbury improves, what happens when somebody gets injured?

If we can avoid the injury bug along the O-line, I see no reason we can’t compete for the division.
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Re: Championship Roster

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808vikingsfan wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:53 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:43 am
We won 6 of our last 10 last year with a non-existent defense. Our defense should be quite good this year. Why such low expectations? Are you guarding against disappointment?
Let's not dismiss the first part of the season. The offense was a big reason for the 1-5 start. And the 6 wins to run out the season? 4 were against defenses just as bad or worse than the Vikings. I wouldn't say the D was non existent. They helped win a bunch of games last year including the win in GB.

I do believe the defense will be much better than last year esp against the run, if they can stay healthy . DE and LB seem a bit thin.
However, the Vikings were a top 10 defense in 2018 and 2019 yet they still were just an average team. What makes anyone think they'll do better? I just don't see any significant change since 2018. Yes, a lot has to do with Cousins. Nice stats but I see him as a crutch to take the next step. Maybe the OL will improve, so now his checkdowns on 3rd and 6 will take 4 seconds instead of 2.88.

I hope they do well this year, I just don't see it unless Cook can have an even better season. And making the playoffs is not really a good measurement since almost half of the league will make the playoffs now.
That 2019 defense had Hunter and Griffen starting at defense end. That's a top of the line combo. Scary. Now it's Hunter and nothing. Not so scary. Big difference. 2019 OL was bad but now it's worse. Yes some new bodies but that could also mean same or worse result especially with no NFL snaps under their belt. Is there still a wonder why we aren't mentioned as a Super Bowl contender? And yes Cousins needs more help than the HOF QBs he's contending against. Jimmy G did, Goff did, Ryan did ect....also needed more help than HOF QBs and there teams provided it.
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